dirty ethel rackham Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Not contradictory at all. I'm an atheist. I think we can breed at 12 or 13 because it is at that age that we can reasonably assure the survival of our offspring. Not true. The risks of complications to the mother and to the child are VERY high at this age. Risks to the mother include severe pelvic floor damage including obstetric fistula and resulting infections. Risks to the baby include very low birthweight and prematurity. This is not just a factor of lack of prenatal care, but a lack of physical maturity. This is NOT the ideal breeding age. Early 20's is the ideal, if you are speaking from the biological perspective of survival of the offspring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsdash Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 In a word...no. My oldest dd is 17. She has never had a boyfriend or a date. My next in line is 14 and I plan on it staying the same way. That nonsense gets in the way of what they should be concentrating on. It clouds their thoughts and they lose common sense. no,no,no. I suppose when they are done with childhood they can engage in a romantic relationship so 18 sounds like a good start to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_claire Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Not true. The risks of complications to the mother and to the child are VERY high at this age. Risks to the mother include severe pelvic floor damage including obstetric fistula and resulting infections. Risks to the baby include very low birthweight and prematurity. This is not just a factor of lack of prenatal care, but a lack of physical maturity. This is NOT the ideal breeding age. Early 20's is the ideal, if you are speaking from the biological perspective of survival of the offspring. Hmm, not from what I've read. I've read that around 14 or 15 is the physically ideal time. But that part really isn't worth debating, as I would not want a 14 or 15 year old of mine to have a kid anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I disagree whole heartidly. I think teen pregnancies and STDs abound because of parents not teaching their kids about how to hve sex safely. Abstinance only education has been shown again and again to increase the rates of STDs and teen pregnancies. Teach your kids how to use a condom and birth control medication! That's how to prevent STDs and pregnancies. How 'bout teaching them both? Condoms have a high fail rate. I certainly don't want my teenager taking artificial hormones. Their own hormones haven't even stabilized yet. I think most people on this board expect their children to wait for marriage. I don't- I believe people should live together before marriage. BUT- I think young people (especially girls) are not ready for the emotions of a sexual relationship when they are 17 or younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krista in LA Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Okay, I'll be another one of the few who would let dd have a boyfriend. My dd was 12 last summer when a boy that we know well from church and tkd classes asked my dd "out." I was fine with it because we knew him so well. I believe they saw each other three times outside of class and tkd - his mom and I took them and his cousin to a movie once, dd went swimming at his house once, and she went out on their boat with them once. So obviously they were supervised at all times. It barely lasted 3 months and although dd likes boys, I don't think she is even interested in having another "boyfriend" at this point. Now if he had gotten drunk before, I would not have allowed it and would discourage her from even being friends with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Not contradictory at all. I'm an atheist. I think we can breed at 12 or 13 because it is at that age that we can reasonably assure the survival of our offspring. I was just make an argument for the theists out there. :) I am also an atheist, BTW. I just don't think it's healthy physically, emotionally, or mentally for young teens to be having sex. Hmm, not from what I've read. I've read that around 14 or 15 is the physically ideal time. But that part really isn't worth debating, as I would not want a 14 or 15 year old of mine to have a kid anyways. Obviously you're playing a bit of the Devil's Advocate here. I'm wondering- what do you want for your children? Do you want them having sex as 12-15 year-olds, using condoms and birth control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepy Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 No. We won't do the dating thing here as long as they are living here or hit 18 or so. I see no reason for dating, particularly at 12. I'm not a big fan of recreational dating anyway, but I desire that my kids focus on goals and plans, saving themselves for who God has planned for them. I'd like to assist them in not having a bunch of emotional baggage right off the bat if and when they someday get married. I just think it's a dangerous little world for kids that age...something they know nothing even close about how to handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Thanks for a real response. :) I agree that expecting doesn't mean it needs to be encouraged, my concern here is that many people don't teach their kids how to practice safe sex. That means that when they do experiment (and in the vast majority of cases it will be when, not if), they will not know how to be safe.. I agree with this. And people, can we just talk to our children about their bodies? In my dd's health class at school, dd was the only one who would actually say the names of body parts out loud. Everyone else was too embarassed. Just like its important to have many friends so you can get along well with many people, and you learn what is important in a friendship, I feel the same way about relationships. The first person you date may not be a great match for you. But you may not think anything better is out there. Or you may feel like you can't change your mind at that point. By encouraging an atmosphere where they can have multiple relationships, I think they will get a much better and mature idea of what they want in their partner, and of what they have to offer. I agree with this pretty much 100%. I think I just disagree with you on a timeline for having physical relationships. I don't think this should start until 18 or 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Very good points. I think that while they may reach adulthood with their hearts whole however, they hearts will be weak and easily broken at tha point. I'd like them to learn that breaking up isn't the end of the world. Most relationships don't last. It shouldn't break their heart if theirs doesn't. I think kids can learn a lot from "breaking up" with friends also. You don't need to be dating to have a break up experience, or to get dumped. I disagree that hearts will be weak and easily broken if people don't date at a young age. I think if one is a bit more worldly when they have their first break-up from a more serious relationship, they will know that it hurts now, but they will work through it. I think it's the young kids who have a break-up that are devastated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I disagree that hearts will be weak and easily broken if people don't date at a young age. I think if one is a bit more worldly when they have their first break-up from a more serious relationship, they will know that it hurts now, but they will work through it. I think it's the young kids who have a break-up that are devastated. Yes, and especially if the relationship has become physical. Sex adds another whole emotional dimension to it. Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepy Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 It seems like so many here think daiting should only be for marrying. What if you kid doesn't want to ever get married? Should they never date? I think daiting is about having intimate relationships. I think 12 is a bit young, I wasn't interested at that age, but if the girl is interested, then I say why not. And by intimate, I don't nessisarily mean sex, as I said, I would expect nothing more than kissing at that age. But as they got older, of course I would expect them to experiment with sex. I think 15 or 16 is a very good age for that. And yes, I know I am inviting flames on that one. But honestly, if you don't let your children date people, how will they know what they want in a mate? If they never have sex until they are married, what if they hate how their spouse is in bed? Isn't that a rather crucial detail to ensure you are a good match with before you tie the knot? And don't give me they are too young for that. It is only in very recent times that men were expected to be virgins at marriage and that women did not marry at ages like 13 or 14. And for the religious ones out there, if you think God designed people, why would he design them to be able to bear children at 12 and 13 if he did not expect them to be having sex then? ok, bring on the flames :cheers2: huh. I think the teen years are a great time for academics. Spelling comes to mind. ;) Dating gets in the way of the real learning that needs to be done, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I think teen pregnancies and STDs abound because of parents not teaching their kids about how to hve sex safely. Abstinance only education has been shown again and again to increase the rates of STDs and teen pregnancies. Teach your kids how to use a condom and birth control medication! That's how to prevent STDs and pregnancies. But of course that's not the whole picture. There are plenty of young people who are well educated about safe sex, but still find themselves in trouble. The impulsive nature of a teen certainly plays a significant roll in contributing to STDs and pregnancies. Which is the reason I don't want my young teens in dating situations. They shouldn't have to face those decisions at that age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetTN Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 No. Absolutely not. For any reason. Boys as friends : yes, ok. Boys as boyfriends: No. Ain't happenin' here. :iagree: When our dd sees this going on around her, she refers to it as "putting yourself on the market". I think she is awfully smart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in AR Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Of course not. What a ridiculous question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Jenny Flint Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 No. I want to do things for my kids that will set them up for success now and in the future. Involving them in "romantic" relationships when they are not equipped to handle them or their outcomes does nothing of the kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara R Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Also, I'm curious, the girls you kne who got pregnant. Did they get adaquate sex education? Did they use condoms and prescription birth control? You do realize that even with condoms or prescription birth control, there are high teen failure rates? Over 1/8 of sexually active teens using the Pill are pregnant within 2 years. Over 1/4 of sexually active teens using condoms are pregnant within 2 years. Teens are a very fertile bunch, and so birth control fails more often for them than for older, less fertile folks. Remember that each of those failure rates equals a pregnancy, and that pregnancy either becomes a baby or an abortion. Birth control is usually sold in popular culture as a sure-fire way to prevent teen pregnancy, and it just isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 There are an awful lot of 12 year olds that have boyfriends, so obviously not everyone agrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in AR Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 There are an awful lot of 12 year olds that have boyfriends, so obviously not everyone agrees with you. I'm really not interested in other people's opinions on this issue. You asked and I responded; I'm not sure why you feel the need to point out to me that not everyone agrees with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Et Veritas Academy Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 NO and in a big way- We don't allow our kids to date until 16 and then they will start with group dating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralloyd Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 No. Absolutely not. For any reason. Boys as friends : yes, ok. Boys as boyfriends: No. Ain't happenin' here. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 My 11 year old DD currently has a boy that is a friend and that makes me nervous enough! No dating/boyfriends until age 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivetails Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Boyfriends? At 12 years old???? Um, no. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I have not read all 7 pags yet but my answer is NO! I had a boyfriend at age 12, my parents thought it was all cute, by 16 I was dating a 20 yr old, sexually active etc. My plan is to allow group dates at 16 but no one-on-one dates until they are 18 and ready to start looking towards marriage. I do not want my kids getting into the dating trap too early. At 12 not on your life. You may not want to hear this, but group s*x has become much more common, and group dates are a great way to hide this kind of behaviour from parents. OR to allow kids to separate and do what they want to. "Good" kids often get in more trouble than their parents realize--there are straight A ps kids in honours programs who get drunk regularly, etc. Not that all of them get into trouble, of course, but many parents are just totally ignorant and too trusting. My sister, one of the 2 "golden" kids in my family, spent an entire year smoking pot because she was angry that we'd moved away for that year, yet got good grades, played sports and my parents had no idea--she wasn't the "troubled" one, I was. But by that point, I didn't get into trouble and was heavily involved in theatre. My parents missed the red eyes as she always got those due to low tear production, and never smelled it on her. I trust my children, but I also remember exactly what it was like to be those ages, what some of my friends were doing at certain ages, and how much younger they were starting by the time my kid brother, who was born in the 1970s, was growing up. These are the main the reasons that we're going to do courtship during our children's high school years for our son as well as our daughters. The pressure to engage in s*x is very high, and they're not emotionally ready for all that goes with that, not to mention diseases. It's not "cool" to use c*ndoms, and I do NOT condone teen s*x anyway. Not anymore, not now that I've seen the damage it so often causes, and because I have a different moral code now than I did when I was a teen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Also, I'm curious, the girls you kne who got pregnant. Did they get adaquate sex education? Did they use condoms and prescription birth control? S*x education does NOT mean that teens use condoms. Not at all. In many schools it's considered cool to have s*x without them. Teen births are going up, and most teen have had education in this topic at school. How many teens are having abortions now? Many without their parents' knowledge. What disturbs me is that on some s*x education tests when they ask about the best form of birth control, abstinence is considered a wrong answer (I think I still have that article in my files...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Not anymore, not now that I've seen the damage it so often causes, and because I have a different moral code now than I did when I was a teen. That's us. Even 5 or 6 years ago, I had a very different opinion on boy/girl relationships, when it was good or bad than I do now. My teen years I would have laughed at a parent like me. Through good and bad examples of raising teens, I feel God has firmed up my husband's and then my decision on how we're going to handle this. We want purity for our children, and I know as they get older they'll want it too. It will be our job, as parents, to help them to achieve that goal by protecting them from certain situations that they may not have the ability, emotionally or physically, to navigate. Teresa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Hmm, not from what I've read. I've read that around 14 or 15 is the physically ideal time. But that part really isn't worth debating, as I would not want a 14 or 15 year old of mine to have a kid anyways. According to doctors I know, the lowest childbirth risks come from an 18 yo having her second child, but the highest come from younger mothers. (eta this doesn't assess what's best for the baby itself, just the birthing process). The fact for humans is that a girl usually reaches menses before she has finished growing and before her body has finished totally developing. If you google "tanner stages" you'll see what I mean by this. Also, the human brain has not finished developing yet (apparently not until 25, but there are huge changes going on in early teen years that need to be finished before taking on the enormous toll of pregnancy.) These have NOT occurred by 14 or 15, and many are going on at 16. When I studied ecology & ethology, one of the biggest warning my atheistic professors had was that it's dangerous to extrapolate on behaviour, etc, from animals to humans (and often between animals). Human development is different than that of most of the animal kingdom, for better or for worse. Edited March 13, 2009 by Karin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diann Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 No way! Nor would I allow my 12 year old son to have a girlfriend. Diann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 They don't allow their daughters and the "boyfriend" to have a lot of time alone (from what I can tell), but they do allow them to call each other "boy/girl friend" and talk on the phone and hang out in groups. I think it's a mistake, personally, It worries me a bit, but the girls aren't given an opportunity to be with their boyfriends in intimate settings. I just think it's a bad precedent. One thing this board has really helped me with is finding my voice as a parent to say, "no" to things that people around me seem to allow. I guess I live in a fairly liberal world - or at least I think a lot of my friends feel less able impose their ideals on their children. When my now 21 year old was 14, he had a "girl friend." I didn't love it, but I also didn't really think to say, "no way, Jose." I did make it pretty much impossible for them to be alone together. When she was at our house, I kept a close eye. It didn't last long anyway. And SHE was the one who was pushing very hard for time alone and for s@xual intimacy. Knowing what I know now, I just wouldn't allow it. I've learned some things, and some of them I have learned from all of you. But I didn't really think at the time to say I was opposed to the whole idea of a girl friend at that age. I was more supervising how far the relationship could proceed (and back then we didn't have cell phones or a computer on which they could carry on a private correspondence, which also helped). Anyway, a LOT of people are going to think it's "okay" but my guess is that most of them are thinking it's okay in a "we call ourselves boy/girl friend but don't actually get to be alone much" kind of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Also, I'm curious, the girls you kne who got pregnant. Did they get adaquate sex education? Did they use condoms and prescription birth control? I guess it depends on what you mean by "adequate." But, yes, all of them had gone throught the sex education program at our public school. This was in the late 1970s, before "abstinence only" was the norm, and we got very detailed information and had to pass tests about various birth control methods. (Condoms on bananas and the whole thing.) All three of the girls came from middle class, well-educated, at least fairly liberal families. I know one of the girls was on the pill but, like a typical teenager, was not terribly consistent about taking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texascamps Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 :iagree: No. Absolutely not. For any reason. Boys as boyfriends: No. Ain't happenin' here. :iagree: 16, on double dates....... why accellerate the inevitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowWhite Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Twelve seems really young. I can see a friend who happens to be a boy. But a boyfriend in the romantic sense? Um..no. This is what my parents said when I was twelve. You can be friends with a boy. Act the same way with him as you would with a friend who is a girl (well, obviously no sleepovers! ;)) The getting drunk part would bother me. As a matter of fact, it would bother me that a twelve year old girl has had a potential boyfriend talking to her about the fact that he once got drunk, whether he now considers it a mistake or not. My dad always said, "It depends who is asking," when I would ask at what age dating was allowed. Age difference *is* relevant... but I married a young man 5 years my junior, LOL, so it's not all-encompassing. I think "stages of life" is more encompassing. If you have a high schooler pursuing a middle school student, or a senior in college (or person of that age in the workforce) pursuing a sophomore in high school, that can present a problem. When my dh and I started dating, sure I was 24 and he was 19, but we were both adults in the workforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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