:001_smile:

Thanks, Leanna!

Oh, I have always *personally* loved Scarlett since I read GWTW sometime around 8th grade. (Probably didn't quite get it all, but loved her. Growing up in the South probably helped - LOL!) I am, frankly, a Melanie. But, secretly I would love to have some of Scarlett's spunk and dash! What I don't like is that this incredible strength is reduced to nothing where Ashley is involved. I guess there is some of this in Little Women - the reality of the time that women's roles were so narrowly defined. That a woman's worth is determined solely by who her husband is (or, who it is that is feeding her ego). Again, maybe this is a current distortion from the movie that isn't in the book, IDK. It just seems so sad that such a strong woman could be so rattled by one man! And, really and truly, I did use Scarlett as my counter-example as a teenager whose heart was broken (I mean really, really broken!). I knew I certainly didn't want to end up like her, so I chose to force myself to move on - and now I have the most wonderful DH who really truly loves me. (wish he had Rhett's money and charm...) I think it is such a true-to-life book, even down to Scarlett and Melanie being so close. Unfortunately, IRL that happens all the time! But, really, the only way I can imagine Rhett ever being attracted to Scarlett again is if she is attracted to someone else, and doesn't want him anymore. Unfortunately, that also seems to happen too often IRL - LOL! As for what I bought, All the history recs for high school. I even bought 3 different Spielvogel's trying to figure out which one to use - ugh! (And, yes, I have History of the Ancient World here, too!) I just couldn't stand the thought of not knowing for sure that I could handle doing high school at home. I needed to go ahead and make that decision - and couldn't without having it here to look at and ponder. But, since History of the Ancient World is the new rec for 9th grade, I'm thinking maybe the others won't be needed at all. But, I knew dh's business was about to hit the skids, so I bought them up before it was too late money-wise, iykwim. Glad I'm not the only Scarlett fan! Thanks for posting!

It's been too many years since I read the book, but I am definitely a Melanie person. I have always envied the strong, shrewd, carefree, positive, out-goingness of the "Scarletts" of the world! I realized yesterday that Scarlett is tied to the land, and Rhett is a *sea captain*. Again, it's been too long to remember very much from the book, but in the movie they are only happy in New Orleans - the closest one can get to a mixture of land and sea, I guess. And, it seems reasonable that M. Mitchell knew that Rhett and Scarlett together would always equal mud - not good. That just sort of threw cold water on all my fantasies! But, I love Scarlett. I know she's not perfect, but she's real. DH and I were discussing Rhett and Ashley with my younger ds - trying to get him open to the possibility that just because Rhett drinks and smokes and consorts with loose women, that he is at least honest, and not a completely contemptible character. And that if Ashley really were as honorable as he thinks himself to be, he would have broken Scarlett's heart at Twelve Oaks by being just as brutally honest with her as Rhett would have been. Oh, this won't make reading The Iliad any easier this summer!

Snort! =)

Oh, I had many nights in college that were sleepless, spent reading and crying! Especially the Sword of Shannara books. Oh, man, when the elf-girl (nameless after ump-teen years - sorry) had to turn into the tree to save the world - *that* was the worst. But, it was therapeutic. A good hurt, that hurt and went away. This is different. Yeah - I'm a hopeless romantic I guess.

I *know* Scarlett is a horribly selfish person. I know she doesn't deserve to have love and happiness and a happily-ever-after ending. BUT I *SO* BADLY WANT HER TO!!!!!! I didn't read the book this time (Gone With the Wind, if you didn't know - LOL!), just watched the movie - (knew my boys would only tolerate so much). We watched it *last week*, and I am still wishing I could re-write a few choice scenes! I just hate thinking of Rhett leaving - it really makes me so sad!!! Between this, dh's business problems, and not waiting for the new WTM before buying next year's stuff. Well....I am in a funk. ;)

Oh, a tough pill to swallow, indeed! I have already purchased most of the recommended books in the 2nd edition, and will probably just follow that. (Why did I do this when I was so determined to wait until the new edition?!) Really, I am afraid that Art of Agument and the Oxford will devolve into just reading the text. It is a bit like the blind leading the blind! I worry that I will be short-changing my kids, but OTOH, I know they will only fall through the cracks at public school - making A's and B's, but not really learning (BTDT). I am a bit sad to see that so much is changing! When I saw her last summer, I sat stunned and speechless - really feeling like I should just give up. But, if I can find something that has an answer key - that will be good, too! I have the new edition pre-ordered at Amazon. That is my present to me for skipping the weekend in VA (sniff, sniff!). I'm just dying waiting for it to get here. Thanks for the pre-view!

Are these recommended above/instead of Rod & Staff &/or Abeka for 9th and 10th grades? Thanks for posting! I've been dying to know, myself.

Are you using the original TOG? The Redesign (supposedly) is much better at analysis.

:grouphug: I understand!

She discussed options for high school level rhetoric (persuasive writing): IEW (their Rhetoric book, etc.), CW, Cochrane, and of course the method outlined in WTM. I think you could add LtoW as those levels develop. I pretty much took from it that all roads will get you to Rome on this and that it's pretty much a matter of which is going to be most user-friendly to you. They aren't all necessarily EQUAL, but they all have their good points and will get you there. But her ultimate point was that you're doing, in those courses, pre-digested Aristotle, where you could just use the method of study of Aristotle, etc. outlined in WTM and just get that info straight from the horse's mouth. Given how cumbersome some of those methods are (CW, etc., not to tip a sacred cow), it surprises me we don't have more discussion of that, kwim? I think we ought to be at least OPEN to the thought that we could get there just fine without CW, etc. And listening to her talks after looking at LToW, I'm really not SURE LToW is necessary either. Like I said, I was really impressed with the simplicity and potential of the WTM approach. Simple is good! Ok - so let's discuss! Actually, you discuss, and I'll listen - LOL!!!! I'm trying to plan for 9th grade, and given her blog entry here: http://www.susanwisebauer.com/blog/the-raving-writer/using-the-exercises-of-classical-rhetoric-in-high-school/ and the fact that IEW is now listed in the (sample) rhetoric chapter, I'm thinking something's changing. I've noticed that the original WTM recommended straight Aristotle, but not the 2nd edition. (It did recommend the Memoria Press Rhetoric for certain students, and I think it is a study of Aristotle.) So, rather than ask you specific questions, could you just elaborate a bit more on this? (Specifically, what is the "WTM Method" now?) Thanks, OHElizabeth!

My ds's and I have watched the first five lessons or so. (They are in 8th and 5th.) The 5th grader isn't really getting any "how to" out of it, but my 8th grader has actually been taking notes from his textbooks instead of winging it as usual. So, definitely progress there. But, I think even more than the "how to", the value of this course is in the "why". It was very helpful to have a man extol the virtues of working hard at learning - and it helped that he compared it to working hard at sports. It convinced my boys that 1. education isn't just for girls, and 2. that they can be successful if they are willing to do the work. After the second video, my older ds confided to me that he no longer was "afraid" to go back to public school, that now he had a plan he knew he could follow so that he wouldn't get "lost" in class. (This was a big problem for him in elementary school.) That was priceless. I want us to homeschool for high school, but not because ds is afraid of falling behind and failing at public school!!! I plan to start really implementing the entire system next year, when he starts 9th grade. I think (tho' we haven't tried it yet) that it will help us be successful in moving to some online and DVD classes - something which I'm still a little leery of. hth!

Oh, I was so glad you posted! The more help, the better. Lots of luck with yours!

Honey, You probably *will* feel overwhelmed. *I* feel overwhelmed every time I think of all there is to do - and all I *want* to do that seems to never get done. But, it's just a feeling. I don't have to be a slave to it. I just have to acknowledge that, yes, this is hard work at times. And, often times it is rather unrewarding work. Just like any other work! There will be days that you will just get "the basics" done. And, there will be weeks when your "basics" are much more basic than you think they should be in the middle of summer planning mode - LOL! But, I have found that even when we are in that mode, my kids are learning. Just a little bit every day adds up to *so much* over time - really. Of course, there are days that aren't overwhelming. There are moments when your heart will sing, and all is right with the world. Treasure those moments. And when those days come that it's hard to face "the daily grind", trust that some more of those moments are on their way. I guess what I'm trying to say is that homeschooling isn't always cream and roses! But, if you plan your work, and work your plan, you will be *amazed* at the results you get. Best wishes!

Oh, thank you, ladies! I knew you all would know what to do.

DH and I literally stumbled upon a foreclosed home last week that has the exact floor plan that just a few years ago we said, "OH, if we could *ever* get a house like this..." So, to help our current home sell as quickly as possible, do we leave some things here? (Yes, I *am* thinking of the red crayon that got smushed by the armchair and the fact that said armchair hides the resulting red stain on the carpet very well. ;)) But, DH says homes sell much faster if they're completely empty. What does the hive say? Thanks!

For both my boys, that was (is) 5th grade extending into 6th grade. During that very hormonally charged period, I was (am) much more picky about what they read (2 years ago the unabridged Sir Gawain & the Green Knight was nixed by me). And, they are more "ooh, gross, that's all about romance - what a yucky book!" during that time as well. (That was my 5th grader's thesis of Anne of Green Gables - he read an abridged version this year.) But, romance is more the "yuck" factor - just having a girl as the main character isn't. (They loved Tom Sawyer, but could not understand his fascination for Becky - LOL!) We did Little Women before my younger one's hormones hit this year, and we read it together (out loud, but everyone followed along in a book). They liked it fairly well because the majority of the book isn't about romance, and it was a neat review of Pilgrim's Progress, which they both liked. Once their hormones have mellowed a bit - and they're more used to handling those new feelings - then, everything relaxes. (Or, at least it has for my older ds.) He won't ever re-read Anne of Green Gables or The Importance of Being Earnest, but he did read them, understand them, and write a good narration on both of them. Really, we just do the best we can, and then move on!

I'm considering the downloadables for Biology next year (9th grade), because I think it will help my ds toughen up if someone else is grading him, but we can stay on our own schedule. I think this is the first year these have been available, but I'm hopeful it will be a really good thing!

Kate, I haven't used either, yet. But, what I'm finding as I'm reading & outlining both for next year is that Spielvogel tends to be more general information. HOAW is much more personal info. Check out Hammurabi in both, and you will see what I mean. One thing HOAW has that I *really* like is its discussions on the great books, and where they fit into history. For example, HOAW has a chapter on the real Gilgamesh and then a chapter on the myth of Gilgamesh, with some really good thoughts to help the reader see ways the myth symbolizes the conditions of the real Gilgamesh. It has a paraphrase of the Mahabharata (and the historical info behind it), and shows where the Baghavad Gita fits into that epic. Really good stuff! But, it will be hard to mesh them without destroying the narrative of the HOAW. And, I'm not sure if I can use HOAW and study history as the context of the books via the WTM plan - and I would really like for this child to discover the joy of finding things in the library for himself. That won't happen if we use HOAW. It will take much longer to get to Ancient Greece using HOAW. And, I think in my most honest moments, "Hey woman, Spielvogel is a *college level* textbook." Obviously the info in HOAW is really great and interesting, but is it really necessary for high school? IDK. I know that doesn't help you. Just wanted to let you know you're definitely not alone in pondering these things. Thanks for the discussion!

Nevermind... I think I got it. Looks interesting.

BJU's Pre-Algebra progresses very incrementally, there is constant review, AND there are three tracts ("slower" - (not the right word, which is escaping me at the moment), average, and advanced) pre-planned for you in the Teacher's Manual - very, very helpful! It was *way* more than adequate preparation for Jacob's Algebra this year. Jacob's is mostly pre-Algebra for the first half of the book; however, the BJU is more like "basic math with variables added in" than Jacob's. BJU Pre-Algebra is a pretty tough course, and I can't imagine needing another year of Pre-Algebra after it. IOW, he's either gonna "get it", or he's not. I wouldn't keep going if he were really struggling. You might find that you will need to slow some parts down, and add in some more practice. We had Lial's Basic College Math here, and I think maybe 3 times, I copies some problems out of that for some more practice. I would try the Pre-Algebra, and re-evaluate after the first test or two. You can always drop back into BJU-7th if the Pre-Algebra isn't clicking yet. And, even if you *do* drop back to Basic College Math or BJU 7th, you can still try for Algebra in 8th. The Jacob's would be very do-able after either of those, I think. The BJU Pre-Algebra was really, really, good and I really, really like it, but there was a lot of Geometry and Statistics and such in there that was really, really hard - as in, I suddenly knew how to do the practice SAT problems I get through my daily email! So, I don't think ALL of it is essential to have before Algebra. I may opt to do BJU 7th and then Jacob's in 8th with my next ds. He is not as abstract a thinker (yet) as his db was. HTH!

We did about one chapter, too, about two years ago. We did make a balloon model of the universe, which we attached to the ceiling fan of the dining room (where we do our school). It was neat to see the planets rotate around the sun for about a month! But, the book itself was just too much reading! We didn't get much farther. But, *JUST TODAY* I finally got the last bit of masking tape off the pull chain of the fan! :lol:

I'm not planning this on a daily basis, but I am thinking at least once a week next year, we'll do part of our homeschool at the library. (They have rooms for privacy.) I just can't think of any other way to get my ds's to do their own searching and to use the reference books! I admit I haven't taken advantage of the library nearly enough, and this may completely fail!!!

If I may be so bold.... Has your dd studied Ancients before? I think part of what made HO eventually unpalateable for my ds (he really liked it at first), was that Level 2 really doesn't use a narrative spine. And, since my ds had never studied Ancient history, he wasn't familiar with any of the people, places, or happenings. No stories already floating around in his head, that he was just looking at in a brand new light. So, if this will be her first go-round of Ancients, I would recommend reading SOTW-1 over the summer - either independently or as a read-aloud. That may seem draconian! But, I don't mean to ask her questions about it, or anything, just read it and enjoy. It would be too much to add it to HO, at least in our experience. IMHO, YMMV, and all that jazz~