Mom...love/"love"...a message received... :(

[Scarlett]

I am not in favor of coming unhinged on anyone. I have a bit of experience with behaving that way and I don’t think it has ever made me feel better or changed anything.  
 

Venting here is a good idea.if you really want to write her a letter.   
 

Also I don’t see controlling one’s emotions the same as swallowing poison.

[Shoeless]

12 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

This is a hard one for me to read even though I know it's true. There is still that thing in me that thinks something I say (yell??) will actually get through to her. It's foolishness, I know. 

It's been a year, I think. My friend who is in town once/year was here and she just left a week or so ago.

My raging did not get through to my person or change anything. It was like a wave that washed over them. They immediately resumed previous behavior. 

The thing about people like your mom is that they never, ever change. Won't change, can't change, it's all the same. They lack the self-awareness that change requires. 

The good part of that is that you can respond however you want! You can respond, not respond, give a heated response, give a blank stare, anything at all. Pick a response that benefits you and helps you feel better. There is no real correct response because nothing you say will change her. You can only change yourself. There's a lot of freedom and inner peace in that. 

[Indigo Blue]

My mom is the type of person where unhinging on her would do no good at best and starting the unleashing of the worst torrent of anger you ever did see at worst. Until you were literally left feeling like a terrible, terrible person in the process. If you light a match, she brings out the flamethrower. 
 

I just don’t think it’s worth it. Plus, I just don’t want to act like that. She does that, not me. This is how she has so badly affected so many people in the immediate family. NOT doing this is a part of how, IMO, the cycle has been broken . 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Indigo Blue

[Corraleno]

12 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

This is a hard one for me to read even though I know it's true. There is still that thing in me that thinks something I say (yell??) will actually get through to her. It's foolishness, I know. 

Honestly, I think the sooner you can acknowledge and truly accept the fact that nothing you say will EVER get through to her, the easier it will be to not get sucked into the crazy. Nothing you say or do will ever have the effect you hope for, because she simply does not have the receptor sites that would allow that information to be processed in a normal human way. Continuing to hope that you can find the right thing to say that will make her understand is like thinking that if you can just find a bright enough light a blind person will see you, or that if you can just shout loud enough a deaf person will hear you. She is emotionally disabled, and you can't fix that. All you can do is refuse to let her transfer her emotional damage onto you.

For me, admitting that the person who gave birth to me would never be the mother that I wanted or needed meant allowing myself to really grieve that fact. It's a huge loss to acknowledge that you were never mothered, that you never had the kind of unconditional love that every child wants, needs, and deserves. And I think that's an ongoing process — I have definitely made peace with it, but I also admit that I sometimes feel envy when friends talk about how close they are to their mothers, how much they are always there for them, etc. As strange as it may sound, I almost envy their grief when much-loved parents pass away, because I would give anything to have had a mother whose passing I would truly mourn. But it is what it is, you know? 

Anyway, I found that allowing myself to truly accept the reality — and the unfairness — of the fact that I would never have the kind of mother every child deserves, made it possible for me to just walk away and not let her nastiness bother me any more. It's easier to move from grief to peace than from rage to peace.

[Indigo Blue]

29 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

All you can do is refuse to let her transfer her emotional damage onto you.

This! I can’t like your post enough. Thank you for posting this. So much wisdom there. 

[popmom]

47 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

My mom is the type of person where unhinging on her would do no good at best and starting the unleashing of the worst torrent of anger you ever did see at worst. Until you were literally left feeling like a terrible, terrible person in the process. If you light a match, she brings out the flamethrower. 
 

I just don’t think it’s worth it. Plus, I just don’t want to act like that. She does that, not me. This is how she has so badly affected so many people in the immediate family. NOT doing this is a part of how, IMO, the cycle has been broken . 

This is exactly how my mother would react. Definitely not a good idea to confront in person! Definitely don't open the door. If you think it will help (as it did me) to respond, put it in writing and then block her.

 

[BakersDozen]

1 hour ago, Indigo Blue said:

My mom is the type of person where unhinging on her would do no good at best and starting the unleashing of the worst torrent of anger you ever did see at worst. Until you were literally left feeling like a terrible, terrible person in the process. If you light a match, she brings out the flamethrower. 
 

I just don’t think it’s worth it. Plus, I just don’t want to act like that. She does that, not me. This is how she has so badly affected so many people in the immediate family. NOT doing this is a part of how, IMO, the cycle has been broken . 

This is my mom as well. Her eyes light up and she gets the most hideous smile on her face when she sees someone else angry - she's ready for a nasty, horrible fight (which she then relates to others as all the other person's fault and not hers). At the worst of my anger, it's knowing that I have not crossed the line and behaved like my mom that has calmed me down and held me back. If I unhinge on her, it feels like I will be joining her. For almost 30 years I have used silence and/or quiet calm as my defense. It was that which led her, in one of her rages, to wish me dead. She was in a blind rage because I would not participate in the fight she desperately was pushing for.

I hope it doesn't come down to that - being unhinged with her. She would love it, and so I don't do it. I want to - she has no clue how much rage I could unleash on her, yet she would soak it in and actually enjoy the anger. Dear God, that is just sickening.

For those who have watched the scene from Star Wars where the Emperor is watching Darth Vader almost kill Luke, remember the sick look on the Emperor's face? That's my mom, and it was watching that movie as a kid that made me realize what her personality was, even though I didn't understand the depth of her hatred/anger.

[BakersDozen]

12 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

And they probably don't remember anyway. Anything unpleasant enough gets wiped from their memory.

As someone who remembers way too much, both good and bad, this is so hard for me to understand even though I know you are right. I've witnessed my mom forgetting things, and I know there is much from just the last 3 years she's been here that she would deny doing/saying. I think that's one reason her message of "love" shocked me so much. The last correspondence between us regarding her lies and manipulation ended in silence on her end and a removal of me from her medical contact/representative. Does she actually not remember what she said/did? That is all I can think of that would now lead her to send me this declaration of "unending love."

[BakersDozen]

10 hours ago, mlktwins said:

In my opinion, your mom is probably not sitting up all night upset about the fact that she hurt you with her message. She did the damage and you are the one hurt/angry/shaking and up all night thinking about it. Like swirling around your head all night. Your heart is probably racing as fast as your mind. I get it. 

I could not sleep last night until after 3am, and then I had the most horrifying horrible dreams, I was to afraid to go back to sleep. Feeling pretty crummy today in every way, and yes to knowing she's not experiencing the same angst.

[BakersDozen]

3 hours ago, saraha said:

And I am so glad I started venting it all here. I know anyone can read it, I know if someone was looking for me, my name is here, my location etc. but I don’t care.  Having this supportive outlet has been instrumental in my progress.

Without you all, whether it's stuff with my mom or my dc, I would be out screaming at the trees or something. Last night I had to stay right here and it was my safe place for sure.

[BakersDozen]

7 hours ago, cuckoomamma said:

I don’t think you should ever show her the list. I think she’d feel a thrill at having hurt you and then deny it and spin it in some negative way onto you.

Even if I could calmly present the list and maintain a detached, business-like demeanor, she would most definitely twist and manipulate it against me. So here I have this powerful "tool" of sorts, but I can't let her know I have it. What kind of craziness is that??

[Indigo Blue]

22 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

So here I have this powerful "tool" of sorts, but I can't let her know I have it. What kind of craziness is that??

There are things I know that she did or said that she doesn’t know I know about. One of them is especially hurtful. She will never know that I know. 

[Harriet Vane]

27 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

Even if I could calmly present the list and maintain a detached, business-like demeanor, she would most definitely twist and manipulate it against me. So here I have this powerful "tool" of sorts, but I can't let her know I have it. What kind of craziness is that??

It's a key. Not a weapon. It opened the door for you to acknowledge the truth openly. The truth sets us free.

[mommyoffive]

Would just cutting her out of your life be better for you?  Or do you really want to say certain things to her?   I guess I am more of a cut you out type of person after I can't deal with it anymore. It is painful and sad, but I feel it allows me to move on with my life and not get continually hurt.  I heal from cutting people out.

[saraha]

56 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

This is my mom as well. Her eyes light up and she gets the most hideous smile on her face when she sees someone else angry - she's ready for a nasty, horrible fight (which she then relates to others as all the other person's fault and not hers). At the worst of my anger, it's knowing that I have not crossed the line and behaved like my mom that has calmed me down and held me back. If I unhinge on her, it feels like I will be joining her. For almost 30 years I have used silence and/or quiet calm as my defense. It was that which led her, in one of her rages, to wish me dead. She was in a blind rage because I would not participate in the fight she desperately was pushing for.

I hope it doesn't come down to that - being unhinged with her. She would love it, and so I don't do it. I want to - she has no clue how much rage I could unleash on her, yet she would soak it in and actually enjoy the anger. Dear God, that is just sickening.

For those who have watched the scene from Star Wars where the Emperor is watching Darth Vader almost kill Luke, remember the sick look on the Emperor's face? That's my mom, and it was watching that movie as a kid that made me realize what her personality was, even though I didn't understand the depth of her hatred/anger.

For me, my mom is the opposite. my mom thrives on the fear she thinks people have of her. She enjoyed watching me take what she dished out. She wants complete obedience with no back talk. The day she tried to rewrite what had literally just happened saw my undoing. I didn’t swear or call names or anything like that, I just screamed like a banshee and told her exactly what she had done and the the consequences of that. She was so gobsmacked that suddenly I wasn’t afraid of her anymore. But she’s like that with everyone. She wants to see people cower or give in to her and meekly walk away. Giving her a fight is the last thing she wants, because she would be afraid to lose.

[BakersDozen]

7 hours ago, saraha said:

For me, my mom is the opposite. my mom thrives on the fear she thinks people have of her. She enjoyed watching me take what she dished out.

This was my mom as I was growing up, but physical fear was her thing. She left her kids terrified of what she would use as she came after us for things we didn't even know we'd done wrong. Oh, the day I was able to look at her and say if she so much as lifted her hand toward me, I would knock her down. That's when her words became her weapon instead of her hands or whatever was in her hands. But you know, to this day I still won't turn my back on her when she's angry or hurt.

[BakersDozen]

7 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Would just cutting her out of your life be better for you?  Or do you really want to say certain things to her? 

Yes and yes. When she is quiet and leaving me/us alone, it's marvelous and I truly do not wish to ever see or hear from her again. And yet there is so much I have not said to her, and things keep happening which add to that list. Sometimes I get tired of holding it all in from her and then I get angry because I want to speak my mind but know it might blow up in my face.

[saraha]

6 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

This was my mom as I was growing up, but physical fear was her thing. She left her kids terrified of what she would use as she came after us for things we didn't even know we'd done wrong. Oh, the day I was able to look at her and say if she so much as lifted her hand toward me, I would knock her down. That's when her words became her weapon instead of her hands or whatever was in her hands. But you know, to this day I still won't turn my back on her when she's angry or hurt.

Did it make you afraid to be a mom? It did me, but my dh came from a different kind of life and is so quiet and unflappable that I knew he would be a good dad. There were a few times in the early days that he said your mom may have done things that way, but you can’t do that to our children and I immediately changed course. He helped me be the mom I turned out to be. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by saraha

[Slache]

If you show her the list she will gaslight you and you will question it forever. If you blow up on her she will use it against you forever.

As much as is possible, never see this person again. A mother has children to love them, she had children to hurt them. You were born and raised for the sole purpose of being her victim. You don't have to do that anymore.

[bolt.]

I have neither experience nor expertise here, and I'm not totally up to speed on the history of the story -- so take what I'm saying lightly! But doesn't what your mom wrote just kinda translate directly into "I remember when your choices were meeting my needs and making me feel good, and I liked that, so I hope it might start up again soon." ??? I don't really see how her note/text was about you at all. It was exclusively focused on how her experiences with you made her feel. Which is a poopy way to function in a 'relationship' -- but few people are as as seriously blatant as to write it all out like that and pretend it's an attempt at reconciliation! At least she is showing her true colours.

[popmom]

3 hours ago, Slache said:

If you show her the list she will gaslight you and you will question it forever. If you blow up on her she will use it against you forever.

 

It takes two parties cooperating for gaslighting to succeed. I am not saying she should respond because I don't know how far along she is in her healing or how vulnerable she may still be. It sounds like she is probably still too vulnerable. In my case when my mother attempts to gaslight me or send flying monkeys my way, it only strengthens my position--reinforces that she is what she is. She can't gaslight me anymore. She can try! But it won't work. 

[BakersDozen]

On 1/30/2023 at 7:37 AM, saraha said:

Did it make you afraid to be a mom?

In some ways, yes. I am keenly aware of how easily I could say or do things that mimic my mom, and yet the knowledge of how it felt to be raised by her has been enough to stop me before I get to that point (or hopefully even close to it). I am so afraid of doing anything remotely similar to what my mom did with me/us, I tend to overthink and over analyze things to an extreme. 

[BakersDozen]

On 1/30/2023 at 5:40 PM, bolt. said:

I have neither experience nor expertise here, and I'm not totally up to speed on the history of the story -- so take what I'm saying lightly! But doesn't what your mom wrote just kinda translate directly into "I remember when your choices were meeting my needs and making me feel good, and I liked that, so I hope it might start up again soon." ??? I don't really see how her note/text was about you at all. It was exclusively focused on how her experiences with you made her feel. Which is a poopy way to function in a 'relationship' -- but few people are as as seriously blatant as to write it all out like that and pretend it's an attempt at reconciliation! At least she is showing her true colours.

Crazy that you posted this because as I have read her message over and over, this is what stands out to me, too. Her idea of love is for others to make her feel special, regardless of how she treats them. So she accepts "love" from 2 of my siblings but not my younger sister or me (because we don't spoil her or excuse her behavior). So yes, your translation is accurate.

[BakersDozen]

On 1/30/2023 at 2:23 PM, Slache said:

If you show her the list she will gaslight you and you will question it forever. If you blow up on her she will use it against you forever.

I agree that she will gaslight me, and I like to think I am ready for it, but do I dare invite that to happen? This is where I find myself unsure because what I have, what I know for absolute sure, is pretty darn powerful. It's what finally made my brother (who dotes on my mom because he doesn't have to actually deal with her) come to a point of saying that I/we have a right of refusal. It's what made my friend, who is the embodiment of love toward others, finally see that I am not exaggerating nor making up this stuff about my mom and to understand why she often found me in tears following another incident.

I know to not blow up on her - now that the tornado has moved on and I can think clearly, I know that she would delight in using my loss of self-control against me. She uses my outward calmness against me, too, but how much more so would she claim victim status if I were to lose my crud with her, justified or not?

 

 

On 1/30/2023 at 2:23 PM, Slache said:

A mother has children to love them, she had children to hurt them.

I read this and I cannot reconcile my mom's words/behaviors with her being a mother. How horribly, horribly twisted one must be to do this. 😞

[Grace Hopper]

Have you heard anything more from her? Wondering if she has followed up with any sort of didn’t-you-get-my-message sort of communication. 

[BakersDozen]

On 2/1/2023 at 11:13 PM, Grace Hopper said:

Have you heard anything more from her? Wondering if she has followed up with any sort of didn’t-you-get-my-message sort of communication. 

She's sent a few messages regarding other things (nothing dramatic) but no follow-up to her message. I did get a few pictures sent my way today of her cleaned up office. Given that I have not been back in there since finding the paper, seeing the room again gave me a kind of icky, sad, angry feeling.

[Rosie_0801]

On 2/2/2023 at 5:05 PM, BakersDozen said:

I know to not blow up on her - now that the tornado has moved on and I can think clearly, I know that she would delight in using my loss of self-control against me. She uses my outward calmness against me, too, but how much more so would she claim victim status if I were to lose my crud with her, justified or not?
😞

You've got to be careful with this kind of thinking. It's very easy to miss the line between processing and self abuse.

[BakersDozen]

18 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

You've got to be careful with this kind of thinking. It's very easy to miss the line between processing and self abuse.

Very true. One thing I know about my mom is that she wants to win, and by win I mean she wants to see the other person angry/hurt. When I am calm, it enrages her. When I won't respond to something, it makes her crazy. I don't want to be one who makes her eyes gleam with satisfaction. There is something that feels good to me about knowing that I have not given in to my anger or that she has not seen an angry reaction. I just don't want to be anything like her or feed her sick need to fight - ugly fight, too.

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

Very true. One thing I know about my mom is that she wants to win, and by win I mean she wants to see the other person angry/hurt. When I am calm, it enrages her. When I won't respond to something, it makes her crazy. I don't want to be one who makes her eyes gleam with satisfaction. There is something that feels good to me about knowing that I have not given in to my anger or that she has not seen an angry reaction. I just don't want to be anything like her or feed her sick need to fight - ugly fight, too.

I understand, but one day it's important to stop caring. To react or not react depending on *your* mood, instead of hers. You're still dancing to her tune, it's just a dance you like a bit better instead of a dance she likes a bit better.