When you're always the only one

[Kassia]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

. I stopped,  because obviously nobody thought me worth it to take the time to respond.

 

Maybe they appreciated your efforts, but it's just not something they do.  Many people don't enjoy (or take the time to) write, but they do appreciate the letters they receive.  Like you, I used to send many hand-written cards and letters, but hardly anyone reciprocated.  I didn't take it personally because I realized that many people have good intentions, but writing isn't something they make the time to do.  

 

 

13 minutes ago, regentrude said:

 

I don't believe that my friends are all more depressed than I am and can't muster the energy to message or text.

What good is "caring" if the other person never notices?

I hope they do notice and appreciate your efforts and feel better from them.  People handle depression in different ways, though.  Your way of reaching out to have contact might be the total opposite of your friends who maybe don't have the mental energy to do so at this time.  

In any case, I am very sorry that you are feeling hurt and unappreciated.  I know how that feels and it is hard to think about friends that way.  Big hugs to you.  I've always thought highly of you as a caring professor and now I see that you are also a very giving friend.  

 

[regentrude]

31 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Maybe they appreciated your efforts, but it's just not something they do.  Many people don't enjoy (or take the time to) write, but they do appreciate the letters they receive.  Like you, I used to send many hand-written cards and letters, but hardly anyone reciprocated.  I didn't take it personally because I realized that many people have good intentions, but writing isn't something they make the time to do.  

Then they could call, email, text, fb message - anything. Really, I think it's a lame excuse "I care about you, but writing isn't my thing, so I'll just let you write to me for ten years without ever saying a peep back". That f*ing hurts. How do these people show others they give a damn?

Edited October 21, 2020 by regentrude

[Kassia]

11 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Then they could call, email, text, fb message - anything. Really, I think it's a lame excuse "I care about you, but writing isn't my thing, so I'll just let you write to me for ten years without ever saying a peep back". That f*ing hurts. How do these people show others they give a damn?

Maybe it's like love languages?  Where people express themselves in different ways?  I don't know...   What would concern me is their lack of support for the situation with your dad.  I've had that happen with my friends with other situations in the past and the lack of care or concern really hurt me.  

But what I really want you to know is that I care that you have been hurt and wish it wasn't that way.  It seems like you are a good and caring person and deserve to have that acknowledged and reciprocated.  ❤️

[Jean in Newcastle]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Then they could call, email, text, fb message - anything. Really, I think it's a lame excuse "I care about you, but writing isn't my thing, so I'll just let you write to me for ten years without ever saying a peep back". That f*ing hurts. How DO these people show others they give a damn?

I have wondered if there is a cultural element. All of my friends who have grown up overseas (even when not the same country I grew up in) share the same reciprocal attitude that I do about friendship. Friends act more like family members overseas. But this is just a general observation of mine and I am sure that many could come up with exceptions to that. 

[itsheresomewhere]

14 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Then they could call, email, text, fb message - anything. Really, I think it's a lame excuse "I care about you, but writing isn't my thing, so I'll just let you write to me for ten years without ever saying a peep back". That f*ing hurts. How do these people show others they give a damn?

When you figure this out, please tell me.  It is like no one wants to put any effort into it unless you are right in front of them.  

Edited October 21, 2020 by itsheresomewhere

[Sunshine State Sue]

1 hour ago, Patty Joanna said:

There's a lot of depression, sadness, loneliness (which, ironically, pulls people into their shells).

I have 1 friend who I've known for 30+ years who keeps in touch with me just as much as I keep in touch with her.  We haven't lived near each other in 25+ years.  She lives in Australia now.  I live in the US.  Some years, she would write at Christmas, and I would write back, and that would be it for the year.  Her mom winters in south Florida and I would drive down for the weekend if she was ever visiting. For dh and I 25th anniversary, we visited Australia and stayed with her and her husband for a week. 

Since the pandemic started, we began skype'ing every 3 weeks.  It's been nice.  She says (and I agree) that one way to battle depression, sadness, loneliness is to "tend and befriend".  I know so few people who do that.

((Regentrude)) I'm sorry you are hurting.  I sometimes feel the same way.  I may PM you.  My username makes me more visible than I like these days, but I haven't come up with a clever replacement yet.  ((Hugs)) to you.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Sue in St Pete

[EmilyGF]

30 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I have wondered if there is a cultural element. All of my friends who have grown up overseas (even when not the same country I grew up in) share the same reciprocal attitude that I do about friendship. Friends act more like family members overseas. But this is just a general observation of mine and I am sure that many could come up with exceptions to that. 

I felt more community and inclusion in 3 months in Israel than I've felt in 8 years in my city in the USA. And I'm not even Jewish. I never understood why an American Jew would immigrate to Israel before my time there. Now it is clear as day to me. 

After I got home from Israel and dealt with some borderline depression, I did a lot of reading on this. I just feel like relationships are so broken in the USA.

@regentrudeI remember that I was warned during my year near Chemnitz that German friendships were like a secret garden; you're locked out until you are in and then it is beautiful, whereas American friendliness is all show, no substance. So, Americans seem nice but aren't deeply friends, whereas Germans seem cold but aren't, if you spend enough time with them. Or, what about that phrase I was taught at the time, "If you have more than three friends, you don't have any?"

If this is too bitter, I can delete later.

Emily

[Rosie_0801]

I've got a friend who thinks they're doing me a favour by not speaking to me. 

I got fed up with that recently and sent them a card with a friendly warning:

"Hades is a rubbish place to live.
You’ve been down there too long and if you won’t come back up I’m going to come down and throw rocks in the Styx to frighten away the fish."

They haven't come back up, so I've been sending a card or two a week containing irritating messages. One of us will relent eventually, lol.

[Jaybee]

I'm sorry, Regentrude. This is such a weird time. For myself, I find I feel much more exhausted than usual, due to all issues Covid, plus other things going on, and I don't have much left.  I'm so sorry you feel alone in these days. It may be that some in your circles are feeling similar to me. 

[Ausmumof3]

I haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said already.  But I’m pretty much the opposite and it doesn’t mean I don’t care or love friends.  It’s just that life itself seems kind of overwhelming to me and organising something gives me crazy level social anxiety.  However I’m going to take this as a prod to try to up that to at least something.  I do really love when my extrovert friends organise stuff though.

[regentrude]

8 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

  It’s just that life itself seems kind of overwhelming to me and organising something gives me crazy level social anxiety.  However I’m going to take this as a prod to try to up that to at least something.  I do really love when my extrovert friends organise stuff though.

I am not talking about "organizing" anything. 
I'd just like someone to simply text or a message and ask "how are you?" That.is.all. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by regentrude

[Ausmumof3]

The other weird thing that goes on for me as introvert/extrovert thing is i will be just hitting that point of - I should message that person and organise something.  Then it will take me a week to do it.  And almost everything they will message first.  I think it’s a pacing thing.  Like I’d be happy with a once a month or six week catch up whereas they are on a three week schedule ... then I feel guilty every time because they always initiate!

I know you aren’t Christian so that’s not really helpful but I think that’s one benefit to the “assemble yourselves once a week” philosophy.  It makes it much more easy to keep touch and to see and know who might be ill or in need of some extra love.  It’s not perfect but it’s something.  And no one has to figure out where or when or how because it’s just there on your calendar week in week out.  I don’t know if there’s some way to replicate that without the religious aspect. Maybe book clubs or something.  I know for me anything that’s scheduled at a regular time and interval is much easier than organising one off events.

[Amy Gen]

I confess that I’m the friend who does t initiate contact. I start to, but then think, “Maybe they just sat down to dinner” or “Maybe this is there only moment for self care. I don’t want to interrupt that!”
 

But today, I texted 2 of my friends to say, “ I’m thinking of you.  I love you and am so thankful to have you in my life. Also, you have a standing invitation to come to my house any time. It will be dirty, and full of dog hair, but we will make you laugh.” 
 

So thank you for this thread reminding me to reach out to the people I love. 

[wintermom]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

For years, I sent 40 handwritten letters at Christmas. Got maybe 2 cards back. I stopped,  because obviously nobody thought me worth it to take the time to respond. I tried keeping the connection to my friends back home, but only two people remain. I used to have a wide correspondence; as a teen, I sent  350+ pieces of mail each year. But it really gets old.

 

I think I was up to 80 hand-made Christmas cards for a few years, and I sent tons of long letters when I was living in Norway. They were great at the time, but I did them for ME just as much for the people I wrote to. I wanted to keep the connection. 

If you enjoy being around people, then keep sending the invites. Perhaps you can seek out some people who are on their own and have the time and motivation to pour into relationships. International students at your college might be a good place to start. You know what it's like to be living thousands of miles from 'home' and trying to fit into a different culture.

Edited October 21, 2020 by wintermom

[lovinmyboys]

I’m sorry. That sucks.

From watching my mom (this is my observation, so I may be wrong), it seemed like she would always be the one reaching out. She would do it for some time, then either burnout or feel like people didn’t care. She would take a break, spend some time feeling bad/lonely, then she would start reaching out again. It has cycled like that my whole life. I don’t know that anyone has ever initiated anything with her, at least not regularly. But she seems to always decide that reaching out is better than not, even if no one reciprocates.

I don’t currently have any real friends locally. We have moved several times and it has always been fine, but this place has just been hard for me. It is very lonely. 

I would love to be your friend. You are such an interesting and caring person. 

Your friends probably don’t know you feel that way. I think if they knew, they would do better. I think people often just default to doing what is easy. It isn’t right, but I think people get lazy or anxious (what if I say the wrong thing).

[EmilyGF]

17 minutes ago, Amy Gen said:

I confess that I’m the friend who does t initiate contact. I start to, but then think, “Maybe they just sat down to dinner” or “Maybe this is there only moment for self care. I don’t want to interrupt that!”
 

But today, I texted 2 of my friends to say, “ I’m thinking of you.  I love you and am so thankful to have you in my life. Also, you have a standing invitation to come to my house any time. It will be dirty, and full of dog hair, but we will make you laugh.” 
 

So thank you for this thread reminding me to reach out to the people I love. 

That's me, too. And I also have sent a number of emails today to get back in touch. Thanks for the reminder.

[Shoeless]

12 hours ago, regentrude said:

to make an effort to connect and to keep social interactions going, it's exhausting and depressing.

I am the one who texts friends to check in on them. I am the one who invites folks for safe distanced outdoor socializing.
Since the beginning of the pandemic, I have been the one who initiated almost all of my social interactions.
It is disheartening to feel like nobody cares.
 

 

I care! ❤️ 

[Ausmumof3]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

I am not talking about "organizing" anything. 
I'd just like someone to simply text or a message and ask "how are you?" That.is.all. 

Oh yeah I see.  That’s disappointing.  And add me to the thanks for the reminder.  I sent a few messages today.  So many people struggling with stuff right now.  And sometimes the ones that ask and talk the most aren’t the ones that need it the most.  

[Ausmumof3]

11 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

It sure does.  And I am coming to that realization too.  

I really hope that’s not true for you both.  I was definitely feeling like this toward the end of our lockdown and yet when we finally got together everyone seemed to be feeling the same way.  I am sure your real life friends do care and appreciate you guys even if they’re doing a really crappy job of showing it right now.

Im also wondering regentrude if you are still writing poetry.  I remember the poem you shared here earlier in the pandemic about sorrow/griefs not being weighed or measured against each other.  It was so timely.

[regentrude]

58 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Im also wondering regentrude if you are still writing poetry.  

Barely. I have hardly been able to write anything since March.
It's a combination of never getting closure for my book that came out just before the lockdown, the disappearance of all reading opportunities (which always energized and inspired me), and the general feeling that I have nothing to say. Plus the realization that the necessary introspection isn't doing my mental health any good at this time. 
It sucks. What's a writer who isn't writing?

Edited October 21, 2020 by regentrude

[Ausmumof3]

22 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Barely. I have hardly been able to write anything since March.
It's a combination of never getting closure for my book that came out just before the lockdown, the disappearance of all reading opportunities (which always energized and inspired me), and the general feeling that I have nothing to say. Plus the realization that the necessary introspection isn't doing my mental health any good at this time. 
It sucks. What's a writer who isn't writing?

When you say readings do you mean like public reading/performance?  That’s a pretty cool thing and I can imagine you miss it.  And yep!  I hear you on the introspection thing that is part of why I don’t write much now.  (The other part is that having kids seems to have destroyed that part of my brain!)

[Ausmumof3]

Sorry side track from the thread title but have you ever written poetry around physics etc?  I think that’s your main career right?  I have seen some interesting science poetry and art even though they seem like things that don’t really intersect.  I’d love to try that but I don’t have the skill set.

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

When you say readings do you mean like public reading/performance?  That’s a pretty cool thing and I can imagine you miss it.  And yep!  I hear you on the introspection thing that is part of why I don’t write much now.  (The other part is that having kids seems to have destroyed that part of my brain!)

Yes, public performances. I love reading for an audience.
My major plans for 2020 included a book tour and a new series of poetry events I had started at a nice local venue. It had just taken off with a great audience reception (which was super cool for this small town) - and now it is dead and won't be revived. Because you can't perform poetry in a huge venue with 6 ft between people; it needs the intimacy of a small space.

Edited October 21, 2020 by regentrude

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Sorry side track from the thread title but have you ever written poetry around physics etc?  I think that’s your main career right?  I have seen some interesting science poetry and art even though they seem like things that don’t really intersect.  I’d love to try that but I don’t have the skill set.

Yes, I have a few physics related poems. They are more accidental; I don't specifically attempt to write science poetry.

[wintermom]

12 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

I felt more community and inclusion in 3 months in Israel than I've felt in 8 years in my city in the USA. And I'm not even Jewish. I never understood why an American Jew would immigrate to Israel before my time there. Now it is clear as day to me. 

After I got home from Israel and dealt with some borderline depression, I did a lot of reading on this. I just feel like relationships are so broken in the USA.

@regentrudeI remember that I was warned during my year near Chemnitz that German friendships were like a secret garden; you're locked out until you are in and then it is beautiful, whereas American friendliness is all show, no substance. So, Americans seem nice but aren't deeply friends, whereas Germans seem cold but aren't, if you spend enough time with them. Or, what about that phrase I was taught at the time, "If you have more than three friends, you don't have any?"

If this is too bitter, I can delete later.

Emily

I've heard and experienced a similar difference in friendship cultures in different parts of the world. I think part of it has to do with the geography and climate, trends of movement of people, sense of community culture, and how and where people spend their leisure time. North America is huge, has large homes, can get cold in the winter and we don't see each other outside much, people tend to move around, and people may not spend leisure time with others. Some do, but more and more, people tend to be turning inward to their own family, own screen, own physical space. 

My former neighbour from India had a completely different attitude about how to interact with neighbours, and to me it was quite lovely but bordered on extreme pushiness. 😉  She told me to walk up to people's doors and find out who they are, what they do and find out how they can socialize. I was impressed that this is exactly what she does. I would never do that. And of course I did not follow her suggestion. That is not the North American way. We talk to our neighbours and colleagues in passing and from a distance. We smile very brightly and look super friendly, but that's it. Leave me alone, is what we're secret thinking. 😄

Edited October 21, 2020 by wintermom

[KungFuPanda]

I wouldn’t judge anyone by how they entertain during the pandemic. If people aren’t good at hosting during normal times than pandemic hosting might seem hopelessly obstacle-laden. I tend to be the hostess in my group. I don’t have the neatest, nicest house, but I’m centrally located and everyone has already seen how we really live so I don’t have to clean up to have people over. I’m not even doing it now!  I can’t have people inside. It’s difficult to share food. I’m at the mercy of the weather. My spirit is too low to be the cheerleader. I don’t feel like good company right now so, in 7 months time I had ONE fire pit thing with a few people. Now I just feel guilty; like I need to plan something for the people who weren’t invited to that. I just can’t figure it out so I’m procrastinating. 
 

I figure if I’m paralyzed with pandemic malaise when hosting was so easy for me than other people aren’t going to start NOW. I’m sure it would be good for everyone, but ugh.  I KNOW I need to rally and accept The New Normal for what it is, but I’m just not there yet. Also, if I have one more conversation about the virus or the election I may throw up. 

[Ditto]

18 hours ago, regentrude said:

Then they could call, email, text, fb message - anything. Really, I think it's a lame excuse "I care about you, but writing isn't my thing, so I'll just let you write to me for ten years without ever saying a peep back". That f*ing hurts. How do these people show others they give a damn?

I am with you on this.  You are right in my opinion.

[Ditto]

@regentrude.   I am sorry you are being treated this way.  I have been feeling the same way.....I honestly feel like no one cares about me.  It is an awful feeling and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.   The people that constantly make you initiate contact aren't real friends.  That is a painful realization to come to. 

[regentrude]

17 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I wouldn’t judge anyone by how they entertain during the pandemic.

I completely agree. As I said repeatedly, it's not about entertaining. It is about a gesture - text or message - that shows somebody cares whether I am alive. 
How hard is it to text "I'm heading for my walk, wanna come?"

Edited October 21, 2020 by regentrude

[KungFuPanda]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I completely agree. As I said repeatedly, it's not about hosting. It is about a gesture - text or message - that shows somebody cares whether I am alive.

Yo! Give me your number. I will text you. I’m that friend who thinks she’s hysterical. You’ll get this in one day:

—————————

Whatcha doin?

::food photo::

::mom meme::

My husband did (this annoying thing) 

(commiserates with whatever your husband did)

(drools over whatever you cooked) 

(encourages you to do that thing you’re just thinking about doing)

—————————-

Then I’ll leave you alone and do it again in 4-6 days! #becarefulwhatyouwishfor #imnotevenkidding

[cintinative]

29 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Yo! Give me your number. I will text you. I’m that friend who thinks she’s hysterical. You’ll get this in one day:

—————————

Whatcha doin?

::food photo::

::mom meme::

My husband did (this annoying thing) 

(commiserates with whatever your husband did)

(drools over whatever you cooked) 

(encourages you to do that thing you’re just thinking about doing)

—————————-

Then I’ll leave you alone and do it again in 4-6 days! #becarefulwhatyouwishfor #imnotevenkidding

I don't know. Refreshing bits of real life with comedy built in? I say, sign me up!  😃  

[Jaybee]

8 hours ago, fifiruth said:

There really isn’t an excuse to not keep in touch. 

My DH and I talk about this every so often because it is so hurtful and disappointing. We have come to the reluctant conclusion that the fast majority of our friends are only “close” in the context of the group and when we’re right there in front of them.  School friends are friends....at school; church friends are friends...at church; work friends are friends...at work; neighbors are friends...when we’re outside doing yardwork; Boy scout moms were my friends....until our sons aged out of the program; local homeschool moms where my people...until mine graduated; Bible study friends...until we could no longer meet. 

It’s disheartening, but it provides some level of necessary social connection so I try not to give up. The few friends that actually make an effort are appreciated!  I try to be a two-way friend, too. 

My mom had a group of friends for over 40 years until she passed away. The others kept in touch until the last ones died in their 90’s. That was my gold standard, and for decades I tried to develop my own group of friends like that but it never happened, so I gave up on the idea. Hence my new acceptance of the realization that friends are usually friends only when it’s convenient...and when I do the listening and they get to do all of the talking.

I think there has been a cultural shift between generations. My mom had friends for years as well. She had to move a couple of years ago, but she and her best friend (both in their 90s) still talk on the phone occasionally. My generation has had careers, moves, and so on, that have made it more difficult to keep up those long-term relationships. People are busy, tired, and thus the friendships that are related to the group thing have dominated. It's a sad shift, imo.

[J-rap]

I'm sorry regentrude.  😞  I'll bet people really DO care, but I also think that people can become complacent in their own little world.  I don't know if this is more common in the US, or what, but I do think it's more common in certain areas.  If you live in a community where people have settled and lived for a long time, I think they often tend to take the easier path and stick with their routine and interact with what's in front of them.  It seems like it takes almost a higher level of awareness to reach out to what's beyond your everyday bubble, even to keep in touch with good friends (I mean, when you're no longer in their everyday bubble).   

I think if you've traveled a lot, or had experiences where you've lived in a different area (even short-term) with other people who are also strangers to the area, then you tend to become more aware of relying on and reaching out to people.  I think it can cause you to value friendships differently (in a good way), and that it carries over to how you view friendships wherever you end up living.

And, I think some people are just natural leaders and initiators, and most people aren't.  

At least, that's been my experience.  

That doesn't necessarily make it easier...  It's too bad we don't all live near each other and we could start a weekly meet-up!  My dh just moved to a new city 6 months before the pandemic, and I've been dying to make new friends.

 

 

[JessP]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:14 AM, regentrude said:

to make an effort to connect and to keep social interactions going, it's exhausting and depressing.

I am the one who texts friends to check in on them. I am the one who invites folks for safe distanced outdoor socializing.
Since the beginning of the pandemic, I have been the one who initiated almost all of my social interactions.
It is disheartening to feel like nobody cares.
 

 

Personality type, anxiety, and levels of life craziness.

 

I'm mainly going to address the first one here, because of length, and I kind of have a perspective from the other side.

 

Have you done the enneagram personality test? I find it to be extremely insightful and highly recommend it!! It has helped me understand myself and other people much better.

 

Certain enneagram types (1, 2, 3, 7, 😎the face was supposed to be 8 and I can't delete it) are more likely to initiate social contact. Types 1, 2, and maybe 3 are the most likely to be frustrated about that. Especially 2's: in fact, this frustration is one of the defining characteristics of the type 2 personality. Types 4, 5, 6, and 9 are much less likely to initiate, unless it's with another 4, 5, 6, or 9.

 

I'm a 6 (strong 5 wing) and initiating social contact does NOT come naturally to me. It's not because I don't care. It's because I don't want to burden anyone with my presence. I often feel like they're spending time with me only out of obligation.

 

Certain personality types are also more naturally organized and self-motivated. Making social plans is something they are good at and even enjoy. Certain people are more natural leaders. Other types struggle with it. It doesn't necessarily mean we don't care. It means we aren't good at it.

My mom always makes the plans for everything, so I tried to do it once. It was something really simple (meeting at the zoo), yet it took so much energy for me. I love planning logistical things, but I really struggle with the social aspect (how do I know what will be most enjoyable to someone else? What if they'd rather spend the time doing something else but feel obligated to say yes?). 

 

I wonder daily how my friends are doing, hope they're okay, and wish I could pour into their lives somehow. I often type up a text message providing heartfelt encouragement, and asking how they're doing and if it would be helpful for them if I did X. I often spend hours writing and re-writing these texts.

And then, I don't send them. I figure they're probably with their family, enjoying dinner. I don't want to interrupt. They're probably having a great day, and being reminded of me would bring them down. Then when they text me a couple days later, I see my unsent draft and feel guilty because I never reached out. I know they probably see me as a leach. I think about their well-being all the time and if they told me they needed something, I would be willing to intantly drop my life to help them out. But I don't know how to initiate. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to get through to them. I wish I did. 

When I do go out of my comfort zone and actually send the messages I drafted, it almost always feels like I get shut down. I tell someone I really care about them and I noticed they've been stressed lately, and I'm here if they need to talk. They say something like "Oh thanks, I'm doing fine! What's going on with you?" That tells me that they don't need me. If I'm extraneous in their life, I may gradually distance myself to avoid burdening them. Saying "I appreciate it" doesn't mean they really do, it's just a cookie cutter phrase. What would be so amazing is something like "You're really insightful. I actually have been super stressed because of XYZ."

 

A previous poster mentioned only wanting reciprocal friendships. I think every person feels that way! However, people may define it differently. 

For me, a reciprocal friendship is not one where both people initiate social contact equally. It's one where both people are willing to show weakness and be emotionally vulnerable.

1, 2, 3, 7, 8: More likely to initiate contact

4, 5, 6, 9: More likely to be emotionally open (This is also a big reason we're more likely to initiate with each other---there's less guesswork involved, which requires less of our limited energy)

 

If some of these people you're struggling with are one of the relatively laid back types (as in, they enjoy staring into space, lost in thought, for hours on end), maybe you could just straight-up tell them how you're feeling? Depending on how close you are you could word it differently. 

"Hey, I have something I want your genuine thoughts on. I really value your friendship, but sometimes I feel like I'm always the one pushing you into it. I'm usually the one to initiate contact. I want to have a strong relationship with you, but sometimes I'm not sure if that's what you want too. It would make me feel really special if occasionally you were the one to contact me first."

"Hey, can I just be really open for a minute? I really value your friendship, but sometimes I can feel disheartened because I'm usually the one who initiates things. Would you mind maybe texting me first every now and then? That would really make my day."

And if they do ever initiate contact, don't brush it off. Engage. Deeply. 

 

They may not realize the dynamic is even there. Or they may care very deeply about you and be desperately wanting to provide what you need, but don't actually know what that is. The good thing is that the personality types least likely to initiate tend to also be pretty open to receiving constructive criticism. You just want to frame it as "I feel X because of things within myself, and it would be make me feel so loved if you could do Y". Rather than "who you are sucks, and you should strive to be more like me". I'm not saying you would do that 😂 I'm just saying that we have that feeling a lot, because our traits are seen as inferior in mainstream Western culture. 

So open communication is key!

But at the same time, please keep in mind that we are different, and things like that take more effort for us than for you. I'm absolutely willing to do it if  I know it benefits someone (but if there's no indicator it makes any difference to them, why waste SO MUCH energy on it?) But regardless of how willing I am, I'm still not gifted at it. If I'm expected to do it on the same level as someone who's naturally good at it, I will always fall short. It's not healthy or sustainable trying to be someone I'm not. There are other strengths I bring to the table instead. 

 

TL;DR: They may care about you very deeply but not know how to show it in the way that's meaningful to you.

 

[JessP]

On 10/21/2020 at 2:59 PM, regentrude said:

I completely agree. As I said repeatedly, it's not about entertaining. It is about a gesture - text or message - that shows somebody cares whether I am alive. 
How hard is it to text "I'm heading for my walk, wanna come?"

You may actually be surprised at how hard it can really be for some people. For me it's extremely difficult. I may cry, I may have an anxiety attack, I may type it and delete it 20 times, I may spend 2 days trying to decide whether to impose on them by asking... and by then they've texted me anyway so it's too late.  And I know the person will see me as uncaring and thoughtless, because they have no idea that I've been thinking about them all week, and don't believe me if I tell them. That causes even more anxiety, which is a vicious cycle.

[regentrude]

6 hours ago, JessP said:

If some of these people you're struggling with are one of the relatively laid back types (as in, they enjoy staring into space, lost in thought, for hours on end), maybe you could just straight-up tell them how you're feeling? Depending on how close you are you could word it differently. 

"Hey, I have something I want your genuine thoughts on. I really value your friendship, but sometimes I feel like I'm always the one pushing you into it. I'm usually the one to initiate contact. I want to have a strong relationship with you, but sometimes I'm not sure if that's what you want too. It would make me feel really special if occasionally you were the one to contact me first."

"Hey, can I just be really open for a minute? I really value your friendship, but sometimes I can feel disheartened because I'm usually the one who initiates things. Would you mind maybe texting me first every now and then? That would really make my day."

I am sorry contacting your friends is difficult for you. Crying and anxiety attacks about  a text message seems to me a case for professional help, and not something one can expect one's friends to fix.

I am tired, so tired, of being the one to carry the friendships and to do all the heavy lifting. I give and give and give.  And when *I* for once am the one who struggles, I do not have the energy to explain to my friends how reciprocating human interactions work. I cannot be their therapist and teach them what they should be doing to be perceived as human beings who give a crap- I have no.more.spoons. 

Edited October 30, 2020 by regentrude

[HS Mom in NC]

On 10/21/2020 at 10:27 AM, wintermom said:

 She told me to walk up to people's doors and find out who they are, what they do and find out how they can socialize. I was impressed that this is exactly what she does. I would never do that. And of course I did not follow her suggestion. That is not the North American way. We talk to our neighbours and colleagues in passing and from a distance. We smile very brightly and look super friendly, but that's it. Leave me alone, is what we're secret thinking. 😄

The American part of North America (I don't know much about Canada and Mexico) is the land of rugged individualism, not stagnant traditionalism.  We're not animals enslaved to instincts, we're humans capable of thoughtful strategies to solving problems. Ya just gotta do whatcha gotta do. 

When I moved more than 20 miles from childhood home for the first time 2. 5 years ago, that's exactly what I did in spite of it being North America. I waited a week to see if any of the neighbors in the allegedly hospitable south I moved to would come knock and welcome me to the neighborhood.  Good thing I didn't hold my breath. It's far less hospitable than the past of the west I'm from. The neighbor kids (whose families are from the Midwest, now that I think of it) came to meet my daughter, but no adults came to meet us.  So when it didn't happen I decided to go knock on their doors and introduce myself and daughter to about 2 dozen households that answered their doors.  I chit chatted (I hate chit chat with people I know, imagine how it was with strangers) and a couple of months later sent out a flier asking for feedback about a neighborhood block party I coordinated. About 12 families showed up and we were off and running. Later another neighbor hosted another block party and it doubled in size. Then we invited people whose company we enjoyed to spend time with us in our homes.

I always chat with people walking their dogs on the street even though I'm an introvert and it doesn't come naturally.  When new people move in I give them a few days to settle, take a bouquet of flowers, and welcome them to the neighborhood.  I set up a neighborhood FB page and we have a few dozen participants.

[Rosie_0801]

7 hours ago, JessP said:

I'm a 6 (strong 5 wing) and initiating social contact does NOT come naturally to me. It's not because I don't care. It's because I don't want to burden anyone with my presence.

It's their responsibility to ignore you if they want to. If you ignore yourself for them, where they can't even see, you're taking away their right to choose and they don't even know it. Send the texts and to hell with the consequences! 

[fairfarmhand]

On 10/21/2020 at 4:21 PM, Jaybee said:

I think there has been a cultural shift between generations. My mom had friends for years as well. She had to move a couple of years ago, but she and her best friend (both in their 90s) still talk on the phone occasionally. My generation has had careers, moves, and so on, that have made it more difficult to keep up those long-term relationships. People are busy, tired, and thus the friendships that are related to the group thing have dominated. It's a sad shift, imo.

My Grandmother bought a house when she and my Granddad married. She lived there till she died. All the neighbors did the same so my Granddad was in a neighbrohood surrounded by people who knew one another very well. They all watched each others kids grow up.  He lived there till he moved to a nursing home. 

I don't know anyone who's lived like that.

2 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

The American part of North America (I don't know much about Canada and Mexico) is the land of rugged individualism, not stagnant traditionalism.  We're not animals enslaved to instincts, we're humans capable of thoughtful strategies to solving problems. Ya just gotta do whatcha gotta do. 

When I moved more than 20 miles from childhood home for the first time 2. 5 years ago, that's exactly what I did in spite of it being North America. I waited a week to see if any of the neighbors in the allegedly hospitable south I moved to would come knock and welcome me to the neighborhood.  Good thing I didn't hold my breath. It's far less hospitable than the past of the west I'm from. The neighbor kids (whose families are from the Midwest, now that I think of it) came to meet my daughter, but no adults came to meet us.  So when it didn't happen I decided to go knock on their doors and introduce myself and daughter to about 2 dozen households that answered their doors.  I chit chatted (I hate chit chat with people I know, imagine how it was with strangers) and a couple of months later sent out a flier asking for feedback about a neighborhood block party I coordinated. About 12 families showed up and we were off and running. Later another neighbor hosted another block party and it doubled in size. Then we invited people whose company we enjoyed to spend time with us in our homes.

I always chat with people walking their dogs on the street even though I'm an introvert and it doesn't come naturally.  When new people move in I give them a few days to settle, take a bouquet of flowers, and welcome them to the neighborhood.  I set up a neighborhood FB page and we have a few dozen participants.

The South...

Many many areas are populated with people who've lived in the same general area their whole life,. They see high school friends regularly and are tight with their sisters, brothers, cousins, parents and grandparents. So they don't have any holes to fill in their relationships. And it can be brutally hard to break into the circle.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

The South...

Many many areas are populated with people who've lived in the same general area their whole life,. They see high school friends regularly and are tight with their sisters, brothers, cousins, parents and grandparents. So they don't have any holes to fill in their relationships. And it can be brutally hard to break into the circle.

That was also my experience in Minneapolis. We were there for 4 months, so we were already temporary... and it was REALLY hard to even find people to chat to. People's social circles seemed very complete. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

10 hours ago, JessP said:

 

Personality type, anxiety, and levels of life craziness.

 

I'm mainly going to address the first one here, because of length, and I kind of have a perspective from the other side.

 

Have you done the enneagram personality test? I find it to be extremely insightful and highly recommend it!! It has helped me understand myself and other people much better.

 

Certain enneagram types (1, 2, 3, 7, 😎the face was supposed to be 8 and I can't delete it) are more likely to initiate social contact. Types 1, 2, and maybe 3 are the most likely to be frustrated about that. Especially 2's: in fact, this frustration is one of the defining characteristics of the type 2 personality. Types 4, 5, 6, and 9 are much less likely to initiate, unless it's with another 4, 5, 6, or 9.

 

I'm a 6 (strong 5 wing) and initiating social contact does NOT come naturally to me. It's not because I don't care. It's because I don't want to burden anyone with my presence. I often feel like they're spending time with me only out of obligation.

 

Certain personality types are also more naturally organized and self-motivated. Making social plans is something they are good at and even enjoy. Certain people are more natural leaders. Other types struggle with it. It doesn't necessarily mean we don't care. It means we aren't good at it.

My mom always makes the plans for everything, so I tried to do it once. It was something really simple (meeting at the zoo), yet it took so much energy for me. I love planning logistical things, but I really struggle with the social aspect (how do I know what will be most enjoyable to someone else? What if they'd rather spend the time doing something else but feel obligated to say yes?). 

 

I wonder daily how my friends are doing, hope they're okay, and wish I could pour into their lives somehow. I often type up a text message providing heartfelt encouragement, and asking how they're doing and if it would be helpful for them if I did X. I often spend hours writing and re-writing these texts.

And then, I don't send them. I figure they're probably with their family, enjoying dinner. I don't want to interrupt. They're probably having a great day, and being reminded of me would bring them down. Then when they text me a couple days later, I see my unsent draft and feel guilty because I never reached out. I know they probably see me as a leach. I think about their well-being all the time and if they told me they needed something, I would be willing to intantly drop my life to help them out. But I don't know how to initiate. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to get through to them. I wish I did. 

When I do go out of my comfort zone and actually send the messages I drafted, it almost always feels like I get shut down. I tell someone I really care about them and I noticed they've been stressed lately, and I'm here if they need to talk. They say something like "Oh thanks, I'm doing fine! What's going on with you?" That tells me that they don't need me. If I'm extraneous in their life, I may gradually distance myself to avoid burdening them. Saying "I appreciate it" doesn't mean they really do, it's just a cookie cutter phrase. What would be so amazing is something like "You're really insightful. I actually have been super stressed because of XYZ."

 

A previous poster mentioned only wanting reciprocal friendships. I think every person feels that way! However, people may define it differently. 

For me, a reciprocal friendship is not one where both people initiate social contact equally. It's one where both people are willing to show weakness and be emotionally vulnerable.

1, 2, 3, 7, 8: More likely to initiate contact

4, 5, 6, 9: More likely to be emotionally open (This is also a big reason we're more likely to initiate with each other---there's less guesswork involved, which requires less of our limited energy)

 

If some of these people you're struggling with are one of the relatively laid back types (as in, they enjoy staring into space, lost in thought, for hours on end), maybe you could just straight-up tell them how you're feeling? Depending on how close you are you could word it differently. 

"Hey, I have something I want your genuine thoughts on. I really value your friendship, but sometimes I feel like I'm always the one pushing you into it. I'm usually the one to initiate contact. I want to have a strong relationship with you, but sometimes I'm not sure if that's what you want too. It would make me feel really special if occasionally you were the one to contact me first."

"Hey, can I just be really open for a minute? I really value your friendship, but sometimes I can feel disheartened because I'm usually the one who initiates things. Would you mind maybe texting me first every now and then? That would really make my day."

And if they do ever initiate contact, don't brush it off. Engage. Deeply. 

 

They may not realize the dynamic is even there. Or they may care very deeply about you and be desperately wanting to provide what you need, but don't actually know what that is. The good thing is that the personality types least likely to initiate tend to also be pretty open to receiving constructive criticism. You just want to frame it as "I feel X because of things within myself, and it would be make me feel so loved if you could do Y". Rather than "who you are sucks, and you should strive to be more like me". I'm not saying you would do that 😂 I'm just saying that we have that feeling a lot, because our traits are seen as inferior in mainstream Western culture. 

So open communication is key!

But at the same time, please keep in mind that we are different, and things like that take more effort for us than for you. I'm absolutely willing to do it if  I know it benefits someone (but if there's no indicator it makes any difference to them, why waste SO MUCH energy on it?) But regardless of how willing I am, I'm still not gifted at it. If I'm expected to do it on the same level as someone who's naturally good at it, I will always fall short. It's not healthy or sustainable trying to be someone I'm not. There are other strengths I bring to the table instead. 

 

TL;DR: They may care about you very deeply but not know how to show it in the way that's meaningful to you.

 

If you are going to quote me please do me the courtesy of actually quoting me. And please don’t associate me with a pseudoscience, pseudo religion “system “ like enneagrams. 

[regentrude]

11 hours ago, JessP said:

When I do go out of my comfort zone and actually send the messages I drafted, it almost always feels like I get shut down. I tell someone I really care about them and I noticed they've been stressed lately, and I'm here if they need to talk. They say something like "Oh thanks, I'm doing fine! What's going on with you?" That tells me that they don't need me. If I'm extraneous in their life, I may gradually distance myself to avoid burdening them. Saying "I appreciate it" doesn't mean they really do, it's just a cookie cutter phrase. What would be so amazing is something like "You're really insightful. I actually have been super stressed because of XYZ."

There are so many different reasons why the person said "I'm fine" that have absolutely nothing to do with not needing you.

They may genuinely be fine and your perception was off.
Or they may not be fine, but 
.....are in denial about their issue.
....don't not have the energy to elaborate.
.....feel their problem is very private
.... do not want to burden you with their problem
... have a problem that is highly stigmatized
... are tired of brooding on their problems and would rather want to talk about anything else

Why can you not take their appreciation at face value and believe that they appreciate being asked how they are? That may be all they need at the moment. They may not feel a burning need to go into detail about their mental health crisis or the trauma they experienced, and they do not owe this to you. Being friends does not mean they have to feel like discussing deeply personal problems right that minute just because you make a rare appearance.
All they may have needed is the feeling that somebody cares enough to ask.

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by regentrude

[klmama]

17 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Being friends does not mean they have to feel like discussing deeply personal problems right that minute just because you make a rare appearance.

So true.  I was dealing with something serious this summer.  An acquaintance realized and, after some small talk, asked how I was.  I said fine, as I was thinking she meant generally, but then I realized she knew about the issue.  I didn't and still don't want to discuss it with her, so I haven't said anything, but I do appreciate her concern.  She was one of just a couple of people who expressed any concern.  I don't know if people haven't asked out of respect for my privacy or if they are unaware or if they just don't care.  I suspect there are some in each category.  I'm not sure how I feel about that.  

[HS Mom in NC]

10 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

My Grandmother bought a house when she and my Granddad married. She lived there till she died. All the neighbors did the same so my Granddad was in a neighbrohood surrounded by people who knew one another very well. They all watched each others kids grow up.  He lived there till he moved to a nursing home. 

I don't know anyone who's lived like that.

The South...

Many many areas are populated with people who've lived in the same general area their whole life,. They see high school friends regularly and are tight with their sisters, brothers, cousins, parents and grandparents. So they don't have any holes to fill in their relationships. And it can be brutally hard to break into the circle.

My family grew up in the same general area since 1946, had the some of the same friends since young adulthood,  and we adult siblings were very tight and socialized regularly.  Yet we managed to make friends outside that social circle on a regular basis. In the part of the west where I'm from children are taught by their parents and school teachers to include new people because it's morally good and not doing so is morally bad.  I think the difference in Western vs. Southern is dynamic vs. static.  In the West people value innovation and change and in the South a significant percentage of people value tradition and are opposed to change itself.

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

My family grew up in the same general area since 1946, had the some of the same friends since young adulthood,  and we adult siblings were very tight and socialized regularly.  Yet we managed to make friends outside that social circle on a regular basis. In the part of the west where I'm from children are taught by their parents and school teachers to include new people because it's morally good and not doing so is morally bad.  I think the difference in Western vs. Southern is dynamic vs. static.  In the West people value innovation and change and in the South a significant percentage of people value tradition and are opposed to change itself.

I'm sure that's possible; Hey, I'm southern myself, but we moved around a lot and I never landed in one place for very long. Also, when one has never been on the outside, it's much easier to be oblivious to the needs of an outsider or what might be welcoming to someone who;s never been someplace before.

We talked about these things at church once. We go to a smaller church that is populated with many people who have been in the area of decades if not generations. The old guard were completely shocked that "outsiders" or new people would perceive some of the things that they took for granted as unwelcoming. 

It's easy to say "Well they should just show up to x activity and jump right in." But if you are not sure that you'll have a job to do when you're there, if people look at you uncertainly when you ask because the same people have been working the activity for decades, if nobody really talks to you while you're there, why would someone want to come back?  There's a huge disconnect between those who feel very comfortable in these environments and those are brand new. The old guard don't understand how it feels because they've never been there.  

Our area is changing because the city is growing and attracting others from outside the area. I've found better friends in the people who are likewise NOT from this area than those who are "old guard." Like I said, the circle can feel very closed.

I am a traditionalist. I love the comfort of knowing what to expect. But theres a difference between loving certain traditions and behaving in an unloving manner toward people.

 

[Amy Gen]

I’m trying to understand what I can do better as a friend. I think my expectations may be off because I have people who I *think* are perfectly happy always being the one to always initiate contact. 
 

I have one friend from Jr High school who calls me every week or 2. I doubt I’ve ever called him. When we lived closer he would call and say he was in the areas, let’s grab lunch. Now we just talk on the phone to visit. It appears that we are both happy with this arrangement. 
 

This may make me less sensitive to the person who is always reaching out. I have thought that I need to call my best friend this week, because the last time we talked, she was doing huge favors for me. I don’t want her to think I am only interested when I need something. 
 

My adult kids have told me that they have a hard time staying in contact with close friends once they move away. I tell them to make contact, even if it sounds stupid such as texting and saying “Can you believe my cat just did this weird thing.” Or “I’m working on this paper and it reminded me of that class we were in.” They have actually had good luck with just letting friends know they are thinking of them without actually having anything profound to share. 
 

For myself, I get overwhelmed easily. In school, I was happy with 2 close girlfriends and my gang of guy friends. I can see why the other girls thought I was stuck up. I was just at my limit of social interaction. In retrospect, I can see how I could have handled it better, but I think I just assumed they were all happy with their social circles too, so I didn’t have any obligation to be more inclusive. 
 

In Texas, we were on one neighborhood swim team for 19 years. I only made a couple of friends, but I never felt the desire for more. There was one mom there that I didn’t know, but she had this brilliant preschooler in the stands. I asked if she planned on putting him in the local school for Kinder, because I didn’t think he would be a good fit. I ended up giving her a copy of TWTM, and she has become one of my closest confidants. I was with her when her husband died. And even though she is across the country, she is planning to visit me soon. And that preschooler is a nuclear physicist now. 
 

Another mom approached me at the end of the season and told me she had been new and my daughter made her children’s experience so special and was so welcoming that she had to meet me. She has also become a decades long friend, often doing all of the work to fly out and visit as well as always being the one who calls and makes plans. So, again, I was happy with just having 2 close friends and probably appeared unwelcoming to everyone else without realizing it.  
 

When we moved here, 4 years ago, the swim team had a inner core group that are very close. They do most of the work and function as a family. It was a shock to me to find out that there are families on the team who have been trying to break into the in group for 10 years and not been successful. 
 

They are super polite and warm to everyone at functions but there is always an after party or meal after an event that only a select few are invited to. I’ve wondered if this counted as a clique, but sometimes there is someone new who is immediately welcomed in. 
 

I think I just have a habit of being in relationships where I let the other person do most of the work, and I’m aware enough of how the people outside of my own little cluster are feeling. So I’m thankful for this thread because I have some things to work on. 

[fairfarmhand]

39 minutes ago, Amy Gen said:

I’m trying to understand what I can do better as a friend. I think my expectations may be off because I have people who I *think* are perfectly happy always being the one to always initiate contact. 
 

I have one friend from Jr High school who calls me every week or 2. I doubt I’ve ever called him. When we lived closer he would call and say he was in the areas, let’s grab lunch. Now we just talk on the phone to visit. It appears that we are both happy with this arrangement. 
 

This may make me less sensitive to the person who is always reaching out. I have thought that I need to call my best friend this week, because the last time we talked, she was doing huge favors for me. I don’t want her to think I am only interested when I need something. 
 

My adult kids have told me that they have a hard time staying in contact with close friends once they move away. I tell them to make contact, even if it sounds stupid such as texting and saying “Can you believe my cat just did this weird thing.” Or “I’m working on this paper and it reminded me of that class we were in.” They have actually had good luck with just letting friends know they are thinking of them without actually having anything profound to share. 
 

For myself, I get overwhelmed easily. In school, I was happy with 2 close girlfriends and my gang of guy friends. I can see why the other girls thought I was stuck up. I was just at my limit of social interaction. In retrospect, I can see how I could have handled it better, but I think I just assumed they were all happy with their social circles too, so I didn’t have any obligation to be more inclusive. 
 

In Texas, we were on one neighborhood swim team for 19 years. I only made a couple of friends, but I never felt the desire for more. There was one mom there that I didn’t know, but she had this brilliant preschooler in the stands. I asked if she planned on putting him in the local school for Kinder, because I didn’t think he would be a good fit. I ended up giving her a copy of TWTM, and she has become one of my closest confidants. I was with her when her husband died. And even though she is across the country, she is planning to visit me soon. And that preschooler is a nuclear physicist now. 
 

Another mom approached me at the end of the season and told me she had been new and my daughter made her children’s experience so special and was so welcoming that she had to meet me. She has also become a decades long friend, often doing all of the work to fly out and visit as well as always being the one who calls and makes plans. So, again, I was happy with just having 2 close friends and probably appeared unwelcoming to everyone else without realizing it.  
 

When we moved here, 4 years ago, the swim team had a inner core group that are very close. They do most of the work and function as a family. It was a shock to me to find out that there are families on the team who have been trying to break into the in group for 10 years and not been successful. 
 

They are super polite and warm to everyone at functions but there is always an after party or meal after an event that only a select few are invited to. I’ve wondered if this counted as a clique, but sometimes there is someone new who is immediately welcomed in. 
 

I think I just have a habit of being in relationships where I let the other person do most of the work, and I’m aware enough of how the people outside of my own little cluster are feeling. So I’m thankful for this thread because I have some things to work on. 

Yay for your self awareness!

I am like you where I am content with a handful of friends, but I never want to give the impression that I'm unwelcoming. Pre-Covid, about once a month we'd invite a mob of homeschooling families (moms and kids) to our home to hang out and play board games.  Didn't matter whether people were besties or not, they can all play games and have coffee together. I have other friends I am very close to that I go out with one on one, but we still try to include lots of people in those monthly hangouts. and there are acquaintance level friendships that I still text every few weeks just to say I'm thinking of them. 

[Danae]

6 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I'm sure that's possible; Hey, I'm southern myself, but we moved around a lot and I never landed in one place for very long. Also, when one has never been on the outside, it's much easier to be oblivious to the needs of an outsider or what might be welcoming to someone who;s never been someplace before.

We talked about these things at church once. We go to a smaller church that is populated with many people who have been in the area of decades if not generations. The old guard were completely shocked that "outsiders" or new people would perceive some of the things that they took for granted as unwelcoming. 

It's easy to say "Well they should just show up to x activity and jump right in." But if you are not sure that you'll have a job to do when you're there, if people look at you uncertainly when you ask because the same people have been working the activity for decades, if nobody really talks to you while you're there, why would someone want to come back?  There's a huge disconnect between those who feel very comfortable in these environments and those are brand new. The old guard don't understand how it feels because they've never been there.  

Our area is changing because the city is growing and attracting others from outside the area. I've found better friends in the people who are likewise NOT from this area than those who are "old guard." Like I said, the circle can feel very closed.

I am a traditionalist. I love the comfort of knowing what to expect. But theres a difference between loving certain traditions and behaving in an unloving manner toward people.

 

I was at a church workshop once where this was described as the difference between “friendly” and “welcoming.”  Churches that describe themselves as being very friendly tend to be friendly to the people who are already a part of everything and not realize that what they perceive as a super-friendly atmosphere doesn’t feel the same to newcomers. 

[JessP]

16 hours ago, regentrude said:

There are so many different reasons why the person said "I'm fine" that have absolutely nothing to do with not needing you.

They may genuinely be fine and your perception was off.
Or they may not be fine, but 
.....are in denial about their issue.
....don't not have the energy to elaborate.
.....feel their problem is very private
.... do not want to burden you with their problem
... have a problem that is highly stigmatized
... are tired of brooding on their problems and would rather want to talk about anything else

 

I really appreciate this list, and I'm going to save it to remind myself of in the future. I value seeing other perspectives.

The intention of my message was the same as the intention of what you wrote here. 

Showing another perspective.  Trying to explain what the person you feel hurt by may be thinking. 

My goal was to answer your question "why do some people do this" with the answer. Which is, that personality type plays a big role. If that's not what you were looking for, I am sorry. I was new to this forum and made mistaken assumptions about the community. If this was mainly meant to be a vent/emotional solidarity post, I truly apologize.

My goal was to describe what it feels like from the other side. This thread has been somewhat enlightening to me regarding the perspective of people whose personalities differ from mine. In fact, I checked in with a couple friends yesterday because of it. Actually, if you look at the few posts on here from people who also struggle to initiate social contact, you will see that's a common theme among them. Hopefully looking back at those can provide support to my previous observation: that the people who are likely to not initiate as often, tend to be pretty open to constructive criticism. I hope that will give you encouragement to be open with your friends about how you feel. 

You expressed that you don't want to lose those friendships. I don't know you, but I still wish the best for you. And if that is for those relationships to be revived, I hope that happens. My intention was to provide information you may not have had, but that could help with that.

Personally, I always appreciate insight into what other people might be thinking, so that I know better how to interact with them. Treating others as you want to be treated only goes so far. In my life, I try to treat others as THEY want to be treated. In order to do this, I have to know how they want to be treated. If I never receive information about that, I would be treating them as I want to be treated. That may mean texting only for informational purposes. Receiving text messages, or being invited to do things stresses me out.That is part of why I hesitate to text/invite other people, not wanting to stress them out either (you will notice that's also a common theme in the posts). So if I'm assuming you're like me, I may avoid texting you because that's what I would want. We live in a society that is structured for extroverts. So we introverts understand that we are expected to adhere to those ideals. But that doesn't mean we know how best to do that, or that it's easy. It's a constant battle in the mind between what we are told people want, and what our gut tells us people want..thus the indecision about whether to text or not. And by then it's too late, because the other person already texted (another common theme). Until I read your post about asking someone to join on a walk being easy, it had never occurred to me that could be easy for anyone. I've been mulling that over ever since. It's quite fascinating.

 

I'm sorry if anything I said felt like I was invalidating your pain. I'm a practical- over social-minded person. If someone is hurting, and I have information that could improve the source of that pain, sharing that information is how I show I care. I do realize that sometimes people just want to have their emotions validated, and I put a great deal of effort and research into learning how to do that in real life. However, based on my past experience with a homeschool forums, I was picturing this as being mainly informational.  I deeply apologize if I misjudged on what you were needing.

[JessP]

20 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

It's their responsibility to ignore you if they want to. If you ignore yourself for them, where they can't even see, you're taking away their right to choose and they don't even know it. Send the texts and to hell with the consequences! 

I appreciate your insight into how their minds may work! From my perspective it feels like texting is what removes any choice they have (it obligates them to text me back). 

The consequences do matter to me, so I can't disregard them so easily. But I have certainly gotten a lot to consider and digest to help me further improve my interactions with my friends. For me the difficulty is trying to determine which friends may feel as you do about it, and which feel as I do. So who is okay with getting bombarded 😂 I usually base it on whether they have a lot of family things going on, and whether I'm a primary or fringe relationship for them