PSA: If you think you would be better off dead, you might be depressed.

[Carol in Cal.]

Not kidding about this.

Depression always lies.  And this is its most dangerous lie.  

I’ve had this conversation with two friends in the not too distant past, neither of whom realized how far into depression they had spiraled until I held up this mirror—Hey, do you think you might be depressed?  Because saying you don’t want to be alive is pretty serious.  This sounds like it’s time for help, do you have meds that you can take?  Do you want to take one right now and come back and tell me you did it?  Wouldn’t that feel better?  Can we pray together after that?

Thankfully both of them started antidepressants immediately and they are both fine now.  (I know it doesn’t always go that way.). They had them on hand; one it turned out had suffered from serious depression off and on for quite a while, which I had not known, and the doctor had been trying to talk her into starting them again but she hadn’t done it yet for a reason that I think she probably now realizes was pretty much another depression lie, and the other had had meds prescribed for a single episode a year before but had not taken any so he had them around.

Neither of them realized that they were depressed except in retrospect.  They had slipped into it slowly and not really noticed it happening.

This is a tough year for everyone, and this time of year is also always tough for some.  We don’t have the usual social connections to help with this.

Please don’t wait to act on depression whether you have it or see it in someone else.  Sometimes it’s truly a matter of life and death.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Spryte]

It’s true.  Depression is a terrible liar.

I’m glad your friends had you, and got help.

[Guest]

I agree. But, let me say this, because this happens with me sometimes and I don’t really understand it, except that I think its biochemical. I can be going along just fine, feeling optimistic, feeling fine, and I will just think, “It would be easier if I didn’t have to just keep on living.” Then, I usually think, “Wow. That was dark.” And then I go on as normal. I’m not depressed and it has never evolved into plans or advanced fantasies of taking myself out. But really, since my teen years, I would sometimes just think briefly how the struggles in life never really stop and I momentarily think, I wish I could just get off the damn carousel. 

I sometimes wonder if “everybody” has those thoughts or if it is my special talent, lol. 

[Corbster98]

25 minutes ago, Quill said:

I agree. But, let me say this, because this happens with me sometimes and I don’t really understand it, except that I think its biochemical. I can be going along just fine, feeling optimistic, feeling fine, and I will just think, “It would be easier if I didn’t have to just keep on living.” Then, I usually think, “Wow. That was dark.” And then I go on as normal. I’m not depressed and it has never evolved into plans or advanced fantasies of taking myself out. But really, since my teen years, I would sometimes just think briefly how the struggles in life never really stop and I momentarily think, I wish I could just get off the damn carousel. 

I sometimes wonder if “everybody” has those thoughts or if it is my special talent, lol. 

Not just you Quill.

My adult life seems to be just one major crisis/ trauma after another, with some blessings mixed in. As I am starting to feel like I am getting my feet back underneath me again, the carpet is ripped right back out from underneath. As you said perfectly, this neverending 'damn carousel.' I am not kidding when I say, 'it is ALWAYS something'.  I have lived long enough to just expect crap to hit the fan especially if things start going smoothly. I almost look out for it now, unfortunately. My first thought is 'of course this is happening'. 

I so get it. 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by allySW

[Not_a_Number]

49 minutes ago, Quill said:

I agree. But, let me say this, because this happens with me sometimes and I don’t really understand it, except that I think its biochemical. I can be going along just fine, feeling optimistic, feeling fine, and I will just think, “It would be easier if I didn’t have to just keep on living.” Then, I usually think, “Wow. That was dark.” And then I go on as normal. I’m not depressed and it has never evolved into plans or advanced fantasies of taking myself out. But really, since my teen years, I would sometimes just think briefly how the struggles in life never really stop and I momentarily think, I wish I could just get off the damn carousel. 

I sometimes wonder if “everybody” has those thoughts or if it is my special talent, lol. 

I have them with some frequency. And no, I'm not at all depressive. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

I agree. But, let me say this, because this happens with me sometimes and I don’t really understand it, except that I think its biochemical. I can be going along just fine, feeling optimistic, feeling fine, and I will just think, “It would be easier if I didn’t have to just keep on living.” Then, I usually think, “Wow. That was dark.” And then I go on as normal. I’m not depressed and it has never evolved into plans or advanced fantasies of taking myself out. But really, since my teen years, I would sometimes just think briefly how the struggles in life never really stop and I momentarily think, I wish I could just get off the damn carousel. 

I sometimes wonder if “everybody” has those thoughts or if it is my special talent, lol. 

Not alone.

Having said that I generally find that when I feel like that I need to lay down for a daytime nap and it gets better.  
 

[Not_a_Number]

26 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Not alone.

Having said that I generally find that when I feel like that I need to lay down for a daytime nap and it gets better.  

See, for me, it'd not even a bad mood, necessarily. It just comes and goes. 

[Drama Llama]

So, if someone's taking antidepressants and they still feel like that, then what?

[regentrude]

3 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

This sounds like it’s time for help, do you have meds that you can take?  Do you want to take one right now and come back and tell me you did it?  Wouldn’t that feel better? 

Taking an antidepressant pill won't make the person feel better immediately afterwards and is not helping if someone is acutely suicidal. And some folks are on meds for years and still depressed..

My friend who had two suicide attempts this year has been taking meds for a long time.

It's very tough for friends,  because  there isn't anything anyone can really do to help when stuff gets bad.

Edited December 19, 2020 by regentrude

[regentrude]

I think it's not so much the " I would be better off dead" (for which there can be a number of very valid reasons) - it's  the thought "My loved ones would be better off if I were dead" that's the red flag for seriously distorted thinking. 

[Pam in CT]

and if it still feels unbearable then what?

22 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

So, if someone's taking antidepressants and they still feel like that, then what?

Keep trying.  (I know you know this but) medication is an art not a science; it often takes a few runs to get the right fit and the right dosage; and sometimes even after things are working reasonably well for a reasonable while, either a physical change or an exogenous event or just some mysterious unknown can knock the person off again and the dosage needs re-calibration or the medication needs to be swapped out again.

Same with therapy -- there are plenty of good people, good therapists, and bad fits... there are also some bad therapists... and there are a lot of good people who aren't ready for truly productive therapy. It's *hard* to get a good fit. If the fit still feel off after a few sessions, try another therapist. Yes, exhausting, just when there's not enough oomph to get out of bed.

Figure out one person in your life who will ALWAYS tell you, without any other words or conditions or platitudes or any of a zillion other mixed messages: Please. Stay. Alive.  Tell that person some signal, that you'll use to convey you need to hear it.

And then actually tell the person when you need to hear it.  And then hear them, as they do. Please. Stay. Alive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are dark times.

The light will return.

We are not alone; do our best to hold each other up.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

See, for me, it'd not even a bad mood, necessarily. It just comes and goes. 

Yeah for me that kind of thinking is not really depression related it’s just sheer exhaustion with all the stuff of life.  If I can get a break it gets better.  

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

So, if someone's taking antidepressants and they still feel like that, then what?

The person needs people around them who know what’s going on and who will check in.  

[Stacia]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

So, if someone's taking antidepressants and they still feel like that, then what?

Try a different one.

I took antidepressants/anti-anxiety medicine a few years ago. A couple of weeks into taking it, I realized I was having suicidal thoughts. I knew that was not normal. (It's a weird, but true, possible side-effect of many antidepressants.)

My doctor pulled me off that one & I started a different one. Night & day difference for me. The second one helped me so much, helped me get to a much better place, & I was eventually able to wean off of them about a year later.

As Pam said, sometimes it takes a bit to find the correct one for each person. Know that if it's not working, it's worth working with a doctor to try others until the right one is found.

[Drama Llama]

27 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The person needs people around them who know what’s going on and who will check in.  

And do what?  What should someone do if they check in and there's trouble?

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Taking an antidepressant pill won't make the person feel better immediately afterwards and is not helping if someone is acutely suicidal. And some folks are on meds for years and still depressed..

My friend who had two suicide attempts this year has been taking meds for a long time.

It's very tough for friends,  because  there isn't anything anyone can really do to help when stuff gets bad.

Resistant depression is a thing.

And it’s very, very hard on everyone involved.

[Ausmumof3]

16 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

And do what?  What should someone do if they check in and there's trouble?

 

I think that’s going to depend on the specific risks and details of the situation.  

[regentrude]

One thing you can do to help your mentally ill friends: vote for politicians who want to expand , instead of reduce, access to health care.

The wait times to get seen by a psychiatrist are crazy, especially in rural areas - there just aren't enough providers. Therapy and medication are unaffordable for many people. My friend's mood stabilizing medication is $1,200 per month after insurance; his reduced cost trial ran out and he cannot afford the pills (who could???). Experimenting with psychiatric meds requires access to a qualified provider and funds to pay for the treatment. That is a huge barrier, especially since mental illness often limits a person's earning potential. We need a systemic change and universal healthcare that includes mental health.
 

 

[regentrude]

22 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

And do what?  What should someone do if they check in and there's trouble?

Stay with the person and do not leave them alone. Take them to the ER if necessary. And hope that keeping them alive for one more day may mean the suicide impulse has passed, at least for a while.
You can't pray away their depression. You can't make them well. But you can save them in the moment, for the short term. And that is often sufficient.

Edited December 20, 2020 by regentrude

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

And do what?  What should someone do if they check in and there's trouble?

 

Go where they are and be with them even if they try to get you to leave.  Be very stubborn about this.  I know two people who HAD PLANS (so, way further along that the folks in the OP) and said later that that is the only reason they did not carry them out.  They were incredibly annoyed at the time, and it did effect their friendships, but it was necessary.  Also, say, Please stay here with us.  It’s weird but sometimes I think that gets through.

[Carol in Cal.]

There needs to be less of a barrier to entry for psychiatry education as well as for other specialties in med school.  There is a shortage of doctors in this country, and that’s no accident.  And it’s getting worse as older doctors are retiring quickly, and newer ones are drawing serious boundaries about accepting new patients, especially older patients who are already sick.  There are a lot of people who literally cannot find a doctor or specialist, and that’s not just because of insurance—it’s because of supply issues.

[Amy in NH]

5 hours ago, Quill said:

 I wish I could just get off the damn carousel. 

I sometimes wonder if “everybody” has those thoughts or if it is my special talent, lol. 

You're not the only one with these thoughts. 

What is the point of all of this struggle? 

The only reason I'm still here is for DH and my kids.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

35 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

There needs to be less of a barrier to entry for psychiatry education as well as for other specialties in med school.  There is a shortage of doctors in this country, and that’s no accident.  And it’s getting worse as older doctors are retiring quickly, and newer ones are drawing serious boundaries about accepting new patients, especially older patients who are already sick.  There are a lot of people who literally cannot find a doctor or specialist, and that’s not just because of insurance—it’s because of supply issues.

Also, psychiatry is one of the lower paid specialties.  People who are $300,000+ in school debt are going to gravitate towards higher paying careers. 

[kbutton]

As an aside because I don’t want to take away from the main topic, but I believe that spontaneous negative thoughts are called intrusive thoughts, and they don’t have to have depressive overtones.

I read somewhere that most people have intrusive thoughts, but that most people dismiss them as odd and don’t credit them as valid.

I suspect some people have them more often or have a wider variety of thoughts that are intrusive.

I get the impression that they don’t stem from anxiety and depression, but how you deal with them can be related to anxiety and depression.

Once I learned there was a name for this and that they are common, my own intrusive thoughts decreased in frequency. I guess I dwell on them less now that I know they aren’t abnormal. 

[kiwik]

9 hours ago, Quill said:

I agree. But, let me say this, because this happens with me sometimes and I don’t really understand it, except that I think its biochemical. I can be going along just fine, feeling optimistic, feeling fine, and I will just think, “It would be easier if I didn’t have to just keep on living.” Then, I usually think, “Wow. That was dark.” And then I go on as normal. I’m not depressed and it has never evolved into plans or advanced fantasies of taking myself out. But really, since my teen years, I would sometimes just think briefly how the struggles in life never really stop and I momentarily think, I wish I could just get off the damn carousel. 

I sometimes wonder if “everybody” has those thoughts or if it is my special talent, lol. 

I am depressed and have never had more than fleeting "it would be easier if this all stopped thoughts" in nearly 40 years of on again off again treatment.  If you are sleeping 26 hours a day you either have cat blood or are depressed.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, kiwik said:

I am depressed and have never had more than fleeting "it would be easier if this all stopped thoughts" in nearly 40 years of on again off again treatment.  If you are sleeping 26 hours a day you either have cat blood or are depressed.

I would agree that sleeping 26 hours a day is not normal - or possible! 😉