Jayne J Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Ds, age 6, is a wonderful, bright and loving boy (yeah, I'm his mom, so what?:lol:) But, he does seem to be having trouble figuring out the whole socialization thing. He doesn't understand how to meet people, and hangs around the edges of all the events and activities we go to, looking uncomfortable. Now, his sister, 4, is Little Miss Personality, and makes devotees everywhere we go, so I am pretty sure it is nature and not nurture we are dealing with here. My question is for those who have shy/introverted children--how do you help them develop the tools they need to be able to participate in groups etc? I'm not interested in making him more outgoing or changing his basic personality, but in teaching him methods for meeting people that work. He has a tendency to either avoid or attempt to control new people, which does not set him up to be well liked, which feeds his insecurity and so on. He has attended 3 years of library story time,1 1/2 years of tumbling classes, 2 years of Kindermusik, and is currently in T-ball (which he hates) and I still have to coach him on asking people their names and saying hello etc. He stands around waiting to be invited to play, and never takes the initiative to ask others to play with him. It breaks my heart to see him lonely and doubting, but I don't know what, if anything, I can/should do to help him. Also, he freezes up and gets surly whenever he feels "on the spot" which I know is worry/insecurity, but don't know how to help him work through. I don't want him to go through life always afraid to try new things or meet new people for fear of failure! Please let me know what you think, or what you have done if you've faced this issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Role play A LOT at home. It worked wonders for our family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon C Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I don't have any advice but he sounds EXACTLY like my dd! She does best when we invite people into our home. It makes her feel more secure. She does have that tendency though to want to organize and dominate the whole playdate once she gets a friend over. She won't go up to kids at a playground and if they come up to her, she shuts down. She will never look people in the eye when they introduce themselves. I think it is very much her nature to be shy though--she did 4 years of preschool, dance, gymnastics, music class and we are very involved in Sunday school and Awana. I don't know if she gets nervous around strangers or what. I have tried to role play, but she freezes up in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Shannon--how do you find people for your daughter to have over? Do you "make friends" for her? Or are they neighborhood kids or what? We have one neighbor child my son likes, but other than that, it is so difficult to even find people he wants to have over! And if they don't want to do what he wants to, he doesn't know how to cope, and decides they aren't friends anymore. When your daughter first joined all the activities, did she have a hard time getting to know the other kids? Does she know them now, or just go to do the activities and go home? We end up just doing whatever it is we are there for and that's it. After 1 1/2 years in tumbling, he still didn't know the names of the kids in class with him (there was some turnover, but not all of the kids changed)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherInWI Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Role playing may help, but so may relaxing and not worrying about it. One of my children is naturally outgoing, but my other one tended toward extreme shyness. I was worried (and grateful that my other one was very social so that people wouldn't claim "it's because you homeschool"). As it turned out, at about the age of eight, the shyness began to disappear and now, at ten, you'd never guess it had ever been a problem. My mother was the wise person who told me not to worry. She, too, had been a shy child who developed into a normally social adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenaj Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 As it turned out, at about the age of eight, the shyness began to disappear and now, at ten, you'd never guess it had ever been a problem. Six is so young. I have a kidlet who is very shy, sounds a lot like your little guy and this year (turning 8 this summer) is the first year I've seen him jumping into things on his own. He chose to attend Awana at a church where he knows only one other child. He's playing baseball and after two years of much shyness, I've seen him come out of his shell with his teammates. I was floored a few weeks ago when he jumped out of our van at baseball practice, walked over to a different team and greeted a previous coach, completely on his own. I would never had dreamed that he would change this much. He's always going to have a shy personality, but I can see that he's going to be able to function in a normal way. I honestly think that homeschooling solves the problem rather than causing it. I was a painfully shy child and school just made the situation worse. It was honestly my Jr. year in College before I had the confidence to speak to peers (other than a few close friends). I think that "protecting" (that might not be quite the right word) the little ones from excessive social encounters before they are ready, causes their self-confidence to soar. HTH, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 He has attended 3 years of library story time,1 1/2 years of tumbling classes, 2 years of Kindermusik, and is currently in T-ball (which he hates) This sounds so stressful for a child who is shy. Why are you putting him in all these activities? It's obvious from your post that he feels like an outsider, so continuing to sign him up for things like this will probably only make matters worse. It sounds like your little boy just needs some friends, not "social activities." It can be very hard for a homeschool mom to find friends for her kids, but there are some ways to go about it. You could run an ad in a local homeschool newsletter and set up a playgroup that will meet each week, for example (you could do a Lego club, or any number of themes if you wanted to go that route). You could look for a co-op that meets weekly and invite kids from that group over each week. What your son needs is *unstructured* time with a friend just to hang out. Later he can do group sports, etc. when he's got friend who are also signing up. Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen in PA Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 My kids are the exact opposite, but I saw kids like this all the time when I was a classroom teacher. Something that often works is to revisist the idea of parallel play, the sort children tend to do when they are younger, such as playing the same thing side by side without necessarily interacting. Lots of children move past that stage ready to do lots of team and group activities -- but your son sounds like one who doesn't feel comfortable with that yet. And that is ok! He might do better trying out some one-on-one activities that don't require a lot of conversation until he has warmed up to the other child. Maybe a playdate to sit and work on Lego creations, play with cars, build with blocks, work on unstructured art, etc. The idea would be that the children could work independently until they feel comfortable enough to strike up a conversation or agree to work together. Many shy children gain social confidence very gradually through repeated opportunities to meet others in low-key settings, and will eventually use that confidence as a springboard to make the first move in more intense settings. Another idea is to make introductions that show him immediately what he has in common with another child ("This is Pete. He's also six and loves Encyclopedia Brown and fishing."). That provides him with some building blocks to start a conversation, and also gives the other child some information about your son that he can elaborate on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 You may want to check out The Unwritten Rules of Friendship from the library. It's got some great tips on coaching kids in social situations. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 This sounds so stressful for a child who is shy. Why are you putting him in all these activities? It's obvious from your post that he feels like an outsider, so continuing to sign him up for things like this will probably only make matters worse. Ria Ria-- Up until this last activity (t-ball) he was young enough that his behavior didn't seem different from that of the other kids--storytime, Kindermusik, and tumbling were all from about age 2 to 4 or so. We have removed him from some activities he did not enjoy (AWANA) and only signed him up for t-ball at his request. I think he did not realize how many other kids would be there. It is really this current concern that precipitated my question. We are planning to pull him from t-ball, but I wondered if I could begin helping him learn how to become more comfortable with new kids. I thank all posters for bolstering my mother's instinct--I honestly expected to hear at least a few "teach him to suck it up" type responses, and am so comforted to hear that other similar children have "outgrown" this problem. It is always good to get a little perspective, and remember how these issues, which can seem so big, so overwhelmingly urgent, can often just be outwaited.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I would concentrate on one on one friendships and yes, you may have to go looking for "prospects" to bring over and "audition" for possible friendships. And the role playing and coaching are excellent tools as well. And keep playdates very short at first so he is left wanting to do it again soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2att Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I honestly think that homeschooling solves the problem rather than causing it. I was a painfully shy child and school just made the situation worse. It was honestly my Jr. year in College before I had the confidence to speak to peers (other than a few close friends). I think that "protecting" (that might not be quite the right word) the little ones from excessive social encounters before they are ready, causes their self-confidence to soar. ITA with this. My middle child is my extremely introverted one, and I am so grateful that we are able to homeschool him. Five and six were especially difficult--he would startle and pull away if someone else gave him a pat on the back, and he actually would hide under the table at things like homeschool co-op to get away from all the people. There's no way he could have handled group sports at that age, or many of the other activities the OP's son is involved in. Mine will be nine this summer, and things are soooo much better. He does classes at co-op now, manages to communicate with adults and answer their questions instead of hiding from them, and even plays soccer. There have been times in his life when I actually was worried about how he was going to be able to cope as an adult, but now I see that he just needed a little more time, and he is coming around quite nicely. He'll never be outgoing and will likely always prefer being alone to being in a huge crowd of people, but I appreciate the fact that homeschooling has allowed him the time necessary to get comfortable with who he is rather than forcing him into social situations that he's not ready for and would have difficultly with (like a typical classroom!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ria-- Up until this last activity (t-ball) he was young enough that his behavior didn't seem different from that of the other kids--storytime, Kindermusik, and tumbling were all from about age 2 to 4 or so. We have removed him from some activities he did not enjoy (AWANA) and only signed him up for t-ball at his request. I think he did not realize how many other kids would be there. It is really this current concern that precipitated my question. We are planning to pull him from t-ball, but I wondered if I could begin helping him learn how to become more comfortable with new kids. I thank all posters for bolstering my mother's instinct--I honestly expected to hear at least a few "teach him to suck it up" type responses, and am so comforted to hear that other similar children have "outgrown" this problem. It is always good to get a little perspective, and remember how these issues, which can seem so big, so overwhelmingly urgent, can often just be outwaited.:001_smile: Sometimes sports can be more intimidating for some reason. Poor little guy. It's hard, isn't it? You want them to be happy and have fun, and just never expect it when they don't. Smaller groups and one-on-one will be easier for him for a while, and maybe Awana when he's a little older and less aware of the huge numbers of other kids. Thank goodness he's got a mom who cares and notices his feelings...I have no doubt that he'll be fine because of that! Good luck. Maybe this summer will be a good time for him to just play with some other little guys. Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 You may want to check out The Unwritten Rules of Friendship from the library. It's got some great tips on coaching kids in social situations. Cat Thank you for recommending this book! I read it on my vacation and it was very helpful for me to see how kids might view my son and why he has a hard time in group situations. Hopefully doing the exercises in the book will help him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristusG Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 This sounds just like my 5 year old daughter. She is EXTREMELY shy and quiet. She wont talk to Sunday School teachers, coaches, or anyone. She will answer them with a head shake or nod. She has no friends except her cousin around her age, which we only see on a monthly basis. Her little sister is her best friend, which is completely okay (I even encourage it)....but I do wish she were able to interact with children outside of the family. Even if only one or two. My daughter is in AWANA, Sunday School, she's taken dance class, she's played three seasons of soccer, we attend storytime at the library, etc. She just will not talk to a single child, even if they approach her first. I do not mind her being shy, I'm very shy myself, but I do wish she would interact with other kids a bit. I do not know how to help her in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Activities like story time or classes can be difficult situations for making friends. I would reccomend trying to meet other hsers in the area and seeing if there are any other quiet type boys with similiar interests. Then I would try to arrange an outing that doesn't require them to play together, but where they can if they want to. Places like the beach, a park, or even outside at your own house might be good. Not too many distractions are helpful as well. For some time he may need you nearby to help and model ways to interact with other kids. It may be helpful if you meet another mom whose parenting style is similiar so that she could be understanding of the situation. I wouldn't worry too much about this at this age. Kids can change so much. Also, I think as he grows and develops more self confidence some of this may change as well. Good luck. woolybear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 A few things: If your son is shy or slow to warm up most of the social (group) activities that typical homeschoolers are involved in make it difficult for this personality type to make friends. There just isn't enough time for kids like this to warm up and start interacting. This is where a situation like school, with its long hours day after day, will actually help with socialization (I'm NOT advocating putting him in school). I found (when my slow to warm up son was younger) that the best activities were things that involved the same kids every time for more than an hour at a time and that met over the course of many months (like a whole school year). For us, it was classes at our homeschool support program, but something like cub scouts might work too. The other thing that struck me about your post was that you said that he tried to control the other kids. This is common behavior for kids who, for whatever reason, don't understand or have a hard time following the social rules of childhood. It can be a sign of things like an auditory/other sensory processing disorder or autism/Asperger's but not necessarily. And it doesn't mean that he will be like this his whole life! My son was similar at age 6 but now, at age 13, is still reserved but able to make friends fairly easily. One thing that can help is to have playdates with kids in the groups he is attending. Make sure at first that they have something specific to do that doesn't involve much social interaction, like going to a movie, and the time is fairly short. The next time have them do some task together, like baking cookies. Maybe the next time try a bit less structure but still have a plan with your son for things they can do ("We can ride bikes and play with Legos" or whatever). Having a playdate outside of a group activity will make him feel (and the other kid(s) feel) more bonded during the activity. There's a book called Good Friends Are Hard to Find that gives a lot of good advice about this type of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I would concentrate on one on one friendships and yes, you may have to go looking for "prospects" to bring over and "audition" for possible friendships. And the role playing and coaching are excellent tools as well. And keep playdates very short at first so he is left wanting to do it again soon. :iagree: I also agree to give him a chance to grow a bit too. I have one Very shy DD. Even at 11 she'd prefer not to talk, but to her close friends (only 3 in the whole world! and one of the 3 lives out of town) she is her little ole self. To others, hardly speaks! People now call her "Serious" instead of "shy" (evolution?!?!), which is funny cuz she's the same. I would make sure you require certain things, like ordering food when out, start with allowing him to choose his drink, but you order the food. Work your way up. Teach him telephone manners and after practice, let him answer the phone (you're right there), just to practice talking to others. In truth, be careful with those auditions. The worst thing would be to have him around little brats! That'll only encourage him to stay inward! Best wishes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Thank you all again for so much advice and comiseration/sympathy. We eventually pulled him out of T-ball (taking a lot of flack from the Grandparents who tend to be "man-up" types). I've gotten in touch with an old "mommy friend" whose son my son liked to play with. We'd drifted in different directions due to personality differences (between we mommies I mean), but I thought I'd give it a try again. The boys hit it off pretty well and we've had several play dates. I think it helped that he already knew the boy, even if it was a few years since they'd seen each other. I plan to look into the books mentioned in the thread and try to incorporate them into our "school", so they feel more matter of course than "something is wrong and we need to fix it." Thanks for the reccomendations! I am also pondering starting a homeschool art group for my ds. He loves to make art, and I have the Artistic Pursuits program to use for him this year. I thought that maybe finding a few hs kids his age, with similar interests to do the program with might help him branch out a bit. I'm just a bit nervous that we'll end up with another t-ball situation where he dislikes it and we've already made a commitment to other hs kids. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 My ds is the same way. He was evaluated for asperger's and had some, not all of criteria. Therefore, he does not have a diagnosis. We do every activity known to man:tongue_smilie:. I have done library activites, swimming, soccer, karate, homeschool co-op, boy scouts, and play dates. We do alot of role playing with him and encouragement. I also found these social skills dvds useful. They show how to carry on a conversation and get along in various situations. They have them taylored to different age groups and situations as well: http://www.teach2talk.com/teach2talk-social-skills-series.html http://www.modelmekids.com/ My ds has enjoyed these very much:). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Oh, and I forgot to add this--ds is generally fine when talking to adults, even ones he doesn't know. Recently, at a restaurant he told the waiter his name, his sisters names, my name name and his fathers as well, along with our ages (!!) and the fact that it was just his birthday, but his sisters birthday wasn't til next month, and on and on and on. At church our pastor (who is new to our church and has only done 2 children's messages so far) has already learned not to ask rhetorical questions, because ds and dd will answer him at length. He talks to the mailcarrier and everyone who walks by the house (and we are talking with him about strangers etc, so don't worry!) It is just kids that he has a hard time with. Is yours like that? What do you make of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 It is just kids that he has a hard time with. Is yours like that? What do you make of it? My son is exactly like that. ;) I thought of his ability to have a conversation endearing and a wonderful quality. BUT, the book pointed out that when a child is monologuing like that, other kids don't appreciate it. It showed me that his long winded monologues leave the other kids bewildered, confused and wanting to talk themselves. :D The activity suggested for that is to compare a conversation to a ping pong game. If one person hogs the ball, it is not fun. It suggests actually getting a ball and tossing it back and forth as you talk. We are going to wad up paper and do it at the dinner table, as he tends to dominate the whole dinner table conversation too. It also explains that the kids need to think about their audience and what they would like to hear. While grand parents might want to hear every detail about a game he played with his Play Mobile, friends can only handle the 1 most exciting part. (10 minute story vs 1 minute story) The other issue that I did not realize was an issue until I read the book was that he does not know when he is asking or giving too much personal information. I can see from a child's point of view that some of my son's questions and details, would be like the woman you meet in the produce isle that tells you every detail about life . . . typically you run away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 So, when you implement these new tools with your child, how do you introduce the whole idea? I mean, "Son, nobody likes you and I think we need to work on your socialization skills, so here, catch this ball," seems a bit blunt :D OK, I'm being a little silly, but really, how do you introduce the idea without reinforcing the "scary" or "inept" factors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 "Socialization" will not help him develop the skills he needs, or at least, the ones he *really* needs. Maturity, instruction/demonstration at home, encouragement to behave properly in public, and so on are probably better. (And you might note that it's possible that the server at the restaurant didn't really have time to listen while your ds told him all those family details but didn't want to hurt your ds's feelings and lose a tip, lol.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 So, when you implement these new tools with your child, how do you introduce the whole idea? I mean, "Son, nobody likes you and I think we need to work on your socialization skills, so here, catch this ball," seems a bit blunt :D OK, I'm being a little silly, but really, how do you introduce the idea without reinforcing the "scary" or "inept" factors? :lol: This concern is exactly why I haven't done anything about his excessive talking before now. I didn't want to say, "You talk to much," or "They don't care what you have to say." When I read the book we were on our way to a large family reunion, so at dinner the night before, I brought up that we would be meeting family members that we had not seen in years and asked all 4 of the kids how to start a conversation, what to talk about and I transitioned into some of the unwritten rules in the book. (My son said a good way to start a conversation was to tell someone his phone number and ask theirs so I told him that was a little too much personal information for a first conversation.) The next day we were visiting a neighbor of my MIL, that we had never met and he asked for a tour of her house. She told him he was free to walk around and check out the downstairs. After he did that, he said, "But what I REALLY wanted to see was your upstairs." :blushing: So, when we got in the car I reminded him of our conversation about asking for too much personal information. I hope that helps explain how to incorporate it a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 By urpedonmommy So, when you implement these new tools with your child, how do you introduce the whole idea? I mean, "Son, nobody likes you and I think we need to work on your socialization skills, so here, catch this ball," seems a bit blunt :D OK, I'm being a little silly, but really, how do you introduce the idea without reinforcing the "scary" or "inept" factors? When I introduced the social skills dvds and role playing, I just related how both myself and dh were also shy and had trouble carrying on conversations or at times that we could go on and on and on when we were excited about a topic.:) I have always told him that he is not the only kid who was ever shy or had to learn some conversation skills like his parents, grandparents, etc. My ds can go on and on as well and is like the little professor;). He is a sweet little boy.:001_wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 P.S. I really recommend the social skills dvds from my previous post since they are useful for any kid that is shy or has trouble with conversations or other scenarios. All of the scenarios have actual kids and they point out gestures, facial expressions, cues that other kids are bored, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Sounds a lot like my oldest. The thing that works the best for him is one on one or small group playdates with kids he likes. We've more or less given up on homeschool group parkdays because he just plays with his brother and ignores the other kids. Or gets mad when his brother plays with the other kids and he has nothing to do. The trick, of course, is finding kids for him to play with; it gets exhausting having to play matchmaker for him all the time. But I did for a long time, and the effort's been worth it--he has a few close friends now with whom he plays beautifully. The other thing that helps is finding small group activities that he really enjoys and that require that he interact with other kids but give him some structure about how he does it. Last year we started doing Odyssey of the Mind--a creative problem solving competition type thing--and he did great. His team was a group of 6 kids about his age, and he wasn't the tiniest bit shy with them. I've noticed that I tend to clam up and feel reserved and insecure in groups bigger than 7 or 8, and it seems to hold true for Ari, too. Another thing--5 and 6 was height of Ari's shyness and social anxiety. I'm not sure if it was just age or if other factors came into play, but he's really started to blossom socially since he turned 7. So being patient and trying not to worry overmuch (easier said than done, I know!) is something I can recommend having BTDT, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 If you want to try a hs art group, why don't you do it on a trial basis? Perhaps arrange for two get togethers to start and then say you'll see how it goes? Woolybear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moni Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 role play at home unstructured supervised one-on-one play or supervised homeschool parkdays. Shadow your child. Verbally describe the dynamics going on as the play unfolds. Don't sign up for group activities. (gymn, etc) for Learning this skill :seeya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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