House build distraction

[Carrie12345]

It isn’t going all that well, so it’s not a *positive distraction, but it’s a distraction.

Current status is that there’s some hope that they may finish before the summer is over.  We were able to get a short extension for our construction loan, but it will still convert to a traditional mortgage before the house is done, and we’ll be carrying two houses until we can close on a sale. Sigh.

I think our builder hates me/us. I’ve been chalking some of that up to an assumption that they probably have other customers freaking out on them for reasons beyond everyone’s control, though I’ve been super careful not to do that. However, we only get a weekly update on what’s *scheduled for the following week (and often doesn’t happen), so every 6-8 weeks we inquire as to the projected end date, and that annoys them. Which annoys me. How is that not a reasonable question?!? 
We’ve stood firm on just TWO problems in +/- 9 months, and only because of their significance. So I really don’t feel like we’ve been nightmare clients.

The rest is probably because of pricing. By the time we signed our contract, their base price had gone up a bit more than 5%.The current base price for our model is now 35% higher than the base price we got. 

The latest issues are a real blast. Wiring has been scheduled to “start on Monday” for 4-5 Mondays now. And they installed precast basement steps to the outside for an 8’ basement. We have a 9’ basement. 

As a control freak who physically writes things like coffee, shower, and feed dog on her to-do list in order to function, it takes SO MUCH energy and intention to continually remind myself that this, in the big picture, is a minor and temporary problem to have in a world gone mad. But it’s exhausting and I don’t know how much longer I can shrug and smile before I have a nervous breakdown. (Hyperbole. Mostly. Maybe.)

So, for a laugh, here’s a pic of my too-short basement exit that we haven’t yet gotten a response to. (And we paid a ridiculously substantial amount to add.)

 

 

[Faith-manor]

Wow! That is REALLY short. I would be probably NOT as patient as you over something like that.

We had nothing but trouble when we built our house back in 1993. What we learned was that contractors take more jobs than what they can ever hope to finish in the time frame promised. Why they do this, I will never know, but that seems to be the thing. We were in serious trouble with our construction loan, and before it was over with, I had to get ugly with the company. We hired an attorney to represent us, and two phone calls and a letter later, miraculously he suddenly had time to work on our house which had literally seen not a soul for 30 days straight.

I really hope something gives so you don't end up unable to sell your home.before this mortgage kicks in!

[Carrie12345]

47 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I really hope something gives so you don't end up unable to sell your home.before this mortgage kicks in!

One of the “funniest” things is, we have a TON of hotel points that could get us through a pretty wide gap and nearly feel like a vacation… but there are NO storage units in the area available for our crap, so it doesn’t even matter.
We put ourselves on waiting lists for storage units, and currently have the biggest Pod that could fit here, but there really isn’t anywhere to put the majority of our stuff if we did temporary housing.  Sigh.

[mmasc]

We hope to be going through this process in a couple of years, so I’m always following along on your story lol. I’ve heard enough of these stories from family members to know that what you’re going through is pretty standard, unfortunately, but I’m with you on why? Why does this seem so difficult? At least the stairs are so glaringly obvious that they *surely* know they must be fixed, so maybe it won’t take tooooo much of your time and effort to get it corrected. Maybe. 🙄

Edited March 6, 2022 by mmasc
Autocorrect was dumb

[Katy]

How can it convert to a normal loan before the house is finished? Is that legal in your state? I’m under the impression it has to pass inspection as a habitable house first in most areas. In some states that includes flooring and  appliances. 

[Carrie12345]

38 minutes ago, mmasc said:

We hope to be going through this process in a couple of years, so I’m always following along on your story lol. I’ve heard enough of these stories from family meme eta to know that what you’re going through is pretty standard, unfortunately, but I’m with you on why? Why does this seem so difficult? At least the stairs are so glaringly obvious that they *surely* know they must be fixed, so maybe it won’t take tooooo much of your time and effort to get it corrected. Maybe. 🙄

Maybe, indeed, lol.
I don’t like a lack of communication. Concrete trucks were booked really far out? Just tell me. Framing crew got Covid? Let me know.  Electrician’s helpers all quit? Drop me an email. It’s the “They don’t need to know this” that makes me insane.  We’re paying for it, so why wouldn’t we be expected to know???

I really don’t expect it to get any better, because now they know we’re getting an independent inspector before the walls go up (if we time it right. Sigh.) And they sound kind of offended. 🤷‍♀️ 

[Carrie12345]

4 minutes ago, Katy said:

How can it convert to a normal loan before the house is finished? Is that legal in your state? I’m under the impression it has to pass inspection as a habitable house first in most areas. In some states that includes flooring and  appliances. 

I’m not sure what differences there may be by state, but ours was structured for interest-only for 12 months, and that’s the agreement we signed for. Then we signed for a 3-month extension, which is the max our bank offers.
We’re supplying our own appliances, so that isn’t even a part of our loan. They are, of course, still required for a CO, but they’re not a part of any of our contracts.

I’ve refrained from contacting our HOA (which isn’t a hard core HOA) because they haven’t contacted me. They “require” construction to be finished in 6 months. Lol! 
What are they going to do? Tell us to stop and leave a half finished house forever?

[mmasc]

7 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Maybe, indeed, lol.
I don’t like a lack of communication. Concrete trucks were booked really far out? Just tell me. Framing crew got Covid? Let me know.  Electrician’s helpers all quit? Drop me an email. It’s the “They don’t need to know this” that makes me insane.  We’re paying for it, so why wouldn’t we be expected to know???

I really don’t expect it to get any better, because now they know we’re getting an independent inspector before the walls go up (if we time it right. Sigh.) And they sound kind of offended. 🤷‍♀️ 

I agree 100%. I’d want and expect those things as well. And honestly can’t understand why anyone (looking at you contractors) *wouldn’t* understand that. Like, not getting told about those things truly doesn’t make sense AT ALL in my head. 

[Annie G]

I admire your self control. We had an addition built last year and at times it was such a frustrating experience. I’d point out things they hadn’t done to A before they started B and heard ‘we can do that anytime’. I swear I was about to strangle them.  Finally pitched a fit and posted my own punch list because they were moving forward without installing the bolts through the lvl beams, the roof truss braces, and the straps to secure the frame to the foundation.  
Oddly, since the project has finished, the contractor has treated us like best friends, and even called dh to ask about a structural issue he was having on a project. 
So back to you…I hate that they’re not communicating well and making it seem like you’re being too demanding.  That stinks! 

[Selkie]

Is there a completion date in your contract?

Given the amount of time this taking, I'd be laying on the pressure and not worrying one single bit about annoying them. Since you haven't been pressuring them, they probably feel they have a lot of leeway with you and can stretch your job out while they take care of other, more demanding clients. Having been in the construction business for many years (not a contractor, but a related business), I can tell you that the norm here is for contractors to have weekly walk-throughs with their clients to keep them up to date and identify any problems or changes that need to be made. It's also the norm for clients to be breathing down the contractor's neck about staying on schedule and getting any problems fixed ASAP - so start breathing down their neck and see if that gets you results.

[Scarlett]

The world has gone mad for sure @Carrie12345.  So many things are likely out of their control …. You brought up an issue though that has been getting steadily worse over the years imo.  And that is the irritation businesses feel in having to provide updates to their customers.  In the collision business we are often dealing with an individuals first or 2nd most expensive possession.  So it is not unreasonable that we provide updates and answer their questions without irritation.  
 

Our shop manager…and I have talked a lot about him….just can’t handle that aspect of our job. I have to suffer his supreme irritation when I ask for some sort of update.  So I am very careful to not pass that irritation on to our customers.  And in this time of supply chain disruption I am sometimes having to tell people, ‘we don’t have your parts yet, and we have no idea when we will have them, but we are continuing to scramble for all possible options.’   Surprisingly they accept this and are very understanding. 

Anyway sorry for the t/j.  I know you are living with supreme stress right now.  

[Carrie12345]

2 hours ago, Selkie said:

Is there a completion date in your contract?

Given the amount of time this taking, I'd be laying on the pressure and not worrying one single bit about annoying them. Since you haven't been pressuring them, they probably feel they have a lot of leeway with you and can stretch your job out while they take care of other, more demanding clients. Having been in the construction business for many years (not a contractor, but a related business), I can tell you that the norm here is for contractors to have weekly walk-throughs with their clients to keep them up to date and identify any problems or changes that need to be made. It's also the norm for clients to be breathing down the contractor's neck about staying on schedule and getting any problems fixed ASAP - so start breathing down their neck and see if that gets you results.

There is not a completion date in our contract, but I will pour over it again to see if I can catch anything. We were told upfront that their normal 4-6 month period was going to 6-9 months, and were eventually told more like 9-12.  As it was already covid times when we began, we did go in expecting delays.
How would you recommend enforcing a schedule in times of labor and supply shortages? Because I’m definitely open to advice, even though I’m also not a butthole who thinks they can just grab random strangers off the street to install materials that aren’t in stock.  But I’m willing to do whatever IS reasonable. Because it’s definitely gotten beyond ridiculous.

[Selkie]

38 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

There is not a completion date in our contract, but I will pour over it again to see if I can catch anything. We were told upfront that their normal 4-6 month period was going to 6-9 months, and were eventually told more like 9-12.  As it was already covid times when we began, we did go in expecting delays.
How would you recommend enforcing a schedule in times of labor and supply shortages? Because I’m definitely open to advice, even though I’m also not a butthole who thinks they can just grab random strangers off the street to install materials that aren’t in stock.  But I’m willing to do whatever IS reasonable. Because it’s definitely gotten beyond ridiculous.

So are they saying the delay is due to material shortages? If so, I would question that. Not that there aren’t shortages, but it should not be creating this long of a delay. New home construction is taking a little longer here, but nothing like what you’re experiencing.

It seems like your delay is mostly being caused by them failing to do their work in a timely manner. Are they there working on the house on a daily basis?

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Selkie said:

So are they saying the delay is due to material shortages? If so, I would question that. Not that there aren’t shortages, but it should not be creating this long of a delay. New home construction is taking a little longer here, but nothing like what you’re experiencing.

It seems like your delay is mostly being caused by them failing to do their work in a timely manner. Are they there working on the house on a daily basis?

My guess is that is a combo of lack of material and lack of workers.  Things are really a mess.  

[Selkie]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

My guess is that is a combo of lack of material and lack of workers.  Things are really a mess.  

Sure, but she’s been waiting a long time with no end in sight. Like I said, new homes are being constructed here in a lot less time, while dealing with the same shortages.

[Faith-manor]

7 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Sure, but she’s been waiting a long time with no end in sight. Like I said, new homes are being constructed here in a lot less time, while dealing with the same shortages.

Yes. When we were house hunting around Huntsville, we saw numerous homes going up very rapidly while dealing with the shipping and labor issues everyone in the nation was enduring. There is something way wrong about the timetable here, and in the back of my mind, I am wondering if this contractor is funneling materials from Carrie's house build to a contract he views as more lucrative.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

Sure, but she’s been waiting a long time with no end in sight. Like I said, new homes are being constructed here in a lot less time, while dealing with the same shortages.

I agree. She should definitely keep after them. 

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

So are they saying the delay is due to material shortages? If so, I would question that. Not that there aren’t shortages, but it should not be creating this long of a delay. New home construction is taking a little longer here, but nothing like what you’re experiencing.

It seems like your delay is mostly being caused by them failing to do their work in a timely manner. Are they there working on the house on a daily basis?

Over all this time, there have been multiple reasons given. Weather was a big one in the beginning. We had ridiculous back to back storms turn our foundation hole into a swimming pool.  Materials/trucks were an issue with concrete, which we know from dh talking to the concrete guys on site. People did get covid, including people in the builder’s office.  
But sometimes there are no reasons given.  I can’t tell you why electric hasn’t been run yet. Or why HVAC materials sat in the house (unsecured) for 2 weeks before installing. Because they only have a receptionist call me weekly with what’s currently on the work order.  Just trying to get a window for a pre-wall inspection was a process involving a vague message from my project manager’s *blocked* number 😠 before he gave dh a week long window in email.  And I figured that long a window meant that long without them getting any work done. But after checking things out on Friday, I don’t believe the electrical will be done before Wednesday, the first day of the window given. 

There is absolutely NOT work being done daily. Again, a good chunk of that is reasonable weather delays. We’ve had many winter days that would be considered unreasonable for working, plus days of just plain ice. But even with that said, we’ve gone over on relatively mild days to see nothing being done. I don’t expect people to be running plumbing when it’s 14*, but I kinda do when it’s 35*, yk?

For the paperwork needed for our bank, the office sent a message that simply stated “Delays related to Covid”. 

[Selkie]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

Over all this time, there have been multiple reasons given. Weather was a big one in the beginning. We had ridiculous back to back storms turn our foundation hole into a swimming pool.  Materials/trucks were an issue with concrete, which we know from dh talking to the concrete guys on site. People did get covid, including people in the builder’s office.  
But sometimes there are no reasons given.  I can’t tell you why electric hasn’t been run yet. Or why HVAC materials sat in the house (unsecured) for 2 weeks before installing. Because they only have a receptionist call me weekly with what’s currently on the work order.  Just trying to get a window for a pre-wall inspection was a process involving a vague message from my project manager’s *blocked* number 😠 before he gave dh a week long window in email.  And I figured that long a window meant that long without them getting any work done. But after checking things out on Friday, I don’t believe the electrical will be done before Wednesday, the first day of the window given. 

There is absolutely NOT work being done daily. Again, a good chunk of that is reasonable weather delays. We’ve had many winter days that would be considered unreasonable for working, plus days of just plain ice. But even with that said, we’ve gone over on relatively mild days to see nothing being done. I don’t expect people to be running plumbing when it’s 14*, but I kinda do when it’s 35*, yk?

For the paperwork needed for our bank, the office sent a message that simply stated “Delays related to Covid”. 

Well, yikes. None of that sounds good. That is some shockingly terrible customer service. Have you talked to other people who've used this company to see if their experiences were similar to yours? Do you know anything about their other current projects - are they getting other houses built in a timely fashion, or are they slacking off everywhere? One possibility I would be wondering about is if the company is having financial problems and doesn't have money to pay their subcontractors, and that's why it's taking so long to get electric and plumbing and HVAC.

[Selkie]

Another thing - hopefully you're already doing this, but make sure the builder is providing you with lien waivers from the suppliers and subs. I've seen it happen where a builder went under in the middle of building a new house and abandoned the project. The homeowner had not been getting lien waivers and ended up being on the hook for all the suppliers and subs, even though they had already paid that money to the contractor. As you can imagine, having to pay for everything twice was a pretty devastating financial hit.

[Carrie12345]

Thank you, @Selkie. I’m going to ask dh about all that.

Overall, the company has a solid 40 year history in the area. I don’t know where else I might find other customers going through these “unprecedented times”. I’ve seen 4 or 5 houses being built by other companies, but most were much further along than mine before, and at least two of those are being built by a company with a bad reputation. I’m reluctant to use them as a comparison, as my friend moved into one of their new builds last spring and just had her pipes burst in a garage that was said to be insulated but was not, so… 😬 

[kbutton]

10 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Maybe, indeed, lol.
I don’t like a lack of communication. Concrete trucks were booked really far out? Just tell me. Framing crew got Covid? Let me know.  Electrician’s helpers all quit? Drop me an email. It’s the “They don’t need to know this” that makes me insane.  We’re paying for it, so why wouldn’t we be expected to know???

I really don’t expect it to get any better, because now they know we’re getting an independent inspector before the walls go up (if we time it right. Sigh.) And they sound kind of offended. 🤷‍♀️ 

I would think that they could have a list of backed up stuff on their website that they update because it has to effect multiple customers. They could even say something like, X Subdivision, labor shortage due to illness; Z Subdivision, siding backordered, etc. Then you can see what is on your list that it might apply to or be downstream of. 

[Lecka]

We had hail damage repaired recently, and siding was being held for certain contractors putting up new housing.  That is what we heard!

We heard the same about windows.

The person working on our house said that the new construction was more lucrative (more business) over time and they were favoring those clients so they wouldn’t go somewhere else. 

[Carrie12345]

14 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I would think that they could have a list of backed up stuff on their website that they update because it has to effect multiple customers. They could even say something like, X Subdivision, labor shortage due to illness; Z Subdivision, siding backordered, etc. Then you can see what is on your list that it might apply to or be downstream of. 

None of the builders have anything like that online. Sounds like something that would make sense for tract building?  Here, it’s mostly just individual lots scattered around hundreds and hundreds of square miles.

I did realize I can find out from my township how long other houses have been taking this past year from permits to CO, but I know this particular company didn’t have any other projects in our township when we were starting out. But it could be helpful anyway.

[Scarlett]

@Carrie12345 when did you break ground?

[Carrie12345]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

@Carrie12345 when did you break ground?

They started clearing the lot August 2nd. 

[cjzimmer1]

I'm sorry, I share your frustration.  We are ONLY building a single room addition.  It's a small project and should have gong quickly but it's not.  I too have been bothered by the lack of communication especially since we live here while the work is being done and have to let workers into the house.  It would be nice to know when someone is showing up so we can let them in.  Project was scheduled for 6-8 weeks and estimated completion was end of December or early January at the lastest.  They STARTED December 12.  They are still not done.  Early on the project manager was in regular contact and then we heard/saw nothing of or from him and the little bit of communication we got was from the owner directly.  Two weeks ago the project manager showed up again and apologized and explained his absence (family medical emergency but he gave us full details and I totally understand why it seemed like he fell off the planet and I don't fault him one bit even if I was a tad cranky at the time).  So at least I felt a little bit better and I've been getting better responses to my questions but it's still so painfully slow.  PM was honest and said "We have no idea when your siding is going to get done, siding guy is so booked up he won't even give us estimates when he might get to us".  We've got a couple of issues that need to be redone, PM has looked at one and immediately says "yeah, that's a bad job we'll get it fixed" but we have to wait until that guy has time to come back and who knows when it will be.  In the meantime areas of the house are in complete disarray because they had to get in there to work and we can't put it back together.  I sure hope things speed up for you but in the meantime, I can sympathize with your frustrations.

[Scarlett]

20 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

They started clearing the lot August 2nd. 

Dh and I were comparing it to the build his family is doing in AR. They poured the slab mid October.  They could not find a contractor so my SIL and her roommate…..accountants….have contracted it.  Considering they have no experience they have done an amazing job but have had the guidance of Dh and their other brother.  And the brothers have done a lot of the physical work…..as much as they can do with full time jobs.  
 

At this point, electrical is done, sheet rock is being finished up this week and painting will start week after.  Cabinets have been delivered. Exterior rock has been installed…siding people are coming soon.  
 

Dh did all of the drawings….and he has been VERY annoyed that ground broke before he felt they were completely finished….but I am amazed at how it is going over all.  
 

This is a 2 family, 2 story build…..about 1650 sf on each floor.  
 

Finding workers has been challenging.  This structure is attached to my MILs existing home and she remodeled…..no one could be found to paint her new cabinets.  My MIL and another SIL (who has moved in and does not work full time) did most of the painting and Dh and BIL sprayed the door fronts which was the most critical. 
 

We were getting worried about finding a painter for the new structure…..MIL and SIL said they would do it but wow, that is a lot for a 77 year old and 50 year old.  Contractor SIL saw a billboard for a painter while she was driving….she got to her office and googled the name she thought she remembered.  Found a painter contractor but not the one that was advertised….but he has years of local experience and has an opening in 2 weeks.  What a miracle.  
 

So I feel your pain….we are neck in neck in this process.  We have spent more weekends in AR than we have at home for the last 3 months. 

[Carrie12345]

It looks like I was wrong about the stairs/door… for the most part.
We got a response explaining how that works.  But now we’re following up because we can’t envision how the grading of that opening can possibly coexist with the grading of the front steps, which are significantly higher. In my layperson head, that calls for either a very strange hill or a retaining wall, which we did not budget for.  Hopefully there’s a quick and simple answer!

I’m always glad to be wrong about things when it means no time consuming, expensive, or complicated solutions are needed!

[TechWife]

I’ve ever heard of a mortgage closing on a house that is incomplete or without an occupancy permit. But, I also don’t understand why you’re holding the construction loan as typically those are held by the contractor around here. Otherwise, I can relate.  The contractor we had was terrible at keeping to a schedule, and this was pre- Covid (we moved in Jan 2020). We would be told xyz was happening on a certain date for weeks on end, like your situation. They are still building in our neighborhood and the delays are super long. Covid plays into in some, but largely it is the fault of the contractor, which is wild, because the houses are all sold - as in under contract, sold. They don’t get the bulk of the $$ until the house is finished & closed, so why delay? Adjacent neighborhoods with different developers are not having this issue - they are working at a normal building speed more or less. This has been a hot market for several years & the interest in the area only increases at this point. 

FWIW, a pre-drywall inspection is standard around here. The contractors expect it and give a heads up to when they are close to being ready so the buyer can schedule it.

House building is a real pain - I’m so sorry. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by TechWife

[Carrie12345]

32 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I’ve ever heard of a mortgage closing on a house that is incomplete or without an occupancy permit. But, I also don’t understand why you’re holding the construction loan as typically those are held by the contractor around here

We could have secured all that through the building company, but the terms weren’t great. And we purchased our own land instead of using a property they owned. Not that they wouldn’t have purchased it on our behalf, but it was over their typical “allowance”, and it was, maybe weirdly, emotionally important to me that WE owned that land instead of them.  Like, I’ve been going over and cutting scrub brush whenever I’m able to, and no one can tell me I can’t. It’s my property. 😛 

We’re using a local bank that has a lot of experience with this builder as well as other local builders, so it isn’t unusual for the area. I don’t know how much experience they have with things going over the expected timeline though.  Based on our earlier conversations, they were definitely overwhelmed with their volume in 2021!

[Faith-manor]

43 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

We could have secured all that through the building company, but the terms weren’t great. And we purchased our own land instead of using a property they owned. Not that they wouldn’t have purchased it on our behalf, but it was over their typical “allowance”, and it was, maybe weirdly, emotionally important to me that WE owned that land instead of them.  Like, I’ve been going over and cutting scrub brush whenever I’m able to, and no one can tell me I can’t. It’s my property. 😛 

We’re using a local bank that has a lot of experience with this builder as well as other local builders, so it isn’t unusual for the area. I don’t know how much experience they have with things going over the expected timeline though.  Based on our earlier conversations, they were definitely overwhelmed with their volume in 2021!

I bet that. When we built in Oregon, everyone in that subdivision financed their land through the development company and contractor wrapped up with the house so no one owned it until closing. We had enough down payment money from our house sale in Indiana to buy our lot outright. So we owned that and then got a construction loan for the house. This really bugged the contractor and his crews because they didn't like me being around, but could not stop it. Me being around and picnicking on the lawn or pulling weeds along the fence was so important. Numerous times I stopped dumb things from happening that would have required fixing. And when they went 30 days without doing anything, I had that documented because I was there every day taking pictures. At one point I threatened to put up a garden shed and camp in it if they did not get their ducks in a row and get the house done. That would have fired up the HOA and the developer, and he knew it. He got a LOT of his business from that property developer so screwing up that relationship would have cost him a ton of money and future jobs. I think he thought I was a real B. But we spent months being nice, professional, and patient, and all it got us was insult and injury. I decided I was done putting up with being the customer at the bottom getting constantly kicked down the road to the point that our future mortgage was in grave jeopardy. I am so glad we owned the land outright.

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

It looks like I was wrong about the stairs/door… for the most part.
We got a response explaining how that works.  But now we’re following up because we can’t envision how the grading of that opening can possibly coexist with the grading of the front steps, which are significantly higher. In my layperson head, that calls for either a very strange hill or a retaining wall, which we did not budget for.  Hopefully there’s a quick and simple answer!

I’m always glad to be wrong about things when it means no time consuming, expensive, or complicated solutions are needed!

Dh was explaining this to me but I couldn't understand it either.