Is this they way children act within your homeschool group?

[gevs4him]

We have been attending a co-op for the past 3 months - there is a now 7 yr. old boy who is mean and picks on our son - he even goes as far as getting the other boys to not play with our son. I have spoke with the other mothers about this and they assure me that they are speaking with their sons on keeping their hands to themselves and no name calling. But today when we attended the little boys B-day party at Bonkers the B-day boy which is the boy who doesn't want the other boys to befriend our son punched our son in the mouth and nose - we have told our son no hitting and to come tell us. The mother did make her son apologize but then her son lead the other boys in a wild game of keep away from my son - don't play with him. Which had our son trying to run and keep up then he stood up and popped his head real hard on one of the bars put a cut in the top of his head fell back on his seat and cried. My husband watched all of this and said he hit the bar real hard. And the boys were being real mean to our son. Our son is not a small child but he is a very sweet loving boy. We have always told him to do unto others as you would want them to do to you. We also realize that our son has not played with a lot of children his age. Our daughter is 18 and we are older parents 45 and 46. We do have pay dates with mostly girls because that is what God has given to our friends. And our church does not always have any children but him. ( we have been praying about this too) So he has not had a lot of contact with boys his age. The mothers today told me before this happened that boys just don't keep their hands to themselves and that they play ruff. But my husband feels that they are just mean and out of control. He said he had 3 brothers who would have never been aloud to act in such a manner. Are we overprotective or out of touch with the way 5,6,&7 yr. old boys act now days? So we are at loss of what to do - any suggestions??? Would be helpful.

Blessings

Lisa

[Snickerdoodle]

Unfortunately when you get a large group of boys that age together with parents who are not paying attention these things tend to happen.

 

I would tell my son though, if someone hit him that he definitely has the right to defend himself.

 

Although I consider myself a pretty hands-off parent, when there are groups of kids, I always keep an eye because these things get out of hand pretty quickly.

[Night Elf]

Unfortunately, being homeschoolers does not automatically make children behave. I had that problem in one homeschool group and left because of it. The mother had 4 boys and was so used to them fighting all the time that she said "it was the way of boys" and even went so far as to tell me that her sons said my son was a sissy and she had to agree. One son slapped my son in the face and I saw it happen. The mom tried to excuse it as boy behavior and that her son maybe didn't understand what Jeffrey was saying because the boy was deaf in one ear. That family was the deciding factor if we would attend an activity or not. No one was willing to stand up to her so they let me leave instead of asking her to leave. That really ticked me off.

[Julie in Austin]

My boys are 4, 7, and 11. They sometimes do the kinds of behavior that you described BUT they get a HUGE crackdown from me when it happens and then if it continues, we leave.

 

So: Yes, boys do do those things.

 

But: Parents should discipline and/or leave in response to those things.

 

We do not hang out with families that do not act similarly. In other words, I know kids misbehave, but I expect parents to correct them. And you should, too. I would not hang out with the families you described.

 

However (and I'm trying to be gentle here) I think you should consider the possibility that your son's lack of involvement with other boys has made him an easy mark for bullying. I would strongly encourage you to find other boys for him to spend time with. Even if it means finding a new church home.

[Saille]

I'd look for a different group, to be honest. I've never seen that "boys are just rough" mindset resolve itself...it's almost like people who feel that way take heart that their boy is "strong" b/c theirs is not the kid being picked on.

 

We have had several experiences with either that sort of behavior, or the "queen bee" girl on girl bullying. I'm calm, clear, assertive and I empower my children, but to my mind, one of the advantages of homeschooling is that you can choose not to hang out with people who are unhealthy for your family. The playground is one of the things I definitely do not miss about public school.

 

No one in my current homeschooling group would tolerate that nonsense.

 

ETA that my oldest son and my daughter have both had periods in their lives when they were surrounded by peers of the opposite gender. I don't see anything wrong with it unless the child feels that something is lacking, and I don't see girls as less inclined to bullying than boys...it's just bullying of a different sort, whether that's the result of nature or nurture...don't know, don't care. The reason I bring that up is b/c I don't believe your son is a "target" of bullying for that reason. He has different behavioral standards than the other boys, and that could be as much b/c of your own rules as anything else...you did say your husband found the boys ill-behaved, so clearly if your son acted that way, it would not fly.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Saille

[Hillary in KS]

I have 3 boys: 13, 8, and 6. When they play together and with other friends rough play is common. However, meanness and exclusion are not! The parents of those boys need to step in and establish more control.

 

However (and I'm trying to be gentle here) I think you should consider the possibility that your son's lack of involvement with other boys has made him an easy mark for bullying. I would strongly encourage you to find other boys for him to spend time with.

:iagree:

 

I understand about teaching your son not to hit. We sort of do the same. We teach our boys not to start a fight. But if they need to defend themselves, or someone else (sibling, smaller child, or someone defenseless) not to back away from it. Our oldest son recently very nearly came to blows protecting a mentally retarded boy who was being bullied and tormented in the YMCA locker room. Again, we don't wish for our sons to fight, but dh and I were very proud of him for protecting someone who could not protect himself.

 

You may wish to reconsider how you teach your son to protect himself, or how he deals with those bullying him.

[tex-mex]

So we are at loss of what to do - any suggestions??? Would be helpful.

Blessings

Lisa

 

Lisa,

That boy who is the "leader" is not a child I'd try to befriend. His parents sound out of touch with his rudeness and behavior. That boy sounds plain mean. No need to expose your child to that. No need to speak to the parents either -- sounds like they don't see it as a problem.

Hang in There,

Pat

 

P.S. Have you considered joining Boy Scouts or 4H club? Your son may enjoy that and make friends at the same time.

[Remudamom]

Bless his little heart. That's so hard for them. I understand you don't want him fighting, but a good right to the bully's nose would be satisfying, to me at least.

 

My girls met the only mean girl they have ever met in a Christian homeschool group.

[Sonshine]

I have 5 sons, 4 of whom were all born within 1 1/2 years of one the next one, and we have never allowed them to hit or engage in similar behavior. None would be considered sissies. They are all very highly thought of at our large church, have hiked in and out of the Grand Canyon in one day, one is grown and married to a very pretty girl whom I know would not have married a sissy, another has gone to South America twice and installed water pumps in a village with teams of grown men when he was 16 and 17, they have biked 150 miles in two days, etc. My husband is an Eagle Scout, played high school football, and is very manly. He didn't allow such behavior either. I can see where it might be appropriate if someone hit one of the boys, but we never experienced that in the many homeschool groups and co-ops we have been in. At least not where the parents didn't put an end to it very quickly. It sounds like you are in with a bunch of yahoos. I would look for some other groups for your son - visit several a time or two and then narrow the list down - kind of like looking for a church. You may want to find two groups to invest time in - if things go bad with one group, you'll still have the other group for your son and his friendships. Or sometimes things go in seasons - he can enjoy one group if he is having a hard of time with the other one - a few months later, that may reverse itself. I do agree that it is time you find him some male friends.

[katemary63]

 

No one in my current homeschooling group would tolerate that nonsense.

 

 

Mine either. It may be "normal" but it's not okay. None of the moms in my group would watch this and not put a stop to it.

 

Also, don't give in to the idea that because you are "older parents" you are somehow inferior - quite the opposite! ( I'm 45, DH is 48 and youngest DD is 8) It is simply not a factor - you are a wise and experienced mom. Trust yourself.

 

I would do everything I could to KEEP my kid from being around bullies and ENSURE my kid was spending time with kids who's behavior fell within the parameters of decency and kindness. I don't tollerate teasing.

[HeatherInWI]

That kind of behavior wouldn't have flown in any of the three (1 exclusively Christian, 2 majority Christian) homeschool groups we've been part of. The moms would have cracked down on that type of behavior fast.

 

I'm sorry that your son is having to deal with such uncivilized, badly minded children.

[Dobela]

Yes, my son has been guilty of that behavior. But he has serious consequences that happen when he does. I don't believe this behavior is acceptable. It needs to be corrected. A bully at 7 will likely remain the bully. I don't want my child to be the target either. Unfotunately children at that age seem to move in packs. They are also unable to think of possible consequences without adult intervention.

 

There is a child in our homeschool group that is similar. Several families have stopped attending because they are tired of dealing with this child. I very much enjoy some of the activities but now I do not wait for the mother to correct her child. I step in and intervene. Maybe it is my former life as a ps teacher that makes me willing to do it, but I just don't stand for it anymore. Some activities are city wide and when this child wants to benear my family, I make the rules very clear to him. If he can't abide, he must not stay near me. I have on more than one occassion returned him to his mother. I also don't attend events they invite me to. I have not been to a birthday party of theirs at all in 2+years. At the last one I was told his behavior was fine because he was the birthday boy. The mother is increasingly wondering why groups around her continue to disintegrate...

[joannqn]

There is no way I would expose my child to that kind of bullying once I knew it was going on. It is simply not acceptable.

 

I've been in a group with a very violent child. It's been a couple of years but I still actively avoid the possibility of contact as much as possible.

[LadyAberlin]

My 5 yr old is very rough and likes to wrestle, but he would never exclude anyone. He would try to wrestle anyone. I have to give him warnings and monitor the wrestling and I take great care to make sure the child he is rough housing with has the same kind of personality and enjoys it. If not I pull my son aside and tell him that he can't play that way with that particular child and that he is definitely not allowed to play that way with girls. He doesn't generally rough house with girls. He likes to hug them and kiss them on the cheek. We are working on that too since he won't be able to do that when he is older:tongue_smilie:

[gevs4him]

:001_smile:We are really grateful to hear feedback that supports what we were feeling in our hearts. In fact now that it has been brought to our attention, there seems to be a lot of bulling going on in the family. Ie. the one boy had a bruise between his eyes from his older brother hitting him with a pogo stick, and constant name calling. It seems a shame that the parents allow this behavior, but we agree that our son should not be forced to fall to this level. This does not mean that we don't feel that he should not defend himself, we just think that forcing this situation upon him is wrong. We have been praying about another church and really like the idea of Boy scouts or 4-H. Blessings,

 

Lisa

[teamturner]

So: Yes, boys do do those things.

 

But: Parents should discipline and/or leave in response to those things.

 

We do not hang out with families that do not act similarly. In other words, I know kids misbehave, but I expect parents to correct them. And you should, too. I would not hang out with the families you described.

 

However (and I'm trying to be gentle here) I think you should consider the possibility that your son's lack of involvement with other boys has made him an easy mark for bullying. I would strongly encourage you to find other boys for him to spend time with. Even if it means finding a new church home.

 

I agree with this. My 9 yo boys are rough w/each other but not to other kids. They've been bullied a time or two. It's hardest when a boy isn't used to it and doesn't know what to do about it. We've told our boys to find an adult if something happens. If a boy continues to hurt them, they should defend themselves. Also, they take martial arts and I remind them that they have the power to defend themselves. I think martial arts can give kids confidence too.

 

However, the bigger problem is the lack of discipline at co-op. My co-op would never allow this type of behavior. A child has a verbal warning, then a written warning, and then they are out of co-op if they can't follow the rules. This discipline policy has been unneccesary but I'm glad to know it's there.

[Liz CA]

Yes, I understand that you don't want your son to go around hitting other people but when he is attacked, he needs some means to defend himself. In my opinion, boys especially need to learn when it's okay to hit back - these scenarios seem to be happening more among boys than girls.

We told our son if someone hits him first, he is allowed to hit back. He can still tell you but at that very moment, he needs to be able to act.

 

It's amazing what a group of kids can do to one kid who will not or cannot defend himself. I would role play and give him some words and "tools" to use. Once he starts to defend himself, he won't be the easy target anymore.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Liz CA

[OneRoomSchoolHouse]

I do not have an older boy, but I understand the bullying. I was a very bullied child all through catholic school...I think it was the fact that I was very quiet and always had my nose stuck in a book. Anyways, I did defend myself once and was never messed with by the same girl again. From experience, if you continue to allow your son to be bullied, it can cause emotional damage. I would definately exchange the co-op for another extracurricular type activty. We put my dd(7) is karate, which she loves. Also, things such as shooting sports (through 4-H) or archery are a great way for kids to interact.

[gevs4him]

Yes, I understand that you don't want your son to go around hitting other people but when he is attacked, he needs some means to defend himself. In my opinion, boys especially need to learn when it's okay to hit back - these scenarios seem to be happening more among boys than girls.

We told our son if someone hits him first, he is allowed to hit back. He can still tell you but at that very moment, he needs to be able to act.

 

It's amazing what a group of kids can do to one kid who will not or cannot defend himself. I would role play and give him some words and "tools" to use. Once he starts to defend himself, he won't be the easy target anymore.

 

 

 

Yes we have talked about this - I did tell him to come to an adult if he is hit on and don't hit back. And sorry to say we are seeing what the group can do to him mentally and physically. So since the experience yesterday and reading what others have to say we plan to change our direction of thought and work with him on defense. And we are really not sure at this point if we are going to choose to keep him with this group. We will defiantly never do any out side activities with this boys family again.

Thanks

Lisa

[gevs4him]

I agree with this. My 9 yo boys are rough w/each other but not to other kids. They've been bullied a time or two. It's hardest when a boy isn't used to it and doesn't know what to do about it. We've told our boys to find an adult if something happens. If a boy continues to hurt them, they should defend themselves. Also, they take martial arts and I remind them that they have the power to defend themselves. I think martial arts can give kids confidence too.

 

However, the bigger problem is the lack of discipline at co-op. My co-op would never allow this type of behavior. A child has a verbal warning, then a written warning, and then they are out of co-op if they can't follow the rules. This discipline policy has been unneccesary but I'm glad

to know it's there.

 

:iagree:

This is a good point - the bigger problem - I am so thankful I found this forum to help us put things in perspective. I plan to ask our group charge just what is the policy because this behavior is unacceptable.

Lisa

[Karen sn]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

When weak irresponsible mothers are unwilling, too lazy, or too stupid to control their own kids, I WILL!

 

Good natured rough housing is one thing, nasty and mean spirited another.

 

I would talk to the boy directly. You would be amazed at the results I get.

[Stacey in MA]

I have seen my DS with his cub scout group and I'm not always impressed with these little kids. Pretty wild, pretty unkind sometimes, pretty undisciplined. Sort of Lord of the Flies-ish!

 

Anyway, I attended the WTM conference this past weekend and was so glad that Susan commented on this in a way. She mentioned that once in a while her kids would complain that they "had no friends". And her response? "Oh well, you'll get those when you're 18....." Hee hee! Her kids seem way too busy with their academics, family life and farm to bother with peer groups anyway. She also said that she has stuck hard and fast to her rule that each kid only gets 1 outside activity a week. What a relief for me! I have often wondered how people balanace "all these activities AND school AND a4-kid family"! Just one....hmm, wonder why I didn't consider that? ha!

 

She does consider INTERACTION and important, but NOT PEER interaction. Older adults and mixed aged groups seem to be her chosen route. From my little experience with peer groups, I believe I agree. It made me feel better to hear her say it though. My kids do wish for more friends and buddies, but they will have to make do with what they have for now. Perhaps it will help them value more what they DO have. Quailty, not quantity, right?

 

Anyway, I guess my quick reaction to situation would be - ICK!!! Ditch 'em and don't look back! Don't worry about filling that time with some other peer group. Just bring him home and stick some more books in his hand! Give him so more chores to help you with, teach him a new hobby or skill, etc. Don't bother with those wild peer-group activities if they are ideal. (and they're usually all like that....).

 

FWIW, Susan's 2 older sons were at this conference helping out. They helped run the Powerpont shows, helped at the book sales booths, helped entertain the younger children with stories, etc. - whatever they could do. They were very mature-seeming, charming, respectable young men. There's some nice anecdotal evidence in their example that it's going to be OK!

 

Just my 2 cents. HTH!

 

GL - Stacey

[Melissa in FL]

I just want to tell you that you are not alone. We were lucky that the first group we found of homeschoolers in MI was great. Warm, welcoming, sweet children.

 

Then we moved to FL. The first group we joined was a very small Christian group that met at the park where the children just played. My son was fine with this group. Although I didn't think they went out of their way to play with him, they were polite and he mainly played on the playground by himself. My daughter on the other hand, was treated very meanly. This was a little girl who had literally grown up around homeschoolers and she couldn't understand why these girls that she wanted to be friends with would constantly be so mean! I tried coaching her and all sorts of other things. Nothing dd or I did was going to change this group of girls. We finally walked away from the group.

 

I had a really hard time finding other homeschoolers and didn't want a co-op, just to play with them. We really thought about putting the kids in school. I really didn't want to do that and gave in to trying a co-op. We joined a secular group and it has been wonderful. All three of my kids have met wonderful friends and so have I. This is a really diverse group and we don't agree on a lot of issues, but they are always respectful and kind. They will listen to my view even if they don't agree and then give their own. My kids have been so blessed in this group.

 

So, my advise is to lose this current group and try to find another. Even if the new group is not something that sounds like it's for you, try it. Sometimes we have to get out of our own self imposed box and look for something better. If you look hard enough, you will find a better opportunity for your son to have friends.

HTH

Melissa

[SonshineLearner]

I agree with everything that's been said. I've seen my child be hit on...and I've seen my child be the instigator. He's...over the course of us visiting others....hit, kicked, spit on, shoved, bit (a big kid who he was trying to get another child away from in a kind of "save" game)...is that all you can do bad? My daughter never hurt anyone but her sisters...(and got in trouble, there, too)

Anyway, boys are sometimes very physical. I am always right there, telling him that it's wrong to hurt others. When it's appropriate, I have him apologize to the child's mother, too, for hurting "her son"...as well as the child. It's one of the things, that if it's mean...we still spank him for. For most things, I get on my knees....look him in the eyes and just talk about what we need. For hurting others, though, I don't feel like it's enough. He's almost 6 (in July), so I'm hoping that he'll not hurt people for this next years coop. This was really the first year he's been around groups of kids. I'm trying to teach him, but he has no understanding of "people's bubbles". With boys, in playing...the bubble thing is harder to explain.

Anyway, I'm going to try to do the Peacemakers for Kids thing with him.....

SO, once you do address the issues...realize that some parents work really hard...and it's still not easy!

Carrie:-)

[FO4UR]

I agree with you dh-this is not normal "boys are physical" kind of behavior. This is mean and hateful behavior. At what point does this go from "boys will be boys" to assault? When someone is permantly injured? or worse?

 

I think it's very important to teach your ds to speak up, defend himself. Really, he should be taught to refuse to play with children who act like wild animals. You should talk with about not playing with that group anymore and why.

[SBP]

To answer your first question: no, that is not the way children behave in our homeschool group, and if it were, we wouldn't have stayed there.

 

I also want to second whoever mentioned the possibility of martial arts training for your son. I have a very non-aggressive boy - I can't remember a single time he's ever hit someone out of anger (even his sister ;)) or instigated a physical confrontation. So when he said he wanted to take karate, I was willing to let him try it but didn't really think it would be a good fit. Just goes to show that mothers don't know everything! It has been the single best thing we've ever done for this particular kid. It has not made him more aggressive or one bit more likely to start a fight, but it's increased his self-discipline and self-confidence immensely. He knows he can defend himself if need be and knows what his body is and isn't capable of. At home, I think of him as my gentle giant, but then I watch him at karate and know that any kid that ever hits him in the nose will probably learn the hard way that they've made an error in judgment. I also think that a child that carries himself with confidence is probably less likely to get hit in the nose in the first place. Karate has helped my son with that a lot :).

 

Good luck to you and your boy!

 

SBP

[wimseycat]

Your husband is definitely right. Unfortunately, I have seen this type of behavior in both homeschooled boys and girls. I used to help organize events for our HS group and eventually stepped down because I didn't want my children to have to deal with some of the children who attended. This went on for several years before we stopped attending most of the functions. Now, we only attend activities where I know who will be there. I used to think some of them would grow out of it. Some did, others simply became more cunning, sneaky and devious in their behavior. You also don't want to become the referee for other people's kids.

 

Annika

[gevs4him]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

When weak irresponsible mothers are unwilling, too lazy, or too stupid to control their own kids, I WILL!

 

Good natured rough housing is one thing, nasty and mean spirited another.

 

I would talk to the boy directly. You would be amazed at the results I get.

 

What a wonderful suggestion :D - I really never thought of it! - I will have to do this the next time he decides to be mean.(which will be next Tuesday at co-op) This I think would be better than us having our son go to blows with him.

Thank you

Lisa

[Colleen in NS]

Anyway, I attended the WTM conference this past weekend and was so glad that Susan commented on this in a way. She mentioned that once in a while her kids would complain that they "had no friends". And her response? "Oh well, you'll get those when you're 18....." Hee hee! Her kids seem way too busy with their academics, family life and farm to bother with peer groups anyway. She also said that she has stuck hard and fast to her rule that each kid only gets 1 outside activity a week. What a relief for me! I have often wondered how people balanace "all these activities AND school AND a4-kid family"! Just one....hmm, wonder why I didn't consider that? ha!

 

She does consider INTERACTION and important, but NOT PEER interaction. Older adults and mixed aged groups seem to be her chosen route. From my little experience with peer groups, I believe I agree. It made me feel better to hear her say it though. My kids do wish for more friends and buddies, but they will have to make do with what they have for now. Perhaps it will help them value more what they DO have. Quailty, not quantity, right?

 

Anyway, I guess my quick reaction to situation would be - ICK!!! Ditch 'em and don't look back! Don't worry about filling that time with some other peer group. Just bring him home and stick some more books in his hand! Give him so more chores to help you with, teach him a new hobby or skill, etc. Don't bother with those wild peer-group activities if they are ideal. (and they're usually all like that....).

 

FWIW, Susan's 2 older sons were at this conference helping out. They helped run the Powerpont shows, helped at the book sales booths, helped entertain the younger children with stories, etc. - whatever they could do. They were very mature-seeming, charming, respectable young men. There's some nice anecdotal evidence in their example that it's going to be OK!

 

I wholeheartedly agree! Just came from the same conference and heard the same things. And everything Susan said about these things just confirmed what I've felt for years now. I feel that my kids are much better off spending the majority of their time with us or with books or personal projects or family gatherings, not in peer group situations. I have seen the results in my kids from earlier peer situations, including a bullying situation, and I decided that subjecting them to that was unnecessary for their development. I figure if they stay busy with us/books/projects/family, then when they are grown up they will be emotionally and mentally healthy enough to be confident in their own lives and not subject to being "victims."

 

Hang in there - I think it's great what your dh said about boys not needing to act like that!!!! And definitely trust your mid-40s instincts!:D You have 'em for a reason - life's wisdom is gaining up on you!

[Laurie4b]

Boys are rough, and most of them like it. What you describe, though, isn't "rough"-- it's bullying. It actually sounds more like queen bee behavior than boy behavior. However, it sounds like that boy is a leader in that group and it would be hard to change.

 

I think it's important for your son to have guy friends, so I'd start with smaller group of boys, minus queen bee boy, or even a one-on-one play date.