Feel free to tell me to chill. (Early elem math)

[Brittany1116]

My second child is a month into 1st grade. He is also 75% done with CLE math for 1st grade. He is very bright, typically motivated, and something of a perfectionist. He is 5 years younger than my only other child, who is quite advanced in math, so I cannot compare the two to get a feel for what is "normal". I have read some state benchmarks and Homeschooling Year by Year, etc. 

Basically I just want someone to say this is normal and right on track and won't even be an issue in 3 months. Feel free to tell me to chill.

What he CAN do...

Count by 5s forwards, and 10s forwards and backwards

Count well past 200 without error

Read clock hands to 5 minute marks with occasional mistakes if xx:55

Use manipulatives to show demonstrate basic math skills

Understand process required for verbal math word problems

Understand 1s/10s/100s place

Use a ruler

Identify and draw basic shapes

Identify and count bills and coins

Reliably tell doubles to 6, all +/-0, +/-1

Use fingers to do quick subtraction at times

Read and make bar graphs

Use number lines

 

What he cannot do...

Count by 2s beyond 14 without a chart

Tell doubles beyond 6

Tell any basic addition facts that are not +0, +1 without counting mentally or dots on paper or fingers

Tell any subtraction beyond (inexplicably) 10-2

 

His math book has daily speed drills, 24 problems in 1 minute. I give him 2 minutes and he can generally get all correct in that time on addition days, and half or so on subtraction days. I have taught him that in timed tests he should skim for problems he knows instantly, and then look back through and spend time working on more instead of spending 30 seconds on problem 2 and missing 20 others.

I am trying not to compare or stress. He doesn't hate math and he isn't bad at it. We do skip counting regularly, and he has the 100 chart to refer to. I am just not seeing any facts 'stick' despite our efforts. 

Is this just a brain-age thing? Will he have a lightbulb moment and start seeing the fact families soon? Advice? Thanks

Edited August 30, 2022 by Brittany1116

[Jean in Newcastle]

My gifted kid (as in formally tested gifted) never really learned his math facts. He just graduated summa cum laude in college in a STEM field that uses a lot of math. So even if they don’t kick in at some time it’s not the end of the world. 

[lewelma]

I will tell you to chill. 🙂 First grade is like babies. I would make math fun -- play shop, play games, tell math stories. Do math every day for like 20 minutes in first grade. Your child does not need to go in lockstep with some publisher's idea of what a 6 year old should be able to do. 

Also, I never gave either of my kids speed drills. They are not a core requirement of math. If a kid likes them, ok, but if not, I would totally drop them in a heart beat. 

[PeterPan]

Ditto the suggestion to play more games. Playing games will build his working memory, helping move info from short to long term memory. My dd with no SLD Math was a pain in the butt for math facts, but we didn't realize at the time how poor her working memory and visual processing were.

 

[Shoeless]

He sounds fine! Play lots of games. Any sort of game where he has to count or be the banker is perfect.  Games where he has to move his piece forward or backward so many squares are great. 

For whatever it's worth, I have a mental block about adding combos of 6, 7, & 8. I have to draw out dots to keep them straight and I'm 50 🙂 

[Dianthus]

My kids really like the game I Sea 10. Also, we do a lot with dice. 

[HomeAgain]

I'm going to tell you a secret: my youngest "memorized" facts in odd ways. 

For place value/counting, he used tiered cards and blocks to show place value patterning, which cemented it visually in his mind.

For addition/subtraction, he worked a lot with blocks and making "ten-bonds" with leftovers.  8+7 was (8+2) +5.  Conversely, 13-6 was (13-3)-3.  A little slower than memorization, but not much.

For multiplication, he memorized groups to 5 and added groups: 8x7 was 8x5 + 8x2.  His work is mostly automatic now, but I can see his brain working sometimes with his addition groups.

 

These methods have served him well and they work fabulously for understanding upper math, so stressing over if he learned them "properly" wasn't on my radar. Knowing he could prove his answer and could do the work was an okay goal.  The fluidity and quick recall comes with time.  We used a LOT of visual math, though, so he always had blocks at hand to do what he needed and be able to start moving from concrete to abstract work. 

Now, my oldest used a lot of blocks as well, and very visual math.  He made a slightly quicker leap to memorizing multiplication facts, but every now and then I'd see him cross palms in the middle school years as he thought out a problem, visualizing the block layout in his mind to help him do the work.

Both kids ended up being quite good at math.  Quite.  And neither has been held back if something wasn't memorized.

[sweet2ndchance]

Just wanted to share a trick for those upper doubles... use some number sense.

Every number between 5 and 10 has a 5 in it, for example 7 is the same as 5 and 2. He knows double 5 is 10 and double 2 is 4 so just put those two doubles together to get 14. Double 9 is the same as double 5 and double 4 so 18. It may seem slower at first to do it this way versus just straight memorizing but some kids need these kind of tricks to remember them. They will get faster at doing this with practice.

When my kids would get stuck on an upper double, I have them show me the number they are trying to double on their hands, let's say 8 for example. I point out the number has a 5 in it because they are holding up 5 fingers on one hand. They know that's 10 when doubled. Now double the other hand, double 3 is 6. 10 and 6 is 16 so double 8 is 16.

I will say that what you listed is normal. He's doing fine. 🙂 

[Clemsondana]

I wouldn't be worried.  Like @HomeAgainsaid, some kids learn the facts in ways other than memorizing.  We used Singapore Math, and it never has kids memorize anything over 10 because you can just regroup.  So, 8+7 is 10+5.  17-9 is 10-9 +7.  It seems slower, but because there are no facts bigger than 10s kids seem to be able to visualize it easily.  A friend whose school student was struggling with timed tests found that they got much faster once I explained this method.  I'm not saying that your student needs to learn this approach - just that there are several approaches that could be valid.  One of my kids was slow to do multidigit multiplication when they got to it because they kept wanting to write out what was actually happening - 27x15 was 5x7 + 20x7 + 7x10 + 20x10...which was much more tedious than the traditional algorithm.  But, I realized that kid could do it in their head, which can be helpful.  It's also mean that as we did pre-A and start algebra the distributive property and other types of rearrangements are second nature.  So, I agree with letting kid play with math and keep practicing and maybe try different ways of thinking about the math.  Try games, play with blocks so that he can see ways to rearrange the groups, and see what works.  

[ktgrok]

Could he working "too" fast, so not giving his brain time to solidify stuff? If he's done 70% of the 1st grade book in just 1 month, he's working WAY faster than the books are meant to be used. Part of the way things go from working memory to long term memory is review AFTER a period of rest. So doing a bunch of lessons in one day will not lead to the same retention as spacing them out more. He's not going to be at the end of 1st grade in mental stuff just because he's at the end of the 1st grade book - some stuff takes time to sink in. He's barely out of kindergarten. At this point, if he can count and add he's fine. 

[Malam]

On 8/30/2022 at 7:03 PM, ktgrok said:

Could he working "too" fast, so not giving his brain time to solidify stuff? If he's done 70% of the 1st grade book in just 1 month, he's working WAY faster than the books are meant to be used. Part of the way things go from working memory to long term memory is review AFTER a period of rest. So doing a bunch of lessons in one day will not lead to the same retention as spacing them out more. He's not going to be at the end of 1st grade in mental stuff just because he's at the end of the 1st grade book - some stuff takes time to sink in. He's barely out of kindergarten. At this point, if he can count and add he's fine. 

Agreed. I would recommend monthly or biweekly review while trying to (productively) slow him down either with supplements like CWP/IP/HoE/Fan Math/Ed Zaccaro, or with a more challenging curriuclum like BA 1.

There is also Kate Snow's wonderful Math facts that Stick series

[Brittany1116]

On 8/30/2022 at 10:03 PM, ktgrok said:

Could he working "too" fast, so not giving his brain time to solidify stuff? If he's done 70% of the 1st grade book in just 1 month, he's working WAY faster than the books are meant to be used. Part of the way things go from working memory to long term memory is review AFTER a period of rest. So doing a bunch of lessons in one day will not lead to the same retention as spacing them out more. He's not going to be at the end of 1st grade in mental stuff just because he's at the end of the 1st grade book - some stuff takes time to sink in. He's barely out of kindergarten. At this point, if he can count and add he's fine. 

No, he started this math program after Thanksgiving 2021 so he has just worked on it for nearly a full year. 🙂 The kinder math we used was "too easy" so he finished it in 3 or 4 months last year.

 

[Brittany1116]

So this is why I say tell me to chill. It seems every time I get bothered enough to ask a question like this, it resolves itself immediately. Literally two days after I posted, he was doing math and thinking aloud like this- "I know 6 plus 6 is 12 and 7 plus 7 is only 2 more than that..." and "8 plus 2 is 10 so I just know that 10 minus 8 is 2."

We do play Math Dice often, and some coin play, some chutes and ladders. I have not seen him naturally regroup to base 10s, although I have casually tried to explain it. I am not seeing natural shortcuts at all, really, and I think that is my main concern. My older one had a good number sense and taught himself many math tricks at an early age, besides memorizing quickly. 

Thanks for the advice and comments. I am going to go back through and reread and make notes to myself.

[Malam]

Let me know if you need those abbreviations translated!

[Ausmumof3]

I wouldn’t worry at this point. If he still can’t do them in y3 or so then something might be going on.

Ideally you want rapid subitising, visualising numbers clearly and understanding how to manipulate them more than memorisation in my experience. Not understanding how to move through 19 to 21 or 29 to 31 and not generalising those rules would be more of a red flag for me.

[Elizabeth86]

On 9/7/2022 at 11:38 AM, Brittany1116 said:

So this is why I say tell me to chill. It seems every time I get bothered enough to ask a question like this, it resolves itself immediately. Literally two days after I posted, he was doing math and thinking aloud like this- "I know 6 plus 6 is 12 and 7 plus 7 is only 2 more than that..." and "8 plus 2 is 10 so I just know that 10 minus 8 is 2."

We do play Math Dice often, and some coin play, some chutes and ladders. I have not seen him naturally regroup to base 10s, although I have casually tried to explain it. I am not seeing natural shortcuts at all, really, and I think that is my main concern. My older one had a good number sense and taught himself many math tricks at an early age, besides memorizing quickly. 

Thanks for the advice and comments. I am going to go back through and reread and make notes to myself.

Me too. 🤣

[Brittany1116]

On 9/8/2022 at 1:29 AM, Malam said:

Let me know if you need those abbreviations translated!

CWP? Thank you

52 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

Me too. 🤣

Glad it's not just me! I 😆

[Malam]

2 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

CWP? Thank you

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