If You Don’t Teach Latin

[Green Bean]

What did you teach instead? What resources did you use?

Are my kids going to be considered “less” because we did everything classical style except Latin/Greek?

[Slache]

What are your concerns? Without Latin I would use a solid grammar program and probably a Greek and Latin roots program.

Out of 4 of my kids I think 1, maybe 2 will actually do Latin.

[Green Bean]

I think my concerns are we will be missing something important if we don't or somehow my children will not be well-educated or considered such without it. But every time I look into Latin programs I feel like I'm going to toss my cookies. I don't want to do it in a deep, visceral way. I would rather use a roots program like CTC's Word Roots and, as you said, a solid grammar program alongside more composition instruction.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Green Bean

[Carol in Cal.]

We did a tiny bit of Latin using the Memoria Press curricula, largely because there were instructional DVDs available for it.

But mostly we used Vocabulary Vine for roots, and Rod and Staff for grammar.

[Eilonwy]

We do German and French instead of Latin.  German in particular has lots of grammar concepts to learn that don’t occur in English, and French has Latin roots.  We’re currently using a mix of CAP’s  French for Children and the ULAT for French, and the local German Saturday school plus my native-speaker partner for German.  I don’t know Latin myself, and it has far fewer speakers than these two modern languages, so they made more sense for us.  
Latin is, in my mind, an “enthusiast” subject, so I think it would be great for those who want to but I can’t really imagine most people considering your kids “less” if they didn’t do Latin, especially if you substituted with something like grammar, roots, or modern languages. 

[HomeAgain]

I have one kid who struggled so hard with Latin it wasn't worth pursuing beyond the basics.  For him, we switched focus to Greek & Latin roots, just ways to break down English vocabulary into chunks so he could spell and decode new words.  I did insist on one foreign language, and he did a few years of Italian before switching to Spanish - where he found good teachers and a love of the language. I also insisted on an instrument to use that part of the brain.

I have another kid who thrives with Latin, and French, and whatever else he picks up (ASL for a few years, Greek as a hobby..). He also plays an instrument.

I can honestly say I don't think either kid got a better education than the other.  I think both ended up with a tailored approach that helped nurture interests and help them decide what they wanted to pursue.  It would not have been worth the hours of tears to continue Latin for the oldest kid, especially if I could leave it as sparking a light and letting him come back to it on his own when he was ready.

[Slache]

If you don't do Latin you'll be missing Latin. I would not put an ounce of concern into this. We are homeschooling to do what is right for our families, not to meet others expectations.

[kirstenhill]

Out of my four kids, only one has studied Latin.  DS14 asked to try Latin in 4th-5th grade, and then also chose it as his high school level foreign language.  DD17 and DS12 both did Duolingo German in elementary and are/will taking German for high school. DS10 is severely dyslexic and I can barely wrap my mind around what he will do for foreign language in the future.  Everyone has done some level of vocabulary/word root studies at one point or another. 

My latin student, DS14 is the weakest (of the older 3, not counting the dyslexic kid) at testing that involves language/vocab skills despite the Latin - his strengths are in other areas.   DS12 scores extremely high on vocab, etc in standardized testing w/o Latin study.  So while it's a good thing, Latin study certainly isn't the end all be all for good educational outcomes. 

 

 

[Miss Tick]

3 minutes ago, kirstenhill said:

So while it's a good thing, Latin study certainly isn't the end all be all for good educational outcomes. 

Yes! There have been some will rained discussions on the past about Latin not being superior to modern languages. What you can get from Latin you can get from modern languages. Ester Maria had some very convincing arguments. 

All that said, we spent a few years in elementary and middle working through a basic Latin and Roman history program. For modern languages, starting in elementary we do Spanish in the context of life. I know it medium-well, so we incorporate it as if we were all learning it from scratch: board books, songs, TV, beginner videos, everything the library offers, Salsa, ULAT, etc. Outside of that we keep an eye out for opportunities in the language of interest, particularly tutors. By the time my dc get to middle school I start outsourcing to get them real conversation and grammar practice. They usually have enough of the basics by that point that class is very enjoyable.

[Xahm]

My viewpoint is colored very much by my high school/college experiences with products of neo-classical homeschools and private Christian schools. There is a certain segment of the population that will judge you for not doing Latin. It's the folks like the ones I knew who believed themselves (or their children) to be vastly superior to all others because they studied Latin for years and could chant declinations. Their actual ability didn't matter. They were now superior people with superior minds. We plebeians who had studied modern languages to the ability to read a simple children's book without the aid of a dictionary and order a meal in our chosen language or even to actual fluency, had no conception of what it really meant to STUDY a language. 

In case it isn't clear, those people who judge you can lick my boots, or hopefully just learn some humility when they experience life with others and realize that there are many paths to developing an organized mind with the ability to tackle complex subjects. Many of the Latin "scholars" I knew hadn't even developed anything past hubris.

Studying Latin can be a fine and wonderful thing, but for my children, it's an elective that I will neither encourage or discourage. Studying higher math (to develop those analytical skills) and modern language (for linguistic and communication skills) is a requirement for my highly capable children. Modern language has a huge benefit in that it helps with perspective. When one studies hard and rejoices when finally able to begin understanding children's tv perfectly, one is less likely to judge those who come to a new country and struggle to quickly acclimate to the language demands. Additionally, studying a modern language means one is more likely to be able to be of assistance to a newcomer, or to be able to travel to a new land without being totally lost and isolated upon arrival. 

Latin has a lot of great resources out there for homeschoolers, which I believe is a major reason it is so popular (which then leads to more resources, and around and around). It can be studied very well and some students do learn it to a level at which they can read ancient texts in the original. The students I knew who got to that level tended to also pick up a modern language and were not such jerks.  Most students study Latin to the level of checking the box for language study. To be fair, the vast majority of those studying modern language are just box-checking, too. I don't think there's anything really wrong with focusing on some subjects and having others that are there just to check a box and not close doors, but studying Latin just to appease the egos of neo-classical snobs is unnecessary. 

 

Edit: to be clear, the above was written with a certain amount of annoyed humor. There are thousands of good reasons to do Latin with your children. Trying to get into the good graces of those who would otherwise judge you is a horrible reason. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Xahm

[Lawyer&Mom]

I did Latin in high school and enjoyed it, but I’m doing a modern language with my kids, at least in elementary school.  I think Latin made a lot of practical sense for homeschoolers because it could be taught well without access to a fluent speaker.  But I think the internet changed the whole calculus.  I have easy access to French resources that would have been unthinkable even a decade ago.  Unlimited French dubbed cartoons on Netflix and Disney+.  Truly excellent instruction on The ULAT.  The ability to quickly order native children's books on Amazon and ThriftBooks.  Access to French as a Foreign Language textbooks from France, and not just homeschooling materials.  I’m not a total beginner in French, I have fairly solid passive skills, but I’m not at all a fluent speaker.  But I can get my kids going places in French.  And I can provide them with tons of native spoken French.   Makes Latin seem kind of dull in comparison.  Netflix doesn’t dub My Little Pony into Latin.  (Yes, I want my kids to consume twaddle in their foreign language.  Not going to lie.) 

There are still a ton of reasons to study Latin if you want to.  But it’s harder for Latin to compete with all the modern language resources available. 
 

[daijobu]

I didn't study Latin in high school, so I didn't see much point in having my kids learn.  Spanish is an alternative Romance language that is used by many Americans, so why not kill 2 birds with one stone?  

I used Michael Clay Thompson for language arts, which includes an excellent vocabulary curriculum.  

[Green Bean]

Thank you, everyone. I can let Latin stay in its grave then with zero regrets.

I had not heard of The ULAT before. I'm going to poke around there. French is actually what I was thinking of instead as I have a tiny bit of background from university a very very long time ago. 

I am very curious about the MCT program. I love how the parts of speech are represented as molecules of language. We love chemistry so that appeals. That is for another thread, I guess.

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

We are studying Latin only as it pertains to English vocabulary (via the aforementioned MCT). We’ll begin a modern foreign language in middle school.  

Edited December 8, 2021 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[Lori D.]

I originally intended for us to do Latin, but discovered several years into homeschooling that ANY foreign language was NOT going to work for my real life children. 😉 We had some unexpected LD needs surface that required intensive time in getting solid with reading, writing, and spelling in English, so sucked away any time that we could have spent on Latin (and Spanish).

However, we did do Greek/Latin root study for several years in the late elementary grades, and that worked extremely well for vocabulary. And DSs did very well with Grammar, with had been another reason I had planned on Latin, so it all worked out fine without the Latin.

[Renai]

I remember suggesting to my dh years ago, that our then-6 year old start learning Latin. He looked at me like I had two heads. English and Spanish are requirements here as a bilingual family, so tacking on Latin just seemed weird to him. I'm glad we just focused on those two languages, and chose a non-Romance language to learn because she turned out to be dyslexic with a few other comorbid issues. Three Roman-letter-based languages would have been too much, but Japanese was right up her alley. (She wasn't reading comfortably in English until around 6th grade, and that was with a lot of work.)

The Greek/Latin root study later in elementary turned out good for both of her languages (English and Spanish) because of the many cognates, and she said she saw where many of the Spanish words came from and how it made a lot more sense. We watched The Passion, which is done in Hebrew and Latin, and she understood about 80% of what the Roman soldiers were saying because of her knowledge of Spanish. So, we didn't miss out on anything by not doing Latin.

[Green Bean]

As an aside- what's the Likes button protocol here? Do I Like everyone's comments? If I don't, are people insulted because I didn't Like them and therefore will never respond again? 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Green Bean

[El...]

I don't think there is one. Sometimes I like all the posts on my own threads, just so the responder knows it was read. Beyond that, who has the bandwidth to keep track?

7 hours ago, Green Bean said:

As an aside- what's the Likes button protocol here? Do I Like everyone's comments? If I don't, are people insulted because I didn't Like them and therefore will never respond again? 

 Also, we don't do Latin here at the moment. It just didn't appeal to us. We're studying some modern languages.

[Slache]

9 hours ago, Green Bean said:

As an aside- what's the Likes button protocol here? Do I Like everyone's comments? If I don't, are people insulted because I didn't Like them and therefore will never respond again? 

There's not one. We're super casual here. Though you should know we do like for support so if you post something negative and get a like it's basically a hug.

[Green Bean]

Got it- casual Like as I feel. Thank you for the clueing in.