Let's make a list of non-degree career options for struggling youth

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

 

Somedays it feels to me like unless lyou’re cut out for a STEM degree, life is just stacked against you(but I may be overly pessimistic). 

That’s certainly how it’s presented.

21 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

If you hate school, you may not enjoy learning to be an IT or an electronics tech or a mechanic in the armed forces either.

I imagine it depends on what you hate about school. My dad wasn’t a fan of school but liked to learn. He did well in the military in electronics, and (obviously many years ago) found good jobs after college. He didn’t stay in the field for geographic reasons—he didn’t want to move. He had two other siblings do electronics in the military. One stayed in, and it wasn’t lucrative, but he had rental houses, and his wife was a go-getter after he retired. The other went into IT long-term and did well also.

I don’t know what current opportunities are in the same field.

[kbutton]

Robotics is big here with entry level jobs that come with basic certifications that can be earned in high school. Opportunities to move up, but not bad pay from what I understand if you’re not that excited about additional training. Very hands-on.

[frogger]

You are going to see huge disparities in replies not just because regional differences but also in ability differences. 

I know many who make 6 figures working their way up without a college degree, even in the younger generation. Nephew is only 29 for example and makes good money but also is managing people already. I also know people with college degrees who aren't really qualified to do much. You have to choose in area and work your way up regardless and everything is a risk. 

If you are less capable of problem solving, higher math, running a business,  leading people, or handling stress you will likely not make big money whether you go to college or not. In our society you are probably less likely to go to college if you don't like those things (so it is somewhat a sorting mechanism)  but if you are capable of those things you can certainly succeed without the degree. Some paths will be cut off from you. My brother for example designs stuff for the plant he runs but certain things require an engineers signature because he doesn't have his PE license despite having the ability. He still makes 6 figures and runs the whole place.

But the average person who doesn't have those skills and wants to take a position that doesn't take a lot of training or special skill will make very little money. 

 

Regional differences are huge because their is efficiency in clustering. If you start a business where there isn't skilled labor to employ you are at a disadvantage. My son regrets his electrical engineering degree because it will only help him license for basic construction because our location. He could have learned what he needed for that in a year or two but school drags it out. There is one robotics company up here making crawlers for testing pipelines but his degree didn't teach him what he needs for that nor does he need a degree to work therr. Lol 

 

So absolutely geography is huge. Bigger than most people realize. But so is ability. No matter what you will have to invest in one way or another in your education as mentioned above. Union apprenticeships aside as they are paid for by you and other members from membership dues. 

 

[Brittany1116]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:54 PM, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

The local radiology school is connected to a hospital. You can do a two year associate’s degree program in conjunction with the local community college or a much shorter certificate program through the hospital in radiology tech. Most people do opt for the degree(probably because financial aid is then available) but it’s an option.  It’s definitely longer than the 120 hour phlebotomy or CNA classes but still not more than six months long, and often the hospital will hire a student and pay them a student wage during clinical time, then they    have a good full time job on graduation.

Due to the current emt shortage, many companies around me are hiring people, paying them minimum wage during a three month every day EMT class that includes driving training and company specific protocols, and they graduate as cleared EMT and can start working as soon as they graduate. Then a while later they’ll pay for paramedic school.

 

Our shorter cert/degree programs mention3d in the first half are all offered through the CC. I don't know about EMT, but know someone who did it when he just had to find something briefly. He had a very low drive for education, so it was probably short path plus money that decided it for him. He got burnt out fast. 

On 12/28/2023 at 9:17 PM, Lori D. said:

If willing to do a community college vo-tech program for a 2-year AAS degree, or a trade school for the specific job education & training, check and see what kinds of programs are available in your area. Some that are available in my state:

Arts
- Culinary Arts (chef/cooking)
- Digital Arts, Web Design, Graphic Design, Animation
- Film/Video production
- Game design
- Fashion design
- Audio production

Beauty / Fitness / Wellness
- Aesthetician (skin/beauty specialist)
- Cosmetology
- Massage Therapy
- Sports Medicine

Business
- Accounting
- Hotel & Restaurant Management
- Retail Management

Computer
- CAD (Computer Aided Drafting)
- Cyber Security
- Software Programmer/Analyst
- Systems Administration/Networking

Driving
- Truck/Bus Driver (commercial license)

Education
- Early Childhood

Legal
- Court Reporting
- Paralegal

Medical
- Dental Assistant/Hygienist
- Medical Asst./Lab Tech/Records/Transcription
- Nuclear Medicine Tech
- Nursing
- Pharmacy Tech
- Phlebotomist
- Physical Therapy Tech
- Polysomnography (sleep study technician)
- Radiology
- Respiratory
- Sonography (sonogram tech)
- Speech Language /Pathology Assistant
- Veterinary Tech

Public Safety
- EMT/Paramedic
- Fire Science
- Law Enforcement

Safety & Water
- Occupational Safety Inspection
- Hydrologic (water resource technologies)
- Water Tech (waste water)

Trades
- Apprentice Meat Cutting
- Auto/Aviation
- Carpentry, Construction
- Electric, PHVAC, Plumber, Pipefitting
- Insulation
- Ironworking
- Machinist, Sheet Metal, Welder
- Millwright (large equipment install/maintain)

Other
- Interpretation for the Deaf
__________________

And then there are short-term (anywhere from 4-weeks to 1-year) education/training programs for certificates:
- bartender
- court stenographer
- fitness trainer
- locksmithing
- massage therapist
- OSHA inspector / safety training
- pet groomer
- pet trainer
- real estate agent / home inspection / licensed home appraiser

Or working in a specific industry, via hands-on training and work your way up:

“green” technologies & industries
variety of types of jobs working with: bio fuels, conservation/ecology, geothermal, hydroelectric, photo-voltaic (solar), water sustainability, wind turbines

transportation
- Forklift Operator
- Railroad: Union Pacific Railroad
- Trucking (Pima College)
- Light Rail Conductor

utilities
- variety of types of jobs working for plants that process: electric, gas, water, waste water

I know of several people who have made working at Costco into a decent career, starting at the bottom and working their way up.

Alll but one of the medical programs listed here is available at my nearest CC as a 2 year  program. They do a lot to help you make connections with local hospitals and offices and new grad job placement percentage stays in the 90s. They are very competitive and many applicants find themselves doing a year of recommend courses/or job shadowing. The applications are given points and the pool is large every new term, so prior experience and extra education is almost expected. It can take 3+ years to get the 2 year degree. BTDT

4 hours ago, SHP said:

I agree with you re her behavior. However she is not wrong about how many of the things mentioned here are not accurate. I have gone back and forth about if I should point out all the errors or not. I haven't because I am not up for the debate. So many of the things listed require more than high school education and many things attributed to a 2 year degree are now a 4 year degree. Some 2 year degrees or a certification with the understanding that the person in the field will need to continue their education for their career to keep up with technology changes. 

To anyone looking for a no college career path talk with Vocational Rehabilitation in your state. You will likely be offered a warehouse type job no matter potential. 

If you want to know what the pay is in your area go to your state to find out what the pay really is. It gives a more accurate, and often depressing, look at the pay. Or look at job ads, though when I went to pull some up I noticed many didn't include pay. 

 

Several 2 yr degrees end in licensing that must be renewed with CEU/CME every year or few years. 

4 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

This is a thread for ideas and possible paths to explore. My assumption on anything posted here is that I will evaluate the fit for the teen in question and dig into my local options. I value the thread because I need ideas to research.

I think there are regional differences also—it really comes down to what programs or specific options are available right where you live. 

Last part. Yes, it really only matters what is available where you are or are willing to live. And I assume someone who doesn't desire extended programs or college doesn't want to move. 

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

CMA in my area is 6 months of classes (of which about half is coursework and half is hands-on lab) followed by 3 months of paid internship (@ $20-24/hr) while prepping for the exam. There's such a shortage here that many places are offering big sign-on bonuses plus guaranteed raises at 6 & 12 months, and even retention bonuses after 12 and 24 months.

I know someone who just got her CMA in my general area (not where I would go for it because of distance but close enough that I could choose it if I needed to), and it took her a solid year. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Brittany1116

[frogger]

I will say often shortages make people race to a program and you end up with a glut. Radiologists were in high demand here but I personally now know 5 radiologists or people in training now. 5 years ago I knew 0 so I worry people just starting training now may find the jobs filled. 🤷‍♀️

[SHP]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

Somedays it feels to me like unless you’re cut out for a STEM degree, life is just stacked against you (but I may be overly pessimistic). 

It feels that way to me as well, but that is because the local community college cut their arts program and ditched almost all fine art degrees. They kept graphic design, the rest? Gone. The reason given was so they can streamline students. The focus is on getting almost all classes offered as 8 week so students can do 2 semesters in one. So money. 

This is really bad for students who want to get an associates but need or want a fine arts focus and students who may struggle with a subject and need the full 16 weeks for the course load. College can be hard enough without increasing the workload, especially for students with learning difficulties. 

I find it frustrating. When I was the age of a traditional student the only people who could access the accelerated classes were "adults". 19 wasn't considered an adult, had to be over 25. Now I would like to slow down and just enjoy some of the course. As a parent I am thrilled to have the option for my kids and frustrated that they have the option at the same time. My mini-me thinks that at 16 they should be taking 22 credit hour semesters and it doesn't help when the advisor encourage it. 🙄 

[Rosie_0801]

Beekeeping doesn't require a qualification. There are lots of reasons why it mightn't be viable though. 
 

Most people will need a salaried job somewhere, but it's nice to have a hobby that makes a bit of money. People pay other people to take up trousers and stuff like that.

[historically accurate]

35 minutes ago, Brittany1116 said:

Our shorter cert/degree programs mention3d in the first half are all offered through the CC. I don't know about EMT, but know someone who did it when he just had to find something briefly. He had a very low drive for education, so it was probably short path plus money that decided it for him. He got burnt out fast. 

Alll but one of the medical programs listed here is available at my nearest CC as a 2 year  program. They do a lot to help you make connections with local hospitals and offices and new grad job placement percentage stays in the 90s. They are very competitive and many applicants find themselves doing a year of recommend courses/or job shadowing. The applications are given points and the pool is large every new term, so prior experience and extra education is almost expected. It can take 3+ years to get the 2 year degree. BTDT

Several 2 yr degrees end in licensing that must be renewed with CEU/CME every year or few years. 

Last part. Yes, it really only matters what is available where you are or are willing to live. And I assume someone who doesn't desire extended programs or college doesn't want to move. 

I know someone who just got her CMA in my general area (not where I would go for it because of distance but close enough that I could choose it if I needed to), and it took her a solid year. 

This caught my attention - why do you assume so? Lots of kids move away "to the city" or just leave the area to get away from Mom and/or Dad. 

[Scarlett]

22 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

This caught my attention - why do you assume so? Lots of kids move away "to the city" or just leave the area to get away from Mom and/or Dad. 

For sure. I moved to the city 3 days after I graduated high school. 

[Scarlett]

My DIL took a book keeping course on line. It was paid for by her tribe. That got her a job at a Allstate insurance company. They paid for her to get her license in property, auto and life insurance. She worked there a couple of years. Then got an at home job with a new insurance company out of CA. She is a manager now and makes over 100k. 

[Brittany1116]

53 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

This caught my attention - why do you assume so? Lots of kids move away "to the city" or just leave the area to get away from Mom and/or Dad. 

I don't mean that I assume they don't want to move for the sake of moving or to get away from Mom and Dad. I mean that I assume they aren't looking to travel far to complete a program. If they are searching for a job/career that covers living expenses, what are the odds they can or will move away from where they are for 6 weeks or 6 months to complete a program?

[SHP]

55 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Beekeeping doesn't require a qualification. There are lots of reasons why it mightn't be viable though. 
 

Most people will need a salaried job somewhere, but it's nice to have a hobby that makes a bit of money. People pay other people to take up trousers and stuff like that.

For fun I checked to see if I could legally keep bees here. There is nothing saying I cannot. My yard is a postage stamp, but I can have bees.

[Harriet Vane]

Does anyone know anything about working for the post office?

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

Does anyone know anything about working for the post office?

Only that ours is desperate for mail carriers. The website spells out pretty well what the job requirements are. I looked at it awhile back, but no longer remember specifics other than there being an exam of some kind. 

[Faith-manor]

5 hours ago, KSera said:

Only that ours is desperate for mail carriers. The website spells out pretty well what the job requirements are. I looked at it awhile back, but no longer remember specifics other than there being an exam of some kind. 

Yes, there is an exam and the USPS reports a very high failure rate, 80%. 

We are in the post industrial age, and so much of what is done now requires a fair amount of academic knowledge in addition to hands on knowledge. Add to that the fact that employers no longer see a high school education as a verification of basic skills and knowledge set for all the reasons we discuss here every year. This means though college shouldn't be required for many jobs, it is often a requirement to get and interview.  The pendulum has shifted too far the other direction, but that isn't going to magically fix itself until K-12 is fixed.

The ASVAB average score is 50, and 50 is not getting anyone into any of the better programs. They accept people as low as 30, but if you want to actually get experience and training for a career, that score is not going to cut it. I know lots of kids in the area who couldn't get into the military. It is high tech now after all, and the days of accepting just anybody to keep the numbers up is long gone.

Part and parcel in all of this is health insurance tied to employment. Many of the non college routes from cosmetology to plumbing do not come with health benefits. While some trades, like electrical journeyman, can be with companies large enough to provide that, many tradespersons do not have health insurance or have to buy it with high deductibles and out of pocket expense on the marketplace. This is a huge struggle for my stylist who is amazing, but has health problems and easily sees a huge portion of her income go to health expenses. Universal healthcare for all might solve some of these issues and allow Gen Z and Gen Alpha to have many more employment options or start their own  businesses.

[ktgrok]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:46 PM, Faith-manor said:

This is spot on. It is often state by state specific and sometimes within states, community specific. It is hard to say what is going to work in a different region. Then add to it that the trades licensing and tech certifications can also be very different state to state.

yup - I saw Activities Director at nursing home/assisted living mentioned, and in my state that now requires a degree I'm pretty sure. My mom used to be an Activities director when I was in highschool and she was able to be grandfathered in due to having done the job for so long - I know she had to gather a lot of paperwork and such and maybe take a test and it was iffy for a while if she'd keep her job. I'm not sure if the requirement is a law or just the way the industry staffs/hires now, but it was a big issue that my mom only had an LPN and not a Bachelor's degree.