A little off-topic, but can you start IEW w/ a 9th grader? Or, is it too late? Meaning: We are finishing R&S-8 this year, so I don't want to go back to how to write a paragraph, I want to keep writing essays. And, do the theme-based lesson books (we'll do Ancients next year) work across the grade levels? IOW, could both my 6th grader and my 9th grader would use the same book? Thanks!

I'm not there yet, but Stacey in LA had a dd that CLEP'd Biology after using both Apologia biologies. Maybe you could search under her handle for some more info. hth, Rhonda

Thanks for the link! I have to admit, I don't think we even wrote up our labs in high school (nor did we have science books). Ah, the benefits of public school in Georgia - LOL!

Thanks, Sharon. That pretty much is what I was hoping to hear! LOL I really should just *finish* this year before planning next year~

though, he loves the "chattiness" of the text itself. He feels like the Lab Reports are busy work, so I've been letting him out of some of those already. Then, this week, his (5th gr) younger brother's experiment is to make an electroscope...and, we still have the electroscope my older ds made last week (in Apologia) sitting in the closet. So, my older ds feels...idk...like the Apologia labs are babyish? So, my question is, are the experiments going to get better in Apologia Biology? Or, should I start looking at some other alternatives? Or, even if the labs are boring, is it worth it to stay with Apologia if mom never had Biology at all? (yes, it was "required", but my math grades were good, so they let me skip it.). Thanks for all your help!

I chose Introductory Logic because it had "white space". It looked less intimidating. And, at first glance it seemed more understandable. However, what we found was that there wasn't enough practice to master the concepts. So, even though for that lesson, my ds might understand the concept well enough to do well on the exercises, later he (and I!) would have to go back and re-learn it all over again. We quit about half-way through. (school was interrupted by surgury, and when we got back to it, we had forgotten just about everything!) After reading the sample chapter available at Memoria Press, I *so* wish I had chosen that instead. It reads much more like a teacher explaining, rather than just a list of things to memorize. fwiw, we did use the DVD's, and they are understandable. It's just the way the info is presented doesn't make it very memorable. hth

Thank you for making this available! rhonda beeee @ gmail dot com

We used it last year (but not the new edition). You know, I guess you could use it as easily as someone who is a "creationist" can use a secular text. The secular text assumes evolution through-out, so there are loaded statements throughout, even in discussing things that have nothing to do with evolution per se. It is (I think) a *little* better in the Wile text. He will flat out tell you what the two sides believe, the evidence for both, and the problems with both. You will encounter these types of arguments in geology and life processes mostly. There was only one entire section that was a mini-sermon that I remember. I do think Wile has tried to be fair to the other side, but (just as it is obvious that the secular text assumes evolution) it is obvious what he believes to be true. So, long story short, you will really have to see for yourself. But, I would skim through the chapters on soil layers and fossil formation - that should give you a good idea. I can't say where in the bio section his mini-sermon was. We had already studied the human body the year before, so ds mostly read that on his own. hth a bit

I hope this doesn't sound like an attack - it's not meant to be. But, wasn't it you that had the rant about standardized testing? I am personally struggling through these questions myself as I try to map out 9th grade and beyond. I have a very average kid, whose talents really lie in being a "people person". I guess that means one day he might excell in psychology??? But, it doesn't really help in high school or the typical AP's or even the SAT. Even so, I agree with outtamyshell that there is something alluring about not worrying about "proving" ourselves with numerous AP's or SAT-2's and simply having a rich, student-led high school experience. Yes, he will take the SAT and any required SAT-2's, but as the day approaches when a decision MUST be made, I am leaning more and more to not worrying about jumping through other people's hoops. We will prepare, but not be obsessive about it, if that makes sense.

Oh, the other "big thing" she discussed was how to do the Junior and Senior Projects, which kind of ties in to specialization. She used the online game "World of Warcraft" to show how *any* subject that captivates your child can be studied (Oh, I can't think of the exact word she used...) academically (I think). Basically, by asking questions about how it began, what paved the way for it, why it became important, what purpose it served to society,etc, you are studying American culture in depth, and hopefully the dc is beginning to understand why "it" is important to him as well. She didn't say this, but I came away with the impression that it will help jump-start dc into really examining what "life is all about" and where he fits into the grand scheme of things. I do think ds is concerned that one of his favorite past-times (gaming online) is now fodder for school work - LOLOLOL!

Hey, shouldn't you have a blog? You know, where you share this priceless info for free? (Or, at least a Lulu book?) ;)

Actually, when I first listened to her, I was *so* discouraged. (LOL - that always seems to happen. Then, I re-read or re-listen, and I realize, Wow, her way is actually so much easier than I thought!) But, she spent at least 30-40 minutes talking about the *MINIMUM* requirements for "graduation", and then the *MINIMUM* requirements for college entrance. She really encouraged people to first be sure the minimums are being covered (not the whole WTM-shebang!, but the true minimums). Then, go and fill in the "electives" with what the student wants, and really allow them to develop an expertise. (And, even to log your hours, and when you get to 140 actual hours, the class is done, it's a wrap, get a grade and go on to the next thing. No beating yourself up because you didn't cover everything, you know?) So, realistically, there's no way I can cover all I want. I've *got* to figure out what direction we're going to go in, and then slim. things. down. so that he can have time to practice for the youth worship band, volunteer at the local food bank, etc. and get some practical experience ministering to people. The other thing that really spoke to me today (and which I'm still not sure how to make happen) is to rely on tutors, online classes, or correspondence classes for anything that isn't the teacher's "passion". I guess my doubt is it seems like I'm not really qualified to have a "passion" for anything. (I'm a piano performance/music ed major.) I am still digesting this... She spent most of the rest of the time focusing on Rhetoric and it's importance. The basic plan she presented is the one that's on her blog (actually, there is more info here than on my CD): http://www.susanwisebauer.com/blog/the-raving-writer/using-the-exercises-of-classical-rhetoric-in-high-school/#comments But, she did say to use The Rulebook of Arguments book (Weston) in 9th before starting the Composition in the Classical Tradition. I'm sure she'll go into more detail at the conference in VA than she did in my CD. I know there was something else, but the two biggies are specialization and rhetoric. If you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them (anytime - just pm me). Thanks again for your help!

That's it!!! Thanks a million! On a more personal note: I drove to my mother's today and so I took the time to re-listen to the high school seminar SWB did in Atlanta this summer. Anyway, she mentioned over and over again that if you want your dc to specialize (the big advantage to homeschooling for high school), *something* has to fall off the schedule. So...I am rethinking things, trying to be realistic about how much I've been planning (in my head, not on paper, yet). This will help *so much*; it is so freeing to understand that SWB herself is tweaking WTM to fit her kids, you know? I am so excited for you to get to hear her live! I know I can't go (barring a miracle), so please take lots of notes!

Remember, she had posted on her blog what her routine was with HOAW? I had the link on my old computer, but it crashed, and now I'm link-less. :crying: I tried searching her blog, but I'm not seeing it. If you can help, I really appreciate it!

I was going to suggest Mary Daly's book to OP as well. I have it here, and even tho' I don't use it (because R&S covers diagramming so thoroughly), I can't sell it because it's just so darn cute!!!! I love just looking at it, and wishing I *could* use it! =)

Obviously, you haven't read the book. Just had to laugh as last night I read a footnote in HOAW which Susan ended by saying (and I *loosely* quote): "I'm including this here so that I don't get (even more) letters telling me I obviously haven't read my Bible." HA! I admit I was one of the people who thought SWB was a bit wack-o when she said Abram was a moon-god worshipper, and then - there it was plain as day as I was reading my Bible one day. Oops! Keep up the good work, SWB!!!

Every dc is different. Mine are average, so that is where I'm coming from btw. R&S-5 has been pretty much a review of grammar from 4, but the writing is definitely a big step up from 4. R&S-6 was not easy, nor was it tear-inducingly difficult. Both the grammar and writing were a definite step up from 5, as expected. (And, more grammar than I ever had in school.) But, just looking at R&S-7 the summer before we tackled that almost brought on a panic attack for this mom! ;) It is *hard*. And, it moves very quickly through its review of R&S-6. This is where I think you might wish that you had just kept your child on grade level (unless your dc is very advanced, obviously). (I know you must be dying to know - LOL!: but R&S-8 is very similar to 5. The grammar is mostly review, but the writing is a huge step up. We are doing 5-page essays, and a huge research paper.)

I don't know anything about Shurley, but if Shurley 4 is designed for 4th grade, then I think you'll be fine starting your kids on grade level. Even if you had done absolutely NO grammar, you could probably start R&S on grade level up to grade 5 or 6. hth!

My older started hs'ing in 5th grade, and we did SOTW-1. He is now in 8th grade, and we are finishing up SOTW-4 this year (golly! has it really passed so quickly? wow-zers!) I think my first post on the board was about "Wouldn't a book designed for a first grader be too...dumb?...for a 5th grader?" and I was inundated with how wonderful the series is, and how so many MOMS learn so much from it. I can say without any regrets that I am so glad we took their advice. SOTW has been the high-light of our homeschool. Best wishes!

Best wishes!

I found last year that the Wordsmith series teaches the same things as R&S, and received a very good review from SWB here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/wordsmith.html fwiw, I kept doing R&S (for both grammar and writing) because my ds liked having just *one* book. (Two books = more work to him?) Both R&S and Wordsmith are really good, but for your purposes, it might be nice to have Wordsmith's pre-planned schedule. Best wishes!

Actually, the "5th" grade was a misprint. The title of the book was the 6th grade book, and the correction is on the WTM website here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/updates.php hth!

Oh, Janice! I wonder if this isn't prime burn-out time of year? I just recently had to listen to a long, impossible to interrupt diatribe about how I need to learn to let go, my dc will be ok in high school, it will have so many more opportunities, what I've done has been good, but I've done too much already. And, unfortunately, I don't have a "lucky" kid. I just have an average kid. It's not like hs'ing for high school even has the hint of a shadow of hope that this child will become an intellectual, hard-working "lucky" person. Yes, he'll be the sensitive, kind-hearted, very people-attuned person he has always been; but he will honestly be that person whether we do school here or anywhere else. And, no matter *where* he is, those positive qualities (his area of "giftedness" if you will) really don't amount to much academically, so why *should* I try so hard? But, like you I bet, I have to be true to me...true to him...true to the family my dh and I have created (the oasis of peace in a hostile world, iykwim). True to the small still voice I am sure is leading me. So, I trust God and just "do it" - whatever the "it" is that needs to be done. Ignore the rest. Yes I live in a cocoon sometimes! And I, too, am very thankful for you and all the friends I have found here. I carry you all with me as I go through-out my homeschool day, and just knowing that you all are walking on the journey with me is *very* encouraging!

:iagree::iagree::iagree: That is why we only read *part* of the Tolkien version. My ds had just had his first growth spurt and hormones were raging! (mine, too, which didn't help ;) - LOL) But, seriously, the lady of the castle comes on to Gawain *very* strongly - something my ds just did NOT need to be reading in 6th grade. Hopefully, we'll revisit it 10th grade.

ISBN 0-345-27760-0 Author: J.R.R. Tolkien It is actually "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" and "Pearl" and "Sir Orfeo": http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Pearl-Orfeo/dp/0345277600/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236798153&sr=1-3 We read part of this out loud, then switched to a version by Michael Morpurgo: http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Michael-Morpurgo/dp/B000OZ28L0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236798218&sr=1-1 But this is a version that was recently recommended on the board (Tho' I haven't seen it - we'll be redoing Medieval next year!): http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Simon-Armitage/dp/0393334155/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1UVIOU2X64WA8&colid=2QYAUD5V3URTV Maybe something there will help!