Need Parental Wisdom

[lovemywhirlygirls]

Looking for book recs or wisdom in dealing with our 11 yo dd who is exhibiting a marked increase in selfishness, entitlement, being lazy/expending the least amount of effort possible. Lots of fits with stomping feet/crying. She's definitely dealing with hormones also so we've been working hard to address the drama with as much respect and dignity as possible. Younger girls are being affected by the drama, so we need to nip it.

 

Ideas? We've talked and talked. We've tried to let her know what her actions "say" to others. She's had consequences for the choices that affect others etc.

How do we help her to work toward positive qualities? She's a wonderful girl, but these days one could easily miss that.

 

Thank you in advance for any ideas.

[myfunnybunch]

My "wisdom," such as it is: There is no magic bullet.

 

You're right on track. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep up the consequences, offer her choices and let her earn increased responsibility.

 

Don't bow to her sense of entitlement.

 

Stay calm and reasonable, even--especially--when she's stomping and crying. Don't buy into the drama.

 

Talk to her about how her behavior impacts her heart and the people around her.

 

Don't wait for her to show her positive qualities, look for them and notice them and find ways for her to express them.

 

Remember she's wonderful, especially when you're exasperated.

 

Be a strong and calm leader for her.

 

Trust your instincts.

 

Love her through this time.

 

It's not easy, but it's worth it. :)

 

Cat

Edited March 26, 2009 by myfunnybunch
typo

[MamaT]

I feel your pain. We have been experiencing this with our 12yo daughter. Part of it is hormones. Boys were SO much easier going through puberty than this girl. We correct her, talk to her, punish her, and she seems to understand. The next day, we do it again, and the next, and the next.

 

I just ordered the book Reviving Ophelia about adolescent girls from paperback swap. I'm hoping to gain some wisdom from somewhere. :001_smile:

[Staci in MO]

I was the fourth daughter. My mom saw me coming, and there wasn't anything I did that she hadn't dealt with before.

 

I remember times during my adolescence when I was *trying* so hard to pick a fight with my mom, and she just wouldn't cooperate. I would be doing my best to get worked up in a fit of drama, and she would continue with what she was doing (I seem to remember a lot of her standing at the stove, stirring, during these episodes :lol:). And in the end she was say something bland like, "Okay, you've had your say. Will you please go get the clothes out of the dryer?"

 

Drove me crazy. But, there really wasn't much of a payoff for me to act ridiculous, you know? And, my mother and I never had any of the throw-downs that so many of my friends had with their mothers.

 

The few times she did show some exasperation, it almost felt like a victory. It sounds absurd to me now, but I vividly remember feeling a twinge of disappointment when I didn't get the dramatic response that I felt I deserved. I really thought I was entitled to a tearful apology for the drudgery and injustice that was my life (you know, like in the movies). My mother getting angry would have *at least* justified my belief that I was the most persecuted young girl on the planet. But her calmness and refusal to bow to my demands made it hardly worth the trouble to throw a fit.

 

I was a delight, let me tell you.

 

Blessings to you in this season of life. I'm right behind you, and I can only pray to handle things with the grace that my mother did.

[MamaT]

Thanks for the insight Staci. I'm going to try this today with my dd. My husband always says "she plays me like a piano." I'm going to be non-responsive today.

[hillfarm]

Let me know how the nonresponsive thing works. We are just on the tip of this particular iceberg, with dd at age 10. But just this week I have seen the tears, the drama, the arguing, and the minimal expenditure of energy (that one really gets me!).

[lovemywhirlygirls]

Thank you ladies! I appreciate your comments and experiences. They help me put all of this in context. I don't really need a magic bullet, I don't guess. Just some encouragement to stick with it hour by hour by dramatic hour. :D

 

You ladies encourage me.

Thank you.

[Jean in Wisc]

I have no idea if this is where your daughter is...but maybe it will help someone.

 

When my children reached an age where they were no longer little, I always talked to them about becoming an adult. I told them that this was the time in their lives when they started becoming an adult. Their hobbies and what they did around the house needed slowly to take on the life of the adults around them. I gave examples of how I did not play with Legos or dolls; I sewed for the house and family, I cooked, I decorated the house, and I cared for the people in the household, too.

 

Then I started handing responsibility over to them...kitchen duties, household duties. They were in charge because they were growing up. "If you want more freedom, then you need to take on more responsibility." When the child was ready for this, they seemed to accept and understand what I was saying.

 

Over time, my kids have taken on more and more responsibility. This has helped them get through the hormone period because they were no longer acting and being treated like a little kid all the time.

 

FWIW,

Jean

[FourOaks]

Thanks. These comments are wonderful to hear as I too have an 11ds who is exhibitting ALL of these same emotions. I have 3 more following behind her (9 yr old twin girls and an almost 4 yr old girl). I am near tears or crying at least a few times a week because I cannot figure out what to do. I want to have their hearts and help them through puberty, but I am also concerned about their attitudes, etc. There is drama here EVERY DAY, ALL DAY LONG with 5 females in the house. They all come by it naturally because I am a drama queen. It's exasperating!! I need to hear from women who have been there, done that!

[FourOaks]

oops. . .meant to say 11dd. I have 4 girls.

[BakersDozen]

I have found the Bright Lights book to be marvelous with my just-turned 13yodd. It addresses heart issues in a beautiful way. I highly recommend it.

[lovemywhirlygirls]

Thanks for the book tip. I'll go check it out. I giggled when I saw your siggy. Lots of girls in your family....so it's important to get some good resources early on, huh? I've just got 3, but no boys. The odd number (which I dislike) and the lack of boys makes it an interesting dynamic.

 

I was the 4th child, a "Whoops" to older parents. My siblings were 18, 20 and 23 years older than I was. I grew up as the youngest child, the only child and the first born (since I was the only one in my group). I have virtually no life experience of what my girls experience having 2 other kids around ALL the time and having both of them be girls. I always try to take that into account as I'm wading through the parenting waters.

 

Never a dull moment! Sending out prayers to all mothers this morning...for patience, wisdom and CREATIVITY. :D

 

Have a great day!

[lllll]

Looking for book recs or wisdom in dealing with our 11 yo dd who is exhibiting a marked increase in selfishness, entitlement, being lazy/expending the least amount of effort possible. Lots of fits with stomping feet/crying. She's definitely dealing with hormones also so we've been working hard to address the drama with as much respect and dignity as possible. Younger s are being affected by the drama, so we need to nip it.

 

Ideas? We've talked and talked. We've tried to let her know what her actions "say" to others. She's had consequences for the choices that affect others etc.

How do we help her to work toward positive qualities? She's a wonderful , but these days one could easily miss that.

 

Thank you in advance for any ideas.

 

I second what Jean in Wisc wrote. I would also warn against tacking too much of the behavior onto the 'hormone' thing. That would make it awfully easy to ignore the behavior and just chalk it up to hormones, IMO. (At least, that's what I would probably end up doing.)

 

We have 3 dd's (16, 18, & 20) and one of them (18yo) does seem to be a little more emotional than the other two. She was always this way. She was this way when she was a toddler and she's still this way at 18yo. She's also the only dc (of 6) who just seems to need to be doing something (preferably with her hands) all the time.

 

To me, the problem has been teaching her to control her emotions instead of being ruled by them. At least, that's the angle I approached it from (Biblically). And it's only been in the last year or so that she's made any real progress in this area. So you may be in for a long haul. Pace yourself.

 

A few things that seem to help her (and me):

 

Keep her busy. Not just busywork, but real stuff. Our dd now does all her regular chores and school, plus dh is teaching her to handle the family finances. She absolutely loves this. For a younger dd, it might help to let her 'shadow' you as you work, doing as much as she possibly could of the 'real' stuff - just like her mom.

 

Physical exercise/work. Takes her mind off herself. Our dd runs, gardens, rides her bike, swims in the summer, walks/hikes with anyone who happens to be going, etc. She seems to be happiest when she has the 'Outside' chore list.

 

Walk and talk. I've logged tons of hours walking and talking with this dd. I listen to her talk, hug her when she cries (tears seem to come spontaneously to her), and whatever else she needs at the time.

 

Let others help. When I get too frustrated with my seeming inability to 'solve her problems', I ask dh to take over for a while. She's not crazy about this, but it gives me a break for a short time. She's also said that now-25yos has helped her a lot. On their walks, he is able to help her reason her way out of these emotional 'binges' using Bible passages. She finds this very comforting. (I'm not so good at remembering verses as he is.)

 

Write. She seems to find it helpful to write, sometimes.

 

There are limits. Don't let it turn into an emotional blackmail predicament. Just because she's a more 'emotional' dc, doesn't mean she can get away with things like temper tantrums, disrespectful talk, rude behavior to the rest of the family, etc. I never allowed any of this. Even as a toddler. It does not help her to allow these kinds of things; not to mention the rest of the family.

 

And finally, there is a book which I had read and recommended to her. She just told me a couple weeks ago that it has helped her immensely. It's "Spiritual Depression: Its Causes and Cure" by David Martyn Lloyd-Jones. Maybe you could use it to help your dd.

 

Well, that's all I can think of for now. HTH.

Edited March 27, 2009 by ksva

[MamaT]

Thank you Kathy. That is good advice that I needed to hear. I planned on implementing the non-responsive attitude yesterday, and I found it is harder than it sounds. I couldn't do it! I allowed her to goad me into an argument. I am going to work on this.

 

I love your advice, especially about not allowing her emotions to rule her. She does write, especially when she's angry about something. (I don't even WANT to read it). She has books and books of journals. She also has lots of interests. One thing you mentioned that I especially need to do is to walk/talk with her. I find myself caught up emotionally myself and pushing her away. I do NOT want to do that.

 

Has anyone else read the book Reviving Ophelia? Did it help?

[yslek]

I've read Reviving Ophelia, but my dd was a toddler at the time. :) I don't know how much it would help, as a lot of it is focused on how societal expectations of girls change in the adolescent years, especially in the ps scene. Another book to "balance out" Reviving Ophelia might be this one: http://www.amazon.com/Sense-Self-Listening-Homeschooled-Adolescent/dp/0867094052, which is much more positive in outlook. Don't know if that'll help much, either. I don't remember enough of it. Hope things get better for you soon. :grouphug:

[TeacherZee]

I really don't have any BTDT advice from the parent point of view but I WAS that girl. And for what it is worth I think you are on the right track.

 

The idea about finding her good sides and her strong points is a really really good one. But don't focus on one specific thing (ie don't always tell her that she is good at maths or that she sets the table beautifully) because that could make her feel like that is the ONLY thing she is good at.

 

I am also with the person who said don't blame it all on the hormones. She might just be more sensitive.

 

I know you do but I want to say love her loads. Take time with her. Maybe do something together just the two of you every week or even just once a month. I was a bit older (17-19) where due to certain personal reasons I ended up having about 2 hours a week in the car with either my mum or my dad. This was great for me. It was just the two of us and we could TALK. I didn't feel silly and we didn't have to look at each other. It was a safe place where I could tell them what was bothering me or what was making me happy and try and figure out my way in the world.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

This too shall pass

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[dangermom]

I'm not sure how much attention I'd pay to Reviving Ophelia. I think it may be a bit outdated by now. She talks a lot about how societal expectations for girls shut them down and silence them in the classroom etc. For example she claims that girls don't do as well as boys in school because they can't be seen as intelligent and teachers obviously favor boys. Well, now that girls dominate the honor rolls and college campuses, and we're struggling with keeping boys interested in school, that might not be so relevant any more. Etc.

[MamaT]

Thanks for the advice. I'm just about at my wits end with this one. I have lots of experience with boys, but this stage with girls is SO different.

 

She is having a sleepover tonight with a few of her friends. They will be taking over the basement as her big brother is out of town. I reminded her, since they will be down there with a television and a computer, about the rules regarding watching what is appropriate, computer rules, no cell phones after 10:00, etc. She flew off at me and told me I was treating her like a child. I told her that she is a child and I AM the parent and will remind her of rules when I feel it is appropriate. She COULD NOT shut up. She was very disrespectful when I have gone to a lot of trouble today to make the food she wanted to have, bake a dessert, clean the basement, etc.

 

She will be punished in the morning when her friends leave. I'm not sure how, as nothing works. I would call the whole thing off, but her friends are already en route to my house. It is so frustrating!

[BakersDozen]

She will be punished in the morning when her friends leave. I'm not sure how, as nothing works. I would call the whole thing off, but her friends are already en route to my house. It is so frustrating!

some may disagree, but I would drive her friends home as soon as they arrived or have their parents take them home. If my dd (or my ds's) gave me attitude like that I would nail that issue right then and there. She says you are treating her like a child and she just proved that she IS a child and throwing a tantrum is unacceptable, period. The issue in this situation is a lack of respect for you and that gets dealt with seriously around here.

 

It's hard for them and for us, isn't it? We have to be ready at all times to respond and deal with things, hopefully in the right way. Keep us posted as to how this goes with your dd!

[rainforest mama]

some may disagree, but I would drive her friends home as soon as they arrived or have their parents take them home. If my dd (or my ds's) gave me attitude like that I would nail that issue right then and there. She says you are treating her like a child and she just proved that she IS a child and throwing a tantrum is unacceptable, period. The issue in this situation is a lack of respect for you and that gets dealt with seriously around here.

 

It's hard for them and for us, isn't it? We have to be ready at all times to respond and deal with things, hopefully in the right way. Keep us posted as to how this goes with your dd!

 

:iagree:

 

I would hope that I would have the courage to do this. IMHO it is disrespectful of your daughter to treat you like this. My DD10 is also much more difficult than she was even a year ago, but DH and I have tried to be consistent in our approach to her. We will not allow her to disrespect us. She has been sent to bed early on several occasions when she has gotten too lippy.

[lovemywhirlygirls]

:iagree:

 

I'm at a place right now with my dd that getting her heart on track is SO important that I believe I would turn them all around and take them back home. It's that important. I'm feeling like I did when I decided to homeschool. It's just THAT important. Something has to be done. Worth the anger from dd, worth the disappointment for the other girls, worth being thought of by the other girls'/girls' parents as super strict, or weird or whatever. UGH. So much easier to wait until the morning.....but so much more of a clear statement if you do it tonight.

 

Sending prayers for courage and wisdom and guidance.

[MamaT]

I did not read this until just now - after I've got all the girls here, fed them pizza, and sent them downstairs. I know I should have nipped it in the bud and sent the girls home, but I feel like our relationship is so tenuous right now I'm unsure and second guessing myself.

 

I am going to have a pow-wow with her dad in the morning and decide on a no excuse, deal with it course of action with her. I feel like I have let her get away with WAY too much and we are going to have to be in agreement and serious about stopping this behavior.

 

I have been a parent for 22 years, but this is new territory for me. My boys would have never talked to me that way. She is taller than I am, and looks like she is 15, so I feel like she is too old to spank. On the other hand, I think maybe that's what she needs. Do you spank an 12yo girl? If my boys had talked to me this way at 12, I'm pretty sure their dad would have handled it that way. But girls?

[gamommy]

I don't really have any answers either, but felt compelled to chime in as another mom who's in this place. We also have 4 dds, our eldest is 12 and we are so there!

 

It's a frustrating, dramatic, and hormone-filled ride. I want to get it right this first go around because everything around here seems to trickle down to the others all too quickly. Our next youngest is just 17mths behind and just turned 11. Then we have some bigger gaps.

 

Reading your original post it sounds similiar to our approach. I do need to try not to get drawn in. According to dh (who as a public hs teacher spends more time with teens than I do) I'm way too easily drawn in. He agrees that we need to hold dd to certain standards, but also feels that the her contrary nature and selfishness are somewhat par for the course. I do admit that when I look at many of her peers at church and from our local h/s group that much of her behavior that drives me wild is actually not that bad.

 

Please do keep us posted. It makes me feel so much better to see how others are naviagating through this.

[wyomom]

Phew! What a relief to read all these posts. I was sure I had completely messed up my girls and have been feeling extremely inept and unqualified as a mom along with a little panic because we just had our third dd two months ago. LOL!

 

My 11 yr old dd had an exceptionally dramatic week this week with the whole entitlement thing going on which drives me crazy. Also, the lack of effort in daily tasks has been a battle. This more so with my oldest dd who is 13. She is getting somewhat better but wow that is sending dh and I over the edge. She wants to quit anything that requires work and just coast for awhile it seems. UGH!

 

The lack of self control with the screaming and crying is much more evident in our 11 yr old dd at the moment. Along with the greed and selfishness which is really affecting her relationship with the rest of the kids. It is hard to to have peace and harmony in the home when the hormones are running the show.

 

Thanks to all of you who are giving advice on how you deal with this.

[lovemywhirlygirls]

I thought it might be interesting to note that I "started" early this morning. Day 26 which is NOT normal for me. I swear she's geeking my schedule. She has not yet begun her cycle but her worst days (for the past 3-4 months) have been 2 days before my period. Yesterday and today she has been MUCH better. My cycle has not been regular since I noticed the timing for the two of us. It's been 1-4 days short or long. I'm usually like clockwork.

 

Note that I do not suffer strong PMS. My biggest clue that something is going on is my dramatic increase in the desire for chocolate.

 

FYI in case this has any bearing on anyone else' experience.

[angieathome]

One technique I use that is non-escalationg is to very kindly ask your dd if she would please do (say) that over again in a nicer way. In that way, you are not implicitly endorsing the bad behavior, but neither are you escalating. It gives her a chance to make a wiser choice. Then, if she chooses to be nasty, the need for a consequence will be much more obvious.

[MamaT]

dh and I are about to take all her tech stuff away. She is a very techy girl, so this includes her ipod, cell phone, computer (she makes her spending money buying and selling on ebay), television. We will do this for a week, and extend it until she gets the message. If that doesn't get her attention and she says anything remotely disrespectful to her dh or me, or is unkind to siblings, she will get a nasty chore (like cleaning all the baseboards in the house, etc.).

 

Does this sound about right, too harsh, not enough?

[Katiebug_1976]

:lurk5: Did I write this subconciously? This sounds just like my house. I hope you find something that works, I am also looking for answers/ideas.

[FourOaks]

Well Tammy, how did it go this morning? How did she react to removing all her technology? I am following this thread so closely as I am right there in the thick of it too!

 

Thanks to all of you who have openly confessed that girls and boys are SO MUCH different! I spent weeks (possibly months) this winter in depression, and I know that this was on of the causes. I was just so torn about how to raise my girls so that I will have their hearts and they will be wonderful, kind, respective young women. I was feeling pressure from all my homeschool mom friends (not that they have any idea or are trying to put pressure on me) because many of them just seem to think things are very cut and dried and kids will respond similarly to the same punishment/consequences, etc.

 

I believe God was really working on my heart this winter because I finally came to realize that NONE, not ONE of them has the same dynamics in their own households. They ALL have male/female kids -- and I'm talking lots of homeschool friends! Yes we all homeschool, yes we all have kids in the same age ranges, but I am the ONLY one that has 5 females in the house and ONLY female kids. I finally realized that the dynamic is different in our home and that GOD intended it that way. I am now trying to embrace the fact that our home is very emotionally-charged and drama is key around here.

 

I am looking for very specific ways to deal with attitudes in these girls. And although they are all highly emotional and dramatic, each one has a very distinct personality. I am just so thankful for all of you who are openly sharing some of the things that have or have not worked with your girls.

 

I am empathetic Tammy!!!

[BakersDozen]

but I feel like our relationship is so tenuous right now I'm unsure and second guessing myself.

 

I would bet your dd realizes this and that is ammunition for her. Whatever you do, do with confidence (at least outwardly), calmness, and consistency. Those 3 things will show your dd that you are in control both of yourself and the situation (even if inside you are feeling anything but in control).

One technique I use that is non-escalationg is to very kindly ask your dd if she would please do (say) that over again in a nicer way. In that way, you are not implicitly endorsing the bad behavior, but neither are you escalating. It gives her a chance to make a wiser choice. Then, if she chooses to be nasty, the need for a consequence will be much more obvious.

my13yo is told, "Stop, try that again." many times during the day. It definitely serves as a training technique to show them that they are speaking disrespectfully. I have found that if I hug her or put my hand gently on her in a loving way, her heart responds better than if I simply tell her to try her words again. A smile also works wonders, even if I want to frown at her.

 

She is taller than I am, and looks like she is 15, so I feel like she is too old to spank. On the other hand, I think maybe that's what she needs. Do you spank an 12yo girl? If my boys had talked to me this way at 12, I'm pretty sure their dad would have handled it that way. But girls?

Well, I've told all of my dc that they are never too old to be spanked. If their behavior is that bad, if they have crossed every line and not responded to my correction, then yes, I will and have spanked. The last time I spanked my 12yod was about a month ago (before that it had been many months) and she just was horrible to me and her siblings. I warned her that she was headed for a spanking, she could not get her self-control, I spanked her and watched a total transformation happen. It wasn't a shallow change or short-lived one, either. It was as if she saw that there was a boundary, she crossed it, and I helped her come back in that boundary.

 

Again, I highly recommend the Bright Lights books for moms/daughters to go through together. We have several girls who will be doing it with us so there will be accountability.

 

lol, maybe there should be a forum for moms going through the preteen/early teen girl stage?