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Did you finish all basic math first (i.e. addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, fractions, decimals) or did you just address any gaps as they came up? DD is anxious to start algebra or maybe pre-algebra and is bored to death with math in general. We use MUS and have accelerated very quickly starting with Beta. We are now 11 chapters in to Epsilon. For those not familiar with MUS this means she has mastered addition, subtraction, multiplication & long division. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and start pre-algebra and do it concurrently with Epsilon (fractions) and then Zeta (decimals). Either that or we could just do a lesson a day and finish Epsilon and Zeta in about 7 or 8 weeks and start in the fall. Or we could just skip the rest of Epsilon & Zeta and dive right in to pre-algebra covering concepts when needed. I'm always afraid of gaps which is probably an irrational fear since I rarely have to teach dd anything.

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DD had done basic math, including fractions and decimals, but hadn't done all the repetition that upper elementary/middle school math seems to focus on, if that makes any sense. I do think LoF was instrumental in both spurring her desire to accelerate and giving her the tools to do so, because it was JUST fractions and JUST Decimals and Percents, which were really about the only parts of basic K-8 arithmetic that she hadn't had yet. Once she had all the tools, she was able to figure out the applications for herself-so something like the area of a triangle wasn't a big deal.

 

I still expect gaps to become evident, and figure we'll fill them as needed.

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I'm wondering if I should go ahead and start pre-algebra and do it concurrently with Epsilon (fractions) and then Zeta (decimals). Either that or we could just do a lesson a day and finish Epsilon and Zeta in about 7 or 8 weeks and start in the fall. Or we could just skip the rest of Epsilon & Zeta and dive right in to pre-algebra covering concepts when needed..

 

:confused: Prealgebra IS arithmetic with fractions and decimals, isn't it?

 

After finishing arithmetic with integers, my kids learned fractions/decimals/percent and negative numbers, and then moved on to algebra.

I have never been able to understand what "pre-algebra" is actually supposed to be other than a repeat of arithmetic with (positive and negative) integers and fractions.

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I would finish Epsilon, then speed through the first part of Zeta (the easy part), only slowing down when she needs to. Then you could easily start a prealgebra program or use an algebra book like Jacobs that has a gentle lead in (the first 6 chapters are prealgebra).

 

My son used MUS as a review of arithmetic (he did Beta-Zeta in 6 months) in 4th grade. He then started Jacobs Algebra in 5th grade (and finished at the end of 6th) and was very successful.

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Thanks for the suggestions. I think we'll start moving more quickly through Epsilon and see how that goes. Dmetler also reminded me that we have LOF Fractions which we should probably start. DD likes to read things in order and wanted to finish the elementary series first but she could probably do that in a week if I allow time for it.

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MUS is not exactly known as a challenging program

 

True. But it is more solid than people give it credit for.

 

But I agree, for an accelerated child, MUS wouldn't be my first choice. The thing is, it is difficult to switch to another program midstream.

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Algebra is just another toolbox, and I wouldn't open that toolbox until a child has mastered arithmetic. I'd add the concepts of exponents, negative numbers, and least common factors to the standard list (4 operations, decimals, fractions) -- pre-algebra usually includes these and a few extras to grease the skids for algebra.

 

It's the same logic that you don't introduce calculus (yet another toolbox) until a child has mastered every possible thing they can do with the tools they already have with algebra. ;)

 

Instead of algebra, I'd move into more challenging problem solving such as Zacarro's Challenge math. That will encourage a deeper understanding.

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If she is bored, I will suggest get some word problems like SM CWP to spice it up rather than jump in algebra. MUS is not exactly known as a challenging program

 

I'm not using MUS, but what if it's used by a 6 or 7 year old who is almost at the algebra stage? I've been tempted a couple of times to get MUS Algebra, but I'm set on some other books for now.

 

Isn't it better to use MUS Algebra than AOPS for a 7-year old?

 

But I see your point of adding CWP.

 

acurtis, have you tried Hands on Equations? Or Algebra Lab Gear? Both are great for younger kids who want to learn algebra. We're using both (and, ahem, some other books) while still finishing up Grade 5/6 math.

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OP, how old is your dd?

 

Algebra is just another toolbox, and I wouldn't open that toolbox until a child has mastered arithmetic. I'd add the concepts of exponents, negative numbers, and least common factors to the standard list (4 operations, decimals, fractions) -- pre-algebra usually includes these and a few extras to grease the skids for algebra.
I tend to agree with this. I'm trying to remind myself of this now, as I eye other routes and feel a little daunted about taking ds9 through AoPS Prealg even though I know it is likely to be a fit for him in certain important ways.

 

It's the same logic that you don't introduce calculus (yet another toolbox) until a child has mastered every possible thing they can do with the tools they already have with algebra. ;)
This reminds me of something in RR's lecture (p. 6):

Next, solving hard problems is way more important than using more and more advanced tools. This is what the typical curriculum does -- it takes us through one-step problems with ever more advanced tools. But, they’re not seeing problems that are any harder. The problems on the BC calculus exam are no harder, no more in-depth than the problems they saw in prealgebra. They’re one step, just with a much more advanced piece of machinery. It’s far more important to learn how to take lots of different simple tools and put them in combination to solve a hard problem.

Edited by wapiti
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Did you finish all basic math first (i.e. addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, fractions, decimals) or did you just address any gaps as they came up? DD is anxious to start algebra or maybe pre-algebra and is bored to death with math in general.

Yes, we finished all of basic math. Before we began Hands-on-Equations and the Key to Alg books ds had mastered the four operations with positive and negative whole numbers, fractions, decimals, and percents and had an understanding of order of operations. However, ds was not usually bored- certainly not in any ongoing way. Maybe, she can move through the material more quickly?

 

OTOH- there were a few times that he really felt like he wanted to move on and I had to tell him that he needed to work with greater proficiency first or he would soon find himself needing to back up to practice this same material. So, I guess this comes down to going with your gut.

 

HTH, although I can't imagine that it did :001_unsure:-

Mandy

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We already to cwp and beast academy. BA doesn't isn't going to cover anything she doesn't already know but she likes it.

 

I know mus isn't the most challenging program out there but it is an efficient program to use for acceleration since it is mastery. Dd doesn't need tons of practice on a concept. We went through 20 lessons in Delta in about 2 weeks and then slowed down for the last 10 lessons.

 

She's had no problem going from mus to cwp or other programs when we've supplemented.

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I'm not using MUS, but what if it's used by a 6 or 7 year old who is almost at the algebra stage? I've been tempted a couple of times to get MUS Algebra, but I'm set on some other books for now.

 

Isn't it better to use MUS Algebra than AOPS for a 7-year old?

 

But I see your point of adding CWP.

 

acurtis, have you tried Hands on Equations? Or Algebra Lab Gear? Both are great for younger kids who want to learn algebra. We're using both (and, ahem, some other books) while still finishing up Grade 5/6 math.

 

I have looked at hands on equations a few times and my end up trying it. We did dragonbox on the iPad and she loved it. Mus has pre-algebra and algebra. I haven't decided if that is what we'll do first or switch programs. Dd is 7 and probably would already be finished with mus pre- algebra but I spent too long insisting she do every worksheet:glare: I was new to homeschooling and in denial about how advanced she is and how fast she could go.

 

One thing that I find to be positive about mus is the concept of algebra (problems like x+2=5) were introduced early on in the alpha level so to her variables are not a foreign or scary concept.

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If she is 7yo, I would recommend moving to AoPS at some point--perhaps their prealgebra would be good when she's done with MUS?

Do you mean done with mus through zeta (decimals) or algebra? I've been debating which pre-algebra to start with. She really likes Fred and Beast Academy but mus is straight-forward and I am able to easily determine if she "gets it". She does math puzzles, dragonbox, beast academy and LOF for fun in her free time but insists she really hates math. I think what she really hates ismath worksheets and moving too slowly.

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True. But it is more solid than people give it credit for.

 

But I agree, for an accelerated child, MUS wouldn't be my first choice. The thing is, it is difficult to switch to another program midstream.

 

am :bigear: to this thread ... just thought I'd mention, we've hopped [fairly] easily into Singapore 4a from MUS Delta/Epsilon (we were doing both). Button is moving pretty quickly through this -- he's 6, turns seven in two months -- and most of it is review, just some of the geometry is new-ish, and the format is unusual for him. I started 4a b/c he hadn't mastered long division when we began; otherwise, I'd have started 4b or 5a.

 

I did find an old thread where a poster -- she afterschools -- did Singapore year 6 with her second-grader, I gather mainly the text- and work- books, and then went back over the material using the 6 CWP and IP books; then moved the child into AoPS Algebra when he was 8. I don't think that Button will love AoPS algebra at 8 (though I could be wrong -- it's rather a ways off, in developmental time), so I am thinking of following her strategy with Singapore year 5 and then moving onto NEM but am not sure.

 

just some thoughts ...

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I did find an old thread where a poster -- she afterschools -- did Singapore year 6 with her second-grader, I gather mainly the text- and work- books, and then went back over the material using the 6 CWP and IP books; then moved the child into AoPS Algebra when he was 8. I don't think that Button will love AoPS algebra at 8 (though I could be wrong -- it's rather a ways off, in developmental time), so I am thinking of following her strategy with Singapore year 5 and then moving onto NEM but am not sure.

 

just some thoughts ...

 

One more thought to add to yours - the poster did that at a time when AoPS Prealgebra was not yet available. FWIW, AoPS Prealgebra can follow SM 5. At what age is a different question, but the book is an additional option, anyway, and a much easier jump by comparison to AoPS alg.

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One more thought to add to yours - the poster did that at a time when AoPS Prealgebra was not yet available. FWIW, AoPS Prealgebra can follow SM 5. At what age is a different question, but the book is an additional option, anyway, and a much easier jump by comparison to AoPS alg.

 

Thanks! I thought, for some reason, she had made the decision to not do the prealgebra but apparently was mistaken.

 

Also, my above wasn't meant to disagree with Kai at all -- I must say, curriculum-hopping has its challenges! and I bounce around btw. Singapore and MUS lately. MEP is so rich but so hard for me to accelerate with Button ...

 

would anyone suggest piggy-backing AoPS (pre- or plain algebra) onto NEM for children in the 7-8yo range?

 

ETA: It turns out that the poster I was thinking of actually did have AoPS prealgebra as an option -- here's one of her posts about why she chose SM6 "heavy", as she says, for her 7yo -- which is an interesting POV and has really influenced how I am weighing the options ...

Edited by serendipitous journey
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Do you mean done with mus through zeta (decimals) or algebra?

 

I mean after Zeta and before algebra. If you have a 7yo who is moving that quickly, AoPS prealgebra might be a more appropriate challenge level.

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Some great suggestions above. OP, what do you plan to do after algebra? Do you plan to move on to alg2/ geometry?

 

Why I'm asking is that with a younger child, you also want to think about the ability to show work. I didn't require my son to show all his steps when he started learning algebra BUT when he eventually learned to write all the steps down *himself* about a third of the way through Dolciani, he learned *so* much more. He could see connections all the more clearly. This skill is now playing a key role in his understanding of geometry.

 

Did we finish all of basic math? No. Did we work on the ability to show work step by step. A big Yes. And it's paying off big time. Just a thought!

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Did you finish all basic math first (i.e. addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, fractions, decimals) or did you just address any gaps as they came up? DD is anxious to start algebra or maybe pre-algebra and is bored to death with math in general. We use MUS and have accelerated very quickly starting with Beta. We are now 11 chapters in to Epsilon. For those not familiar with MUS this means she has mastered addition, subtraction, multiplication & long division. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and start pre-algebra and do it concurrently with Epsilon (fractions) and then Zeta (decimals). Either that or we could just do a lesson a day and finish Epsilon and Zeta in about 7 or 8 weeks and start in the fall. Or we could just skip the rest of Epsilon & Zeta and dive right in to pre-algebra covering concepts when needed. I'm always afraid of gaps which is probably an irrational fear since I rarely have to teach dd anything.

 

What we do, is to work through a Arithmetic program for a day or two days and some basic algebra for the rest. A finger in each pie, so to speak. ( Because my DD is the sort who always wants to know "what's next after this".)

 

I'm using a free Algebra book off the gutenberg site http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13309/13309-pdf.pdf

 

It's a very gentle introduction to Algebra and starts with constructing simple equations from word problems. My DD (new 7 yr old) has *not* mastered all of the arithmetic required for Algebra, and we fill in the gaps as we go. She also worked through half AOPS pre-A a couple of months ago.

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Some great suggestions above. OP, what do you plan to do after algebra? Do you plan to move on to alg2/ geometry?

 

Why I'm asking is that with a younger child, you also want to think about the ability to show work. I didn't require my son to show all his steps when he started learning algebra BUT when he eventually learned to write all the steps down *himself* about a third of the way through Dolciani, he learned *so* much more. He could see connections all the more clearly. This skill is now playing a key role in his understanding of geometry.

 

Did we finish all of basic math? No. Did we work on the ability to show work step by step. A big Yes. And it's paying off big time. Just a thought!

 

 

I have no idea what we'll do after algebra. Every time I make a plan we end up doing something drastically different 12 months later so I've learned to just go with the flow. My planning extends to what comes next and that's it. We might do more than one algebra concurrently. I've found the bouncing around keeps her interest. She really didn't like singapore textbooks but doesn't mind the cwp.

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Did you finish all basic math first (i.e. addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, fractions, decimals) or did you just address any gaps as they came up? DD is anxious to start algebra or maybe pre-algebra and is bored to death with math in general. We use MUS and have accelerated very quickly starting with Beta. We are now 11 chapters in to Epsilon. For those not familiar with MUS this means she has mastered addition, subtraction, multiplication & long division. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and start pre-algebra and do it concurrently with Epsilon (fractions) and then Zeta (decimals). Either that or we could just do a lesson a day and finish Epsilon and Zeta in about 7 or 8 weeks and start in the fall. Or we could just skip the rest of Epsilon & Zeta and dive right in to pre-algebra covering concepts when needed. I'm always afraid of gaps which is probably an irrational fear since I rarely have to teach dd anything.

 

Okay, after asking my questions in the thread am reading your OP closely ... it sounds like we've done something similar; Button worked with MUS until Delta/Epsilon (I started Epsilon concurrently with Delta when he had trouble with the mechanics of long division) and then it was spring of Math Chaos and now we're puttering along with Singapore mostly while I consolidate some writing skills.

 

At any rate, I wasn't happy with Epsilon's (MUS Fractions, for those following) treatment of topics, esp. the introduction of fraction division, so I paused it and began Key to Fractions. This has gone over pretty well in our household; we were doing roughly 1/2 the problems, 2 pages/day. So one option would be to start something the child is interested in and finish up fractions & decimals with the Key to ... series, which is easy to accelerate through -- very straightforward to skim things the child has mastered.

 

I had thought about doing this and then trying MUS' algebra, and may take that route; but I'm afraid that at the rate Button moves through MUS we'd hit calculus earlier than I'd like, and I'd prefer to do it later with a really thorough treatment ... so that's why I'm leaning toward the Singapore/AoPS route ...

 

You may be able to tell that I'm another one who is gap-wary :) ...

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I'm going to read that thread tomorrow when my brain is more awake but dd tool LOF fractions to bed to read tonight because she saw it on the counter....she may insist on moving quickly with that and then want the decimals book. I'll also look at the "Key to" series. I just won't tell dh since I already have 4 or 5 different curriculums:lol:

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I have used MUS' alg and geo as pre-alg and pre-geo w/all 5 of my older kids. We use Horizons for K-6, so I am completely unfamiliar w/MUS's elementary series.

 

Back when my oldest was ready for alg, available options were not as plentiful as today. He was ready for alg, but he was not ready for a high school textbook presentation. MUS worked well as a simple workbook approach, concrete introduction to alg. (so well that I have no plans on changing away from it w/my younger kids.)

 

Following MUS's alg program w/another more thorough program (I used Foersters w/all my older kids b/c I didn't know about AoPS) has provided an excellent foundation for upper level math for my kids. (the Foerster path is what our oldest, a chemE, followed). I have one that eventually switched to AoPS to finish out his math sequence through calculus (this ds wants to double major in physics and math) and I have one that is equally strong in math but is going to stick w/Foersters. (AoPS is a great math program, but its approach is not going to appeal to all students. We are also incredibly disappointed w/AoPS new classroom format. Their new challenge problem format removes the AoPS flavor that my ds loved and has replaced it w/more typical "plug in the right answer" classroom math. I am so glad our ds that breaths AoPS went through their classes prior to the changes. It changes the focus away from the thought processes to the answers.....but that is way more info than you need at this pt!!)

 

Anyway, I would personally not progress to alg until all elementary math skills are mastered. Fractions, decimals, percentages, and ratios are pretty foundational math principles that should be mastered prior to alg. MM has topical books that you might want to look into. They are cheap downloads (I think they use to be something like $5) and I personally think the instruction is better than LOF Fractions and Decimals.

 

Then, for kids that are young and simple workbook presentation vs. high school textbook is a consideration, MUS's alg and geo books are great for introduction. (but I personally would not count them as equivalent to alg and geo. Just good intros.)

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I have no idea what we'll do after algebra. Every time I make a plan we end up doing something drastically different 12 months later so I've learned to just go with the flow. My planning extends to what comes next and that's it. We might do more than one algebra concurrently. I've found the bouncing around keeps her interest. She really didn't like singapore textbooks but doesn't mind the cwp.

 

This is so familiar! :001_smile: We usually have nothing less than 3 math running concurrently. It's fun for the kids who want it. I think she will be fine. I just wanted to bring up that one more data point about being ready for the step-by-step working. It's not absolutely necessary of course (at least I don't think so for younger ages). But it's a good skill to develop.

 

I agree about what 8 says regarding MM. We used some MM concurrently with and also just before Dolciani to cover some bases. The kiddo had some significant gaps in percents (despite completing LOF DP) and also in ratios. But we didn't need to complete MM. We used just a few worksheets for practice.

 

Good luck!

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Thanks for all the input. Today's plan (which is always subject to change:tongue_smilie:) is to go through Epsilon & Zeta quickly and then start either aops pre-algebra or mus algebra.

 

I've decided we're going to watch a DVD lesson a day and do one page of practice and then move on to another lesson the next day instead of several days of practice. Since there is systematic review built in it will meet my need to be thorough but allow her to learn something new everyday to fight off the boredom. She's also going to mix in math puzzles, cwp, LOF fractions & beast academy a few times a week. We'll give it a shot and see how it goes. At that pace we should finish the rest if Epsilon and all of Zeta in two or three months (allowing for all our summer/travel interruptions). We can then start whatever program I decide to go with around October.

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would anyone suggest piggy-backing AoPS (pre- or plain algebra) onto NEM for children in the 7-8yo range?

 

ETA: It turns out that the poster I was thinking of actually did have AoPS prealgebra as an option -- here's one of her posts about why she chose SM6 "heavy", as she says, for her 7yo -- which is an interesting POV and has really influenced how I am weighing the options ...

 

Ok - I have a kid that started homeschooling at 2nd grade. We did SM 2-4 our first year of homeschooling (with online games and extra books). He could have tested out higher, but I did want him to go through level 2/3 too. We did SM 5-6 2nd year. 3rd year (when he would have been a 4th grader), we did NEM pre-alg/alg portions (AoPS pre-alg was not available). And this year we did the Alg 1 portions of AoPS Intro to Algebra. We will complete the Alg 2 portions this coming year. We still use computer games for drill.

 

I have no regrets about going through SM6B with my oldest. Many of the problems in SM6 and the extra books are deep problems that require multiple steps. I thought they were great set up for NEM and AoPS.

 

Using AoPS and NEM together would be overkill IMO. I did not like NEM as much as the elementary series. It's a great book and really probably as rigorous as AoPS IMO. BUT the text is not written to the student like AoPS. The text in the book is assuming a teacher is doing a lecture on the topic at hand. So I felt like I needed to be much more involved. The problem sets took some leaps occasionally I thought were not at all obvious. The AoPS books take leaps too, but they seem to be a more logical progression.

 

When we started AoPS, I did do a little hand holding but the 2nd half of the year my 5th grader was 90% (or more) independent. He's moving at a faster clip now that he has a groove going too.

 

This kid that understood conceptual pre-alg math by age 7 or 8. Last year he tested at the 11th grade level in math on an open ended achievement test after NEM. The things that kept me stalling while we were doing SM

 

1 - lack of patience

2- he didn't have the ability to write out a page full of math problems that another person could follow

3 - Low tolerance for frustration and being ok with being wrong

4 - speed in calculations.

5- organizational skills

 

We did a little playing around in some "easy" algebra books sooner because he wanted to, but it seemed like for the long term we really did want to complete a more rigorous curriculum.

 

Honestly, I'm glad my younger kid, who seems just as intuitively "mathy" as my older isn't racing through curriculum like he did and that will help buy us some time. I will say, I have every intention of going through SM 6B with her and moving into AoPS pre-alg. I have a math degree and am a little obsessed with math curriculum FTR. Anyway, since this hit many topics in our history, thought I'd throw in our experience. :001_smile:

Edited by kck
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Some great suggestions above. OP, what do you plan to do after algebra? Do you plan to move on to alg2/ geometry?

 

Why I'm asking is that with a younger child, you also want to think about the ability to show work. I didn't require my son to show all his steps when he started learning algebra BUT when he eventually learned to write all the steps down *himself* about a third of the way through Dolciani, he learned *so* much more. He could see connections all the more clearly. This skill is now playing a key role in his understanding of geometry.

 

Did we finish all of basic math? No. Did we work on the ability to show work step by step. A big Yes. And it's paying off big time. Just a thought!

 

That's one reason why I'm thinking we'll do "pre-algebra" and maybe "pre-geometry" (and maybe a couple more years of less formal math) with LoF and the Key To series, and let DD's writing skills and ability to write out steps mature before diving into AOPS and other more formal math classes. She's only 7, so even if we take the next 4 years or so on less formal versions of high school math, and then go back and start over with Algebra I, she'll STILL have 7 years for high school math before her 18th birthday. At this point, moving on is more an attempt to keep her interest and enthusiasm about math alive than that she's truly "Ready" for a high school class, because despite all the placement tests she's done, I don't think she is physically or emotionally ready for high school TEXTBOOKS and assignments yet!

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That's one reason why I'm thinking we'll do "pre-algebra" and maybe "pre-geometry" (and maybe a couple more years of less formal math) with LoF and the Key To series, and let DD's writing skills and ability to write out steps mature before diving into AOPS and other more formal math classes. She's only 7, so even if we take the next 4 years or so on less formal versions of high school math, and then go back and start over with Algebra I, she'll STILL have 7 years for high school math before her 18th birthday. At this point, moving on is more an attempt to keep her interest and enthusiasm about math alive than that she's truly "Ready" for a high school class, because despite all the placement tests she's done, I don't think she is physically or emotionally ready for high school TEXTBOOKS and assignments yet!

 

We seem to be coming from a similar place. I am not in a hurry but I'm finding when dd is bored she hates math and I really don't want to foster that hate by stretching it out more than she needs to. Once we get past fractions and decimals using several programs concurrently and mixing in some puzzles/games should slow us down while still keeping it interesting.

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That's one reason why I'm thinking we'll do "pre-algebra" and maybe "pre-geometry" (and maybe a couple more years of less formal math) with LoF and the Key To series, and let DD's writing skills and ability to write out steps mature before diving into AOPS and other more formal math classes. She's only 7, so even if we take the next 4 years or so on less formal versions of high school math, and then go back and start over with Algebra I, she'll STILL have 7 years for high school math before her 18th birthday. At this point, moving on is more an attempt to keep her interest and enthusiasm about math alive than that she's truly "Ready" for a high school class, because despite all the placement tests she's done, I don't think she is physically or emotionally ready for high school TEXTBOOKS and assignments yet!

 

That's what we're planning to do - many supplements and mostly pre-high school text materials (e.g. HOE, Lab Gear). Once we're done with SM/MM Grade 6, I'm planning to expand upon topics, which we seem to be doing now, and explore concepts that are not found in SM/MM. I like DD to practice more multi-level word problems, but she doesn't seem quite ready for this yet. I can see her limits with CWP but not with SM or MM, which means I need to focus more on verbal problems. Maybe that's for another thread - all the books that are available for more complicated word problems.

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That's what we're planning to do - many supplements and mostly pre-high school text materials (e.g. HOE, Lab Gear). Once we're done with SM/MM Grade 6, I'm planning to expand upon topics, which we seem to be doing now, and explore concepts that are not found in SM/MM. I like DD to practice more multi-level word problems, but she doesn't seem quite ready for this yet. I can see her limits with CWP but not with SM or MM, which means I need to focus more on verbal problems. Maybe that's for another thread - all the books that are available for more complicated word problems.

 

do you already have the MOEMS books?

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ETA: It turns out that the poster I was thinking of actually did have AoPS prealgebra as an option -- here's one of her posts about why she chose SM6 "heavy", as she says, for her 7yo -- which is an interesting POV and has really influenced how I am weighing the options ...

Lol.. That is my post...

 

Yes, I do have the Aops pre A. And at the time chose stick with SM with all supplements. For 2 reason. 1. SM worked for us. DS really thrive in the program. 2. when compare SM to AOPS the topics covered in both, I found SM just as challenging if not more. Consider DS only was 7, we. Think SM is a better choice. We did have to circle back to cover few topic I think AOPS did better, radical number and exponent. And then we move on AOPS Algebra.

 

I am not against having a young kid start algebra. Like I said in other post, DS did key to algebra at the same time with no problem. If a kid is ready, he/she is ready. It is how u define ready. For me, coming from a Asian country, I feel DS have to at least to be where I was when I was in 6th grade to start a real algebra.( key to not quite count) And SM 6B with all sullpement feel right for us

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do you already have the MOEMS books?

 

I remember reading a couple of your posts on which books to get. I have Creative Problem Solving in School Mathematics by Dr. George Lenchner.

 

I'm waiting for BA 3c so that I can get free shipping when I order AOPS Pre-A and Math Olympiad Contest Problems: Volume 2. Was it this volume that you thought was more organized according to grade level? I thought that another poster indicated Volume 1 was not needed. Is that correct?

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I remember reading a couple of your posts on which books to get. I have Creative Problem Solving in School Mathematics by Dr. George Lenchner.

 

I'm waiting for BA 3c so that I can get free shipping when I order AOPS Pre-A and Math Olympiad Contest Problems: Volume 2. Was it this volume that you thought was more organized according to grade level? I thought that another poster indicated Volume 1 was not needed. Is that correct?

 

 

yes, that's correct! Vol 2 has, I think, 50 Olympiads for elementary level (gr 4-6, 5 questions each) and then another section for middle school level. They are mixed within the individual Olympiads in Vol 1 - I guess that's how they used to run the test.

 

I have the same shipping plan as you, lol. I don't "need" BA 3C, but if I'm ordering another volume of Pre-A anyway for ds's classroom, I might as well get the free shipping. I only have 3 more kids who could use BA at some point :tongue_smilie:. It might not arrive in time for when I need to order Pre-A. I have to have my extra copy of Pre-A within 4 weeks (knock on wood that the teacher is still in favor of our plan). eta, rats, it's only one set of BA, so I probably won't have enough for free shipping. Oh well.

Edited by wapiti
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yes, that's correct! Vol 2 has, I think, 50 Olympiads for elementary level (gr 4-6, 5 questions each) and then another section for middle school level. They are mixed within the individual Olympiads in Vol 1 - I guess that's how they used to run the test.

 

I have the same shipping plan as you, lol. I don't "need" BA 3C, but if I'm ordering another volume of Pre-A anyway for ds's classroom, I might as well get the free shipping. I only have 3 more kids who could use BA at some point :tongue_smilie:. It might not arrive in time for when I need to order Pre-A. I have to have my extra copy of Pre-A within 4 weeks (knock on wood that the teacher is still in favor of our plan). eta, rats, it's only one set of BA, so I probably won't have enough for free shipping. Oh well.

 

The last time I checked BA's Facebook account, which was a few days ago, I think it indicated 3-4 weeks for printing. :001_huh:

 

You could get extra workbooks for 3A and 3B....

 

I should have ordered Pre-A in March, so it's been a long 4 months, probably 5 months by the time I get my hands on it.

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We didn't do math today because dd had day camp at the homeschool store near us. I never leave the homeschool store without purchasing something:001_huh:. Today it was a skeleton game and an algebra math puzzle book. I figured we would add it in to the rotation.

 

After dinner we played the skeleton game and then dd said let's try that puzzle book. She then proceeded to work on this for 20 minutes straight while giggling and having a great time. One time she was daydreaming and I said focus. She said, "mom, please don't say 'focus', it makes this sound like lesson time and lesson time isn't fun" I shut up and she cheerfully finished the rest of the page and asked if she could do some more pages tomorrow.

 

I attached a picture because this is a pretty cool workbook. DD normally doesn't love math but apparently the picture at the top makes it all worth the effort. It's called Algebra Antics: Mindware's Best Number Problems by Evelyn & Susan Christensen.

 

ETA: I can't seem to get the picture to work...will try again

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Ok - I have a kid that started homeschooling at 2nd grade. ...

Using AoPS and NEM together would be overkill IMO. I did not like NEM as much as the elementary series. It's a great book and really probably as rigorous as AoPS IMO. BUT the text is not written to the student like AoPS. The text in the book is assuming a teacher is doing a lecture on the topic at hand. So I felt like I needed to be much more involved. The problem sets took some leaps occasionally I thought were not at all obvious. The AoPS books take leaps too, but they seem to be a more logical progression.

 

... I will say, I have every intention of going through SM 6B with her and moving into AoPS pre-alg. I have a math degree and am a little obsessed with math curriculum FTR. Anyway, since this hit many topics in our history, thought I'd throw in our experience. :001_smile:

 

Thanks for this! Is very, very helpful. :)

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RE negative numbers above: we are enjoying them here; but haven't gotten the intuition down of neg * neg = pos.

 

At any rate, contributing the stack of resources for doing algebra-level work with younger ones, nmoira posted this really neat list of things used in her "great algebra put-off"; and also quark consolidated a bunch of suggestions on one thread into this post on non-traditional/living math resources. Just in case anybody's spouse was accusing them of not having enough math curricula lying about ...

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It's really weird. I can think of several topics that weren't ever covered in SM up to 5B (US edition), but it was the negative numbers we had to cover to start A1. The other topics not covered somehow made sense, but not the negative numbers.

 

It _is_ odd: I think they ought to be introduced with subtraction. The reason we have talked about them at all is that I couldn't bring myself to tell Button that, for example, "you can't subtract 5 from 2". Instead if he fails to regroup, I point out that we can't subtract 5 from 2 without going negative, and then I make noises about what a pain in the tooshie it is to keep track of all the negatives in a big subtraction problem ...

 

ETA: I have to sign off and go clean floors, but it is so super neat to bounce posts with you! it's like you're right next door! want some tea???? :)

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I got the algebra readiness book grade 2 from Scholastic. It was pretty simple for dd. We are doing RS C and MEP 2. MEP has algebraic thinking problems which do challenge dd. And RS has a whole series of geometry problems that aren't in any other program, otherwise I would drop it in favor of MEP only.

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But by SPM 5 or 6 I was showing him bits of algebra he could use with the challenging word problems. He still did bar diagrams when they were more appropriate, or to set up problems that he then switched to algebraic equations... it was another tool in his toolbox.

 

From there we went to NEM 1-3 (Algebra parts first, then Geometry), did some Statistics, and then moved to AoPS.

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RE negative numbers above: we are enjoying them here; but haven't gotten the intuition down of neg * neg = pos.

 

At any rate, contributing the stack of resources for doing algebra-level work with younger ones, nmoira posted this really neat list of things used in her "great algebra put-off"; and also quark consolidated a bunch of suggestions on one thread into this post on non-traditional/living math resources. Just in case anybody's spouse was accusing them of not having enough math curricula lying about ...

 

 

Thanks for the links. I am going to check some additional things out. Between the accelerated pace and the need to fight off boredom math curriculum is definately what we have the most of at our house.

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My plan is to finish basic math. Algebra requires those skills to be solid. I don't want my son to have to think about how to divide fractions or something foundational like that.

 

We plan to go through Singapore 5B, then attempt AoPS Prealgebra. If it's not a good fit yet, we'll run through MM6 (since I have it) and then do Jacobs Algebra. I think Jacobs would work well for my son, as it has some humor in it.

 

I have Dolciani Prealgebra, but I think my son is not ready for that dry a presentation. I also have Foerster's Algebra, and the word problems tickle me (Ă¢â‚¬ Olivia, Newt, and John....Ă¢â‚¬), but I think Jacobs would be a better fit for a younger student.

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I had to address negative numbers. Other than that, no not really. I spent about a week on negative numbers.

 

One thing I like about the little algebra puzzle book I mentioned earlier in the thread is that it has the puzzles that don't use negative numbers marked with asterisks so you can do them first. Dragonbox introduced dd to the concept so she understand addition/subtraction but we haven't covered multiplication of negatives yet. I figure we'll do the other puzzles first and then cover that.

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My plan is to finish basic math. Algebra requires those skills to be solid. I don't want my son to have to think about how to divide fractions or something foundational like that.

 

We plan to go through Singapore 5B, then attempt AoPS Prealgebra. If it's not a good fit yet, we'll run through MM6 (since I have it) and then do Jacobs Algebra. I think Jacobs would work well for my son, as it has some humor in it.

 

I have Dolciani Prealgebra, but I think my son is not ready for that dry a presentation. I also have Foerster's Algebra, and the word problems tickle me (Ă¢â‚¬ Olivia, Newt, and John....Ă¢â‚¬), but I think Jacobs would be a better fit for a younger student.

 

This is us. I had hoped to be finished with mm5b a this poin, but with the move he still has a couple more sections. We will do aops and mm6 simultaneously for gaps. I have dolciani also, and I actually think my son would like it, so it is our back up math.

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You can ABSOLUTELY start algebra without a firm handle (if any) on decimals and fractions.

 

You should be pushing forward and spiraling back at all times anyway.

 

(My son started algebra at 5....and finished at 6.5.)

 

:iagree::iagree: completely.

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