regentrude Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, JessP said: I deeply apologize if I misjudged on what you were needing. No apologies needed, Jess 🙂 It was fascinating to read that simple social interactions are so difficult for some people. (Introversion alone is not an explanation for that; I am surrounded by socially adept introverts in my family and at work, who have no difficulties interacting when they choose to) I know that most the friends I am referring to do not share the difficulties you describe. Many of them are exuberant extroverts. (Whereas the two friend who ever initiate contact and check are strong introverts. Go figure) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, JessP said: I appreciate your insight into how their minds may work! From my perspective it feels like texting is what removes any choice they have (it obligates them to text me back). but it does not obligate them to do so on a timeline. They do not need to interrupt family dinner. They have the agency to switch off notifications altogether and check their texts at a time that is convenient for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessP Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 17 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said: If you are going to quote me please do me the courtesy of actually quoting me. And please don’t associate me with a pseudoscience, pseudo religion “system “ like enneagrams. I was new to this forum and didn't know how to quote more than one person. I did not try to associate you with anything. And it was not about you personally, as I stated that everyone feels that way. I was saying that I share a desire you have, but that it looks different for me. I apologize if I offended you. I did not claim that the enneagram is science, and I do not worship it. It is a tool that can be very helpful for people who enjoy pursuing self-reflection. Ever since I was a child I have often done a lot of research into varying personality theories. As well as psychology and mental health articles, books, and lectures. I seek out documentaries and speeches and autobiographical stories about people who have different personalities, experiences, and backgrounds from me. I am fascinated with the human mind and the many similarities and differences there can be between people. I have a thirst to understand people so that I can love them better. The enneagram concept is just one of many resources that are able to provide insight into how people think. I'm not saying it's gospel, I'm saying it provides insight. The things that I've learned through all my study have had an extremely positive effect on my character, my mental health, and my relationships. That is the reason I sometimes mention it to people. I wish those benefits for other people. The enneagram simply happens to be one of those many tools and is easy to quickly find information about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 2 hours ago, JessP said: I appreciate your insight into how their minds may work! From my perspective it feels like texting is what removes any choice they have (it obligates them to text me back). The consequences do matter to me, so I can't disregard them so easily. But I have certainly gotten a lot to consider and digest to help me further improve my interactions with my friends. For me the difficulty is trying to determine which friends may feel as you do about it, and which feel as I do. So who is okay with getting bombarded 😂 I usually base it on whether they have a lot of family things going on, and whether I'm a primary or fringe relationship for them Nah. Manners dictate they ought to text you back, but it's their responsibility to choose whether to use their manners or not. This is a boundaries thing. Sure, you should be polite to your friends, I mean, you're probably friends with them because they are people you feel like being polite to. But you're taking wayyyyy too much responsibility for other people's boundaries. I've got a friend who can't be friends with me at the moment because they are so afraid of annoying me, even though the only really annoying thing they do is try to protect me from being annoyed by them. It'd be much nicer for both of us if we could be friends again and be as annoyed and annoying as we feel like being. Being unable to be friends with my friend because they're so fond of me is one of the stupidest things that has ever happened to me, and that's saying something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessP Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 42 minutes ago, regentrude said: No apologies needed, Jess 🙂 It was fascinating to read that simple social interactions are so difficult for some people. (Introversion alone is not an explanation for that; I am surrounded by socially adept introverts in my family and at work, who have no difficulties interacting when they choose to) I know that most the friends I am referring to do not share the difficulties you describe. Many of them are exuberant extroverts. (Whereas the two friend who ever initiate contact and check are strong introverts. Go figure) I'm happy for your introvert friends! Some certainly struggle with it less than others, and I'm a bit jealous of them 😉 Since introversion means social interaction drains one's energy, the ability to do it is highly affected how much energy you have available. Major life stressors leave little energy for anything other than survival. It was very enlightening to see perspectives in this thread of real friends being the ones who keep up contact even when they're busy/stressed. My perspective has always been that a real friendship is one that will not be affected by extended periods without contact. I'm grateful to have my eyes opened to an opposite perspective. I'm pondering how I can use this information to "rekindle" a friendship that weakened while I went through major trauma. And yes, years of abuse has definitely increased my relational anxiety in general, although it was always there. But my texting concerns have also been reinforced along the way but various people (actually some comments in this thread initially felt like confirmation that people probably DO get upset by me not texting enough. But then I moved past that initial reaction into information acquisition mode). PS just to clarify, the examples (like crying) I gave don't occur with every single text! Just a combination of the more stressful days and the more high-pressure relationships. So, yes. Trauma plays a part, but personality still underlies it. Over the past 2 years I've come a LONG way with mental health. But the texting struggle won't ever fully disappear, and I've come to accept that. I strive for continual self-improvement, but at the same time have to determine which things are genuine character flaws, and which are just personality traits. I stopped trying to force myself into an extrovert mold and started working on devising ways of leveraging my strengths to mitigate my weaknesses. Leaving my husband helped my healing of course, and to be honest, so did quarantine. Let me tell you....that was the most relaxed I've ever been in my life! I felt sad for extroverts, but at the same time, they only had to experience that for a couple months. I experience the introvert equivalent every day EXCEPT that shutdown. For the first time in my life, I was not expected by society to perform as an extrovert. For 6 weeks out of my 30 years. Huge eye opener! I always assumed extroverts were naturally more energetic and light hearted than me. But...it has a really powerful effect on your mental health when your natural traits fit the culture you live in. For those 6 weeks, my personality became an asset, rather than an obstacle to overcome. I hold tight to the memory of that feeling, because I don't think I'll ever get to experience it again. It helped me accept that my introversion is not "lesser", I just live in a society that idealizes the traits I don't have. During that time, I did check in a lot more than normal on my extrovert friends. Because I realized that the world had been flipped to where for the first time, I was the one with the "upper hand" in terms of mental health. I didn't feel like I was burdening them, because I was no longer the "needy" one. I was also SO energized by being in shutdown (despite still working full-time from home) that I actually had the emotional and mental energy to text! I easily increased my productivity at work, finally got projects done in my apartment, and put lots of time and effort into healing my trauma (I progressed by leaps and bounds during that time). And I still had energy left to text multiple people in the same day! It was like nothing I've ever experienced. Come to think of it, I wonder if this could factor in to who has checked on with you. At least if it's more recent? Regardless, I am sorry that you've been hurt by people's actions (or lack thereof) and I hope that it improves for you. I'm glad you have the 2 that are still keeping up contact! ((Hugs)) Not gonna lie, my body was shaking uncontrollably for about an hour (PTSD response) after reading a couple responses to me at first. But I thank you for your gentle response and a chance to share and learn different perspectives. I wish you the best 💜 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said: I've got a friend who can't be friends with me at the moment because they are so afraid of annoying me, even though the only really annoying thing they do is try to protect me from being annoyed by them. It'd be much nicer for both of us if we could be friends again and be as annoyed and annoying as we feel like being. Being unable to be friends with my friend because they're so fond of me is one of the stupidest things that has ever happened to me, and that's saying something! Hah! That sounds frustrating. Also, a tad hard to parse 😉 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 On 10/20/2020 at 9:54 AM, regentrude said: I more and more come to feel this way. But that also means the realization that I don't have any real friends to whom I am important. And that realization seriously sucks. Well you have us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Scarlett said: Well you have us. I love my online communities, and I’m an introvert unlike @regentrude, but I have to say, online friends meet a different need for me than real life ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said: I love my online communities, and I’m an introvert unlike @regentrude, but I have to say, online friends meet a different need for me than real life ones. I agree, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 It’s hard to tell if I am an introvert or not since my chronic illness means that I am limited in stamina anyway. But I am perfectly capable of setting aside time to connect with friends. Using tech it doesn’t even have to be very much time. My friends are a priority. Not my only priority but enough of one for me to be deliberate in how I reach out. Which reminds me, I have a letter from a friend that I need to reply to. She’s rare in writing letters but I appreciate all sorts of ways to keep in touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 On 10/29/2020 at 8:38 PM, Not_a_Number said: That was also my experience in Minneapolis. We were there for 4 months, so we were already temporary... and it was REALLY hard to even find people to chat to. People's social circles seemed very complete. We lived in St Paul for one year and many people who did not grow up there found it hard to find friends because so many people had both extended family and old friends there already. One person I knew who had been there for a few years after her husband’s bank transferred him from NYC said it was so much easier to make friends and also establish a circle of regular contacts at local neighborhood businesses in NYC, compared to the Twin Cities. My 82 year old mom in the rural Midwest has so, so many close friends it never ceases to amaze me. And that’s despite several having already passed away. She still has friends from nursing school and from the first town she lived in when she married. She has known most of her friends for 50-60 years. She moved into a senior apartment in a nearby city just before the pandemic started. And despite all of the restrictions on activities, she has already made several new friends. I definitely didn’t inherit her social gene. But I truly think it is what has sustained her through a lifetime of extremely serious health issues. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 4 hours ago, JessP said: I'm happy for your introvert friends! Some certainly struggle with it less than others, and I'm a bit jealous of them 😉 Since introversion means social interaction drains one's energy, the ability to do it is highly affected how much energy you have available. Major life stressors leave little energy for anything other than survival. It was very enlightening to see perspectives in this thread of real friends being the ones who keep up contact even when they're busy/stressed. My perspective has always been that a real friendship is one that will not be affected by extended periods without contact. I'm grateful to have my eyes opened to an opposite perspective. I'm pondering how I can use this information to "rekindle" a friendship that weakened while I went through major trauma. And yes, years of abuse has definitely increased my relational anxiety in general, although it was always there. But my texting concerns have also been reinforced along the way but various people (actually some comments in this thread initially felt like confirmation that people probably DO get upset by me not texting enough. But then I moved past that initial reaction into information acquisition mode). PS just to clarify, the examples (like crying) I gave don't occur with every single text! Just a combination of the more stressful days and the more high-pressure relationships. So, yes. Trauma plays a part, but personality still underlies it. Over the past 2 years I've come a LONG way with mental health. But the texting struggle won't ever fully disappear, and I've come to accept that. I strive for continual self-improvement, but at the same time have to determine which things are genuine character flaws, and which are just personality traits. I stopped trying to force myself into an extrovert mold and started working on devising ways of leveraging my strengths to mitigate my weaknesses. Leaving my husband helped my healing of course, and to be honest, so did quarantine. Let me tell you....that was the most relaxed I've ever been in my life! I felt sad for extroverts, but at the same time, they only had to experience that for a couple months. I experience the introvert equivalent every day EXCEPT that shutdown. For the first time in my life, I was not expected by society to perform as an extrovert. For 6 weeks out of my 30 years. Huge eye opener! I always assumed extroverts were naturally more energetic and light hearted than me. But...it has a really powerful effect on your mental health when your natural traits fit the culture you live in. For those 6 weeks, my personality became an asset, rather than an obstacle to overcome. I hold tight to the memory of that feeling, because I don't think I'll ever get to experience it again. It helped me accept that my introversion is not "lesser", I just live in a society that idealizes the traits I don't have. During that time, I did check in a lot more than normal on my extrovert friends. Because I realized that the world had been flipped to where for the first time, I was the one with the "upper hand" in terms of mental health. I didn't feel like I was burdening them, because I was no longer the "needy" one. I was also SO energized by being in shutdown (despite still working full-time from home) that I actually had the emotional and mental energy to text! I easily increased my productivity at work, finally got projects done in my apartment, and put lots of time and effort into healing my trauma (I progressed by leaps and bounds during that time). And I still had energy left to text multiple people in the same day! It was like nothing I've ever experienced. Come to think of it, I wonder if this could factor in to who has checked on with you. At least if it's more recent? Regardless, I am sorry that you've been hurt by people's actions (or lack thereof) and I hope that it improves for you. I'm glad you have the 2 that are still keeping up contact! ((Hugs)) Not gonna lie, my body was shaking uncontrollably for about an hour (PTSD response) after reading a couple responses to me at first. But I thank you for your gentle response and a chance to share and learn different perspectives. I wish you the best 💜 I think there’s also a difference between introversion and social anxiety. Social anxiety can make you feel like an introvert when you might not be with effective treatment. I have to admit I relate to your thoughts about lockdown in the short term being really good for my peace of mind. I had literally been longing from a bit of space from all the out of house commitments and it definitely felt like a bit of a blessing although of course many other aspects really weren’t. The one of my kids who is most extroverted really felt it though and started having a lot of anxiety. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said: I think there’s also a difference between introversion and social anxiety. Social anxiety can make you feel like an introvert when you might not be with effective treatment. This. Introversion and social anxiety are two completely different things. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klmama Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 On 10/31/2020 at 1:05 AM, Ausmumof3 said: Social anxiety can make you feel like an introvert when you might not be with effective treatment. What kind of treatment is used for social anxiety? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, klmama said: What kind of treatment is used for social anxiety? I think CBT and anxiety reducing medications although I haven’t used it myself. Also breathing/yoga techniques can help. One thing personally I’ve noticed which is not at all scientific is I tend to neglect physical needs in social settings. Just noticing if you need to eat, drink, go to the bathroom, get a breath of fresh air and dealing with that can help with making things less exhausting. And trying to get back inside yourself so that you’re yourself looking out at your surroundings not outside of yourself watching all the things you do wrong kind of thing. Since the pandemic I’ve noticed when I’m breathing in other people’s air and I realised even pre pandemic I tend to breathe a lot more shallowly in a crowded room. That doesn’t help. Edited November 12, 2020 by Ausmumof3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klmama Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Thank you for explaining. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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