s/o tipping for carry out stuff

[Tap]

12 hours ago, SKL said:

In my state, there is a different minimum wage for servers in jobs where tipping is the norm (waitress in a restaurant etc.).  AFAIK this does not include Starbucks counter employees.  (Maybe that is why in my state, it has not been the norm to tip such employees, other than the occasional cash in jar tip.)

Also, they don't ask me for a tip when I order at the drive-through.  It's the exact same amount of work (possibly more) at drive-through.  So I'm not sure how that makes sense.

So have they changed the wage category of these individuals, in which case I should start tipping regularly?  Or is this just a way of increasing the cost of already overpriced products?  (The Starbucks in question charged me $7 for a latte and then asked if I wanted to tip.  This place is just a counter - it has no tables to sit at.)

Here in Washington, all employees are paid at least minimum wage (currently $14.49/hr).  Every drive through  I have gone thru in the past year, used one of the card scanners that they hold out for the customer. The customer puts thier card in and it asks for a tip $$. Some of those places, now also have tip jars that sit on the window ledge or hang out the window. Subway, Papa Murphy's, small Chinese food take out place, Teriyaki take out place with a few tables, local taco stand/small businesses....all have tip jars. I really can't think of any place that sells food/drink...that don't tip jars or ask you to tip on the electronic pad. Home Depot and the grocery store will probably have them next. Then it will be tipping for the dentist and the clerk at the clothing store and my gas meter reader. Basic gratuity has slowly gone from 10% to 15% and now 20%. At some point, UPS drivers will had my my package and hold out thier hand. I say that as a joke, but the drivers who deliver fresh groceries for companies like Amazon already get tipped, so that one isn't even as far fetched as it seems.  It is getting to the point that, who we tip and the percentage, is growing faster than my wages!   

Edited January 27, 2022 by Tap

[Carrie12345]

I do have issues with counter tip “jars”.

The pittance few bucks waitstaff is allowed to be paid is legally reserved for waitstaff waiting on physical tables.  Possibly bartenders, too.  The absurd law intends for tips to make up that difference. The tips get claimed, and the taxes are generally withheld from the few bucks an hour in paycheck. As a former server, it’s important to me to tip well. 

Take out service, otoh, is typically provided by people not making waitstaff wages.  (If a server is spending their time largely doing non-server things, they’re supposed to be paid non-server wages.)  When “someone I know” was working drive-thru/counter only, they were making $12/hr and also receiving a nice bit of cash tips. But the establishment was not set up to process tips, because they didn’t have waitstaff on the payroll. So no taxes. Also, staff split all tips, so it wasn’t even as if the most helpful person received their favorite regular’s big tip or anything like that.

Places that automatically ask digitally or on a paper receipt don’t really have an option to skip that. Their system is set up for employing servers and automatically calculating their tip-included payroll.  It’s really not meant to be harassing.

There are many places where people are happy to tip, but the employer forbids employees from accepting them because of the tax issue. Like when  I used to load bags and bags of topsoil into people’s cars. 😱 

For me, it’s an ethical issue. The messed up system we have expects customers to determine ultimate wages for servers and it isn’t right. Meanwhile, there are people making not-$2-3/hr getting equivalent tips for providing less or different services, and not even paying taxes on them. And it chaps my hide.

I still tip here and there for excellent service in various circumstances, but typically not for receiving a drive through coffee our counter wings.  Give servers decent wages and I’ll change my tune, because all tips will be genuine gratuities instead of “Here’s a bit of your rent for the month.”

 

[LucyStoner]

Sometimes I tip at carry out places, sometimes I don’t.  I never feel guilty about how much or if I tip for carry out.  
 

At Starbucks, we pay with the app.  There’s not an option to add a tip that I have seen.  It doesn’t prompt me to tip at all.  I will put change or a dollar on a tip jar for coffee at many coffee shops but no, I don’t add 15-25% of the bill.  
 

There is no service wage here.  Minimum wage applies to workers who get tips or not.  State minimum wage is $14.49.  The city now has a minimum wage of $17 and something.  Prevailing wage for a lot of jobs that used to pay minimum wage is $20.  
 

I do think that people who don’t tip door dash or Instacart delivery people are evidence that evil walks among us.  👀

Edited January 27, 2022 by LucyStoner

[Eos]

I'm a fan of this group: https://onefairwage.site/ though I know they are primarily focused on sit-down establishments not takeout.  

I do think the pandemic has changed the tipping landscape.  Pre-covid, I remember research that said that when comparing food, service, and atmosphere it was actually atmosphere that came up as the main reason people ate out (I'm sorry I can't find that study cite.)  But now, with no atmosphere other than my car or reheating slightly cold food in my kitchen, the feeling I have about restaurants is more about convenience or supporting local business, less about feeling special.  Having said all that, I do tip extravagantly in all situations but recognize I am an outlier.

From One Fair Wage: Seventy percent of tipped workers are women. Since a living base wage is not guaranteed, and women are instead forced to depend on tips, restaurant workers report experiencing the highest rates of harassment from customers, co-workers, and management of any industry. The EEOC has targeted the restaurant industry as the single largest source of sexual harassment charges filed by women with a rate FIVE TIMES higher than any other industry.

They have both anecdata and research about harassment taking new forms during the pandemic like guys telling women to take off their mask so they know how much to tip them.

But also: And now app-based companies like InstaCart, DoorDash, Uber, and Lyft are also pushing for subminimum wages for their employees, arguing that their customer tips should count toward their workers’ payments. Subminimum wages are also paid to workers with disabilities, incarcerated workers, and youth workers in most states. 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Eos

[Tenaj]

12 hours ago, Amethyst said:

I agree with OP. I hate those things that want a tip for just handing over the box of pizza I paid for. I click NO TIP without guilt. 

I always tip generously for our pizza.  We usually order from the same place and I want them to remember that I tip when they are making my next pizzas. 

[LuvToRead]

The only time a tip jar really annoyed me was at a self-serve frozen yogurt shop.  I generally pay cash so I guess I haven't really noticed a tip prompt on a card reader.  I do tip for take-out though. 

[Farrar]

Minimum wage here is $15.50. I usually tip 10% on proper takeout (getting the order right and well packaged is a thing) and put in a dollar or two depending on the order on a cafe counter order. But sometimes I don't. And I don't feel guilty when I don't do it. 

I would prefer that tipping just not be a thing for any service - it's stressful and weird and everyone thinks they're doing it right and everyone else is wrong or thinks they're doing it wrong and beats themselves up over it. I would prefer that we all walk around safe in the knowledge that everyone's basic needs are being met in general, especially people who work. But that's not really America, so I guess I'm stuck with tipping sometimes instead.

[Annie G]

11 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

 

 

Also, the McDonalds/Dunkin comparison made me laugh. Here, we have 7 people working in McDonanlds, all working different lines, and none look you in the face, but the Dunkin girl knows my voice on the speaker and my peach green tea is always perfect. She gets tipped.

It could have been any two fast food places- the particular ones don’t matter.  Our Chick fil A knows us and are super polite and friendly and helpful.  But they aren’t tipped.  Perhaps the McDonald’s workers mentioned above are overworked- maybe they really need 9 folks running the line and they’re choosing to work harder to get orders out vs making eye contact and smiling.   (Or perhaps they’re not great employees and don’t care about customer service. Who knows) I’m totally fine with folks tipping for excellent service- your example makes perfect sense.  But I want tipping culture in this country to be replaced with decent wages.

[Bootsie]

3 hours ago, Eos said:

I'm a fan of this group: https://onefairwage.site/ though I know they are primarily focused on sit-down establishments not takeout.  

I do think the pandemic has changed the tipping landscape.  Pre-covid, I remember research that said that when comparing food, service, and atmosphere it was actually atmosphere that came up as the main reason people ate out (I'm sorry I can't find that study cite.)  But now, with no atmosphere other than my car or reheating slightly cold food in my kitchen, the feeling I have about restaurants is more about convenience or supporting local business, less about feeling special.  Having said all that, I do tip extravagantly in all situations but recognize I am an outlier.

From One Fair Wage: Seventy percent of tipped workers are women. Since a living base wage is not guaranteed, and women are instead forced to depend on tips, restaurant workers report experiencing the highest rates of harassment from customers, co-workers, and management of any industry. The EEOC has targeted the restaurant industry as the single largest source of sexual harassment charges filed by women with a rate FIVE TIMES higher than any other industry.

They have both anecdata and research about harassment taking new forms during the pandemic like guys telling women to take off their mask so they know how much to tip them.

But also: And now app-based companies like InstaCart, DoorDash, Uber, and Lyft are also pushing for subminimum wages for their employees, arguing that their customer tips should count toward their workers’ payments. Subminimum wages are also paid to workers with disabilities, incarcerated workers, and youth workers in most states. 

I would like for prices to be stated, wages, to be stated, and for tipping to be eliminated so people aren't going around guessing what they might make.  However, the majority of the people I know who do not want tipping eliminated are people who earn tips.  Repeatedly they tell me that their hourly wage is higher that way (especially when they consider that they do not report and pay taxes on all o it).  

[Brittany1116]

Just now, Annie G said:

It could have been any two fast food places- the particular ones don’t matter.  Our Chick fil A knows us and are super polite and friendly and helpful.  But they aren’t tipped.  Perhaps the McDonald’s workers mentioned above are overworked- maybe they really need 9 folks running the line and they’re choosing to work harder to get orders out vs making eye contact and smiling.   (Or perhaps they’re not great employees and don’t care about customer service. Who knows) I’m totally fine with folks tipping for excellent service- your example makes perfect sense.  But I want tipping culture in this country to be replaced with decent wages.

Oh I realize that. The original post was in stark contrast to my locals so it was funny. I do think most of the McDs workers just don't want to be there.

ChickFilA is an enigma because they have a policy to not accept tips and no matter where we are when we stop at one, EVERY employee is always doing the very most. That's their company culture and it's expected and it shows; everyone loves CFA customer service. Publix grocery stores operates along the same lines. But neither of those have tipped positions, they have simply excluded themselves from tip culture. 

[Bootsie]

5 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I Places that automatically ask digitally or on a paper receipt don’t really have an option to skip that. Their system is set up for employing servers and automatically calculating their tip-included payroll.  It’s really not meant to be harassing.

 

I just don't see how this could be the case.  The same type of readers are used in bookstores, flea markets, and other places of business.   If there is a programming issue where this automatically comes up, surely the people deciding to use that software can ask for the feature to be turned off.  All of the employees in these situations are not servers so their system of collecting money from customers should not be set up for employing servers, it should be set up to collect the amount due from the customer.  

[cjzimmer1]

56 minutes ago, Brittany1116 said:

.

ChickFilA is an enigma because they have a policy to not accept tips and no matter where we are when we stop at one, EVERY employee is always doing the very most. That's their company culture and it's expected and it shows; everyone loves CFA customer service. Publix grocery stores operates along the same lines. But neither of those have tipped positions, they have simply excluded themselves from tip culture. 

My daughter works at ChickFilA.  I don't know if it's just her store but they are allowed to accept tips.  However most of the employees put them in the community jar and then they get used to bring in treats for the employees or plan a special fun event.  My daughter could make more per hour most anywhere else (wages have drastically risen the last few months as places are desperate for workers) but she chooses to work there because the culture and co-workers are so supportive.  She had a really nasty customer a few months back that reduced her to tears.  As soon as the manager on duty saw what was going on, he immediately took over, sent her to the back so she could recover, checked on her repeatedly to make sure she was doing ok and said to take whatever time she needed before coming back out to work.  And as she left work for the day he handed her a milkshake (he knows they are her favorite). The next day the owner of the store tracked her down to talk about what happened and make sure she was okay and see if there was anything he could do to make her feel better.  She gladly trades having a little less cash in her pocket to know that her co-workers and boss have her back.

Edited January 27, 2022 by cjzimmer1

[Carrie12345]

52 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I just don't see how this could be the case.  The same type of readers are used in bookstores, flea markets, and other places of business.   If there is a programming issue where this automatically comes up, surely the people deciding to use that software can ask for the feature to be turned off.  All of the employees in these situations are not servers so their system of collecting money from customers should not be set up for employing servers, it should be set up to collect the amount due from the customer.  

I’ve never personally been visually prompted for a tip outside of food and hair/nail places. But I suppose there could easily be people ordering the cheapest or easiest point of sale system and not bothering to customize it.  

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

I just don't see how this could be the case.  The same type of readers are used in bookstores, flea markets, and other places of business.   If there is a programming issue where this automatically comes up, surely the people deciding to use that software can ask for the feature to be turned off.  All of the employees in these situations are not servers so their system of collecting money from customers should not be set up for employing servers, it should be set up to collect the amount due from the customer.  

Agreed.  I'm not buying "Starbucks has no choice in what the program does."  Starbucks could easily buy the programming company and all of its buildings.  Much easier to ask for a simple tweak in programming.  When I was 13 (in 1980) I could program a rule to skip a process I didn't need.

[SKL]

Now if the options were "pay now" or "add a tip" (without the former being harder to choose), that wouldn't bother me as much, I don't think.

But I do think it's a problem the way tip complexities are clouding blue-collar compensation.

I was always afraid to be a waitress, for various reasons.  I tip well for decent service in a restaurant, partly because doing it all with a smile is freaking hard, and partly because I know they don't make as much pre-tip as others who work similarly hard.  Also because, assuming at least a good chunk of my tip goes to the person who served me, there is a connection there and I've hopefully made someone happy.

But I do find the tip culture confusing often.  I worry that I've given too much or too little at times.  After a worker leaves my house, I may wonder if I should have thought to tip him/her.  But when I offer a tip, it is often refused as forbidden or even offensive.  Part of this is just me being stupid.  I was raised by poor parents and was broke/frugal most of my life, so I didn't have occasion to study tipping rules beyond wait staff and haircuts.  Now I consider it something to teach my kids, but how, when it gets more confusing every day ....