I have mine copy both the SOTW map and any corresponding map in Kingfisher. We use the maps included in the SOTW-AG for this.

I would doubt it. We did BJU Pre-Algebra last year. It starts right away with variables, and isolating variables on one side of an equation. It has very advanced geometry and statistics as well. It was *hard.* Jacobs Algebra has really been a breeze after BJU Pre-Algebra. Since R&S-8 would be considered the last R&S Math a student would take before Algebra, I don't think R&S-7 would be equivalent to any pre-Algebra course.

I have tried to do both Classical Composition and Wordsmith (at different times! LOL) along with R&S Grammar, but never got more than a couple of weeks into it before we went back to straight R&S. My ds likes having *one* book. And, because I re-assign the writing assignments in history (and some extent in science), he gets extra practice that way. I'm really not well-read enough to have my own opinion! I'm just trusting SWB when she says that R&S is all a middle schooler needs for writing instruction.

Disclaimer: I use R&S, and I've never seen this IRL. But if my kids were younger, or if I was just beginning, I would seriously look at this: http://www.grammarmadeeasy.com/ Best wishes!

I think you might be just as well off looking at Analytical Grammar along with a separate writing program. AG is recommended for 9th and 10th grade in WTM. If you use R&S-6, the grammar portion will be ok, but the writing will be below grade level expectations. We are completing R&S-8 this year, and that's really all I've used. But, I'm sure someone on the high school board could point you toward a really good independent writing program.

Doesn't it seem like a step backward to do AG after R&S? Or, do you just use the Review books? (I'm not being snarky, promise! I just can't imagine going back to subject/verb after R&S-8.)

Yes, I know it's not *really* harder!!! But, almost everything grammar-wise is review in the 8th grade book (so far!), and my ds is constantly haranging the book with, "Why didn't you just explain it like that last year?!" Seriously. My plan of action for getting through R&S-7 was to not worry about complete mastery the first time something was introduced (such as Adverb clauses). BUT, I would take the time to re-teach the concept each time it came up in either the Oral or Written Reviews. I made charts of pronouns and verb tenses, and "cheat sheets" for dependent clauses, and let ds use these while doing the exercises. I added the list of subordinating conjunctions to his Latin chants. *Anything* to make it easier, though it was admittedly a hard year! The writing, OTOH, is very intense in R&S-8. We have covered a 5-paragraph essay (though it wasn't really labeled as such), and my ds is working on his first "really long" paper now (about 15-16 paragraphs). I'm very glad we persevered and we're getting through these type of assignments now. (though, I did skip the last chapter of R&S-7; then, we did the last chapter of R&S-8 at the beginning of this school year).

I spent quite a while the other day trying every search term I could think of to find the new edition with no luck! Just pre-ordered, thanks to you!

Thanks!

Something I could use with both a 6th grader and a 9th grader? Thanks!

My boys were 10 and 8 when I read it to them, and, no, I didn't have a problem with it at all - because I was reading it with them, and we could use that to discuss real life. At the time, we had just started homeschooling. One big reason was how ostracized my oldest had been in public school. So, the book was very timely. There is a verse in the Bible somewhere (Psalms/Proverbs??) that "when my father and mother desert me, the Lord will lift me up." I have tried for many years to teach my children that no matter hard I try to be a good parent, I *am* going to fail them. And, sometimes, even though I *haven't* failed them, they will feel alone. The question is, to whom will they turn when that time inevitably comes? Obviously, when Despereaux is in the dark of the dungeon, deserted by everyone, he has a choice to make. A choice for good or for evil. Will he let the circumstances of his life, the unfairness he has suffered, the wickedness of those around him, turn him into a bitter person, desperate for revenge? Or, will he search for a place of light and goodness? BTW, the character Chiascuro (sure I botched the spelling) is a very interesting extra-book research venture for mom and maybe your oldest. Hope you enjoy it as much as we did!

I searched through 5 pages of "Susan Wise Bauer" after searching all the "Well Trained Mind" pages, and never saw it! Today the spine on my old copy just completely broke (all the Logic Stage Lit pages have been "loose-leaf" for quite some time!), I think it's about time I get about a new one. Thanks!

I guess I wonder why they offer the Traditional if the New is the preferred method? That just seems like one more choice I have to make in partial (and sometimes total!) ignorance. :glare: Thanks for posting!

Is one better than the other for an average kid who isn't stellar at math, though he certainly doesn't struggle with it? ETA: It is obvious that the books are very different from the TOC that are listed on the CD website. I just can't imagine why - tho' Mr. Moseley did mention in the FAQ video that the approach to teaching Math has changed significantly in the last 15 years. I guess those "significant changes" show up in the "New" version? Thanks! Rhonda

It is published by Educators Publishing Service (EPS). http://www.epsbooks.com/ I'm not sure if they provide a list of words on their website or not...

We are doing VfCR-A (meaning, my 8th grader and I!). I do remember I didn't like the Teacher Guide for the 5th grade book - I don't remember it having the same caliber of activities, but it has been a long time! Anyway, we back-tracked to Lesson 5 and are doing that right now. All these ideas are found in the Teacher Guide for that lesson: I started out with an "introduction" to Lessons 5 and 6. "More or Less" and we talked about the Latin quote at the beginning of Lesson 5, "Satis eloquentiae...." He was to restate that in his own words and give examples (there are sample answers in the guide). Then we "deduced" the meaning of "satis" from the quote (Enough) and made a flashcard for that. And, we discussed the Familiar words in the Student Text. (But, we didn't *use* the Student Text, I had just made a note in the Teacher Guide.) Then, there were activities in the guide to preview the roots "micro" and "min". I wrote the familiar words on the whiteboard for "micro" and there was a question for each one in the TG that helped bring out the meaning of "micro". And, then we made a flashcard for that. Then, we briefly looked at the keywords to see how the root fit in those words. Then, I wrote, the familiar words for "min", and again, each one had a question to bring out the meaning of MIN, and we made a flashcard for that. (I actually added the flashcards - the TG doesn't mention them) Oh, and I did use a different color for the root than for the rest of the word. I'm pretty sure I picked that up from the introduction in the TG. Then, for "minute" there were rhyming riddles: What is a small apple? a minute fruit What is a small underground part of a plant? a minute root (there were more) And that was all for the first day. And, we didn't have to get out the Student book. The second day, we did the roots TEN and PLE. And, there weren't exercises in the TG for these. But, I have a Merriam Webster vocabulary book that has 4-5 words for selected roots, and has some good info especially about the context in which you usually see the word. So, we read some of that and discussed the keywords. (and made flashcards just for the roots) Yeah, the day I had to come up with the lesson was boring ;). The third day there were two activities from the TG. The first was for the keywords that were nouns. I put all those words on the board (implement, minutia, microbe, microcosm, and expletive) and then there were questions that helped him remember the words, and we created a 1 or 2-word definition (and a flashcard). For example: Where might you find implements for cooking? For building a house? What are those implements? (There are sample answer in the TG, and from that, we used "tool" as our definition.) For the second activity, I wrote the keywords that were adjectives and verbs, along with a one-word definition that was provided. He copied those onto flashcards. There were sentences (given) that contained a keyword, and he had to re-state the sentence using the one-word definition. Ex: A crumb is a miniscule part of a cake. (restatement: A crumb is a tiny part of a cake.) I know, it's not just a barrel-full-of-monkeys fun!!!! But, throughout all this, we have barely LOOKED at the student book. I think the student book is visually overwhelming to him. And, these are making the words more accessible - not so "out there" - words that no one ever uses. Anyway, the next day, there is a "Key Word Activity" Worksheet to copy from the TG. It is matching the keywords to the definitions and, given a short phrase, to write the keyword that is brought to mind. Ex: satiates = fills you up; it can make you sick = microbe Then, after doing all that, he'll do the activities in the student book. They are considerably harder than the TG activities, so I'll let him use the book; but those 1-2 word definitions are now *firmly* entrenched. Before, he just had some vague idea and was hoping to figure out the meaning in context. BTW, the even lessons are shorter, to allow time for the tests. And there are review exercises in the TG to help you review for the test. After lesson 6, for example, you display several keywords in random order, and have dc form pairs of antonyms (macrocosm/microcosm, satiate/starve, etc.). Other words are reviewed by "words that can be depicted in drawings" (draw a picture) and "words that can't" (write a descriptive phrase). hth!

Michelle, What would you choose for high school review, then? We'll finish R&S-8 this year, and I've been considering using ABeka for high school because it seems like it would be easier to just "do a few" as review. (And, SWB says you can use the writing exercises and not need an additional writing program.)

I broke down and bought the Teacher Guide, and have found it invaluable. It has "fun" ways to introduce the roots, and then helps you work with dc to come up with & drill 1-2 word definitions for each Keyword. (Those are now what we're using for our flashcards, and that in itself has been a big help.) The Guide also has an additional worksheet for each lesson that is pretty basic, but it helps me know that at least we're not wasting our time not really learning the words. So far, all the activities I've seen have needed teacher-student interaction. It *does* turn Vocabulary into a teacher-intensive subject, but it only takes about 10 minutes each day. I just felt like my ds (who hates flashcards!) wasn't really learning anything doing it the WTM way. So, it really boils down to your dc and how he/she learns best, and if you have the time available to devote to the Teacher Guide Activities. If flashcards work, or there's just no time for activities, then the Teacher's Guide won't help.

I would laugh, but I realized this morning that we *still* only got about 3/4ths of a school day done yesterday - even though my mom came and picked up my 3yo dd Sunday and is keeping her this week. Guess that means the problem is really *ME!*

We started hs'ing mid-5th grade with my oldest. I discovered WTM over that Christmas, and since I'd already sprang for the complete 5th grade set from Abeka, we had very little left to just up and do something new. But, we did use SOTW-1, the old Kingfisher (I didn't know it was OOP when I bought it!), the literature list from WTM and the library. I had a 2nd grader, and we usually read one SOTW "story" out loud, my 5th grader would write narrations (just a paragraph), and occasionally outline. But, mostly, we read TONS of picture books from the library - gathered either from the Activity Guide or just what came up at the library. We covered either up through or up to Julius Caesar, I think. (Admission: we dropped Science for some time that year. Oh, well.) I know we had *some* of the book to finish up the next year, and I decided to re-read the whole thing. I was very surprised how much they remembered - esp. the oldest - because we really did absolutely no hands-on type stuff at all - mostly we just read, and discussed. (And, btw, they *still* remember it even 3 years later!) I don't know what TOG uses, but maybe if you free yourself up to just "get exposed" to Ancient history rather than feeling you have to learn *everything* *Now!*, then you can always start digging in deeper next year with TOG Year 2. Best wishes!

Thanks, Luann. The college board is a very helpful site! (And, yes, our local state university does take CLEP, though I didn't see that on their website - good to know!)

Thanks, Lynne! That is very encouraging!

Do you use CLEP Study Guides to, well..."guide" your choices of what to study and when? Something like a spine? I had never heard of CLEP before getting on this board (maybe they don't do them in Georgia?). I'll have to google...(tomorrow!)

Same here. Jumpers and even cotton skirts were (believe it or not) somewhat fashionable in the late 80's. (at least in the South!) Well, at my Southern Baptist-affiliated college, anyway! Seriously, I loved my denim nursing jumper from MotherWear. Though, that would have been '95, and pushing it "fashion-wise". (Actually, I still have two fleece-y outfits from MotherWear's '95 catalog that I will never part with -even tho' I had a hysterectomy last year! LOL)

I had forgotten you were using LLfLoTR. I guess I always imagine you guys bundled up with hot chocolate and blankets and doing that one "just for fun"! =) Thanks, Lori. I'm really intrigued by the idea of considering "Lit" as a separate entity from Great Books/History at least during Ancients and Middle Ages. I'll be chewing on this awhile...