Hard work and success

[Carrie12345]

It’s weird to sift through one conversation that’s both widely general and intensely specific at the same time, lol.  The reality is so complex, there’s no real way to cover all aspects.

Social disadvantages are incredibly real, wherever your perseverance lies.

Though illegal, I lost a promotion for being pregnant. I couldn’t risk the rest of my job for the time and money it’d take to sue when I had medical bills and a baby to support. It didn’t really matter how terrific I was at my job.

DD hopes that someday she’ll land a paid firefighting job. She’s been incredibly privileged in that field, with parents who have supported her training since she was 14 years old. She’s worked her butt off from day 1. No one could follow the “recipe” for success in that field better than she has.  But those jobs are hard to come by and hundreds of people apply for each one.  For now, her age works against her, and that will change some day.  But it’s also a heavily White Male field. Women and minorities are given extra points on their test to offset discrimination.  But take a wild guess at how that offset is seen by the White Males.

[Storygirl]

@lovinmyboys I offered a book suggestion above, but I also wanted to let you know that I completely understand your feelings personally. I have two boys less than a year apart in age, and the older one has a long list of learning challenges and diagnoses. He will never achieve the same things that his brother (or sisters) are able to. For example, the boys are both taking biology this year, and one brother gets A's with an average amount of studying, while the other barely passes despite daily help from me at home and accommodations at school. The younger is learning to drive, but the older is not ready and may never be. The younger will go to college, but even high school material is too hard for the older.

It's not just a matter of effort, and things are not equitable. It can be hard for parents to work through these things emotionally. I get it, and I'm sorry.

[BlsdMama]

Oh mama, I can so relate.  I have two that struggle mightily.  I have a dear friend who also had a particular daughter who struggled.  That daughter is now 16 and people think she is gifted in areas - they don't understand she works twice as hard.  I have an older daughter who is now 18 - she didn't struggle the same, but school didn't come easy to her.  She clawed for it.  People said, "Wow, X has done so much.  She's lucky/talented/etc." In some ways it was unfair - it assumed some kind of giftedness without effort.  What they didn't know was that her ability was very average in particular areas but she tripled the effort of the average person both in time and in effort put in.

Across the board, while it is not remotely fair, they tend to acquire the character trait of perseverance.  This will serve them their entire lives.  I struggle (relationship wise) with one of these kiddos - because it's hard, he hates it and because he hates it, it's hard, kwim?  We butt heads a lot, but despite promising I will quit homeschooling a handful of times, we have persevered.  He's 15, almost 16 now, and I see the maturing starting to happen! I still see the struggles but we're starting to see real successes.  Hard work does go towards success.  It's just not the guarantee that society likes to sell.  Truth is we only take our next breath because God allows it.  Our ability to work hard is limited by physical abilities... but we live in a self glorifying culture and so it is self glorification when one succeeds in an area to "modestly" stand and shout to the crowd, "See? Hard work pays off!"  It also helps to be 6'7" and play basketball.... etc.

I guess what I'd tell you is recognize his/her struggles but celebrate the wins.  Keep a record of beginning of the year work and look at it at the end of the year and see that movement!  When we started Saxon 7/6, I honestly believed we might not be able to get to the end.  We're almost to the end and I feel (dare I say it?) confident that we can move into 8/7 and get to the end of that.  He is *really* able to read now.  He is writing (gasp) and while it isn't a lot, he's doing it.  To go back, I would have had him do more (quantity) in the lower grades because he feels a little like he is drowning now that we're doing so much more, but he's rising to the occasion and that's new.  I'll take perseverance and willingness to work over a natural gifting any day.
 

[MysteryJen]

My kids are all over the map, in terms of learning disabilities, academic success, and athletic talent. 

We always talked about the things you can control. You can't control your genetics and you can't control the circumstances you were born into. 

You can control your attitude towards those things and you can control your responses. You can control how hard you work and what priorities you have.

Hard work is always going to be part of success. But you get to define success. 

It is always easier to use an athletic example. Talent is never dispersed fairly. For example, in my family- the two girls swim (swam) competitively. The oldest is the most talented, learning to swim came as easily as breathing. She worked extremely hard, like most girls who swim distance, and grew to 5'11. That was lucky and not in her control. Those inches made the difference for her in times and recruiting. 

The younger sister worked much harder to learn to swim- she worked to get rid of problems in her stroke. She stayed absolutely tiny until she was 15. She is a full five inches shorter than her sister. She had an injury that was a genetic bone malformation. She had to learn to define her own success. And she did- decided what times would be successful, what conference would mean success for her, what physical goals she could strive for and achieve. She is successful- but compared to her sister's achievements- she looks lesser. But she is not and she doesn't feel that way. She feels successful.

It is easy to look at people who are successful (as the world defines it or as you have decided to define it) and think that it was luck, or easy, or fate. When you really look beneath the surface, you see a lot of work that was hidden and made them ready to meet opportunity when it comes. Hard, smart work matters because it makes you better- even if nobody sees it.

Success is the world is dependent on so many things- school success is dependent on one or two things. They are not the same and it is better to look toward life outside school and find success outside of getting grades or gold stars.

[SereneHome]

1 hour ago, Margaret in CO said:

I'm decided that we are not going to host a college student over break. We ended up with him almost 6 months last year, and it was just too much. Someone asked me about him the other day, and I said "He's lazy. I don't do lazy." "Nope, you sure don't!" So, I guess that's pretty obvious to people I know. I'm tired of being asked why dh is still working, with cancer. Well, first off, we have one more tuition payment for dd. She lost her full-ride due to an injury--not her fault. And oldest dd has lost all her employment for a year (musician), so needs some help. What is dh supposed to do? Sit on the couch until he kicks off? He will die all right, but it will be by homicide! 😉  We watched a friend do that with her dh. He COULD have taught for another year. They needed the money, plus why sit there waiting to die? I don't get it. Get off your rear! Dd's bf told me the other day that his dad always told him, "You can be anything you want to be. Just not lazy." I think I need to cross-stitch that!

Well, I am not a big fan of lazy either, but I can't imagine having my husband work just to pay my child's tuition. Especially if he was sick.

And it's interesting that he is working while sick bc she had an injury. It's not like him getting cancer was his fault either....

[SKL]

25 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Well, I am not a big fan of lazy either, but I can't imagine having my husband work just to pay my child's tuition. Especially if he was sick.

And it's interesting that he is working while sick bc she had an injury. It's not like him getting cancer was his fault either....

Retirement isn't necessarily best for health or happiness.  It depends on a lot of things.

[SereneHome]

42 minutes ago, SKL said:

Retirement isn't necessarily best for health or happiness.  It depends on a lot of things.

I understand. But she specifically said he is working bc they are paying dd's tuition bc she doesn't have scholarship due to injury.

[wintermom]

Here's a different perspective about luck, hard work and success that most of us never have to deal with. I play tennis with an extremely cheerful, good humoured, kind, energetic and athletic man from Laos. I asked him if he played tennis growing up. Nope, he played some volleyball and soccer. The soccer was with bare feet.

Turns out he was extremely lucky to be alive. He left his home and his large family at age 18 to avoid being pressed into military service when communists took over his homeland. We went across the border and lived for 7 years in a camp about the size of a few tennis courts with tall fencing. He received a bucket of water for himself a day for drinking, washing, cooking. His success was to survive. There were no formal or informal educational opportunities. His hard work was getting out of there and making a life for himself as a cook in Canada. I am so honoured to have him as a friend. He is a huge success in my opinion. 

[Twolittleboys]

In my opinion there is a (strong) correlation between hard work and success. But everyone starts at a different place and yes, that is far from fair. If you are born into a rich, educated etc. family and maybe are fairly good-looking and smart you will likely be successful even with little work. If you are born in a disadvantaged position it will be much harder.

But with a given start, hard work will usually lead to more success. And success isn't the same for everyone. One person may be successful if they get a high-powered job, win prices etc. while for another success may be a decent job and a small apartment. It remains unfair but on the other hand success doesn't necessarily mean happiness.

[frogger]

On 10/18/2020 at 4:25 PM, SereneHome said:

OK, so I have to confess that I was answering in general terms not necessarily in relations to OP.

to the bolded - I think you are unique in that sense.  I think the concept of KUWJ doesn't just relate to who is buying what, but very much alive in many aspects of our adult life. Jobs, relationships, how we parent our children, how we are measured by success of our children, just to name a few.

I can't really say anything too intelligent when it comes to OP, bc while I have all kinds of ideas on how children should be raised, I think I am failing mine terribly, so.... 🙂

I do think there is some competition in jobs of course, but we also choose jobs according to talents, likes, etc. When we start out at fast food or something similar though, a good work ethic and some very basic social skills will make you the star employee but after that you choose your path based on interests and abilities. 

 

As far as KUWJ in relationships, kid comparison, having stuff or whatever, I think people would be happier if they just dropped out of that game. I will congratulate you on your kid's scholarship, your new big fancy house, or a 50 cent raise or a great find in the free section of Craigslist. You can be "better" than me and I don't care. I'm just doing the best I can in my own little world and am happy. I don't need that competition to make me happy. I doubt it makes anyone happy even if they think they need it.

[SereneHome]

On 10/21/2020 at 3:08 AM, Twolittleboys said:

In my opinion there is a (strong) correlation between hard work and success. But everyone starts at a different place and yes, that is far from fair. If you are born into a rich, educated etc. family and maybe are fairly good-looking and smart you will likely be successful even with little work. If you are born in a disadvantaged position it will be much harder.

But with a given start, hard work will usually lead to more success. And success isn't the same for everyone. One person may be successful if they get a high-powered job, win prices etc. while for another success may be a decent job and a small apartment. It remains unfair but on the other hand success doesn't necessarily mean happiness.

I disagree with it. I only have anecdotal evidence for my opinion, but I have seen numerous times when both of those scenarios can be an advantage or disadvantage. 

I think a lot hugely depends on the person and that's why I just cringe when I hear people say that someone is just lucky or unlucky.

 

[frogger]

2 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I disagree with it. I only have anecdotal evidence for my opinion, but I have seen numerous times when both of those scenarios can be an advantage or disadvantage. 

I think a lot hugely depends on the person and that's why I just cringe when I hear people say that someone is just lucky or unlucky.

 

I agree. I don't like the "you are just lucky" . It is actually just another aspect of competition.

 

I'd say.

 

Be thankful when you succeed for the things that went right- not boastful, looking down on others.

 

 

Don't assume things: Be thoughtful.

Encouraging to those who have succeeded at something. Don't down play it.

Encourage those who are struggling. Recognize life has all sorts of challenges out of people's control.

Don't take away agency. Life is both what you get stuck with  AND how you react. If you take away agency; you take away all motivation and hope.