My dd can not clean up

[MrsMe]

No matter what. This has been going on for years! What does this say about me? I haven't tolerated it for years either. There is stuff everywhere! In the kitchen, on the patio, in the front yard, in the family room, in the hall bathroom.

 

If I tell her to clean up, she shoves it into piles against the walls of the room.

 

There's a hamper in her bathroom and the clothes lie next to it.

She has hooks in her bedroom and her pajamas are on the floor. She has a laundry basket in her bedroom and her dirty clothes are on the floor and in the other closet which is for toys only.

 

I have done buckets, baskets, drawers, one big box. Nothing works. I have told her and done it with her HOW to clean up. I can do it anymore. We put the buckets in the middle of the room and start throwing them in there. We even had shelving put in her toy closet and removed the buckets. The only thing in plastic drawers are things like one lego castle and parts, one playmobile parts and doll clothes but even one of those drawers is out and used as a "don't touch my "hamster" cage, he's sleeping." Very imaginative, however frustrating because what houses her stuff is now a toy too. She has two American Girl dolls that she's acquired over a full year's time, with some clothes. She doesn't have a ton of things but she does have alot of stuffed animals, a very few barbies. Dress up clothes. And the normal odds and ends (rocks paper, boxes). She has a hutch for books and dress-up clothes, a radio. None of the music is ever put away. At this point I hope they're wrecked so I can toss them. One less thing. She has dirty socks mixed in with her horse stable. You can tell everywhere she's been because there are signs. I call her the human tornado. The drawers are open and not shut. She's in karate and hanging her gi up consists of throwing the gi sleeve over the rail that hangs the hangers. I thought to send a picture of that to her instructor. But I figure that's a tad personal.

 

I've done the two toys out at once. Doesn't work and I don't have a place to house the rest of it anyway. I bought a Littlest Pet Shop case for her pet shops, but those are in a basket she's found and everywhere else and other "junk" is in the case.

 

I have taken things away, but it doesn't much matter. She'll tell me to take it, so she doesn't have to clean it up. I honestly believe she cannot and is not able to do this.

 

I don't have a clue what else to do, except box it up and toss it into the goodwill. But I refuse to do that to American Girl dolls.

 

What do I do, where do I go. Bare minimum and be done with it? Throw it? What, what? She's 8.5 and knows better by now. The yard is strewn with plastic animals.

 

I have never seen a guy this messy. I haven't a clue what do do anymore. None, nadda. I'm desperate.:banghead: Frankly I'm sick of dealing with it. We already say we won't come in and say goodnight unless we can easily get to her bed (which is almost in front of her door).

 

AAAAACCKKKK!

 

Let me add that we won't let her watch tv because she's obcessed with it so she has to earn it and we want her to read more. So she reads and there are books everywhere, bathroom, kitchen island, kitchen table, floor, ottoman, bedroom in a pile. I have showed her how to put a book back. If they get put back they're stacked in a pile on top of the books that are on the shelf right. I'm mean she does the least amount possible.

Edited April 8, 2009 by alilac

[thundersweet]

I have two of those. Can't wait to hear what other say. :lurk5:

 

Sandy

[JenninMN]

WHAT is MY daughter doing at YOUR house?!?!?! Obviously, you'll get no good advice from me. Just sympathy. My dd is 13 now. It's still bad. Not QUITE as bad. . .I commented to my dh just this evening how she has been helping out around the house, picking up her little brother's stuff and such. He wanted to know why she still can't pick up her own. . .:confused: Not in front of her tho'. Her clothes go beside the hamper too. Socks used to go in the Barbie bin. Now they get stuffed down the couch. :001_huh: I've found socks stuffed between the books on the bookshelf in her room. :tongue_smilie: That takes much more energy than dropping them in the hamper. . . I have a pleasant fantasy that keeps me going. Someday she'll have her own house. And I am going to drive over some day when she is gone and let myself in. I will look at the crumbs on the counter and the dishes in the sink and the clothes on the floor and the trash beside the trashcan that didn't quite make it in. And I will LAUGH and I will LEAVE.:smilielol5:

 

Jennifer

[Jeana]

Just a thought but have you thought of just shutting the door. When you find something lying around pick it up and put it in a box, that she doesn't know about, then eventually she will begin looking for it. It won't be easy but when she recognizes that it is missing then she has to wait x amount of time before it comes out of lock up. If she says get rid of it. Then maybe just do that. I tell my kids not to say things they don't mean. They have said this to me a few times and when I finally just said ok I will. They didn't say that unless they REALLY meant it. Even the American Girl dolls can catch a good price on Ebay. When she doesn't have shoes to go to the store in, books to finish reading, toys to play with maybe she will realize that it's worth putting in it's place. When I told my 9 and 11 yr old that I won't help them look for things anymore, they are responsible for getting themselves ready it only took once of going to tae kwon do in something other than their suit for them to at least make the effort. We aren't scrammbleing for shoes, drink bottles, etc. near as much. The other thing I have done is pile everything that isn't where it belongs ontop of my sons bed. He HATES that. However, he doesn't do anything else until it is all put away in the RIGHT place. The shutting the door thing is not something I can do but it does work for some. I am just a little bit of an over organizer and some say a little too tidy, lol. People have said that once the negative attention is off of them they stop being so messy. These are just a few ideas I have been told. One last thing, could it be that she has trouble staying focused on what she is doing? Therefore, she is moving from one thing to another because she gets distracted by something else that catches her eye. It could be just that she needs to be reminded of what she was doing and that she needs to complete the task. BTW, I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination. HTH though to give you some ideas that you hadn't thought of before. Good luck and God bless, Jeana

[tinkgumby]

:lurk5:

 

I'm going to be interested in replies from more experienced people than me, but I'll toss in my 2 cents.

 

I have two boys that share a room - ages 7 and 8 - and it's almost always been a chronic disaster. They really don't clean up after themselves, and they DO (or did) have too much for their room. I think it was overwhelming for them. I'd go in and spend a day "helping" them clean (mostly me doing it), and get frustrated when it was back to the usual wreck within days. I'd change organizational systems, rearrange furniture, buy bins - nothing seemed to work.

 

Finally I got good and fed up (one of them was having trouble sleeping at night, and I think it might have been the state of his room), and sent them to my bed to sleep. I spent the next two hours boxing up EVERYTHING in their room that wasn't already put away. I am talking boxes and boxes full of stuff - it was unbelievable. I took everything out from under their bed, everything out from their closet, everything withing sight that wasn't in the proper place. It all went out to the garage.

 

You would think that they would mourn the loss of some of their beloved possessions, but they were relieved. I really think they were overwhelmed by too many things in a small space and just didn't know what to do with it all. It's been a couple of months now since I did that, and only a couple of times have they requested to bring something in (and the rule is that it has to have a home if they bring it in). I won't say it's always perfect now, but cleaning up is a matter of minutes instead of hours.

 

Oh, and that closet that I emptied . . . we turned it into a Lego closet! I put a little table and all their bins of Legos in there, and now I don't have Lego pieces scattered across the house anymore. Hooray!

 

I don't know if any of this is helpful to your specific situation, but I keep coming back to the principle that you can't organize clutter - you've got to pare down first, and then organize the rest.

 

As far as not treating books or clothing right, you could also clearly establish a rule that anything not treated correctly will be taken away and earned back . . . but you'd have to be willing to let her suffer the consequences, even if that meant showing up to karate out of uniform or not having a library book to return on time. It's a little more extreme, but it might work, depending on your and her personalities.

[Jeana]

Lol, it might also help to remember that maybe you were messy as a kid too and you grew out of it. At least I did. Apparently, my mom says she doesn't know what alien nation took me and put me back the tidy organizer. I was a pack rat and a mess when I was a teenager. When I left home we took 8 whole garbage bags from my room of just old magazines, papers, etc. I still think maybe she is dreaming about all that but she insist that it is true. So, there is hope that they won't grow up to be total slobs.

[Melabella]

You described my dd9 perfectly. I know I was the same way at her age (and at 16), but my parent's didn't really care. Frankly, they were messy, too.

 

I have been fighting this battle with her for quite some time and we are finally at the point that I can tell her to go clean her room and she does without too much of a fight. However, her idea of clean and mine are two different things. She just doesn't seem to see all of the clutter she leaves laying around and in piles.

 

Good luck! :grouphug:

[springmama]

She tells you to go ahead and take it? I would just take everything of hers and put it all in big bins and hide them in the attic. Keep her room simple. 2 weeks worth of clothing, all coordinating, 2 pairs of shoes, a certain number of books and a few toys. Nothing that will take more than 5 minutes to pick up even if it's ALL strewn throughout her room.

 

If she leaves things in a common area of the house, stop her and make her pick it up and put it away before allowing her to leave the room. If you are in the kitchen and she comes in to ask you a question, then nicely say "I need you to take these books and put them away, right now." Does she refuse? If so, then you probably have consequences for being disobedient.

 

My feeling is that less is more when it comes to clothes and toys. Surely you have things that she and you both love and do not want to give away, so rotation is the best way to keep the super cool awesome toys and yet not clutter up the house. Let her help you pick some things to put away and promise to switch them out in a month.

 

We are in the process of doing this at our house right now with everything. I'm either throwing away, donating, or rotating toys, clothes, fabric stash (mine is a bit obnoxious at the moment) and kitchen gadgets and let me tell you, it is so freeing. Being able to pick up a room because there is barely anything to pick up is great and the kids are able to play because the clutter is gone.

[Jeana]

Maria, that is soooo true. When I scaled down big time, it made all the difference. As far as clothes are concerned. My daughter LOVES clothes and I have put all of her good things on hangers in her closet. She has to ask permission to wear anything that is hung up, until she shows me that she can actually take care of the things that God has blessed her with. She has to keep her old things neat and tidy for awhile before I will relent this one. It is going well. She is hanging her clothes, not perfect, but hung just the same after she takes it off and folding and putting her old stuff away. Ok, I will be quiet now.

[LisaKinVA]

:iagree:What she said...

 

My situation is a little different... as I have four children sharing one small room, and a new baby. I think the amount of stuff is overwhelming. I know it overwhelms me! 900 sq. feet... 7 people... just the school books are enough to make me a nervous wreck... the clothes and the toys... my husband's tools... my work stuff... it's awful.

 

Pretty much all of the toys and "stuff" are getting boxed up and taken to our storage unit over the next couple of days. I know there will be many tears, but we have to start somewhere, and I simply cannot cope. We'll get things out on a selective basis -- and the kids will have to earn it back.

 

Clothes? I've become a very strict mamma. I'm so tired of washing folded, clean (but stinky due to proximity) clothes, and the mess, we are having morning and evening "inspections."

 

We go over what is "clean" and what is "dirty" every night. If it's dirty, it goes into the dirty clothes... if it's clean, it's folded or placed neatly on the chair/dresser top to be worn the next day. In the morning, I check to make sure their PJ's are put away for the next night, and that they are wearing the clothes they had set out...

 

The clothes portion (2 days into it) is working so far. Usually, by this time of the week, I'd have a full basket of "dirty" clothes (everything they didn't want to put away went in the dirty clothes basket... and I do mean everything). Right now, I have 8 pair of dirty underwear, one nightgown (throw-up), and 2 outfits.

 

If their bedroom isn't picked up, there is no story-time before bed. They spend their story time hanging up clothes instead.

 

I don't know how it's all going to wind up... maybe we should pick up this thread again in a month or so? I'm hoping, at some point, these things will become a habit.

 

All I know, is that, we're applying for a construction loan in June, and beginning in July (God-willing), we're supposed to start building a house. Beginning in August, there will be no more time to sort through things and get ready to move. I have to get the clutter GONE, so that we can get through other bins and boxes before the end of July.

 

Once we have the house... I don't know what will happen. My bedroom will be on the main floor, the children's bedrooms will be on the 2nd floor, and the toys (I believe) will be in the basement... so I guess we'll see!

 

Lisa

[usetoschool]

I have a daughter much older than yours who is and always has been this way. We went round and round about it for years until it was damaging our relationship. So, no solutions but some experience.

 

It is not your fault. Of my kids she is the only one like this so I know it is not faulty training. And she does know how to clean and organize. When we were on vacation recently and she was home with her sister for a week, she did all of the cleaning and complained about her sister being messy! :lol: Here is what I think is the problem - she just doesn't see it. Her mind is just always on other things. She is kind of like an absent minded professor. So she will do her hair and just walk away because her mind is on other things and onto the next thing, and leave every brush and styling implement on the counter. She often has to call the house and ask somebody to unplug her curling iron when it suddenly finds room to enter her brain as she is driving. She loves to read, likes to watch movies and is perfectly happy playing alone. Her mind is just full of other thoughts and she really. doesn't. see. it. She also has a lot of stuff and has recognized this herself and will sometimes go on a purging binge. She likes stuff and even as a kid she was the one that like to collect Polly Pockets and play Barbies and still likes to sit down with her little brother sometimes and build really imaginative Lego stuff.

 

If I had it to do over again...I would have spent less time arguing and being frustrated over it. Laid down a couple of rules about her things interferring with other peoples peace, explained to her carefully about why I wanted it a certain way and when it got messy took her on a tour of all her stuff, just in routine way, hoping to help her SEE it, not to be mad or accusatory, and then stuck firmly to the few rules we worked out.

 

And when she is gone I will miss her stuff and the house will seem empty and way too clean :crying:

 

Your daughter may be totally different, but that has been my experience. Maybe something will be helpful.

[thundersweet]

We do the take away and store out of sight thing. The problem is, the kids can get into anything anywhere in this house. They will even sneak into the garage and rummage through bags for the toy they want. I like the idea of putting things in the attic. Brilliant!! :lol:

 

Sandy

[Chris in VA]

I love that line, "You can't organize clutter."

 

I would not simply box up and put away her stuff, I'd get rid of it. Pare her room down to the essentials, and realize that you, too, have to let go--my dd has been desperate for me to clear out her closet. I have two big boxes of her old clothes in there, and it's been hard for me to let them go. I keep thinking I'll sell them on ebay, or won't sell the ones that give me that nostalgic feeling.

 

Well, today, I'm being ruthless. I'm not even going to look inside the boxes--they are ALL going to the shelter's store as a donation.

 

I remember well my ds' comment when he was about 8--he had a lot in his closet (and his brother's--they shared a room) and he said his teacher recommended 10 toys in the room, that's it. 10 is a lot, but not as much as he had.

 

I love Jennifer's Lost's blog, "Halving it All" because she has gone thru her house and gotten rid of stuff, and can attest to the peace it brings.

 

Do it, and get back with us to see how it worked.

[debbielong]

You have already gotten the first best piece of advice - get rid of lots of stuff. Paring down is tremendously liberating. Stuff can be oppressive and it can be damaging to relationships. So, first, eliminate.

 

Second, I believe you that she just can't do this on her own. Some of us are wired to "see" the mess and some just aren't. It is futile to punish someone for something they just can't help. For people who see things in "globs" instead of "boxes" (I'm a box girl, myself) - it is too overwhelming to think about putting everything away.

 

Just too much.

 

However (and this is a big however), you don't have to give up:). It isn't completely hopeless:). What we can't do naturally, we can learn to do by building habits.

 

Slllllllllllloooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

 

One. at. a. time.

 

Perhaps you could pick one thing. Clothes. Toys. Books. Whatever. And set a time twice a day where all those things get put away. If you are anything like me, the person for whom this will be most difficult is...you:)

 

Maybe if you set up a routine, eventually (and it may take years), picking up will just be what she does at 8 a.m. (or 10 or whatever works for you all) and 2 (or 4 or 8 or whatever).

 

On my 12-year-old son's daily school list, I have the subject "Math" and then "put away math." AFter each subject is a little reminder to put his stuff away. Once it became part of a routine, (and a written one that doesn't include my voice) it was a lot easier.

 

He'll probably never be a neat person, and I don't really care (other than I'll feel sorry for his wife:)), because neatness is not a Fruit of the Spirit:). But, respect for others in the family and a reasonable amount of care for "stuff" is part of the deal.

 

HTH!

[FO4UR]

What a timely thread:001_huh::lol:

 

You just described ME as a child...and my dd4!

 

My mom used to joke that she didn't need to spend $ on carpet for my room b/c all of my dirty clothes kept my feet warm:blushing: (I did have a nice hw floor, when I could find it....at least it was kept in good shape for when Mom sold the house.....I digress)

 

The absent-minded thing strikes a familiar cord as well. There is always something more pressing to be done - I can't pick up now b/c I have to "x, y, z" and "x, y, z" are VERY important....atleast to me. I know a large part of my good grades in school were due to the fact that I would do math than clean:tongue_smilie:.......and interestingly enough - my kids are going to have top-notch educations b/c it's more fun to teach them math than to clean......:lol:

 

And, yet - the mess drives me nuts now that I'm the mom - and my kids toy room is a GRAND mess at the moment, inspite of having trashed 3 bags and a huge box full of toys last month....so :lurk5:

[MrsMe]

Thanks for all the responses!

 

3/4 of me thinks it's just plain wrong, disrespectful and irresponsible to have such a mess. If it was contain to her room, it probably wouldn't be so bad or so annoying. But the hall bathroom is a play area as well and sometimes you have to move the dirty clothes or tub toys that landed on the floor to pee. (lack of respect for others)

 

I have sandals outside my front door and she takes those and I found MY sandals in her playhouse. Grrrrrrrrrr. (lack of respect for others' things)

 

Not only can you not organize clutter, but you can't organize toys either. Trust me.

 

She's very imaginative and I hate to stomp on that. She'll have sand in a bin (from her closet) with a fake tree, some seashells (she found at the lake) and her little pets or people or plastic animals play in there. I try not to disturb that. She's a huge creator. She probably could do well without half her toys, because she creates! She has uses for boxes and cartons and all that stuff, but then again, EVERYTHING becomes a toy for her. Your stuff, my stuff. No respect for other's stuff. Yes, we've gone over asking for things. Doesn't work.

 

Even boxing up things, two toys at a time....she doesn't just play with the playmobile. She plays with the people of the playmobile with her dinosaurs where the legos becomes a table and the plastic drawer becomes the forest. I can't stifle that.

 

But her room is toxic. You can't clean or vacuum or dust. She has a few things that should sit on the shelf and be left there to look at and while she's too young for that, nonetheless we have it. "It's just for looking at" I tell her and it still becomes a toy, now a broken toy.

 

I don't have an attic. But I do have a shed. I used to put some stuff in her playhouse and it had to STAY there, but it wandered in the house. I just don't want this to come between us, and it does. 95% of the time she's a good kid, but this is untolerable to me.

 

I am anal and I know I'm anal so I try not to be that way with her. (I was one of those who put all my crayons back in their original order in the box and never, ever broke them). She's one who breaks her crayons and peels all the paper off (GASP!). So knowing I'm anal, I've come a long, long way, but not being able to see her floor or having stuff be totally mutilated for lack of cleaning up is not responsible. Especially when it starts carrying over to the kitchen, bathroom and family room. We've done the one toy goes in one toy comes out sort of thing. We periodically bag up stuff and give it away. But I think with the legos and such we'll have to ask to get them. And we need to just half it all. She even had a brand new bike and after time and time again to have her put it away it rots in the sun. We won't buy her another one.

 

You're right she doesn't see it, but if she doesn't see it then she needs a more manageable amount of toys.

 

Thanks for commiserating with me. :lol:

[Jill]

Some of us are just like this as children and adults. It's not that as a child I didn't have any discipline, I just had discipline for the things I wanted to have discipline in and, yes, I just didn't SEE the mess. As a SAHM who is also homeschooling, it is tough. I still don't always SEE it and then when I do, ouch.

My ds seems to have the same tendency inherently and probably via example also. BUT that's not to say that we can't improve, and we do. Doing a project includes picking up after ourselves too. I tried the FlyLady way of doing things and that helped me a bit and there are probably specific sugestions for kids there. Paring down helps and that may have to happen a couple of times a years too. New "things" enter our lives and so old "things" must be parted with if our space (and ability to manage them) doesn't grow to hold them. Sometimes it just takes me a while to see how I can organize the things I do need and it takes me a while to figure out what can go and my ds may have that. It always takes me a while to figure out how to live in a new home whereas I have friends for whom all these things just seem to come naturally! But I now realize that at least some of it is how their minds work and some is how they were taught - a bit of both.

 

Here is what I think is the problem - she just doesn't see it. Her mind is just always on other things. She is kind of like an absent minded professor. So she will do her hair and just walk away because her mind is on other things and onto the next thing, and leave every brush and styling implement on the counter. She often has to call the house and ask somebody to unplug her curling iron when it suddenly finds room to enter her brain as she is driving. She loves to read, likes to watch movies and is perfectly happy playing alone. Her mind is just full of other thoughts and she really. doesn't. see. it. She also has a lot of stuff and has recognized this herself and will sometimes go on a purging binge. She likes stuff and even as a kid she was the one that like to collect Polly Pockets and play Barbies and still likes to sit down with her little brother sometimes and build really imaginative Lego stuff.

 

yep - that's me.

definitely keep this in mind as you work on this:

"And when she is gone I will miss her stuff and the house will seem empty and way too clean"

jcooperetc hit it on the nose I think.

[Haiku]

My kids don't play with toys as toys. Toys (and any other objects they come across) are props in this great big huge gigantic creative thing that they are constantly inventing. The house is a complete mess because, as you said, anything they play requires parts from 15 different toys and spreads across several rooms (this room is the island, this one the ship, etc.).

 

I haven't found anything to do about it and I am trying instead to be glad that they are creative and to remember that this, too, shall pass. My alternative is to restrict them so much that it kills their creativity, which I don't want to do. I guess, for now, I have to live with the mess.

 

Tara

[MrsMe]

My kids don't play with toys as toys. Toys (and any other objects they come across) are props in this great big huge gigantic creative thing that they are constantly inventing. The house is a complete mess because, as you said, anything they play requires parts from 15 different toys and spreads across several rooms (this room is the island, this one the ship, etc.).

 

I haven't found anything to do about it and I am trying instead to be glad that they are creative and to remember that this, too, shall pass. My alternative is to restrict them so much that it kills their creativity, which I don't want to do. I guess, for now, I have to live with the mess.

 

Tara

 

See? I'm doing well! We have a new fridge and my dd wanted the box. So it's in the front yard and it's been windy, so everything that WAS in it is all over the front yard?

 

So I'm not as anal as I used to be. But if I'm letting this go, you'll have to think how bad her room is! LOL!

[yslek]

Does she have any kind of desire to clean or have a clean space? I know that I was like that growing up (drove my Mom nuts!) but felt so overwhelmed when I looked at a mess. Even though I'd had help cleaning in the past, even though I'd been shown how to clean, I would see a mess and freeze. (Still do, actually. :tongue_smilie:)

 

If she wants to clean, but just freezes up, maybe something like this would help:

 

http://www.triggermemorysystem.com/CleanNFlip.html

 

Sometimes, just having one step at a time to look at & follow can be a tremendous help. At the very least, you could hand her the chart as you tell her to clean her room, and she would know exactly what she needed to do.

 

This book might be helpful, too: http://www.amazon.com/Every-Child-Thinking-Style-Preferences/dp/0399532463/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239210119&sr=8-1, although it sounds like you're already implementing many of the author's suggestions for Innovators/Horses (which it sounds like your dd is) to no avail. :(

 

I hope you find something that helps you both stay sane! :grouphug:

[MrsMe]

Does she have any kind of desire to clean or have a clean space? I know that I was like that growing up (drove my Mom nuts!) but felt so overwhelmed when I looked at a mess. Even though I'd had help cleaning in the past, even though I'd been shown how to clean, I would see a mess and freeze. (Still do, actually. :tongue_smilie:)

 

If she wants to clean, but just freezes up, maybe something like this would help:

 

http://www.triggermemorysystem.com/CleanNFlip.html

 

Sometimes, just having one step at a time to look at & follow can be a tremendous help. At the very least, you could hand her the chart as you tell her to clean her room, and she would know exactly what she needed to do.

 

This book might be helpful, too: http://www.amazon.com/Every-Child-Thinking-Style-Preferences/dp/0399532463/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239210119&sr=8-1, although it sounds like you're already implementing many of the author's suggestions for Innovators/Horses (which it sounds like your dd is) to no avail. :(

 

I hope you find something that helps you both stay sane! :grouphug:

 

Ah yep...been there, tried that. LOL!!!

[Renai]

Lol, it might also help to remember that maybe you were messy as a kid too and you grew out of it. At least I did. Apparently, my mom says she doesn't know what alien nation took me and put me back the tidy organizer. I was a pack rat and a mess when I was a teenager. When I left home we took 8 whole garbage bags from my room of just old magazines, papers, etc. I still think maybe she is dreaming about all that but she insist that it is true. So, there is hope that they won't grow up to be total slobs.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't always true. Best to nip it in the bud. I was a slob when I was young, and still one now, cuz my parents took the advice of just shutting my door and not teaching me how to clean. It almost cost me marriage. I wouldn't live on hope that the child will just grow out of it.

 

For many people, if things are taken, or "just get rid of it," it's not a punishment, it's a relief. If she says, take it, please, do it. Help her give to others that may not have as much as she. She'll probably like it, and it helps teach to give (and get rid of things not needed). My daughter loves it when I say, let's go through this stuff and get rid of stuff. It's a relief for her.

 

Funny enough, we can both organize small things that matter to us. She has a bookcase that she keeps neat with trinkets. I have a CD collection that is ordered alphabetically, and with the same artist by year :001_huh:.

 

It's the other stuff that's the problem. The big picture. It helps to break down the big picture into smaller details, and work on those one at a time.

[MrsMe]

Unfortunately, this isn't always true. Best to nip it in the bud. I was a slob when I was young, and still one now, cuz my parents took the advice of just shutting my door and not teaching me how to clean. It almost cost me marriage. I wouldn't live on hope that the child will just grow out of it.

 

 

This is actually my fear. That shutting the door isn't an option. She'll never learn to do the right thing, which is to clean up after and take care of her things and her home at some point. It's not right to have pile after pile after pile. It will create a lack of peace for her and her family at some point and if I shut the door, well, it's just not okay. I'm not anal on her room being clean constantly. But it also isn't right.

 

Let me add that when I was young, I had dirty clothes that where piled up high in the basket because I didn't take them to the laundry room. But they weren't all over the place. I had toys but mostly my drawers overflowed with my stuff; paper, junk, but it was IN the drawer, then I'd go on a cleaning binge and throw stuff away, and clean. My bed was made, it had to be.

Edited April 8, 2009 by alilac

[specialmama]

I have a neat book called Organizing from the Inside Out, and it made me see something really neat about myself. Here's the gig: I'm a perfectionist. If I don't have time to do the whole job and do it perfectly, then I just don't do it. After reading this book, I learned a really neat trick that works for me, my dd, and it may just work for your dd too. I now take a section and work on that. For example, in my kitchen, I take the smallest area, let's say, the counter above the dishwasher. That will be my project, to clean only that area. I really try to focus and not look at all the other areas. This is the ONLY way I will ever get anything done. With my daughter, I tell her to go clean off her dresser, that's all she has to do. When she's done we play a game or something, I do give her lots of praise for a job well done... then I ask her to clean off her desk. When that's done I may decide that's it for the day. The next day she has to clean off her bed. Praise, reward, then a small section of her floor (I do mean small, like the size of her dresser) and I do find that she works better like that. Just knowing that this is the only area to be done keeps it from being overwhelming. Hope that helps someone! :001_smile:

[HFClassicalAcademy]

I don't agree with the thought of just closing the door, doing things for your child, or waiting for her to grow out of it. These kind of habits are hard to break and can cause serious damage to relationships once she is grown up.

 

Here is what I would do, especially since you have tried everything.

 

Black her out. This means that you take EVERYTHING away, except some clothes and her bed. Put all toys in bins (or better yet, get rid of half of them!) and place them where she can't get to them...preferably the attic.

 

As a parent your responsibilities are to feed your children, clothe them, shelter them, educate them and love them. You are not required to buy them toys, let them watch TV, etc. Those are just perks.

 

After a while, you start by taking out books. I would choose this since you want her to read more. Take out only a few leisure books at first. With this, you teach her (again!) where they should go. After her being consistent with taking care of them...you add a couple more. From books, you might add 1 toy. You have to go so sssssllllloooooooowwwww!!!!!

 

It is hard to do this, but I have known a few people who had to go to this extreme and it has worked for them. You just can't make any excuses for her and you can't let her grown up like this. It will cause problems!!!

 

You will be surprised with how little our kids need to function happily!

 

HTH!!

 

Liz in NC

[ABQmom]

I totally agree with the decluttering ideas. Here's another trick I learned from a book.

 

Put the monkey on your dd's back and leave it there. By your lecturing and ranting about what a mess it is, you keep taking the monkey off of her back and making it your problem again. For example: When dd comes to a meal or snack, say "Do you have the freedom to eat with us right now?" If she says yes, and her room or whatever is a mess, she needs a consequence administered because she lied about it--she didn't have the freedom to eat when her messes weren't cleaned up. What you want is for her to eventually think and say, "Um, no I don't have the freedom. I need to clean up my room first." You could use this at meal time because it happens frequently enough, but you could also ask when she wants to play outside--do you have the freedom to play outside right now?

 

Start the process by telling her that she does not have the freedom to do X, Y or Z until her messes are cleaned up. Then, start holding her to it--accountablity. I've done this with my children. It works! They don't like the "Do you have the freedom to...." question because they know it's putting the monkey on their back--no longer is this problem MY responsibility!

[MrsMe]

I have a neat book called Organizing from the Inside Out, and it made me see something really neat about myself. Here's the gig: I'm a perfectionist. If I don't have time to do the whole job and do it perfectly, then I just don't do it. After reading this book, I learned a really neat trick that works for me, my dd, and it may just work for your dd too. I now take a section and work on that. For example, in my kitchen, I take the smallest area, let's say, the counter above the dishwasher. That will be my project, to clean only that area. I really try to focus and not look at all the other areas. This is the ONLY way I will ever get anything done. With my daughter, I tell her to go clean off her dresser, that's all she has to do. When she's done we play a game or something, I do give her lots of praise for a job well done... then I ask her to clean off her desk. When that's done I may decide that's it for the day. The next day she has to clean off her bed. Praise, reward, then a small section of her floor (I do mean small, like the size of her dresser) and I do find that she works better like that. Just knowing that this is the only area to be done keeps it from being overwhelming. Hope that helps someone! :001_smile:

 

That's a good idea. Small areas. :iagree:

 

I am also going to to what the pp said. I'm gonna box stuff up and half it. I really think she's overwhelmed. It's just too much.

Edited April 8, 2009 by alilac

[SBP]

I recently got rid of 95% of my kids' toys because I was SO sick of the mess. They don't seem to miss them at all and actually enjoy having their rooms be cleaner. The truth was that they had too much stuff in too little space, and since we can't afford a bigger house with bigger bedrooms, the stuff had to go. And after they had kept their rooms clean for a month or so, I tried to reward them a bit: I repainted my son's room, letting him help pick the colors and even help with a bit of the painting (!), and I let DD rearrange her furniture and do a little redecorating. They both loved this and seem to be taking more pride in their rooms' appearance as a result.

 

With regard to messes in the rest of the house, my policy is to call them from wherever they are and have them come pick up or clean up a mess they left behind them. Yesterday, I made my DD9 come home from playing at a neighbor's house just so she could hang up the coat she'd left on the den floor. Yes, it was more trouble for me to go next door and get her than it would have been to pick up the coat myself. Yes, the neighbors probably think I'm crazy. Don't care. I should not be the one inconvenienced by her thoughtlessness/laziness, and unless I inconvenience her, she's not going to learn to do better. So she not only had to hang up the coat, but I found another chore for her to do, too, while she was home.

 

Don't know if anything here is helpful to you, but I wish you luck with your DD :).

 

Best,

 

SBP

[Guest jkiddhaven]

Hi there! I laughed when I read your post because it brought back a flood of memories...My daughter was exactly as you described, her stuff was EVERYWHERE no matter what I did. We tried:point system, rewards, punishment, every organizational system under the sun and then some. She just wasn't able to keep track of things. I wouldn't say she was blatently unwilling, just...unaware, I guess. She would walk over clothes on the floor without even realizing it and weave around a pile of books or toys to reach her door. After trying everything I could think of, I finally came up with my "last resort". I took everything, and I mean everything, out of her room. The stuff that was precious to me went in a bin in my closet and everything else went in the trash. Even her clothes went to goodwill. I left her with three denim jumpers, three shirts,three pairs of tights, four pairs of undies, two pairs of socks and two pairs of shoes. She had her sheets and a blanket, one stuffed animal and her Bible. That was it, seriously. I was that sick of it. Imagine her disgust at having to wear a denim jumper every day! (She's more of a jeans and t-shirt person). I didn't buy her anything new and if she did get something it went in the trash the first time I saw it on the floor or left around the house. I couldn't have any compassion on this one issue. If it was something valuable I gave it to the needy instead. She got to be very good at putting her things away so that they didn't get dumped after losing the first few things. I tried to do this with a cheerful and not punishing attitude as I didn't want her to resent it, but learn from it. I'd say it took her about six months or so to really form a habit of putting things away where they belong. We've gradually brought back more things, but will probably never have as much as she originally did. This happened when she was 11 yrs. old and she is 15 now and doing well. She can still be disorganized, especially with her schoolwork, but she sees it as a weakness she has to watch out for. And she recognizes that she is a person who needs limited distraction, and limited "stuff" to take care of. She is much happier this way. I don't know if you'd have to go as extreme as I did, but I just wasn't going to live that way any longer. We have nine children and she herself was making a bigger mess than the other eight! Hope this helps, good luck! Mary:001_smile:

[yslek]

Ah yep...been there, tried that. LOL!!!

 

:glare: Bummer. I had another thought. I'm slowly going through my house room-by-room, using this book (and the Organizing by your Brain Type ideas) as a guide:

 

http://www.amazon.com/House-That-Cleans-Itself-Solutions/dp/0736918809/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239224622&sr=8-1

 

Maybe you could check this out at your library to see if her ideas would work for your dd's room. She advocates a multi-faceted approach that begins with evaluating the mess, goes on to decluttering/cleaning, assigning a place for everything that's left, and then setting up systems that work with our habits as much as possible, so that doing the neat thing is as thoughtless and easy as doing the messy thing. If, after all that, there are some areas that we need to retrain ourselves, then we do so, but it should be easier.

 

You mentioned that your dd is creative. Perhaps she would enjoy taking pictures of her messy space, having them printed, and evaluating the mess/coming up with solutions. (:confused:) Would this maybe help her "own" the problem (and solution :D)?

 

Just another thought. :)

[Alana in Canada]

Unfortunately, this isn't always true. Best to nip it in the bud. I was a slob when I was young, and still one now, cuz my parents took the advice of just shutting my door and not teaching me how to clean. It almost cost me marriage. I wouldn't live on hope that the child will just grow out of it.

 

 

:iagree: (Right down to the marriage part) I'm in the middle of reaping the consequences of having been a horrible housekeeper this winter.

Waking bugs like dust bunnies.

{Shudder}

[Haiku]

The problem with the "throw away what gets left out" approach is that it assumes 1) the left out items are toys and 2) the left out items belong to the children. My kids use household items far more than they use toys, and I'm not going to throw away things that belong to other people or things like bath towels, spoons, etc.

 

We have tried all sorts of restrictions on our kids, but they are just ... messy. My kids regularly reap the consequences of not being able to borrow my or my husband's stuff because they don't return it/leave it lying around, etc., but it doesn't deter them. They regularly reap the consequences of having to go somewhere in socks because they can't find the shoes that they didn't put away. It doesn't deter them. My kids regularly reap the consequences of having to be called home/inside/away from a game to clean up their messes. It simply doesn't deter them.

 

Tara

[MrsMe]

Hi there! I laughed when I read your post because it brought back a flood of memories...My daughter was exactly as you described, her stuff was EVERYWHERE no matter what I did. We tried:point system, rewards, punishment, every organizational system under the sun and then some. She just wasn't able to keep track of things. I wouldn't say she was blatently unwilling, just...unaware, I guess. She would walk over clothes on the floor without even realizing it and weave around a pile of books or toys to reach her door. After trying everything I could think of, I finally came up with my "last resort". I took everything, and I mean everything, out of her room. The stuff that was precious to me went in a bin in my closet and everything else went in the trash. Even her clothes went to goodwill. I left her with three denim jumpers, three shirts,three pairs of tights, four pairs of undies, two pairs of socks and two pairs of shoes. She had her sheets and a blanket, one stuffed animal and her Bible. That was it, seriously. I was that sick of it. Imagine her disgust at having to wear a denim jumper every day! (She's more of a jeans and t-shirt person). I didn't buy her anything new and if she did get something it went in the trash the first time I saw it on the floor or left around the house. I couldn't have any compassion on this one issue. If it was something valuable I gave it to the needy instead. She got to be very good at putting her things away so that they didn't get dumped after losing the first few things. I tried to do this with a cheerful and not punishing attitude as I didn't want her to resent it, but learn from it. I'd say it took her about six months or so to really form a habit of putting things away where they belong. We've gradually brought back more things, but will probably never have as much as she originally did. This happened when she was 11 yrs. old and she is 15 now and doing well. She can still be disorganized, especially with her schoolwork, but she sees it as a weakness she has to watch out for. And she recognizes that she is a person who needs limited distraction, and limited "stuff" to take care of. She is much happier this way. I don't know if you'd have to go as extreme as I did, but I just wasn't going to live that way any longer. We have nine children and she herself was making a bigger mess than the other eight! Hope this helps, good luck! Mary:001_smile:

 

WAAAAAAA it's not funny, it really s__ks! I've already done that with the clothes thing. :svengo: LOL!!!!!

[MrsMe]

my policy is to call them from wherever they are and have them come pick up or clean up a mess they left behind them. Yesterday, I made my DD9 come home from playing at a neighbor's house just so she could hang up the coat she'd left on the den floor. Yes, it was more trouble for me to go next door and get her than it would have been to pick up the coat myself. Yes, the neighbors probably think I'm crazy. Don't care. I should not be the one inconvenienced by her thoughtlessness/laziness, and unless I inconvenience her, she's not going to learn to do better. So she not only had to hang up the coat, but I found another chore for her to do, too, while she was home.

 

SBP

 

Love this!:lol::lol:

[sagira]

You described my dd9 perfectly. I know I was the same way at her age (and at 16), but my parent's didn't really care. Frankly, they were messy, too.

 

Sorry to say I never grew out of it :o

 

However, I think my ds is better at cleaning up than dh and I. He likes things to be cleaner naturally, so if he wants his room clean, he has to do it, nobody else would do it for him :lol:

 

But you couldn't tell by looking at the house right now :tongue_smilie:

 

To the OP, there are books on cleaning for kids.. at the library.

[Handmaiden]

Out of desperation, I recently took a week off from school and spent about 4 hours a day working with the kids on decluttering and cleaning their rooms. We got rid of TONS of stuff and now it is much more manageable for them. Still working on habits, but it now takes 5-10 minutes for them to pick up daily to keep their rooms neat.

 

I found videos on youtube of a British reality show called How Clean Is Your House? Two women go around the country looking for the grossest, messiest homes, then do an amazing decluttering/cleaning makeover on the homes.

 

The kids watched it with me, and I told them that if they didn't develop good habits now, they would end up just like some of those people. They loved the videos and it motivated them greatly! A picture paints a thousand words!

[MrsMe]

Out of desperation, I recently took a week off from school and spent about 4 hours a day working with the kids on decluttering and cleaning their rooms. We got rid of TONS of stuff and now it is much more manageable for them. Still working on habits, but it now takes 5-10 minutes for them to pick up daily to keep their rooms neat.

 

 

 

Done this too LOL!!!!!:lol::lol: I'll try the video you linked to.

[Lovedtodeath]

That sounds just like me. I started taking (among other things) Tyrosine for ADD adn now I can do it.

[Lovedtodeath]

Oh, and growing up, our house was spotless and tidy and I had several chores. My mom did less than half of the housework by the time it was divided among Dad and the kids. I was trained well, but I cannot do it when left on my own.

[anotherblessingus]

Flylady.com It will change your life. One baby step at a time. This website has helped me so much. It has great stuff for kids too. In my house I have 7 children, my oldest is 12 and their rooms are clean every morning by breakfast.

I helped them get organized and from there on it was their responsibility to take care of their stuff. No they did not like it, but who is the parent?? Now they love their rooms. I hope this helps.

[SBP]

I found videos on youtube of a British reality show called How Clean Is Your House? Two women go around the country looking for the grossest, messiest homes, then do an amazing decluttering/cleaning makeover on the homes.

 

 

Oh, wow. I've spent half the afternoon watching this show! Why on earth are other people's messes so addictive? :tongue_smilie:

 

SBP

[MrsMe]

Flylady.com It will change your life. One baby step at a time. This website has helped me so much. It has great stuff for kids too. In my house I have 7 children, my oldest is 12 and their rooms are clean every morning by breakfast.

I helped them get organized and from there on it was their responsibility to take care of their stuff. No they did not like it, but who is the parent?? Now they love their rooms. I hope this helps.

 

 

Ah...been there. LOL!!!! My house is pretty clean and uncluttered, till you know who comes through!!!!!! :lol:

[TMarie]

Put the monkey on your dd's back and leave it there..... For example: When dd comes to a meal or snack, say "Do you have the freedom to eat with us right now?" If she says yes, and her room or whatever is a mess, she needs a consequence administered because she lied about it

 

:iagree: I needed this reminder! It is work to keep them accountable for their own chores. A wise lady once told me:

 

"Kids do what you INSPECT, not what you EXPECT."

 

ABQmom, can you give some ideas for consquences?

[kellycbr]

"I am anal and I know I'm anal so I try not to be that way with her. (I was one of those who put all my crayons back in their original order in the box and never, ever broke them). She's one who breaks her crayons and peels all the paper off (GASP!). So knowing I'm anal, I've come a long, long way, won't buy her another one. "

 

 

My Mum is like this, and growing up I kept my room neat, or more likely she did. My sister, on the other hand, sounds similar to your daughter. To this day, I have such bad memories of my mothers perfectionist housekeeping. Granted, we had a very nice, clean home, and that was pleasant to have. On the other hand, we were rarely allowed in the living room because she wanted it perfect for company, and we weren't allowed to hang anything on our walls in our bedrooms because it had to look the way she wanted it to look. Our room was never "our" room. We also never learned to clean because our mother liked to do it her way, and would simply go behind us and redo whatever we did. So why bother helping?

 

Fast forward 20 years, and I find myself with a home that never looks as clean as I would like, because I really hate to clean. There is some subliminal message going through my head that it will never be good enough, clean enough, etc., so why bother? At the same time, my home really is clean enough, I just like people to be relaxed in their own home, so its just not perfect, but it is our Home, not just mine:).

 

My mothers criticism haunts me today, and I started tuning her out at home, starting with her obessive cleaning. Good luck finding a solution for both of you. My mom never considered our relationship while she created a show house. You're a good mom to recognize that this is creating a wall between you and your daughter. You've received great advice from everyone, so I'm sure you both will work this out.

Edited April 10, 2009 by kellycbr
Forgot the quotation marks

[MrsMe]

My Mum is like this, and growing up I kept my room neat, or more likely she did. My sister, on the other hand, sounds similar to your daughter. To this day, I have such bad memories of my mothers perfectionist housekeeping. Granted, we had a very nice, clean home, and that was pleasant to have. On the other hand, we were rarely allowed in the living room because she wanted it perfect for company, and we weren't allowed to hang anything on our walls in our bedrooms because it had to look the way she wanted it to look. Our room was never "our" room. We also never learned to clean because our mother liked to do it her way, and would simply go behind us and redo whatever we did. So why bother helping?

 

Fast forward 20 years, and I find myself with a home that never looks as clean as I would like, because I really hate to clean. There is some subliminal message going through my head that it will never be good enough, clean enough, etc., so why bother? At the same time, my home really is clean enough, I just like people to be relaxed in their own home, so its just not perfect, but it is our Home, not just mine:).

 

My mothers criticism haunts me today, and I started tuning her out at home, starting with her obessive cleaning. Good luck finding a solution for both of you. My mom never considered our relationship while she created a show house. You're a good mom to recognize that this is creating a wall between you and your daughter. You've received great advice from everyone, so I'm sure you both will work this out.

 

My mom had a clean house. It was cleaned once a week, but it wasn't sterile and my mom wasn't quite as anal as yours LOL!. But not like our neighbor. Our neighbor wouldn't let her kids play on their beds!

 

I'm far from this. I NEVER clean my house, but I do not want to have to clear toys from my island everytime I eat or kick toys out of the way to pee or wash my hands. So I desperately try not to be obsessive. I let her keep her stuff out for a few days then it has to be picked up. If she creates something I let her keep it out for about 4 days. But when you can't sit on the couch or she takes dishes in her room and leaves them there for days (this isn't allowed by the way, but I do it to see how long they're there before she'll pick them up) or we can't get in her room to say goodnight, I draw the line.

 

So I don't think I'm unreasonable. But I do certainly hope that this doesn't create a wall. I'm pretty lax, but I won't tolerate a toxic waste dump either. "I" have come a long way from being completely a clean freak for the sake of my dd. In fact you used to be able to eat off my floor. But now, I'm not sure (pre cleaning lady) that I'd have eaten off my table. But constant and huge quantities of clutter is not acceptable.

[Haiku]

But constant and huge quantities of clutter is not acceptable.

 

I don't let my kids eat anywhere but the dining room table because of issues with dishes left out, so I hear you on that one.

 

As far as the piles of stuff your dd leaves out, could you get a few laundry baskets to keep around and just toss the stuff into them when you walk by and see stuff out? You could then require your dd to put it all away before dinner or bedtime.

 

Tara

[MrsMe]

As far as the piles of stuff your dd leaves out, could you get a few laundry baskets to keep around and just toss the stuff into them when you walk by and see stuff out? You could then require your dd to put it all away before dinner or bedtime.

 

Tara

 

LOL! Done that too. :lol::lol:

 

Nobody can help me. I think I've done almost it all. It's funny at this point and like to commiserate with others at this point. :cheers2:

[Peela]

I grew up messy, with a mother who was fairly messy too but who hired a cleaner, and lost it with me every few months and kept me in all day Saturday until I cleaned my pigsty.

I have a Born Organised husband who simply cannot relate to mine or my daughter's messiness. But once I found Flylady, I was ok, because I was on the path to healing, and I have been fine since. Not always tidy but I know how to tidy, and Dh hasnt complained for years about my housecleaning skills.

However, dd14 has inherited my genes and leaves stuff all over the place.

What I do , I learned from Flylady. I have tried writing routines on the fridge and they only work if *I* reinforce them, and I am just not so good at being consistent. SO, when its time to clean- I break things down into small chunks. I do it with ds13 too, who is hardly a neat freak, and basically, we all clean together, often several times a week, sometimes only once. One job at a time is manageable, a whole room is just overwhelming. So, its a vacuuming job, a pick up your books job, a pick up your dirty cups and plates job.

My dh cant understand my compassion for my dd's messiness. He loses his temper with it.