Life is never dull...change in plans for next year (rant)

[Sue G in PA]

Well, we visited the elementary school today to take a tour and get some info. for next year for ds9. Now, my dd12 and ds10 both attended this school 4 years ago before we pulled them out. I like the school. Today was really for ds9 to get a feel for the school and the layout and meet the counselor, etc. Well, the counselor is new and she was friendly enough, but I felt the whole time like we were intruding. She rushed through the tour, didn't introduce us to anyone, acted as though it were a definite that ds9 would be attending instead of putting her "best foot forward". So, then we meet this other staff member who does the testing for the school. She rushes over to us, introduces herself and asks us when we would be bringing ds9 back for his testing. Huh? She goes on to say that many children who come to school from homeschooling are very far behind in all subjects b/c the parents just don't have a clue as to what grade level they are at and what work they should be doing at what age. I calmly explained that I certainly had a "clue" as to what "level" my son was functioning and what he knew and did not know. She shook her head and said that I couldn't possibly know what grade level he would test into and that she'd just have to give him the tests in ALL subjects just to make sure. Her tone was basically...just give him to us deary so we can whip him back into shape. You played your little homeschool game for 4 years and ruined your son now let us fix him. I left there shaking my head and both my husband and I said there was no way we'd send him there next year. How can a school change so much in 4 years? Anyway, that leaves ds9, ds8, ds6, dd3 and ds1 at home next year and ds10 and dd12 in public school. Fun, fun!

[elegantlion]

Wow, sounds like they need some training in interpersonal skills. Perhaps there is a homeschool curriculum we could set them up with. :lol::lol:

 

I can't believe they would stand there and insult you to your face and then expect you to just go along with whatever they suggested.

[teamturner]

Wow! Did she say all of that in front of your son?? :confused:

[Carol in Cal.]

School district cultures are so varied.

 

My neighborhood school district is like this. It almost makes me sick to think of having to deal with them. The one in the next town is sweet as pie. No rhyme or reason to it.

 

The bad thing is that they can change on you, and you have no recourse. I want more stability and commitment than they can or want to provide. Nope, I REQUIRE more stability and commitment than they can or want to provide. Oh, wait, that's one of the reasons I homeschool!

[Jennefer@SSA]

First of all, I think they were very wrong for not only what they they but also in how they communicated it. I am sorry you had to go through that.

 

BUT I was a public school teacher for seven years and I would like to offer the "other side". Many ps teachers have a negative view of homeschooling because the only examples they see is when it's not working (for whatever reason) and the parents stick their kids back in school. They rarely get the privilege of seeing homeschooling when it works. Those kids are most often still at home! :)

 

When I was teaching first grade I had a child with an extremely severe LD. We worked and worked and worked with this little guy and were finally making some progress. Well, Dad raged in and exclaimed they could do a better job and took him out of school that very day. A year and a half later I was teaching second grade and the parents showed up to re-enroll this little guy. He had not only not gained ground...he was so much further behind than when he left us. He had basically watched tv and played video games for 18 months - and none of what he saw was remotely academic.

 

I had 3 or 4 other experiences similar to this one during my time teaching. Based on that, I thought homeschoolers must all be nuts! It wasn't until I had a precious girl enter my third grade class a few years later (who had been homeschooled K-2) that I realized what a blessing homeschooling could be. She was intelligent, kind, compassionate and loved to learn. I knew then I would consider homeschooling my kids.

 

I wouldn't necessarily write the school off if you think that may be the best fit for your child. Who know? He might be the one to open their eyes to what a blessing homeschooling can be! :)

[Renthead Mommy]

When we decided my son could go to the public school down the street (on base) for a few months starting this spring, I went down to the school to find out what kind of paperwork we needed to fill out and to say I wanted to set up an interview with whoever they would place him with as a teacher. They looked at me like I was crazy! I wanted to interview one of their teachers???

 

My taxes go to pay their salaries, I'm giving you my child to educate. Why wouldn't I interview you? I'm making a choice to pick you or not. Granted not everyone has that choice, but we at this moment do. I've known too many people who don't have a choice and just had to deal with the situation. Luckily, we are not in that position, so I want to make sure it is what/who we truely want. If I was hiring you to be a tutor, or nanny or babysitter I'd interview you, why should I interview you as a teacher? Why should this be any different?

 

Schools should remember that, unfortunately they don't. They have that attitude of you parents don't have any choice. Sorry you had to deal wiht that.

 

Oh, after I 'interviewed' the teacher, we discussed what he had been covering and I showed her portions of his work so she'd know where he was. I ended up being very happy with her and it's been an great experience for him while we are still here on island.

[Brindee]

 

I can't believe they would stand there and insult you to your face and then expect you to just go along with whatever they suggested.

Ummmm, that's bekuz us homeskoolerz don't know nuthin' 'bout educatin' childrun, so's they don't gotta treat us nice! Uv CORS we'll go along, we don't know better'n not 2!:001_huh: :tongue_smilie:

[Remudamom]

I must have missed something. Why are you sending the other two?

 

We had a family here in town that would send their kids, yank them out, send their kids, yank them out. They made the teachers/schools here just hate homeschoolers.

[Sue G in PA]

Well, we do live in an area where the school probably does see a lot of kids who were "homeschooled" but really just kept at home and not really education. Especially b/c here in PA a parent does not have to register a child for school (or homeschool) until they are 8 (3rd grade). I'm not that upset anymore. I was just upset that she said all this in front of my son and with the tone that said, "come on honey, we'll get you all straightened out!". KWIM? I had some reservations about sending this kid back anyway and this was just confirmation. So, thank you God for that! I think he'll do much better in the middle school for 5th or 6th. Funny thing was, we had our 3yo dd with us and our ds6 as well. The counselor and test administrator both asked if they'd be "getting" them next year, too. I just shook my head and said, "um, no". I said, "in fact, our 3yo could probably TEACH your preK class b/c she is that advanced." I probably shouldn't have been so arrogant, but mama bear had already emerged and they are just lucky I kept the claws retracted! :)

[Sue G in PA]

I must have missed something. Why are you sending the other two?

 

We had a family here in town that would send their kids, yank them out, send their kids, yank them out. They made the teachers/schools here just hate homeschoolers.

 

It's complicated, but my dd12 I think will do really well in school next year. She's had a tough year and her counselor actually had some amazing insight into the situation. She said it sounds like my dd is torn btwn wanting to be a normal 12yo girl and also wanting to be the "little mother" at home who helps with her siblings (she does a great job of that). So, my dh and I both think it will do her some good to just enjoy being a 12yo next year. As for ds10, there a bunch of music opportunities at the middle school that we really can't provide him here b/c of money issues. He could get guitar lessons, play in a jazz band, get drawing lessons, etc. I really don't worry about him at public school and dh, again, thinks it's best for him at this point. So...there's the story. :)

[JFSinIL]

H'mmm. I kept my youngest out of public school the last year and a half due to the awful math program used at the local school - also lack of time allowed for science/history. Our local middle school tested (with MAPS - whatever that is) her last Monday - and she tested ready for 8th grade algebra as an incoming 7th grader!!! Teeheehee I will bet my Chalkdust Math program against the local schools Chicago Math any day!!! My dd tested where she should be in language. And - since she will have finished two PrenticeHall Science Explorer books (Animals and Environmental Science) plus most of Hakim's Story of US before the end of the year (in addition to two years of Trail Guides and now one year of Runkle Geo.) she will be far more knowledgeable in those areas than the other kids coming to 7th grade from public school 6th.

 

Odds are your kidlet will also be at level or advanced in comparison to the public school kids.

 

PS my dd is going to school for social reasons. If she has to spend another year with just me at home teaching her she may implode.

Edited April 25, 2009 by JFSinIL

[I talk to the trees]

Ummmm, that's bekuz us homeskoolerz don't know nuthin' 'bout educatin' childrun, so's they don't gotta treat us nice! Uv CORS we'll go along, we don't know better'n not 2!:001_huh: :tongue_smilie:

:lol::lol:

 

Sue, you are a bigger woman than I am. I honestly don't believe I would have been able to keep my mouth shut. Ooh, I just hate ps personnel's condescending attitudes!

 

-Robin

[Stacy in NJ]

The folks who work at ps's are civil servants. They are not looking to please you as a "customer". That's not required of them. They work within a bureaucracy and are only interested in helping to the extent that the system provides for it.

[Pamela H in Texas]

It does sound like their behavior wasn't appropriate. Something must have been off.

 

HOWEVER, I wouldn't necessarily write off the school. A LOT of school personnel mostly see homeschoolers when homeschooling didn't work for some reason. A good number of kids that return to school after 1-5 years probably ARE behind, at least in some things.

 

AND testing will do one of two things. It will show that your son has some deficiencies (either because of your teaching or his learning) or it will show that he far surpasses what kids have done in that school...well, it could show both or anywhere inbetween also! That isn't necessarily a bad thing! It will be nice to have an objective idea and have him placed appropriately within the school.

 

Now, if y'all do yearly testing, I would see if that could count instead assuming he's testing on a grade level or above test and doing average to above average. No need to stress a kid out about a dumb test.

 

Maybe y'all can reconsider. Seriously, these people won't be in contact with your child daily anyway and their poor presentation doesn't necessarily say much about the school in general.

 

ETA: I wish the school would have tested both my kids in. We could have had dd moved up another grade from the get go rather than having to make a social decision after just a couple weeks in school. And ds could have been put back a grade as we all agreed a month later would have been better for him.

Edited April 25, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Danestress]

Even though I think I do know where my sons are academically, I don't really expect a school to take my word for it. I'm not sure what kind of school would just say "Well, Mom say he's at X level, so that's that."

 

Were you really surprised?

[Pamela H in Texas]

We had a family here in town that would send their kids, yank them out, send their kids, yank them out. They made the teachers/schools here just hate homeschoolers.

 

I know someone that does that also...>However, Sue pulled her kids out FOUR years ago after many years in school. There is a HUGE difference between what she's doing and the ones that do it once or twice per school year! I moved more than that while in public school the whole time! Actually, had my kids been in school, they also would have changed several times.

[unsinkable]

The folks who work at ps's are civil servants. They are not looking to please you as a "customer". That's not required of them. They work within a bureaucracy and are only interested in helping to the extent that the system provides for it.

 

I wholeheartedly agree.

[unsinkable]

When we decided my son could go to the public school down the street (on base) for a few months starting this spring, I went down to the school to find out what kind of paperwork we needed to fill out and to say I wanted to set up an interview with whoever they would place him with as a teacher. They looked at me like I was crazy! I wanted to interview one of their teachers???

 

My taxes go to pay their salaries, I'm giving you my child to educate. Why wouldn't I interview you? I'm making a choice to pick you or not. Granted not everyone has that choice, but we at this moment do. I've known too many people who don't have a choice and just had to deal with the situation. Luckily, we are not in that position, so I want to make sure it is what/who we truely want. If I was hiring you to be a tutor, or nanny or babysitter I'd interview you, why should I interview you as a teacher? Why should this be any different?

 

Schools should remember that, unfortunately they don't. They have that attitude of you parents don't have any choice. Sorry you had to deal wiht that.

 

Oh, after I 'interviewed' the teacher, we discussed what he had been covering and I showed her portions of his work so she'd know where he was. I ended up being very happy with her and it's been an great experience for him while we are still here on island.

 

I love your thoughts on this!

 

DH & I try to interview our kids' potential sports coaches. One director couldn't understand this. He thought we should be so pleased to have our son accepted into their program that we'd happily sign him up and take whatever coach he got. Uh, no thanks.

[unsinkable]

I must have missed something. Why are you sending the other two?

 

We had a family here in town that would send their kids, yank them out, send their kids, yank them out. They made the teachers/schools here just hate homeschoolers.

 

Unless it is educational neglect, isn't that a parent's choice?

 

And as for the teachers/schools, they are choosing to hate. No one makes you hate.

[Pamela H in Texas]

We had a family here in town that would send their kids, yank them out, send their kids, yank them out. They made the teachers/schools here just hate homeschoolers.

Unless it is educational neglect, isn't that a parent's choice?

 

You don't think there is an issue with sending/yanking/sending/yanking?

 

I think there is a HUGE issue with it. The kid is getting NO consistency in their education in order to have a solid foundation and general knowledge.

 

This is pretty well known. Kids that change schools every year have a harder time socially and academically. Sometimes that can't be helped due to job situations and the like. But to have parents do it yearly, every semester, or more when it CAN be helped is extremely problematic in my opinion.

 

Seriously, I can see reasons to do it here and there. I'm cool with that. My own kids went to school for 8 weeks before being pulled.

 

But there are serious educational ramifications for sending, yanking, sending, yanking.

 

AGAIN though--- That hasn't been the case with Sue and I think it is great that a homeschooling family evaluates their options and picks what they believe will be best for an individual child and/or the family.

[unsinkable]

You don't think there is an issue with sending/yanking/sending/yanking?

 

I think there is a HUGE issue with it. The kid is getting NO consistency in their education in order to have a solid foundation and general knowledge.

 

This is pretty well known. Kids that change schools every year have a harder time socially and academically. Sometimes that can't be helped due to job situations and the like. But to have parents do it yearly, every semester, or more when it CAN be helped is extremely problematic in my opinion.

 

Seriously, I can see reasons to do it here and there. I'm cool with that. My own kids went to school for 8 weeks before being pulled.

 

But there are serious educational ramifications for sending, yanking, sending, yanking.

 

AGAIN though--- That hasn't been the case with Sue and I think it is great that a homeschooling family evaluates their options and picks what they believe will be best for an individual child and/or the family.

 

I am not saying I agree with sending/yanking.

 

I am asking that unless it is educational neglect, isn't it the parents' choice?

[Paz]

Sorry you had such a frustrating visit. It may also depend on the person you are dealing with, not necessarily the attitude of the school. When my ds was going into 8th grade he wanted to go back to public school. When we met with the counselor, she said we didn't need any past work, etc. but if we had anything we could provide it. She asked about his interests and courses, put him in the highest English and math classes and gave him advanced science because I told her he liked science. A couple years later I was trying to get dd tested there for some LD's. The counselor I spoke with had no idea what homeschooling was about, was very condescending and even said, "Well you can come in anytime to test becuase you homeschool so you're always home, right?"

[Heather in Neverland]

You made the right choice. This woman obviously has a bias against homeschoolers (whatever her reason is) and a bias just doesn't go away. Also, it may be indicative of the the attitude at large. And any time your child doesn't do well in a subject it will be "because he was homeschooled." I worked as a teacher for 11 years and they see homeschoolers as a threat to them professionally and financially...professionally because, if you can homeschool your child without going to college to be a teacher then it sort of negates what they do (in their minds)....financially because less students mean teachers lose their jobs. Even if your child performs well in school they generally see that as a "fluke"....like the child is just naturally smart and it had nothing to do with the homeschooling.

[Ria]

I'm not sure why testing would have you concerned or upset. We live in PA, and when the kids transition from elementary to middle school, they are all tested so they can be placed accordingly in math, English, and writing in the middle school. I consider that a blessing for both the students and the teachers.

 

When I enrolled my sons in public school last year they were tested. I told the school where they needed to be, and those are the classes that they were enrolled in; I had no problem at all letting them take the placement tests to prove to the school that they did, indeed, belong in those classes. Those are the rules, and I had no problem following them. Kids transferring from other states and areas in PA are tested as well, so one can't say that only homeschoolers are targeted. The schools just want the best fit for the kids. Is that so wrong?

 

There's nothing worse than having a student who is not academically ready for the material being taught in a class. I've taught enough homeschoolers to know that. It's hard for the student, and it's hard for the teacher. I can only imagine how much harder it is for a teacher in a larger class of students. And, like it or not, as another poster pointed out, the schools really do see homeschoolers being placed in ps who are far behind. Good heavens, I taught homeschoolers (elementary, middle school, and high school) in various co-ops and private programs for years and saw far too many students who were years behind their public-schooled peers. That's sad, but it's true. My last class of high school students were so pathetically behind that not even the seniors could write a decent paragraph...forget an essay. They routinely failed Apologia tests. Failed! And then they and their parents complained that I expected too much. Huh? The kids were behind, had no study skills, couldn't write, etc. If I'm seeing that, you know the schools are seeing it as well. Not all parents follow TWTM you know!

 

As for the attitudes of the staff, well, they certainly could have been nicer and less hurried.

 

Ria

Edited April 25, 2009 by Ria

[JFSinIL]

Uh, I just found out the NY schools use the math program that I *think* you are referring to (Everyday Mathematics?). That is the scariest math program I have ever seen.

 

If the teachers are trained in it...and it works for your kid - it can be fine. Most of our teachers, though, were not so trained - the school kept sending home FOUR dense pages every two weeks of PARENT instructions so we'd know how to help the kids do homework (pardon me, but I already know how to do multiplication. I have no desire to learn two 'new" ways of doing it. I will show my kid how I was raised to do it and that is it!). My kids (and one of my neighbor's kids) are NOT the kind of kids able to learn math the Everyday Chicago Whateveritis Way.

[Pamela H in Texas]

There's nothing worse than having a student who is not academically ready for the material being taught in a class. I've taught enough homeschoolers to know that. It's hard for the student, and it's hard for the teacher. I can only imagine how much harder it is for a teacher in a larger class of students. And, like it or not, as another poster pointed out, the schools really do see homeschoolers being placed in ps who are far behind. Good heavens, I taught homeschoolers (elementary, middle school, and high school) in various co-ops and private programs for years and saw far too many students who were years behind their public-schooled peers. That's sad, but it's true. My last class of high school students were so pathetically behind that not even the seniors could write a decent paragraph...forget an essay. They routinely failed Apologia tests. Failed! And then they and their parents complained that I expected too much. Huh? The kids were behind, had no study skills, couldn't write, etc. If I'm seeing that, you know the schools are seeing it as well.

 

That was my experience working with local homeschoolers also. There were a couple kids on level, but the majority were WAY behind.

 

And then the parents get mad. One mother here freaked that her daughter wasn't allowed to do dual enrollment classes. Ummm, cuz she wasn't at a college level? Maybe if you had made her do school regularly and on an appropriate level the years prior she could have passed the entrance exam.

 

And it IS hard as a teacher to have kids ranging from a 3rd grade level to a high school level when you're trying to teach Biology. And then for them and their parents not to take the class seriously, come prepared, etc?

 

There are times it's not about a lack of trying to give a good education. And it doesn't necessarily mean that a school would do better by every student who is behind. I don't believe that. But I think it is ridiculous that there are people keeping their children out of school but not providing an appropriate education.

 

And I have SUCH GREAT respect for those parents who put their kids in school when homeschooling just hasn't been done appropriately. If you can't get the academics done, delegate out that responsibility. It is a STRONG GOOD parent that sends a kid to school, even if they are a little embarrassed if their kid is a little behind. It is a very respectable and responsible thing to do.

[KJB]

It is a STRONG GOOD parent that sends a kid to school, even if they are a little embarrassed if their kid is a little behind. It is a very respectable and responsible thing to do.

 

 

I totally agree. Nothing is more respectable than figuring out what your child needs, and putting up with a few jokers in order to get it.

 

Also, I'd consider doing the testing and see how he places before you decide what to do. If nothing else, it will give you an objective idea of his strengths and weaknesses.

Edited April 26, 2009 by KJB

[Sue G in PA]

Wow...didn't realize there had been any more discussion on this thread! Just to clarify...I wasn't upset (and perhaps my post seemed to insinuate that I was) about the testing. My dh was the one that suggested it anyway so we could figure out if he would be better off SKIPPING 4th grade. Honestly, the kid has not taken a standardized test before (he actually will in a month as per PA requirements) so I was worried how he would do...not academically, but just testing in general, KWIM? I've known many brilliant children who just do not TEST well. This woman was just annoying...my decision NOT to send my son isn't based solely on her. Before even visiting the school, my GUT was telling me to keep him home until middle school but dh insisted we check it out. Well, even dh thinks we should keep him home one more year at least and my son wasn't really excited one way or the other. He's cool w/ our decision. And, as always, a decision is never set in stone so if things don't work out well next year at home...we can always enroll him later. We are doing what we think is best for each individual child right now AND what is best for our family as a whole. As I plan on taking 2 Masters classes in the Fall...it was necessary that some of the kids went back. So, I feel at peace about this decision and believe it is God's will right now. Thanks for all the great feedback. I can always count on you guys for advice and support. :)

[Tabrett]

I'm a little confused about testing to find out what grade in which to place your child.

 

When I had to go back to teaching and placed my dd into PS, they just placed her into the grade at which her age dictated (which was the grade I said she was in). They did give her a math placement test to see what group she would go into within her grade, but that was it.

 

How are immigrant children dealt with where you live?

 

When I taught middle school, if an immigrant child was 11 he was placed in 6th grade. We had children who had never been in school before and could not speak English, placed in the grade their age dictated. They were sent to regular classes with one ESL class!!! They would fail the grade and have to repeat the following year (obviously).

 

If a child in PS doesn't place on level, they don't hold him back a grade. It is very difficult to hold a child back.

 

Children in PS are all over the place when it comes to levels and are rarely held back. How can they pick and choose what grade to place a former HSer into when they don't do that for immigrants and PSed children?

[Pamela H in Texas]

I didn't think you were upset about the testing. I figured it was just their snotty attitudes. But I do think the testing when they go back to school is a good thing usually. It would have helped both my kids to have been tested when I put them in ps. And I definitely get that schools feel the need when many homeschooled kids that get to them are behind.