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#1 SeaConquest

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:40 PM

Sacha (age 8, turning 9 in January) seems to have a recurrent issue with choking on his tests. I have posted before about him not performing to his potential on several tests in the past, for a variety of reasons (CTY entrance exam, Math Kangaroo, Exploratory Latin Exam, Achievement Testing, the COGAT, and now his first AOPS Academy exam for BA 5). I am wondering if I should be concerned (especially since his father and I both have ADD), or if this is just youth and immaturity, and will likely work its way out over time. 

 

I secretly wondered whether the issue was that I was perhaps scaffolding him too much in our homeschool. But, he works almost entirely independently on his BA problems. He turned all the BA online homework green or blue, yet his first exam result for BA 5A was orange (48/100 -- my understanding is that 50 would have turned it green). It seems to me that he has these issues when there is a time pressure vs. working at his own pace.

 

His attention span seems good for his age, especially when he is interested in something, but he is definitely an active, wiggly, talkative little boy. What are your thoughts/experiences?


Edited by SeaConquest, 14 November 2017 - 02:00 PM.


#2 SeaConquest

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:49 PM

This was a similar post I wrote last Spring after the achievement testing: 

 

http://forums.welltr...t-the-kid-long/

 

PS -- He is going on and on about mythology at the moment.



#3 SanDiegoMom in VA

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:15 PM

Was the exam timed? My son does really well ... if its not timed and if he's in the comfort of his own surroundings! He just came out a couple of hours ago from the AMC 8 crying (only kid out of 25 that was visibly upset).  He only answered 14 out of 25 problems. The time (forty minutes), surroundings (unfamiliar location and people) and of course time of day (11 am with no mid morning smoothie like he's used to having) really conspired against him. 

 

Just our own recent experience with a timed test -- not much help! 

 

 



#4 Arcadia

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:18 PM

He turned all the BA online homework green or blue, yet his first exam result for BA 5A was orange (48/100 -- my understanding is that 50 would have turned it green). It seems to me that he has these issues when there is a time pressure vs. working at his own pace.

His attention span seems good for his age, especially when he is interested in something, but he is definitely an active, wiggly, talkative little boy. What are your thoughts/experiences?

My DS11 is the active wiggly kid who probably swing his legs in the SAT, ACT, and AP exam room. I know he was swinging his legs for SCAT in the prometric test center because I could look in for a few minutes.

Was the BA exam at the academy or at home? My DS11 performs better and faster at a timed test in a classroom environment with other children. A timed test at home would always give a lower result. He has problems finishing on time but he doesn’t feel the time pressure, just know that he has a low probability of finishing all the questions and being happy with whatever he managed to finish. So no test anxiety for him.

If the BA test was done at the academy, how does your son do for timed test at home.
If the BA test was done at home then how is your son with other timed tasks that are not tests. Like being ready to get out of the door in 5mins.

Just trying to figure out if it is the time factor, the location, or the fact that it is a test with a score. Math Kangaroo is untimed I think, not sure as my “slow poke” didn’t have a time issue with that one.

ETA:
DS11 took the SCAT in November 2013, so just before turning 8. My kids are December babies.

Edited by Arcadia, 14 November 2017 - 02:22 PM.


#5 SeaConquest

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:54 PM

My understanding was that the test was timed. I believe they gave them an hour to finish. The class is over 90 minutes long (2:30-4:15, presumably with a break in there). He said that he finished in about 50 minutes, went back to review his work, and got distracted by a classmate. It was at the AoPS Academy. We don't do timed things at home, really. Just, do math for an hour, etc. If he dawdles, I might make him do more, or come back to it later.


Edited by SeaConquest, 14 November 2017 - 09:48 PM.


#6 SeaConquest

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:55 PM

Was the exam timed? My son does really well ... if its not timed and if he's in the comfort of his own surroundings! He just came out a couple of hours ago from the AMC 8 crying (only kid out of 25 that was visibly upset).  He only answered 14 out of 25 problems. The time (forty minutes), surroundings (unfamiliar location and people) and of course time of day (11 am with no mid morning smoothie like he's used to having) really conspired against him. 

 

Just our own recent experience with a timed test -- not much help! 

 

Poor guy. That sounds rough. :( Hugs.



#7 Arcadia

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:09 PM

My understanding was that the test was timed. I believe they gave them an hour to finish. The class is normally 90 minutes. He said that he finished in about 50 minutes, went back to review his work, and got distracted by a classmate. It was at the AoPS Academy.


That would probably eliminate the time and place factor for this BA test since it is a familiar location and he had time to spare. It might be test taking skills causing the mismatch you see between abilities and test scores.

#8 SeaConquest

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:36 PM

That would probably eliminate the time and place factor for this BA test since it is a familiar location and he had time to spare. It might be test taking skills causing the mismatch you see between abilities and test scores.

 

I wish that I knew how to help him! :(



#9 Arcadia

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:57 PM

I wish that I knew how to help him! :(

Test prep skills would help since time and anxiety aren’t the issue for the BA test. Did you get to see his exam answers? Did he miss out any questions by accident or did he complete all questions. My oldest had skip a question on a test, I had skip an entire two pages of a lower elementary level Chinese test (printed double sided) as a 1st or 2nd grader causing me to score 79/100 for an assessment test.

If he has completed all the questions, what was he losing marks on? Was it insufficient working causing him to not get full credit per question?

I am pro test prep skills for a high stakes test where a child needs the scores badly for a program that would be of great emotional benefit. Like an academic scholarship for a program that would be a wonderful fit for that child. For Sacha who is turning 9, I am ambivalent about spending time on test prep skills for a BA test as I am assuming he is not getting a scholarship based on those scores.
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#10 mathnerd

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:57 PM

Could you run a small experiment to figure this out? Get one of the old Math Kangaroo or CML question papers and give him the test at home in a quiet environment. See if he scores better at home with less distractions. My DS scores very well in tests with least distractions. He is almost flawless when the test is proctored in a one-on-one situation. But, in a noisy room where there are a ton of kids, some speaking, some rattling their chairs, some dropping their pencils, some asking to go to the bathroom, he scores 60% on a test where he could have made 100%. He is not ADD or ADHD, but, human voices and activities break his concentration. My DS is a "people oriented person" and almost instinctively tunes in to what others are talking about even when it is none of his business - he tends to do the with other kids during tests, a lot.


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#11 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:04 PM

Could he have a slow processing speed?  I wonder if his giftedness masks his processing speed but when he is anxious, he can't compensate as well.  If he has unlimited time on a test, does he do better?  (This is what happens with my gifted Aspie.)


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#12 SeaConquest

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:08 PM

This was the salient comment from his professor:

 

"I believe Sacha is benefiting from the class, but he does have trouble concentrating. I've witnessed a few occasions where he seemed overwhelmed and shut down, and I very frequently have to remind him what activity we are doing at any given time. He may simply not be used to a classroom environment, but hopefully his attendance here will help to acclimate him."

 

Father has ADD-inattentive and hyperactivity/impulsivity combo. I have ADD-inattentive, anxiety, and bipolar. I am not sure if it is processing speed, even though we seem to be having these issues more in a timed context, as much as it is carelessness and distractibility. I am just not sure how to suss this all out, or if it is something that will likely work itself out with time/maturity/practice.


Edited by SeaConquest, 14 November 2017 - 07:16 PM.


#13 SeaConquest

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:13 PM

I also realize that I am putting a homeschooled 3rd grade kid (who is used to being solo homeschooled in a very relaxed learning environment -- little brother is in preschool) in a 90+ minute class (on Sunday afternoons) with primarily 5th grade, high-achieving, public/private schooled kids to learn the hardest math program in our country. 


Edited by SeaConquest, 14 November 2017 - 09:46 PM.

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#14 Arcadia

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:18 PM

Wasn’t Sacha in the charter’s co-op classes last year or I might have gotten that mixed up?

Classroom environment is a chicken and egg problem for my DS11. A totally lecture style environment is wonderful for him. A tutorial style environment makes him want to talk and be distracted. So ironically the more the instructor lectures, the better he behaves and learn. The more discussions there are, the more chaotic it becomes for him.
He does better with kids older than him.

As his brick and mortar classes become more “serious” and less “chatty”, he is doing so much better. The more serious the class the more compliments he gets from the teachers. He had so many complaints from instructors for lower elementary classes that we had him evaluated for ADHD and autism. The general “verdict” was that he is easily bored and relatively immature.

So I would give AoPS academy class a full academic year before starting ADHD evaluations. It might just be teething problems with being in a class of older kids.

My DS12 was the “perfect” school kid since he was two and attending Chinese class. But he doesn’t talk. Just that teachers rarely gets annoyed with a “non-verbal” and hyper diplomatic kid.

ETA:
My kids are a year apart so DS12 has been babysitting DS11 since DS11 was a newborn. I could go to the restroom at home and he would automatically crawl over and watch over his baby brother.
DS11 is very used to being catered to so it was a huge adjustment when he attended his first brick and mortar class which happened to be swimming and gymnastics.

Edited by Arcadia, 14 November 2017 - 08:42 PM.

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#15 Jackie

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:52 PM

Have you asked any of the charter school teachers if they see anything that would flag for attention issues? I know it’s a more relaxed environment than many school settings, but even C’s circus arts teacher was able to flag her ADHD symptoms - and that was in a class of rambunctious, athletic kids.
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#16 SeaConquest

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:03 PM

Re the charter classes, his school is very loosey goosey with respect to behavior, IMO. I have never sat in on any of his classes (anywhere), but I get the impression that Sacha blends in much better with the homeschoolers/misfits at our charter school vs. the Tiger children at CTY/AoPS, who mostly attend top-tier public and private schools and are running around in their parents' MIT sweatshirts. Plus, all the classes he has at the charter are enrichment stuff that is run more casually (Lego, art, guitar, etc.)

 

So I would give AoPS academy class a full academic year before starting ADHD evaluations. It might just be teething problems with being in a class of older kids.

 

I think this is good advice. Thank you. 

 

For what it is worth, my husband thinks that S "definitely has ADD." But, my DH explicitly said that he doesn't want S on meds or anything on his "permanent record," whatever that means. I think my DH is traumatized by the way his ADD held him back in school (meds never helped him), and doesn't want to see the same thing happen to Sacha. I won't do anything right now, but I feel like, if we keep seeing the same issues repeatedly, we may want to take action (of what sort, I am not sure) at some point. 


Edited by SeaConquest, 14 November 2017 - 09:10 PM.


#17 SeaConquest

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:06 PM

Have you asked any of the charter school teachers if they see anything that would flag for attention issues? I know it’s a more relaxed environment than many school settings, but even C’s circus arts teacher was able to flag her ADHD symptoms - and that was in a class of rambunctious, athletic kids.

 

He had issues in preschool (being sent to the director's office), and his Kinder year at the charter school had some bumps, but I haven't had any feedback since then from his teachers at school. No one has ever said "ADHD." What kinds of things did the circus teacher say?



#18 Jackie

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:18 PM

He had issues in preschool (being sent to the director's office), and his Kinder year at the charter school had some bumps, but I haven't had any feedback since then from his teachers at school. No one has ever said "ADHD." What kinds of things did the circus teacher say?


The circus arts teacher is who filled out the questionnaires for the psych, since we didn’t have a traditional classroom teacher to do so. C showed up more strongly on the ADHD scales by the teacher’s responses than by mine - and it’s not like she wasn’t ADHD by my ratings. Among the stuff noted was difficulty transitioning between activities, needing instructions repeated often, and losing focus a lot.

We’re slowly meandering through the process for a possible IEP at the charter. The teachers hadn’t mentioned anything to me or the EF, but when asked directly, there are definitely some flags showing up within the classroom. Mostly in the Spanish class, which is the most traditionally school-y one she’s in.
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#19 Arcadia

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:20 PM

Look at the SNAP-IV questionnaire in link. It would give you some idea on what the evaluator for ADHD would be looking out for. I’ll still wait and see, and take this time to find out who are the good evaluators in your area. If there is still a need to evaluate then you already have the contacts and costs worked out.

https://depts.washin... Tools/SNAP.pdf

ETA:
Evaluation was 3hrs for adhd for tests and observation for DS11 many years ago.

Edited by Arcadia, 14 November 2017 - 09:22 PM.

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#20 Arcadia

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:19 AM

He only answered 14 out of 25 problems.


DS11 said he finished 15 out of 25 and he was dancing and sprinting all the way to the car. He is my slow poke so not finishing is normal. Our AMC8 is hosted at the university so it was during dinner time.
DS12 said he failed as usual instead of saying how many questions he completed. He is in 8th grade so today is his last AMC8. He is already counting down to AMC10/12.
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#21 Roadrunner

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:42 AM

I have another slow kid. At home he solved all 25 of last year's problems in 55 minutes. He simply can't do it quicker. He came out today and said he got through 20 of them only. Better than last year and much better than a year before. See where I am going with this? Your child is 8. Super, super young. You will see improvement every year. I wouldn't worry too much.
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#22 mathnerd

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:18 PM

I've witnessed a few occasions where he seemed overwhelmed and shut down, and I very frequently have to remind him what activity we are doing at any given time. 

 

This is something you need to dig into to get a better understanding of what is going on. Is Sacha overwhelmed  by the pace of the class? Maybe he is just used to intake of information at a slower pace.

Or is he unable to handle the group setting? Or is his concentration waning after 30 minutes (this is common and age appropriate in many 8 year olds)? Or is he simply anxious and stressed out that he has to listen, write and follow along at a faster pace than he is used to? Or is he not interested in being in a structured environment and doing seat work late in the evening (I assume that this is an afterschool class for elementary students)?

 

Does he take private lessons for music or any other activity? If so, is he focused for the duration of his private lesson? And how does he like the AOPS classes? Is he stressed out by them or is he enjoying the experience?


Edited by mathnerd, 15 November 2017 - 12:19 PM.

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#23 Arcadia

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:48 PM

The class is over 90 minutes long (2:30-4:15, presumably with a break in there).

  

Or is his concentration waning after 30 minutes (this is common and age appropriate in many 8 year olds)?

Assuming there is a break, how is Sacha with transitions from break to part 2 of a class?

My DS12 is very structured and hates changes when he was younger but was very good at seatwork-recess-seatwork transitions. He could switch his mental state very fast from clowning around during recess back to academics from a very young age.
My DS11 on the other hand was more “normal” and needed time to switch from playing during recess to calming down for part two of class. So after recess the teachers usually would do some warm up grammar/vocabulary exercise for 5 to 10mins to get them back into the frame of lesson time (that is for a 2.5 hrs class with 20 mins for recess). For a full day class, the afternoon teacher would round up the kids from the 1hr lunch break about 10 mins before class starts so that kids can settle down and concentrate. Expectations did increase with age even though some classes are mixed age (around 9 to 14 years old) so the teachers do expect better behavior from older kids than younger kids in the same class.

My kids music theory group class however had high expectations of behavior as they group by age and also the majority are public school kids. So the group class for 3rd-5th graders are very serious, lecture style kind where kids are seated and ready 5mins before class starts.

#24 Heigh Ho

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:29 PM

Can you sit in and observe?

 

My mathy dc wanted deeper, so he would often dive in and think through whatever was presented, then rejoin the class.  It didn't hurt in public school as they have so much review built in, but in AoPS online he needed to scan the text record quickly to catch up to the class.  If it were live, he would be perceived as inattentive, but at AoPS he was perceived as normal. At public school math club for 6-9th grade, the teacher thought at first he was just young and inattentive. He was frustrated because the other participants clearly were trying to memorize, not think thru...very hard to get a discussion going after contest. 

 

regarding the exam, the most helpful thing is always rework it. what was wrong, why, what can be done about that next time in terms of preparation.


Edited by Heigh Ho, 15 November 2017 - 01:32 PM.


#25 SeaConquest

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 12:37 PM

This is something you need to dig into to get a better understanding of what is going on. Is Sacha overwhelmed  by the pace of the class? Maybe he is just used to intake of information at a slower pace.

Or is he unable to handle the group setting? Or is his concentration waning after 30 minutes (this is common and age appropriate in many 8 year olds)? Or is he simply anxious and stressed out that he has to listen, write and follow along at a faster pace than he is used to? Or is he not interested in being in a structured environment and doing seat work late in the evening (I assume that this is an afterschool class for elementary students)?

 

Does he take private lessons for music or any other activity? If so, is he focused for the duration of his private lesson? And how does he like the AOPS classes? Is he stressed out by them or is he enjoying the experience?

 

 

   Assuming there is a break, how is Sacha with transitions from break to part 2 of a class?
 

 

 

Can you sit in and observe?

 

 

I appreciate all the feedback, but I have to be honest, I don't know the answer to any of these questions. It is becoming clear to me that I have been too hands-off. I have never sat in on any of his my kids' classes. It never even occurred to me to do so. Just like last year, when S took the WJ test, it never occurred to me to be in the room with them while testing was taking place (whereas the other boardie whose kid was tested was in the room with them).

 

My kids are both very independent, and I have always thought of that as a good thing. But, to be honest, I have been incredibly busy in the last year completing lab science prerequisites for nursing school. So, I likely haven't been paying as much attention to my kids as I should. I am supposed to start nursing school in the fall, and my schedule will become even crazier for awhile, if I go forward. But now, I am wondering if this is a really the best thing for my family. It seems that I am letting too much fall through the cracks at home. :(



#26 MamaSprout

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 01:08 PM

If it helps at all, dd just missed a "measure the turtle with a ruler" question that was randomly placed in review section in her geometry course. She's never done well on tests, but seriously I wonder if she even read the question.
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#27 Arcadia

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 01:18 PM

I have never sat in on any of his my kids' classes. It never even occurred to me to do so. Just like last year, when S took the WJ test, it never occurred to me to be in the room with them while testing was taking place (whereas the other boardie whose kid was tested was in the room with them).(


I have only sat in for gym and swimming and some of my kids music lessons. I had lots of teachers feedback for my oldest because he doesn’t like to talk which is unusual to them. My youngest had lots of complaints from teachers due to “immaturity”.

We won’t in the room for academic testing but we did get plenty of feedback. I was in the next room when my kids did the WISC so I did hear the instructions and my kids responses.

I would say that I kind of demanded feedback from their instructors from preschool and up as both my kids are quirky. My husband and I wanted to preempt as many behavior issues as possible and also let their teachers know whatever accommodations has worked in the past. Like ignoring DS11’s whining works very well as he has a tendency to push buttons and test boundaries.

So just to say you don’t need to sit in to get useful feedback on your child. You do have to ask for feedback though because teachers don’t generally give detailed feedback unless probe. It has to do with the student teacher ratio rather than unwillingness on the teacher’s part. 45mins of parent teacher conference multiply by 30 kids in k-2nd grade is really hard time wise on the teacher so only parents that requested had a long session with the teacher. For outside brick and mortar classes, we let the teachers know to drop us an email for any issues or we talk 10 to 15 mins before class if the teacher prefers not to email.
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#28 mathnerd

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 02:51 PM

If you cannot sit in on your son's classes, you can use email or chat with the instructor for a few minutes at pickup time.  My son is super independent. And, he also does a lot of sloppy work and he does not care if his output is not clean and perfect (this includes sports, music, math and everything else he does!) unless someone who cares a lot about it makes a big deal about it. So, I sit in on the last 10 minutes of his classes and watch what the coach/instructor says to him so that I can remind him to fix his issues when he does homework or practices on his own. Since I have to pick him up, I try to get there 10 minutes earlier. Not very difficult to do as I always try to be ahead of time given the bad traffic in my area.

 

Most of his classes have a semi-annual open house day and I sit in on his classes on those days and observe. I also email or text the teachers (his music teachers are very communicative and text frequently) and ask them for their feedback frequently. What I am trying to say is that you can go about your regularly scheduled programming if you use emails/texts/pickup time to get a better idea of what is going on with the classes.


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#29 Jackie

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 08:34 PM

I don’t sit in on any of DD’s classes unless they’re activities that last a short enough time (<60 minutes) that I don’t have time to do anything else. I wouldn’t dream of sitting in for testing because an extra human being in the room would be more of a distraction for DD. But I do seek feedback because I know many instructors won’t give it otherwise. Even when I *know* there’s an issue because DD tells me about it, I’ve sometimes had instructors say “Oh, everything’s fine” unless I ask them for more specific feedback. I learned that lesson after DD was temporarily demoted levels in gymnastics for some behavioral issues that no one had bothered mentioning until they got way out of control.

#30 eternalsummer

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 09:19 PM

I never sit in on classes, or sports practices, or rehearsals, or anything.  I have 6 kids, and 3 of them are age 4 and younger, and I run a small business.  Three is no universe in which I am sitting in on classes.  Plus, with my kid, it would just make the situation worse/weird - it wouldn't help.

 

Now, I do hear you on the difference between emotional/behavioral maturity and intellectual maturity.  A class full of public/private schooled kids who are used to a classroom setting and are 2+ years older, even if your kid is working at the same level of math, is probably not going to be a great fit for most kids.  Mine would definitely definitely not thrive in that kind of environment, and I don't know that his performance would really match what he could do at home as well either.  For kids who are more used to school, and/or more used to rigorous testing and controlled environments and timed tests and etc., there is less discrepancy between what they can do on their own and what they can do in a classroom or on a test because  there is no learning curve.

 

That said, it is entirely possible, and I think probable, that part of the reason your kid has done so well at math so far is because he's been homeschooled and you've been able to scaffold and tutor and etc.  This is not a bad thing.  It's like when I scribe for my kid with slow, bad handwriting - he can write like a real 4th grader when I do that.  Otherwise, it takes him forever and it looks like a kindergartner wrote it, and his progress at transferring thoughts to writing, logically ordering thoughts, learning spelling, grammar, narration, etc. is much slower.

 

 


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#31 KaleSprouts

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:06 PM

I'm not familiar with the BA online scoring system. What is the significance of the color system? Is it a quartile system or something based on a curve for the class?

#32 SeaConquest

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:13 PM

I'm not familiar with the BA online scoring system. What is the significance of the color system? Is it a quartile system or something based on a curve for the class?

I believe it is the same system used by AoPS with the older kids with Alcumus and in their classes. I'm not sure exactly how it works. Green is mastery enough to move you on. Blue is greater mastery, orange is less. Perhaps, someone else knows the intricacies of how it works.

I don't generally solicit feedback from teachers unless I'm expecting some issue. I just generally have been of the 'no news is good news' and 'don't borrow trouble' mindset, but perhaps I need to rethink that as well.

Edited by SeaConquest, 16 November 2017 - 10:15 PM.


#33 daijobu

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:14 PM

 

 

For what it is worth, my husband thinks that S "definitely has ADD." But, my DH explicitly said that he doesn't want S on meds or anything on his "permanent record," whatever that means. I think my DH is traumatized by the way his ADD held him back in school (meds never helped him), and doesn't want to see the same thing happen to Sacha. I won't do anything right now, but I feel like, if we keep seeing the same issues repeatedly, we may want to take action (of what sort, I am not sure) at some point. 

 

Let me start by saying I hardly know anything about ADD.  But here goes with a grain of salt:

 

Can your ds get an evaluation for ADD perhaps with the intention of exploring non-pharma therapies or coping strategies, if there are any?  Or just to get a better understanding of what is going on?  (Maybe after you've spent sometime observing his class participation.)

 

Does your dh think he might improve with age and maturity?  He's only 8, so none of his grades really count for anything unless you are applying to a competitive private middle school.  So maybe just make sure he's solid on what he is learning, and don't sweat the exam scores?  Especially if you think he'll outgrow whatever is holding him back.  


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#34 daijobu

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:19 PM

Was the exam timed? My son does really well ... if its not timed and if he's in the comfort of his own surroundings! He just came out a couple of hours ago from the AMC 8 crying (only kid out of 25 that was visibly upset).  He only answered 14 out of 25 problems.  

 

The median (middle) score on the 2016 AMC 8 was 9 (see page 2).  Scoring 14 could put him close to the top 10%

 

This isn't the middle score of all students in the US of A.  Really, only the best math students are taking the AMC 8, so if you are scoring a 9, you right in the middle of the pack among the best students.  Scoring 14 puts you way at the tippy top.  

 

Unless he's sad because he was scoring higher than 14 on practice tests?

 

ETA: added the link to the statistics document.


Edited by daijobu, 16 November 2017 - 10:20 PM.


#35 KaleSprouts

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Posted Yesterday, 12:07 AM

Thanks, we do BA at home so the color system made me curious about their scoring. Your post made me think about what differences there probably are in how we are doing it at home vs. how the class works at the center.
I don't have any helpful insights for you, but I do hope you find a path forward that works for you and your son.
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#36 pinewarbler

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Posted Today, 09:27 AM

Even young students in public schools "used to controlled environments and timed tests" choke on tests. My kids were about 2 years past this age before I could confidently know that their level of knowledge would be reflected in most of their tests.

 

Wish I had kept some of the crazy tests they have been given over the years as examples. Early elementary teachers, IMO, seem unable to design a test that would actually evaluate the student's knowledge of that particular unit. Then my kids get to listen to them yell, scream and pull hair as they take up the test with the class... 'you weren't listening', 'I've taught this to you many times", etc.

 

My favourites (which I still see on high school tests) ask the student to write a paragraph about something then give one or two lines to write. (Or give an algebra question that would take at least a page to solve (using AoPS shortcuts) and then only give 2 inches of blank space. Many young kids won't write in the margins or on the back of a test if they run out of room... they think it is against the rules.

 

Then there are the ones that give grade 1's three-part questions. All the info is at the top in one clump, and then there is a yawning space to write in. Inevitably no one answers the third part.

 

Then there are tests where you can't tell what response is required.. a chart, a paragraph, a diagram??? And don't you know that only one of those responses will garner you a perfect score.

 

I once erased all the answers on my DS's grade 1 math tests. It was the most horrific example of all of the above (and more). I gave the test to my husband to do. He got 50% :huh:


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#37 Lecka

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Posted Today, 10:03 AM

But he is a 3rd grader in a class with 5th graders?  I think just maturity is probably it.  He can still be benefiting from the class and learning.  Or it can be getting to the point that he is frustrated.  Maybe he is annoying other kids. 

 

I think if other things are going well, maybe skip days or pick him up early when they have a test. 

 

Or print the questions and give them over 2-3 periods of time, if it is an online test. 

 

I don't think that the way ADD works, is to expect a 3rd grade to meet 5th grade expectations.  And I don't mean academics -- I mean focus, time-on-task, independent work.  The expectations for those aren't the same for a 3rd grader or a 5th grader.

 

And it's early in the year for a 3rd grader, too. 

 

Also, as far as your teacher feedback, if this teacher has never worked in an elementary school, he/she may not know much about what is typical for a certain age of kids.  It wouldn't be part of his/her experience.  So I don't think you are going to get the answer of "how in-the-range-of-typical is this?" from this setting. 


Edited by Lecka, Today, 10:05 AM.


#38 SeaConquest

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Posted Today, 01:30 PM

But he is a 3rd grader in a class with 5th graders?  I think just maturity is probably it.  He can still be benefiting from the class and learning.  Or it can be getting to the point that he is frustrated.  Maybe he is annoying other kids. 

 

I think if other things are going well, maybe skip days or pick him up early when they have a test. 

 

Or print the questions and give them over 2-3 periods of time, if it is an online test. 

 

I don't think that the way ADD works, is to expect a 3rd grade to meet 5th grade expectations.  And I don't mean academics -- I mean focus, time-on-task, independent work.  The expectations for those aren't the same for a 3rd grader or a 5th grader.

 

And it's early in the year for a 3rd grader, too. 

 

Also, as far as your teacher feedback, if this teacher has never worked in an elementary school, he/she may not know much about what is typical for a certain age of kids.  It wouldn't be part of his/her experience.  So I don't think you are going to get the answer of "how in-the-range-of-typical is this?" from this setting. 

 

His teacher has a PhD in math, and I get the impression that he has not taught at the elementary level before. I don't know if that is true, but it is just speculation on my part.

 

He is definitely benefiting from the class, and is generally doing fine on his work at home.