thoughts on this.....associates degree vs years of experience

[ProudGrandma]

I have a friend who is 35 years old.  She has a high school diploma, but never finished college.  She has worked at our local school for 10 years as a para. 

She is considering going back to school to get an associates degree in an education field.  She is hoping to make more money.

I would just hate for her to go to all of the trouble to take 60 hours of classes only to find out that her 10 years of experience closes the gap of pay raise that a degree without the experience would make.

I know, of course, there is no way to know for sure....I did suggest she talk to an education person on the campus she is considering attending.  But I was curious if anybody here would have some insight into a situation like this. 

Thanks. 

[Clarita]

Another suggestion I would have is to look at actual job listings. If she is already currently working she may be able to ask her current employer about it as well, in terms of "Hey I want to make more money/have more responsibility/be promoted to a particular position. How can I reach that goal?"

I say "may" because I've only had job experiences in corporations, that is acceptable to ask in a corporate setting. I know sometimes school setting is different. 

If the place she is working at demands an associate degree, she can still look at job postings online for the position she is looking for and see if that is an and or an or requirement for those positions. Even apply to a few places with her 10 years experience and see the offers she gets.  

[Danae]

The district almost certainly has a handy chart that shows pay levels and what the increase is for education and for experience. 

[ProudGrandma]

1 minute ago, Danae said:

The district almost certainly has a handy chart that shows pay levels and what the increase is for education and for experience. 

good thought.  I will see if she can find that....thanks. 

[Arcadia]

7 minutes ago, kfeusse said:

I would just hate for her to go to all of the trouble to take 60 hours of classes only to find out that her 10 years of experience closes the gap of pay raise that a degree without the experience would make.

In general, for the same field, her 10 years of experience is still valid. So she should not be making the same pay grade as someone with an associate degree but no experience. My experience is only for private employers though.

Also the max pay would be different for high school diploma and for associates usually even for public sector. For a 35 year old, it would likely be worth it in the long run.

[ProudGrandma]

Just now, Arcadia said:

In general, for the same field, her 10 years of experience is still valid. So she should not be making the same pay grade as someone with an associate degree but no experience. My experience is only for private employers though.

Also the max pay would be different for high school diploma and for associates usually even for public sector. For a 35 year old, it would likely be worth it in the long run.

great.  Thanks.  I also think doing this will boost her confidence and would do her good in other ways....but it would be so deflating if it didn't have the results she was expecting. 

[Kidlit]

28 minutes ago, Danae said:

The district almost certainly has a handy chart that shows pay levels and what the increase is for education and for experience. 

This, at least in my experience.  I recently moved out of the field of education proper, and one of the good things I can say about it is you KNOW what you're going to make.  In my state, there's a salary matrix for teachers, and I assume there's one for paras, as well. 

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, Kidlit said:

In my state, there's a salary matrix for teachers, and I assume there's one for paras, as well. 

e.g. Los Angeles https://www.lacoe.edu/Portals/0/LACOE/HumanResources/2021-22 CSEA SALARY SCHEDULE R.pdf?ver=2021-09-29-081208-123

Edited June 9, 2023 by Arcadia

[Ottakee]

Well, in our district it is purely by years employed.  There is no extra benefit for experience before your current employment started and no benefit for education.

I have a teaching degree in special education, 8 prior years experience but I get paid the same as an 18 year old with no experience.  

[Kidlit]

32 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Well, in our district it is purely by years employed.  There is no extra benefit for experience before your current employment started and no benefit for education.

I have a teaching degree in special education, 8 prior years experience but I get paid the same as an 18 year old with no experience.  

So a teaching degree is not required in your district?

[Katy]

This is so location dependent it’s hard to know. One of DS5’s vision teachers was a para for 11 years for a child who was blind, and when that child graduated she decided to become a vision teacher. Apparently there’s a fast track to both a bachelor’s & master’s degree for paras with I don’t remember how many years of experience here. The school district paid for her education and the post graduate training for vision instruction. Another vision teacher we know went the traditional route and went back to school for it when her husband went blind. 

[Ottakee]

7 hours ago, Kidlit said:

So a teaching degree is not required in your district?

Not for paraprofessional 

[Kidlit]

1 hour ago, Ottakee said:

Not for paraprofessional 

Got it.  I was confused.  Lol.  
 

One thing that has happened locally to paras here is that they are no longer employed by the school system.  They are now hired through employment agencies and thus have lost their good benefits (like state retirement).  My sister worked as a special ed para for years and thankfully was grandfathered in, so she was vested before she quit.  Because of the low pay, the benefits were the draw.  I'm not sure now how they're getting or keeping paras.  

[Faith-manor]

Here it varies by employer. College is preferred over pretty much anything with our local school districts so there is a base pay difference that is rather startling between high school, high school with experience, some college, and bachelor's degree. So a para-pro with high school and experience still makes less than with college. Some school districts will higher paras to substitute, but not without at least 60 college credits. The other thing about it is there is a fast track from bachelor's degree in just about anything to teacher certification, and a couple of local universities are giving people with associate's degrees or simply 60 credits or more a fast track to a bachelor's by giving credit for some teacher ed classes for experience in the classroom and para pro as well as substitute teaching counts making it faster to get a teaching license. Our lack of faculty on this side of the state is even worse than Ottakee's so they are bending over backwards to get anyone with 60 credits or more of college into the classroom. Once on faculty, the salary and benefits package is definitely better and has more job security.

Outside of teaching/school districts, our local employers take an associate's degree over experience with high school diploma only every time because well, some of our schools are so pathetic that the diploma is hardly worth the paper it is printed on, and those with a high school diploma only are not getting any kinds of jobs where experience without education would get you promoted or show that you have a high reading literacy or numerical competency. Even in fast food, the owners won't consider anyone without some college for shift manager. It is the unfortunate effect of dumbing down curriculum and the reputation of the public schools. The assumption is that it takes an associate's degree now to prove one has a basic foundation of core math and reading skills.

Again though, this is going to be a really regional issue so it is hard to give advice from afar.

[DawnM]

12 hours ago, Arcadia said:

e.g. Los Angeles https://www.lacoe.edu/Portals/0/LACOE/HumanResources/2021-22 CSEA SALARY SCHEDULE R.pdf?ver=2021-09-29-081208-123

Ah, the district I worked in for 17 years.   I miss it.

[Lady Marmalade]

13 hours ago, kfeusse said:

I have a friend who is 35 years old.  She has a high school diploma, but never finished college.  She has worked at our local school for 10 years as a para. 

She is considering going back to school to get an associates degree in an education field.  She is hoping to make more money.

I would just hate for her to go to all of the trouble to take 60 hours of classes only to find out that her 10 years of experience closes the gap of pay raise that a degree without the experience would make.

I know, of course, there is no way to know for sure....I did suggest she talk to an education person on the campus she is considering attending.  But I was curious if anybody here would have some insight into a situation like this. 

Thanks. 

I just completed a pair of associates degrees at 45.  I work in fast food, and certainly don't need the degrees to acheive the highest level of employment and pay that I will be receiving in the next year.

I went back for the first degree to complete the one I'd started many, many years ago. I work with kids every day, encouraging them in life. I had one conversation with a college student who dropped out with only one semester left before completing his bachelors, and at the time it was really ironic that I was encouraging him to go back when I never did.  So I did.  It was satisfying to finally graduate and have that degree, and then in a very brief moment of uncertainty for me, I decided that if I ever wanted to leave my current situation, I wanted to be able to make an advantageous move and a degree was going to make that possible, so I went back for the second one, going full time while working full time.  It was a lot, but one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had.  If money were my motivation, I could leave my job and make a vertical leap to another organization for a significant pay raise that the degree affords me when combined with my years of experience.  

If your friend has credits from her first attempt at college, she will probably be able to use them if she contacts the school.  I was able to use 23 year old classes to complete my first degree with just 5 credits. 

[ProudGrandma]

6 minutes ago, Lady Marmalade said:

 

If your friend has credits from her first attempt at college, she will probably be able to use them if she contacts the school.  I was able to use 23 year old classes to complete my first degree with just 5 credits. 

she looked into this and they actually expired several years ago so it's like she never even went to college.  

She did however, contact the school to see what her next step should be and is looking into the pay increase for experience and education just so she knows.  

[katilac]

22 hours ago, kfeusse said:

good thought.  I will see if she can find that....thanks. 

If she can't, all she has to do is call the school board. 

10 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Here it varies by employer. College is preferred over pretty much anything with our local school districts so there is a base pay difference that is rather startling between high school, high school with experience, some college, and bachelor's degree. So a para-pro with high school and experience still makes less than with college.  

Wow, I don't think anyone would be a para in our district with a college degree. Even if it were a stopgap, they could probably just hire on as an uncertified teacher (you have so much time to get certified). Paras don't make very much money around here. 

[Ginevra]

I did not step a foot into a college classroom until I was 38yo. (In part due to being indoctrinated to think there was no reason for a “girl” to go to college or have a career, unless she was planning to not marry/not have kids.) I went part time; it took me 5yrs for an Associates. I do wish I had gone further but I am extraordinarily happy I got that at least. Although it is undoubtedly better to get a bachelors or higher, I think at least getting an associate’s demonstrates something to prospective employers that is harder to convey with no college at all. 
 

Additionally, I would say it’s not necessarily a “simple math” consideration; it’s not simply, “Well, according to Indeed, there is a marginal or zero difference in these two job salaries and the degree does not improve pay.” It’s just not simple if one is open to opportunities. Maybe - I don’t know - she’s at college, working on her AA when she meets a prof whose brother is a curriculum designer and that pays WAY better than what she was hoping and all she needs is an associates. (I’m just spit-balling.) 

I think The Universe/God can bring things one never expected into the lives of people who are open to possibilities. 

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Ginevra said:

I did not step a foot into a college classroom until I was 38yo. (In part due to being indoctrinated to think there was no reason for a “girl” to go to college or have a career, unless she was planning to not marry/not have kids.) I went part time; it took me 5yrs for an Associates. I do wish I had gone further but I am extraordinarily happy I got that at least. Although it is undoubtedly better to get a bachelors or higher, I think at least getting an associate’s demonstrates something to prospective employers that is harder to convey with no college at all. 
 

Additionally, I would say it’s not necessarily a “simple math” consideration; it’s not simply, “Well, according to Indeed, there is a marginal or zero difference in these two job salaries and the degree does not improve pay.” It’s just not simple if one is open to opportunities. Maybe - I don’t know - she’s at college, working on her AA when she meets a prof whose brother is a curriculum designer and that pays WAY better than what she was hoping and all she needs is an associates. (I’m just spit-balling.) 

I think The Universe/God can bring things one never expected into the lives of people who are open to possibilities. 

Yes, part of college is to find out what you like and not just learn more about what you are interested in.   It is entirely possible she starts something with the intention of becoming a better/more educated Para and realizes she could just continue on and become a teacher or maybe get out of education all together.   

I think education is very important and typically encourage people to pursue further education if they are interested, but it isn't the only way to get to where you want to be either.

You have to really weigh your options......time spent finishing a degree/outcome expected/motivation/etc...

I am doing that right now with trying to find a degree in what I started in CA, but here in NC it is completely different and I would have to start over and I just can't go to school full time for 2 years and work a full year of practicum for free, I am just not in that place in my life right now to give up 3 years of salary and I won't work enough more years to have it pay for itself.   In CA I was 27 credits away with a secure job in the field while I went to school, allowing me full pay for my internship hours.   Sigh.

[Faith-manor]

13 hours ago, katilac said:

If she can't, all she has to do is call the school board. 

Wow, I don't think anyone would be a para in our district with a college degree. Even if it were a stopgap, they could probably just hire on as an uncertified teacher (you have so much time to get certified). Paras don't make very much money around here. 

Oh we have paras who do not have any college because staffing deficits are real. The difference is that paras with an A.A. have a lot more opportunities for employment avenues within the district that pay better. The uncertified teacher route does not work for A.A.'s though, but they can substitute teach. The B.A./B.S. is required to get a full time teaching position. Teach for America does help degree holders fast track to certification. 

But yes, paras without degrees of any kind are common. They also are the first ones let go if there is a cut back, and they can't work there way up or get pay raises much in the district without some college. The local district definitely favors college for anyone directly working with students for pay. 

[katilac]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Oh we have paras who do not have any college because staffing deficits are real. The difference is that paras with an A.A. have a lot more opportunities for employment avenues within the district that pay better. The uncertified teacher route does not work for A.A.'s though, but they can substitute teach. The B.A./B.S. is required to get a full time teaching position. Teach for America does help degree holders fast track to certification. 

But yes, paras without degrees of any kind are common. They also are the first ones let go if there is a cut back, and they can't work there way up or get pay raises much in the district without some college. The local district definitely favors college for anyone directly working with students for pay. 

No college for paras is the norm here, staffing deficits or not. Substitutes don't need college, either; they need a high school diploma and a passing grade on a test, the name of which I can't remember. 

BA/BS is required here to be a teacher as well, but my brain went straight to thinking of a four-year when you said degree, even though associate degree is right in the title of the thread. Around here, people will most often say they have an AA for an associate's, and a degree for a four-year. 

How do paras move up in your school district? I don't think there are any student-related avenues for advancement in our district, but you can definitely advance to a certain level at the school board without any college. 

I don't know what the time limit is for getting certified, but getting hired as a teacher with any bachelor's degree was always a possibility here. Since the pandemic shortage, they have started a new program where you get the certification through the district at no charge, with a commitment to teaching for three years once completed. It has some extra mentoring and training that would serve any new teacher well, so hopefully they keep and expand that part once the staffing crisis is over. 

[Faith-manor]

29 minutes ago, katilac said:

No college for paras is the norm here, staffing deficits or not. Substitutes don't need college, either; they need a high school diploma and a passing grade on a test, the name of which I can't remember. 

BA/BS is required here to be a teacher as well, but my brain went straight to thinking of a four-year when you said degree, even though associate degree is right in the title of the thread. Around here, people will most often say they have an AA for an associate's, and a degree for a four-year. 

How do paras move up in your school district? I don't think there are any student-related avenues for advancement in our district, but you can definitely advance to a certain level at the school board without any college. 

I don't know what the time limit is for getting certified, but getting hired as a teacher with any bachelor's degree was always a possibility here. Since the pandemic shortage, they have started a new program where you get the certification through the district at no charge, with a commitment to teaching for three years once completed. It has some extra mentoring and training that would serve any new teacher well, so hopefully they keep and expand that part once the staffing crisis is over. 

Paras get used for substitute teaching if they have 60 credits, and in other capacities. If they have the college credits, they can get an out of profession teaching certificate which allows them to do long term subbing such as when teachers are on maternity leave, take sabbatical or long breaks. My sister in law was promoted from parapro to a permanent signing position for the district which gave her a better salary and full benefits. A lot of the no college parapros are part time, no bennies, contract pay.

[NorthernBeth]

I guess it differs by region, but where I am paras with a degree absolutely make more than paras without one.  It would definitely be worth it.

 

[Farrar]

Another thing not mentioned, but in a lot of areas, the cost of community college for someone on a para salary would be free. So the investment would be more about the time.