Ignore this thread!

[Slache]

You make an excellent point.  Which is one of (many) reasons why this situation is so hard. :sad:

 

I know.  :grouphug:

[Another Lynn]

Sounds like Youth Director guy is coming from a place of fear - fear that kids will believe evolution and/ or lose their faith.  I'm not sure that a conversation about how to treat people who disagree with him will deal his underlying fear.  All these things probably need to come down from leadership at the top.  Tough situation.  You could talk with him about both things in a more general manner, but tough all the way around.  

Edited May 6, 2017 by Another Lynn

[JoJosMom]

Ok,JJM, here are my thoughts.

 

First, we are in the Reformed camp, although not the hyper-Calvinist super conservative type.

 

Second, DH is definitely OEC, I am.....I can see arguments for both YE and OE and I refuse to be dogmatic about any of it. And we both think Ken Ham is a wackadoo!!

 

Third, the church we are attending is not Reformed, though we sense that the new pastor leans that way. There are things theologically we don't agree with, but .... when we were Presbyterian, we didn't believe in paedobaptism and it really didn't come up as an issue.

 

All that to say, I don't know what to tell you. My first instinct, when people get militant about things like creationism, especially, but even things like submission and stuff like that is to run. And I know you don't have a lot of choices. I mean, it's one thing to be dogmatic about things like... Oh, the Virgin Birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, that sort of thing. But when people get dogmatic, extremely dogmatic, about peripheral things..... in my experience, they cannot be reasoned with. It's their way or the highway.

 

I definitely agree with you, Krissi!  The thing is, we acknowledge that his mind is made up and respect his viewpoint and right to hold it.  I just don't think that he should cr*p all over ANY child raising questions about debatable issues.  If the kids can't raise these issues in youth group, then why have it?

 

Thankfully, my child is willing to talk to me about anything, but Slash is absolutely right:  What if she were facing a difficult situation and we did NOT have that kind of relationship?  To whom would she turn?

[AMJ]

I feel this is dishonest. Jo is old enough to decide if something should be done.

 

 

In regards to treatment of herself by this guy, I would agree.  However, I doubt that he is treating ONLY her this way, so the administration needs to be warned about his behavior.  Better they get a warning and the opportunity to address the problem than simply let it go until it is so bad someone does something drastic, or files suit against the organization.

 

It is definitely a tough call to make, with the potential for repercussions.  Unfortunately such fear of repercussions often not only allows the problem to continue, but often appears to give tacit approval.

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  to Jo and JJM, no matter what is decided regarding this.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Jean, hope Rocky let you sleep straight through.

 

 

Rocky woke me up once but it was early in the night so I got a good long chunk of sleep afterwards.  Good long chunks are good.  So is sleeping in, which I got to do for the first time in a long time.  Not too long of a sleep in - my body doesn't let me do that anymore.  But still I slept in some.  Which means that I now have the strength to do "all the things", right?  No?  Bummer. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yeah, it wasn't until Lynn mentioned it that I thought about the breaks. She's a very active child. I'm concerned about her attending to the work. But, if it's changing up every 30 minutes, it might work. Or not.

 

Dancer thinks it's interesting that she and Gymnast would be studying the same history (American).  :lol:

 

I wish I'd had a chance to see it in action, but they held the classes during my full work day. And it has ended already. 

How much of a commitment do they require?  Can you try it out and see how good a fit it is for her and if it is a bad fit, get a refund? 

[JoJosMom]

Sounds like Youth Director guy is coming from a place of fear - fear that kids will believe evolution and/ or lose their faith.  I'm not sure that a conversation about how to treat people who disagree with him will deal his underlying fear.  All these things probably need to come down from leadership at the top.  Tough situation.  You could talk with him about both things in a more general manner, but tough all the way around.  

 

What's sad is that I completely share this fear.  The Church loses SO many young people when they go to college and find that much of what they have been taught is demonstrably false.  If they have been taught that "the Entire Truth of the Christian message rests on x interpretation of this passage/interpretation/whatever," then they are set up to reject Christ entirely when that passage/interpretation/whatever falls.  That breaks my heart.

[Slache]

Sounds like Youth Director guy is coming from a place of fear - fear that kids will believe evolution and/ or lose their faith.  I'm not sure that a conversation about how to treat people who disagree with him will deal his underlying fear.  All these things probably need to come down from leadership at the top.  Tough situation.  You could talk with him about both things in a more general manner, but tough all the way around.  

 

I'll bet this is right on the nose. It wouldn't surprise me if he was up all night feeling guilty over what he did.

[AMJ]

Rocky woke me up once but it was early in the night so I got a good long chunk of sleep afterwards.  Good long chunks are good.  So is sleeping in, which I got to do for the first time in a long time.  Not too long of a sleep in - my body doesn't let me do that anymore.  But still I slept in some.  Which means that I now have the strength to do "all the things", right?  No?  Bummer. 

 

Pushing yourself too hard will entirely erase the benefits of the good sleep.  Do some of the things, but also make sure you get some more rest periods.  Frequent short ones often help a lot when you have a many-hour stretch with no option for a longer break.

 

Not that I don't think you don't already know this.  Sometimes we just need to be reminded of what we already know.  :wink:

[Renai]

How much of a commitment do they require?  Can you try it out and see how good a fit it is for her and if it is a bad fit, get a refund? 

 

No refunds.

[Renai]

I'm hungry because I didn't have breakfast. I'm making a snack of turkey bacon and smoked sausage.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Except, they're in the same office. I forgot to mention that part. 

 

Can't you get a second opinion from any doctor you want?  Or are there not enough choices in the area? 

[Another Lynn]

I'll bet this is right on the nose. It wouldn't surprise me if he was up all night feeling guilty over what he did.

 

He either feels guilty over it, or is congratulating himself for nipping doubts in the bud.  Imho, it's partly a problem of someone leading kids who has never parented teens through to adulthood himself.  (I'm guessing, right?)

[Jean in Newcastle]

An Oort Cloud doesn't even go against YEC teachings!

 

What's an Oort cloud?  :leaving:  (Edited to say that I have now read both links telling me what an Oort cloud is.  Thank you.)

 

I'm a creation agnostic.  And I'm a conservative pastor's wife.  I believe in Intelligent Design with a specific intelligent creator.  I also believe in an inerrant Bible.  But I am not necessarily a six day creationist.  Because. . . creation agnostic.  Don't tell. 

 

 

Eeek!  What kind of a booyah is this?  :leaving:

Edited May 6, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[Slache]

What's an Oort cloud?  :leaving:

 

I'm a creation agnostic.  And I'm a conservative pastor's wife.  I believe in Intelligent Design with a specific intelligent creator.  I also believe in an inerrant Bible.  But I am not necessarily a six day creationist.  Because. . . creation agnostic.  Don't tell. 

 

 

Eeek!  What kind of a booyah is this?  :leaving:

 

A BAD ONE! BAD PASTOR'S WIFE! BAD!

 

(this was sarcasm)

Edited May 6, 2017 by Slache

[Renai]

Can't you get a second opinion from any doctor you want?  Or are there not enough choices in the area? 

 

It has to do with insurance and how they will cover. I need to contact the Albuquerque doctor and see what's been done as far as getting the other referrals.

[Renai]

He either feels guilty over it, or is congratulating himself for nipping doubts in the bud.  Imho, it's partly a problem of someone leading kids who has never parented teens through to adulthood himself.  (I'm guessing, right?)

 

It has to be. This age group is known to ask questions and want real answers. It's way past "because I said so."

[Slache]

Except she meant to say "Treating her that way was UNBiblical."

:mellow:

[lanalouwho]

Yes, she sucks. But, they aren't finding anything, the MRI didn't find anything. No one is finding anything.

 

Yes. It's just too late to do that for this year. I'm basically going in blind.

At our community here, they allow people to join mid-semester or mid-year as long as they have space. But it's a really small community so the classes aren't full.

 

I don't think I would be able to commit that much time and money without being able to observe for a day.

 

Sent from my HTCD160LVW using Tapatalk

[AMJ]

What's an Oort cloud?  :leaving:  (Edited to say that I have now read both links telling me what an Oort cloud is.  Thank you.)

 

I'm a creation agnostic.  And I'm a conservative pastor's wife.  I believe in Intelligent Design with a specific intelligent creator.  I also believe in an inerrant Bible.  But I am not necessarily a six day creationist.  Because. . . creation agnostic.  Don't tell. 

 

 

Eeek!  What kind of a booyah is this?  :leaving:

 

 

An open-minded-doesn't-presume-to-know-everything one!

[Slache]

I'm open minded, but I also know everything.  :coolgleamA:

[Renai]

Be open-minded. But not so open-minded your brains fall out.

 

:lol:

[Slache]

Of course, if I knew everything I couldn't possibly be open minded. Now I'm having an existential crisis.

[JoJosMom]

What's an Oort cloud?  :leaving:  (Edited to say that I have now read both links telling me what an Oort cloud is.  Thank you.)

 

I'm a creation agnostic.  And I'm a conservative pastor's wife.  I believe in Intelligent Design with a specific intelligent creator.  I also believe in an inerrant Bible.  But I am not necessarily a six day creationist.  Because. . . creation agnostic.  Don't tell. 

 

 

Eeek!  What kind of a booyah is this?  :leaving:

 

I think it's an Agnostic, Noncommittal BOOYA!

[Slache]

Be open-minded. But not so open-minded your brains fall out.

 

:lol:

 

Duct tape.

[JoJosMom]

First of all, THANK YOU.  I can't begin to tell you how valuable your thoughts and insights are to me. :001_wub:   (I don't know what it says about me that the best guidance I get in my life is from imaginary friends on the internet, so let's just not go there!)

 

 

I'll bet this is right on the nose. It wouldn't surprise me if he was up all night feeling guilty over what he did.

 

It's possible.  He's is NOT a bad person and did ask DD at the end of the night if she was okay.  And she lied and said "yes." :001_rolleyes:

 

He either feels guilty over it, or is congratulating himself for nipping doubts in the bud.  Imho, it's partly a problem of someone leading kids who has never parented teens through to adulthood himself.  (I'm guessing, right?)

 

One of his daughters is 18, and she is just as dogmatic as her father.  But she hasn't ever left home-yet.

 

It has to be. This age group is known to ask questions and want real answers. It's way past "because I said so."

 

Except so far that's worked for him, so he's really coming from a position of ignorance.

 

Sigh.  Do any of you know of guidance for youth group leaders?  Again, he is not a bad person and I really, REALLY respect his willingness to spend so much of his time with the kids.  This isn't the first time this has come up, just the first time with DD as victim.  The father of another student/victim is an elder who is parenting the last three of nine.  It is that family to whom I may turn, because they totally get the need to expect questions and to treat them respectfully.

 

Truly, I really appreciate you all.

[Junie]

(((JJM))) and (((Jo)))

 

I think that since he asked her afterward if she was ok that he realized that maybe he stepped out of bounds.  But since she said that she was fine that just confirmed for him that what he said was not out of bounds.  I think either you or Jo need to tell him that his comments were not appreciated and that they were demeaning.

 

FTR, I am young earth.  And I can think of quite a few people with Ph.D.'s with whom I would disagree.  On a number of things.  His logic was not sound.

[Another Lynn]

(((JJM))) and (((Jo)))

 

I think that since he asked her afterward if she was ok that he realized that maybe he stepped out of bounds.  But since she said that she was fine that just confirmed for him that what he said was not out of bounds.  I think either you or Jo need to tell him that his comments were not appreciated and that they were demeaning.

 

FTR, I am young earth.  And I can think of quite a few people with Ph.D.'s with whom I would disagree.  On a number of things.  His logic was not sound.

 

Yes!  

[Another Lynn]

(Ya know, I wish the forum would tell me when I'm using my last "like" instead of telling me I'm out.)  

[Jean in Newcastle]

(Ya know, I wish the forum would tell me when I'm using my last "like" instead of telling me I'm out.)  

 

A "like alert".  I like it!

[Slache]

Mooies is getting memory work. She's so big. :crying: This week I'm introducing my phone number and I’m Glad, by Anonymous.

 

I'm glad the sky is painted blue;

And the earth is painted green;

And such a lot of nice fresh air

All sandwiched in between.

[lots of little ducklings]

 

Good morning! It's a beautiful Saturday!!!

 

 

 

Ellie is the most centered ITTer I know.   :hat:

[lots of little ducklings]

For elementary school I lived in northern Illinois (do NOT pronounce that "s").  It was Duck Duck Goose there.  Everywhere I've been it's been Duck Duck Goose -- I have never heard of Duck Duck Gray-Duck.  Where did you grow up? 

 

 

ETA: even throughout southern MN I never heard it referred to with the gray duck.

 

 

I am a gray duck.

 

 

(sorry.  had to bite.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I just cleaned the bathroom.  It was grody to the max.  OK - maybe not to the max.  I've seen worse before.  But it was bad enough. 

[Slache]

Ewww. My tub is actually soaking in vinegar right now.

[Slache]

I hate Windows 10.

[73349]

My cat is so, so glad the presumably felivorous strangers have gone away.

[Critterfixer]

There is a soporific feline influence snoozing on the end of the bed. The tip of her little pink tongue is sticking out. I may be forced to nap against my will.

I'm trying to decide if a waterfall would soothe me tomorrow, or if I'd rather home and sleep. I haven't decided yet.

[lots of little ducklings]

Fast-paced compared to what we do at home. At home we are pretty relaxed, keep lessons short, and take frequent breaks. At CC, we started at 9 and switched subjects every half hour. But there was only one break between 9-12 and no transition between subjects. They just jumped right in to the next thing. I understand why they need to do it that way, only meeting once a week for a few hours. It just didn't really fit with the way we like to work.

 

Edited to add: Just because it didn't fit us, doesn't mean it won't work for her. Like I said earlier, my nephews are really thriving with that community.

 

True. The morning flies by.  And it's also a lot to wrap your head around the first year.  If you go into it trying to get your child to master everything while supplementing each subject with lots of related materials at home, you'll burn out and hate it.  

 

First year is exposure, period, IMHO.  Especially for a child your dd's age.  If you do it, have fun with it.  And if you like learning through songs, spend time this summer paying $6 for a month's access to CC Connected, then download mom-created songs you like for all the Cycle 3 subjects -- like geography, science, some of the math, and grammar -- that don't already have official CC songs (the official songs are for history, timeline, some math, and latin; they are available on a CD or on an online app at CC Connected).   It's much easier to do that over the summer than to do it week-by-week during the school year. Play the songs every time you're traveling in the car, and boom.  CC is checked off the list and dd will have learned tons while having fun with new friends.  

[Critterfixer]

So I haven't died of death. Yet. I just feel like I need to sleep for twenty-four hours in a dark hole with limited people to check on my from time to time. You know...see if I'm breathing, need a bite to eat, a drink of water. That sort of thing. I had a patient this week who would only eat when we put her in a darkened room or completely covered her space with a gigantic blanket. I know exactly how that feels.

[Slache]

I HATE WINDOWS 10!

[lots of little ducklings]

I say Or not because currently our lessons are as short as 5 minutes sometimes for phonics, but up to 10. Math can be a bit longer, as long as she doesn't have to write much. This is the child that has been watched more by her older sister and dh, and has spent a lot of time in front of the tv. Her attention span is extremely short. And she's always moving. Something. Even if it's just a finger.

 

The 30 minutes for new grammar requires the tutor to introduce new memory work across 7 subjects.  So he/she will have about 4 minutes per subject.  If the tutor is good, he/she is using rhythm, songs, motions, ball-tossing games, and/or other such things which change up for each subject.  So a long attention span isn't really needed.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I HATE WINDOWS 10!

 

you yell a lot.

[Slache]

you yell a lot.

 

I'm a very passionate person.

[lots of little ducklings]

No refunds.

 

You can be refunded, IF there is a new student coming in to take your place. Otherwise, yes, you lose your money.

 

 

It does totally suck. (I wish you could have gone to an open house.)  But I get why they do it that way.  It prevents the flakeys from sabotaging the group.  The tutors need to be paid (it's a lot of extra work for them), and 3 or 4 drop-outs in October could really goof things up.  

[lots of little ducklings]

I tackled that to do list from yesterday.... Woo hoo!  

 

Today:

 

-grocery shopping (dh did this) - CHECK

-put away groceries - CHECK

-shred all the cheeses (dh did this, and learned the hard way why I always buy mozzarella pre-shredded) - CHECK

-six loads of laundry put away - CHECK almost (ds still has his own stuff to do)

-make and freeze 6 batches of meatballs

-continue filing and sorting school stuff (math was finished yesterday)

-make ds2's bed

-make corn and potato soup for dinner

 

[Renai]

You can be refunded, IF there is a new student coming in to take your place. Otherwise, yes, you lose your money.

 

 

It does totally suck. (I wish you could have gone to an open house.)  But I get why they do it that way.  It prevents the flakeys from sabotaging the group.  The tutors need to be paid (it's a lot of extra work for them), and 3 or 4 drop-outs in October could really goof things up.  

 

I don't have a problem with it, really. I've paid more for a semester of gymnastics, and still flaked.

[Renai]

So, I'm reading on the College of Optometrist website about the red and green test (duochrome), and it distinctly says that depending on the type of correction (if done correctly), the color WILL help the eye to see clearly. So, why was the doctor insistent that the color of the lens had nothing to do with what Dancer could see???

[JoJosMom]

(((JJM))) and (((Jo)))

 

I think that since he asked her afterward if she was ok that he realized that maybe he stepped out of bounds.  But since she said that she was fine that just confirmed for him that what he said was not out of bounds.  I think either you or Jo need to tell him that his comments were not appreciated and that they were demeaning.

 

FTR, I am young earth.  And I can think of quite a few people with Ph.D.'s with whom I would disagree.  On a number of things.  His logic was not sound.

 

I agree, and we have discussed this.  The problem is that she is a non-confrontational type, and she was humilated and hurting when he asked her.  All she wanted to do is escape.

 

She needs some time now for the sting to lessen, then we'll talk again.  I will go to the elder we know; it would just be helpful if I could come up with specific ideas.  I may try to come up with my own "Guidelines for Fruitful Discussions."

 

And if you only knew how hard it is to not.kill.that.man.  Parenting one's radical-opposite-in-every-possible-way is not easy.  Is that thunder I hear or is God laughing at me? 

[JoJosMom]

So, I'm reading on the College of Optometrist website about the red and green test (duochrome), and it distinctly says that depending on the type of correction (if done correctly), the color WILL help the eye to see clearly. So, why was the doctor insistent that the color of the lens had nothing to do with what Dancer could see???

 

Because she's stupid?