Work ethic in the US

[amyinva]

This is a spinoff from another thread, and I have completely forgotten which one (sorry I can't give credit). Anyway, someone posted the following link:

 

http://www.2mminutes.com/lesson-plan/default.html

 

I found the part about the US being a sports and entertainment culture very interesting. And true, IMO. As a society, I don't think we teach our kids to glean satisfaction from their work efforts, we teach them to "have fun" or "relax" through tv, video games, sports, and other extracurriculars once they have gotten their work over with.

 

I'm interested in this not because I necessarily think academic excellence is the ultimate goal, but because I think our country's work ethic is going downhill fast. Other countries feel free to chime in, I don't mean to leave you out. I just don't know if it applies elsewhere.

 

So, how do we teach our kids to appreciate work?

 

Oh, and I have not looked at this website beyond this page- I just found it thought-provoking. Which for me in my current pregnant and frazzled state, to have an actual thought provoked, is pretty good. ;) Amy

[Ottakee]

I didnt' look at the article but my dh just started working for the state--as an automotive technologies instructor for the prision system---training inmates that are nearing relase so that they can get a job when they get out.

 

Many people that he works with keep telling him to SLOW DOWN, DON"T WORK SO HARD, etc. and on and on. It is like they are saying do the MINIMUM that must be done to keep your job but certainly don't try your hardest to do your best, etc.

[Tutor]

I think it is connected to the elevation of youth in our culture. We generally uphold youth as an ideal and our children are taught to "just be kids". I think that there is value here to an extent. I think that encouraging children to be excited about who they are now and enjoying the now without always looking back or forward can help teach contentment. However, we have to remember that we are raising adults, not children, and I think that sometimes we (I definitely include myself in this) forget to teach our children to gradually put away childish things as they get older and learn to be content as teens and adults as they reach those stage. There is great joy in being a teen or adult and working hard and being satisfied in having greater skills and abilities and desires, but I am afraid that we get stuck in the dreams of children (with their shorter attention spans and greater need for "wow") and don't enjoy the challenges and responsibilities of adulthood with its accompanying satisfactions of achievement and truly enjoyable respites like playing with our children.

 

And to answer your question and get off my soapbox :) , I think the best ways to teach children to work are:

- give them responsibilities as soon as they can handle them and increase the responsibilities as their abilities increase

- treat responsibility like the reward it is; when a child shows responsibility in one area, reward them with responsibility in another and let them know it's a reward, "You've been so good with helping me unload the dishwasher, you have shown that you are responsible enough for a more grown-up job. Tomorrow I'll teach you how to make salad and salad dressing!"

-let kids see you enjoying work; my kids will always point out when they hear me complain about work ("If you don't like to clean the bathroom, Mom. And I don't like to clean the bathroom. Can't we give the job to someone who likes it? When I get big, I'm not going to do stuff I don't like."); I don't always succeed at not complaining (I really, really hate cleaning the bathroom and taking out the dog), but I try to be aware of it and quickly remind them that there is even greater satisfaction in doing a job well when it is a job we don't particularly like

Edited February 19, 2009 by Tutor

[klmama]

So, how do we teach our kids to appreciate work?

 

 

 

I think simply teaching them TO work is the most important thing. Many parents don't expect their dc to do any work around the house, well past the age at which they should be able to contribute SOMETHING to the family. Even a 4 year old can pull covers up on a bed, put dirty laundry where it goes, set the table (provided the dishes are in a low cupboard), and put dishes in the dishwasher. Hand that child a dust pan and wisk broom, and he can sweep the entryway if you show him how.

 

As far as appreciating work? That comes with knowing they have helped. Say things like, "You worked hard at that! I'll bet you feel good about doing such a great job!" Work with them as much as possible, so they see how it's done. And model a good attitude about work yourself. If they hear you griping about work, that's what they will do, too.

[TeacherZee]

There was an article in The New York Times that links to this. It was about the entitlement culture specifically in conjunction with university students expecting As simply for showing up and handing in the work. It might interest some here.

 

Article is here

[Aubrey]

Otoh, we are also a nation of workaholics. The avg # of hrs worked per week for Americans just surpassed Japan a couple of yrs ago.

 

I did a project on Japan for a children's museum a while back, & I remember looking at pictures of little boxes that people would rent, so they could stay in town & work long hours during the week, only going home on weekends.

 

I have a feeling, though, that both the overindulgence in entertainment & the workaholism are likely symptoms of the same problem, though I can't quite put my finger on what the problem is. Perhaps some kind of inward-focusedness? Something like having an easier time dealing w/ computers, images, whatever rather than people? That might be a stretch, but it's something I kind of wonder about.

 

Have to go educate my kids now! ;)

[Laura Corin]

DH was persuaded not to follow his dreams for a career, settling for a more 'practical' route. He's adamant that our boys should be encouraged to follow their dreams (with the proviso that they be able to support themselves). He has now finally found a career that fascinates him, but for many years there was a gulf between what he was interested in and what he was trained to do.

 

He did a good job during those years nonetheless (which takes us back to the themes of responsibility and pride in your work) but it was an enormous strain on him to be doing jobs that were so unsuited to his personality.

 

Not sure where that takes us...

 

Laura

[amyinva]

That is interesting, because I was encouraged to follow my interests rather than thinking practically, and now I am paying student loans for a degree that is not practical for me to use, and wishing I had gotten a nursing degree so I would have a way to earn money that would fit in to my family's schedule and needs. I am encouraging my kids to try to find a practical direction for their interests, I wonder if that is a sufficient compromise or if they will be telling my grandchildren to follow their dreams so they don't regret it.

 

Aubrey, I wonder how many of those work hours are spent working and how many are lost to dealing with emails, IMs, etc. Are we working efficiently and being more productive than a generation or two ago, or are we just putting in longer hours because of the changes in technology and a greater tendency to lose time to non-productive matters?

 

Interesting stuff...

[farmgirlinwv]

My dh works about 55-60 hours a week. He is salary, no OT. Now he works hard to support our family in difficult economic times. He's in the construction industry. He has spoken to many other businessmen who all agree w/ him that this current generation is not generally given to hard work. My dh even is disgusted by the older people in his office who are not given to hard work. He's one of the youngest people there and he is the manager. He really feels this entitlement mentality w/ everyone. Some of the older people won't learn the new technology, but still want to keep their job and get paid for sitting around or running errands. Not gonna happen. I think it all started w/ the baby boom generation. Their parents worked their butts off to make life better. When we do that for our dc, generally, they become a *softer* generation. I think we've done that w/ every subsequent generation. Naturally, I'm over -generalizing. We find that people don't want to work hard from the people who think they are entitled to early retirement (something that's never happened in society's before) on down to the current generation. This will certainly work in the favor of the gov't.

[Laura Corin]

That is interesting, because I was encouraged to follow my interests rather than thinking practically, and now I am paying student loans for a degree that is not practical for me to use, and wishing I had gotten a nursing degree so I would have a way to earn money that would fit in to my family's schedule and needs. I am encouraging my kids to try to find a practical direction for their interests....

 

I do expect them to be able to support themselves, so that might lead naturally to 'a practical direction for their interests'. I'll also make sure that they understand the trade offs between their dreams and the lifestyle that a career might support.

 

Laura

[Sarah CB]

We live in a town where it's hard to find enough workers. It's also a rather nice place to live (if I do say so myself) so we get people moving here because they want to enjoy the outdoors. Now when people are being interviewed they're asking about "lifestyle". They want to know how much they'll get paid, what perks they will get, and whether their job will interfere with their "lifestyle". It's all about "work-life balance". People run from their jobs as early as they can in the evening. It seems like there's a lack of personal responsibility - like if something crazy is going on at work it doesn't stop just because it's 4pm. Sometimes you just have to stay and sort it out, but there aren't a lot of people willing to do that.

 

There are a number of different sectors in our town that are dealing with this (government, tourism, corporate, etc.). It's hard to find qualified people and it's even harder to retain them.

 

There is a rotten sense of entitlement that has filtered down to the high school kids as well. An entire class of kids got their noses out of joint because they felt they "deserved" more than minimum wage for working at McDonalds. So they wrote in to the newspaper saying how unfair it was that they were paid minimum wage and they could barely afford to go to the movies. Ugh.

[Parrothead]

I found the part about the US being a sports and entertainment culture very interesting. And true, IMO. As a society, I don't think we teach our kids to glean satisfaction from their work efforts, we teach them to "have fun" or "relax" through tv, video games, sports, and other extracurriculars once they have gotten their work over with.

 

 

I think a lot of the sports and entertainment culture is because that is what we are given - and accept.

 

There isn't much choice when it comes to TV programming. By not demanding more than sports, sit-coms and reality TV we have closed off something. (I"ve got this head cold and not thinking clearly. I can't find the words that I want.)

 

Even the news is geared toward entertainment instead of real news. For example the whole fascination with Brittney Spears. The news seemed more of a soap opera than news for quite some time. Actually I quit watching it so I don't know if it is any better.

 

I wonder what would happen if TV programming changed. What if we had more shows along the lines of Masterpiece Theater? What if the news went back to being news? And I mean news without the constant spin - the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.

 

Would people begin to think for themselves again? And once thinking for themselves would they want more? Then in wanting more, would they want more (intellectually) for themselves? I think after a time then people would go back to a higher standard for themselves in every thing they do, including work.

 

I know it sounds simplistic and sounds like it places the blame on the entertainment industry, but really it is our own fault for not demanding better for ourselves from what ever the source is.

 

If that doesn't make a bit of sense to anyone blame it on the head cold. The brain is trying to engage, but probably not succeeding very well.

[klmama]

My dh works about 55-60 hours a week. He is salary, no OT. Now he works hard to support our family in difficult economic times. He's in the construction industry. He has spoken to many other businessmen who all agree w/ him that this current generation is not generally given to hard work. My dh even is disgusted by the older people in his office who are not given to hard work. He's one of the youngest people there and he is the manager. He really feels this entitlement mentality w/ everyone. Some of the older people won't learn the new technology, but still want to keep their job and get paid for sitting around or running errands. Not gonna happen. I think it all started w/ the baby boom generation. Their parents worked their butts off to make life better. When we do that for our dc, generally, they become a *softer* generation. I think we've done that w/ every subsequent generation. Naturally, I'm over -generalizing. We find that people don't want to work hard from the people who think they are entitled to early retirement (something that's never happened in society's before) on down to the current generation. This will certainly work in the favor of the gov't.

 

 

You are so right! My dh also works about 60 hours a week. His company is hiring. They've been hiring for years. They can't get enough good people to fill the positions. There's a long line of folks wanting the mail room and administrative assistant jobs, but the jobs that require people to update their skills regularly and learn new technologies just aren't getting filled. Meanwhile, I speak often with folks in that same field who can't find a job and don't understand why they never get hired, even though they apply everywhere. Umm... make the effort to meet the hiring requirements. Take a few classes to update your skills. If you aren't willing to put in that minimal amount of work, you need to find a new field.

[mazakaal]

I think it all started w/ the baby boom generation. Their parents worked their butts off to make life better. When we do that for our dc, generally, they become a *softer* generation. I think we've done that w/ every subsequent generation.

 

I think you're right on target here. Of course, it is a generalization, and there are many exceptions of people who do work hard. But I think the parents of the '50s who were working so hard to make a better life for their kids, ended up making things too easy for them. And the problem is just perpetuated as time goes on.

 

I see the same thing here in England. There are obviously some very hard working people, but many people would rather just go on the dole (welfare), and there is little incentive to work to get off the dole. Sad.

[amy g.]

This is one area where I really have to say that I feel I've been successful if I do say so myself.

 

Practically every week, someone comments on my kids' awesome work ethic.

 

When Mr. Clever went to Boy Scout camp, the cleaning schedule was drawn up quite wrong. His patrol had clean-up after every meal. Another patrol only had one meal to clean up after. He never made one comment about the unfairness. He just worked, and taught the other boys in his patrol how to clean up as well.

 

The parents who were on the trip were quite shocked by his behavior.

 

In Art class, when the other kids are complaining that the assignment is too hard, and they can't do it, my girls just keep plugging away at it until they complete the project.

 

During Ike, we had no water. The kids had to haul buckets of water from the pool to flush the toilet and water the animals. By the time morning chores were over, they had about an hour to sit down before they had to start on evening chores. I could not believe that not one child complained even when this went on day after day.

 

My dad pointed out that my husband and I never complain about working, so the kids naturally emulate us.

 

I believe that it also helps to have a HABIT of work. Mr. Clever is sick and has a fever, but this morning, the chickens still needed to be fed and let out of the coop. I could have done his chores for him, but I decided it would be better for him in the long run if he got up and did them himself. He gave me a big hug (I hope he didn't breathe on me) and said "Thank you for all of my chickens and ducks. I just love them, and I love living here." I guess he doesn't even know how bad he has it.

 

I do believe that if children see their parents happily working hard, and are expected to work themselves from a young age that they will find working hard to be a joy instead of a burden.

 

I do not think this is a lifestyle promoted buy our country's popular culture, so I am very careful to screen the outside influence that they are exposed to.

[Audrey]

Otoh, we are also a nation of workaholics. The avg # of hrs worked per week for Americans just surpassed Japan a couple of yrs ago.

 

 

 

 

No. Sorry, but hours spent at a job is not at ALL the same thing as hours spent WORKING.

 

You can spend 100 hours a week AT a job and produce absolutely nothing. I think N. American work ethic generally stinks. We expect high pay for little effort and then turn around and teach our kids that they're entitled to that, too.

 

Labour jobs are scoffed at for a variety of reasons, but when you get into it (and I do) you find that people in general labourer jobs that are non-N.Americans and have a better work ethic than N.Americans in general.

 

IMO, it all goes back to this "culture of entitlement." :glare: I don't teach my kid that he's entitled to anything. He isn't. No one is. I believe you either work for what you want, or you don't get it. Even, then there's no guarantee you're going to get it. But, if you aren't even willing to work for it in the first place, then boo-hoo for you. Suck it up baby.

[The Governess]

I think part of it is the times in which we live. Over the last 20 years, technology has rapidly changed so much of our work landscape. A lot of industries have seen huge jumps in efficiency and production as better technology makes things easier for workers. In some cases, workers could put in the bare minimum and, due to these work landscape changes, still show an increase in production and profit for their employer. They get a pat on the back for a bad job and it reinforces the idea that work ethic doesn't matter.

 

I think when times are going well, and it's possible to make a profit even if you've done a poor job, it's easy to get lazy. Maybe one positive to come out of the downturn in the economy will be that the relationship between hard work and the end result (a promotion, a profit, the ability to keep your job) will become more significant.

 

I realize this theory doesn't apply to all industries...I'm thinking more of corporate-type jobs. And I know that there are many people in corporate jobs who will still work hard even when their peers are trying to skate by. But I have noticed this trend in my own work experience and dh has too.

[Murphy101]

I think simply teaching them TO work is the most important thing. Many parents don't expect their dc to do any work around the house, well past the age at which they should be able to contribute SOMETHING to the family.

 

:iagree:expectation of themselves and of others. not only are my children expected to work hard, they see their siblings and parents working hard too.

 

Otoh, we are also a nation of workaholics. The avg # of hrs worked per week for Americans just surpassed Japan a couple of yrs ago.

 

thsi can cause the backlash effect of "I work my bloomin' bum off and I want something to show for it the one day I have off work, so by golly I *deserve* to be able to play"

 

you might argue they really aren't working their bum off, but I wouldn't claim it to be universally true. and there is some truth that we have to be careful to remember that we work for a living, not live to work.:)

 

You can spend 100 hours a week AT a job and produce absolutely nothing. I think N. American work ethic generally stinks.

 

true. but not all of that is the employees fault either. many times they are held back by bosses, coworkers, and sheer dumb regulations.

 

you know how it's generally accepted that a LOT of time is wasted in classrooms in dozens of ways? well the same is true in work environments. in fact, schools train to perpetuate the problem by insisting on team grading and such that basicly prevent, discourage, and impede individuals from striving for greater and doing more.

 

my dh works his bum off at his work. he is recognized as a top performer in nearly every area. despite that he is constantly being told that he is intimidating to co-workers and his boss and that he needs to slow down so the team can develop as a whole. doesn't matter that the customer could care less about his team, they just want his project finished right and on time.:glare:

 

He spent an hour today listening to a mandatory tele-conference about how everyone needs to work on their time management skills because his boss didn't want to single out the 2 employees on the team that have barely done anything in the last 2 weeks.

 

Labour jobs are scoffed at for a variety of reasons, but when you get into it (and I do) you find that people in general labourer jobs that are non-N.Americans and have a better work ethic than N.Americans in general.

 

bottom line is most people don't want to get their hands dirty and they certainly don't want to break a sweat while doing it either. even though some of the best paying, most guaranteed work involves hard physical labor.

 

many people consider themselvess too good for such work:glare:

[HRAAB]

No. Sorry, but hours spent at a job is not at ALL the same thing as hours spent WORKING.

 

You can spend 100 hours a week AT a job and produce absolutely nothing. I think N. American work ethic generally stinks. We expect high pay for little effort and then turn around and teach our kids that they're entitled to that, too.

 

Labour jobs are scoffed at for a variety of reasons, but when you get into it (and I do) you find that people in general labourer jobs that are non-N.Americans and have a better work ethic than N.Americans in general.

 

IMO, it all goes back to this "culture of entitlement." :glare: I don't teach my kid that he's entitled to anything. He isn't. No one is. I believe you either work for what you want, or you don't get it. Even, then there's no guarantee you're going to get it. But, if you aren't even willing to work for it in the first place, then boo-hoo for you. Suck it up baby.

 

Yup! :iagree: Our girls have been raised with work ethic, and so far - of the two that are working - it has paid off. They have been praised by their employers. At the same time, they've been shocked by the attitude of other employees who seem to feel they should only do what they feel like. My oldest dd's manager told me she'd never had an employee with my dd's work ethic in 20 of managing retail. One thing I did right.

 

Janet

[Audrey]

:iagree:expectation of themselves and of others. not only are my children expected to work hard, they see their siblings and parents working hard too.

 

 

 

thsi can cause the backlash effect of "I work my bloomin' bum off and I want something to show for it the one day I have off work, so by golly I *deserve* to be able to play"

 

you might argue they really aren't working their bum off, but I wouldn't claim it to be universally true. and there is some truth that we have to be careful to remember that we work for a living, not live to work.:)

 

 

 

true. but not all of that is the employees fault either. many times they are held back by bosses, coworkers, and sheer dumb regulations.

 

you know how it's generally accepted that a LOT of time is wasted in classrooms in dozens of ways? well the same is true in work environments. in fact, schools train to perpetuate the problem by insisting on team grading and such that basicly prevent, discourage, and impede individuals from striving for greater and doing more.

 

my dh works his bum off at his work. he is recognized as a top performer in nearly every area. despite that he is constantly being told that he is intimidating to co-workers and his boss and that he needs to slow down so the team can develop as a whole. doesn't matter that the customer could care less about his team, they just want his project finished right and on time.:glare:

 

He spent an hour today listening to a mandatory tele-conference about how everyone needs to work on their time management skills because his boss didn't want to single out the 2 employees on the team that have barely done anything in the last 2 weeks.

 

 

 

bottom line is most people don't want to get their hands dirty and they certainly don't want to break a sweat while doing it either. even though some of the best paying, most guaranteed work involves hard physical labor.

 

many people consider themselvess too good for such work:glare:

 

 

Right on, sister! :D

 

It chaps my hide the way people will talk down about labourer jobs. Yes, they get their hands dirty. And, where would any of us be without people like them? How many would deign to take on such tasks -- let alone be physically capable of performing them?!

 

On a personal level, I hear the most obnoxious farmer jokes sometimes, and just downright rude comments like "oh, I'd never marry a farmer -- the smell!" and "they can't be very bright if all they can do is farm." Well, the next time they go to the store to buy groceries they can thank their stupid, stinky farmer for bothering to grow food for such an ignorant, ungrateful jack** like them. :rant:

[laughing lioness]

I remember reading about 5 years ago how the city of NY had to eradicate all of the solitaire games from the city computer systems because people "at work" were spening HOURS playing solitaire instead of working.

So, no, just cause you're "at work" doesn't mean you're doing work.

[Peela]

I just think its more about our society being selfish and self centred.

I dont think "work" or a work ethic is a solution to the problem of shallow, 2 second attention spans, addiction to pleasure and entertainment, lack of self discipline, an inability to step up to normal levels of responsibility, etc etc. We as a culture (Australia being just a slightly less extreme version of the U.S.) dont grow emotionally past the age of about 12.

But pushing a heavier work ethic is just a bandaid because the issue is just so much deeper. I actually prefer the vision of people working only about 4 or 5 hours a day paid work (no unemployment then), then getting on with other parts of their life, like community service, growing a garden, playing with their children, having fun etc etc. Life isnt all about paid work and there are plenty of workaholics out there who are not balanced people, who dont spend time playing with their children, who work for companies which simply exploit resources or people or 3rd world countries etc. It's just that we value having "stuff" so much that we sacrifice our kids to the altar of consumerism and then wonder why they don't jump at it. Why work 60 hours a week? For what? Just so that we have a roof over our head? Just so that we can buy more stuff, or a bigger house to keep it all in? Our values are wrong from the ground up, and more work isnt going to change that.

If we consumed less, were happy with a modest home, a modest income, our imprint on the planet would be healthier, we could spend more time with our kids, in nature, forming healthier communities, etc. We could volunteer our time for projects and spend time with our elders.

As long as we only think in terms of ourselves and our immediate family, what is best for us, what we want, society as a whole can't change.

My dh works maybe 25 hours a week and supports us well. I work maybe 5 hours. He mentors young men and he has set up several in businesses where they literally earn a decent income (gardening and landscaping in a wealthy suburban area) on a couple of days work a week. One guy I know works one day a week and supports his wife- they all have employees and most are under 25! Why do they need to work more if they can live on that?

I think it takes creativity, initiative, imagination, thinking outside the box, not just more work hours. Doing more hours of the same won't change things for the better. I also think it matters very much, what type of work people do. It has to be ethical. Why any child would aspire to sitting in an office for the next 50 years, I cant imagine.