Exams in online classes

[Bootsie]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

Not the entire semester - we can create material as we go. But we need a structure and a plan for teaching and assessments. The more you think about stuff, the more things you recognize are impossible to replicate electronically - like turning in homework. Sure, 20 students can email scans, but not 400, just too much data. So, coming up with a  plan how to change all assessments into a computerized format. I coordinate a team of 5 who will each need to have a plan for their recitations that, so far, are chalk on blackboard and oral discussions. 

Exam in my small class of 60 is scheduled for Friday; I will use that as a trial run for my big (450) class. 

Good luck!  I agree that the more you think about it, the more issues you realize there are.  I had given exams to students the week before spring break. I can give them their grades, but I haven't figured out an easy way for each one to get the feedback I marked on their exams.  We are supposed to be doing this for 2 weeks, but I suspect it will be longer (which would change how I do it.)   Luckily I used some of the online quiz functions in D2L last semester for another class and became familiar with setting a lot of that up.  

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

 I had given exams to students the week before spring break. I can give them their grades, but I haven't figured out an easy way for each one to get the feedback I marked on their exams.  

what subject do you teach, and how many students are in your class? Since you mentioned calculators, I assume it's a math based class? 
Scan and email would work for a small class of 10-20, not practical for 50, impossible for 200. 
Honestly, at this point, I think exam feedback will be far from their minds as they have other things to sort.

[Kassia]

13 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Honestly, at this point, I think exam feedback will be far from their minds as they have other things to sort.

 

My kids would definitely appreciate feedback.

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Kassia said:

My kids would definitely appreciate feedback.

I have, in previous semesters, given surveys and asked, among other things, what students think about the feedback on the graded homework. The percentage that responded they don't look at the graded homework was shockingly high and disillusioning to an instructor who spent hours and hours on grading.

Your kids are the exception. It has been my experience as instructor that the majority of students is not really interested in detailed feedback.

[Bootsie]

32 minutes ago, regentrude said:

what subject do you teach, and how many students are in your class? Since you mentioned calculators, I assume it's a math based class? 
Scan and email would work for a small class of 10-20, not practical for 50, impossible for 200. 
Honestly, at this point, I think exam feedback will be far from their minds as they have other things to sort.

I teach finance. This semester I have about 120 students in a course which is for students minoring in business.  Luckily it isn't a class that serves as a prerequisite for another class and I have a great deal of latitude of what I focus on in the class.  I have some students who are very fearful of math and we use a financial calculator in the class.  The midterm they just took was on time value of money which is the basis for the second half of the course.  Some need the feedback to see what they were doing incorrectly.  I also have a fair number of students who think they "failed" if they made an 89 and want to see every point that was taken off.  The exam was about 7 pages long and I had multiple versions.  Not something easy to scan 120 times into different files and email each student.  On top of that, I graded them and left for spring break (without my books either--I had all of the next week's in class material ready to go upon my return--thought I was so organized); I am now in Austria deciding how to get back to the US (or if I want to hold off for a bit and do my remote teaching here).  

[regentrude]

10 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I teach finance. This semester I have about 120 students in a course which is for students minoring in business.  Luckily it isn't a class that serves as a prerequisite for another class and I have a great deal of latitude of what I focus on in the class.  I have some students who are very fearful of math and we use a financial calculator in the class.  The midterm they just took was on time value of money which is the basis for the second half of the course.  Some need the feedback to see what they were doing incorrectly.  I also have a fair number of students who think they "failed" if they made an 89 and want to see every point that was taken off.  The exam was about 7 pages long and I had multiple versions.  Not something easy to scan 120 times into different files and email each student.  On top of that, I graded them and left for spring break (without my books either--I had all of the next week's in class material ready to go upon my return--thought I was so organized); I am now in Austria deciding how to get back to the US (or if I want to hold off for a bit and do my remote teaching here).  

In that case, I would simply post the solutions and have students figure out how the problem should be done correctly. Seeing each point taken off may be nice under normal circumstances, but this situation is not normal. I am sure they can understand that.

Good luck getting back or staying, Crazy times.

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I have, in previous semesters, given surveys and asked, among other things, what students think about the feedback on the graded homework. The percentage that responded they don't look at the graded homework was shockingly high and disillusioning to an instructor who spent hours and hours on grading.

Your kids are the exception. It has been my experience as instructor that the majority of students is not really interested in detailed feedback.

 

That's shocking to me.  What's the point in homework and exams without feedback?  

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

That's shocking to me.  What's the point in homework and exams without feedback?  

To earn points and create a grade 🙂

Edited March 15, 2020 by regentrude

[EKS]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

The percentage that responded they don't look at the graded homework was shockingly high and disillusioning to an instructor who spent hours and hours on grading.

I am teaching a single student Algebra 2 online.  I started by giving detailed feedback on his work, but I have since stopped because it is obvious that he doesn't even glance at it.  For example, I have him do a practice test before each test.  I would tell him exactly what he got wrong, how he could correct it, and how many points he would have gotten off.  Many times this was easy to correct stuff--so no relearning anything.  And he would make IDENTICAL errors on the test.  When I asked him if he had looked at my feedback, he'd tell me that he forgot.  Then what exactly is the point of a practice test, if you don't use it to improve your performance? 

Now I just indicate which problems are wrong and have him redo them until they're right.  I tell him that I am always available for questions in between our class meetings, but he has never once taken me up on it.  

[elegantlion]

7 hours ago, Kassia said:

 

That's shocking to me.  What's the point in homework and exams without feedback?  

I TA for a humanities course and its the same thing. Many don't read exam or paper feedback because they make the same mistakes on subsequent assignments. 

[ElizabethB]

On 3/14/2020 at 10:32 AM, regentrude said:

@kianaMy problem is that we have not been using an online homework system because we want to keep things inexpensive for students (and because we have better ways of handling the homework). I am also not requiring students to purchase an expensive current edition of a textbook, so don't have any publisher created resources.  

Gotta get busy writing a test bank....

Maybe you can get some of your test bank questions from professors at other schools, and/or a few really old textbooks that your students are not likely to have. 

[Bootsie]

A number of publishers have announced that they will be providing access to materials for college students free of charge through May:

https://get.vitalsource.com/vitalsource-helps

 

[G5052]

I teach web development, and Adobe is also providing free software. It's late in the semester for that, but it will help some. 

[Bootsie]

My university subscribes to Respondus lock-down browser with video, so there is no charge to students for the service.  It apparently highlights any suspicious behavior through the camera for the professor to go back and review.  

One technological problem I have heard is that the students cannot have anything running in the background, and many computers have some background programs running automatically when you turn on your computer.  So, the first time students use the technology, sometimes troubleshooting has to be done in order to use it.   Ironically, I don't think I would be able to take a test like this on my university computer because I do not have administrator privileges to add software or turn off certain background processes.  I do not think it is practical to expect all of my students to have a computer set up where they can do this in a room where brother or sister isn't going to walk in or have some other distraction, especially when others in the same family are trying to work and do school from home at the same time.  I also question what the true capacity of the system is if everyone tries using the technology at the same time; we have already run into these issues a few times at my university.

 

[MamaSprout]

14 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

My university subscribes to Respondus lock-down browser with video, so there is no charge to students for the service.  It apparently highlights any suspicious behavior through the camera for the professor to go back and review.  

 

Another issue with Respondus is that is won't work with accommodation software, like text readers.

Edited March 18, 2020 by MamaSprout

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

My university subscribes to Respondus lock-down browser with video, so there is no charge to students for the service.  It apparently highlights any suspicious behavior through the camera for the professor to go back and review.  

One technological problem I have heard is that the students cannot have anything running in the background, and many computers have some background programs running automatically when you turn on your computer.  So, the first time students use the technology, sometimes troubleshooting has to be done in order to use it.   

Biggest issue with lockdown browser is: it locks down on one device. Since they all have phones, that doesn't help. 

Detecting suspicious behavior would mean a live proctor somewhere who is monitoring the student. yeah, not possible. I'd say forget about this and be prepared to give unproctored exams where the anti-cheating security is a randomized test, one question displayed at a time, with a tight timeframe so they don't have time to take pics and disseminate every single question.

[Bootsie]

26 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Biggest issue with lockdown browser is: it locks down on one device. Since they all have phones, that doesn't help. 

Detecting suspicious behavior would mean a live proctor somewhere who is monitoring the student. yeah, not possible. I'd say forget about this and be prepared to give unproctored exams where the anti-cheating security is a randomized test, one question displayed at a time, with a tight timeframe so they don't have time to take pics and disseminate every single question.

With the video monitoring, it is supposed to pick up if a student is looking at another device or talking to someone.  I can't imagine how it can do this.  I don't know if it uses some eye movement detection algorithm.  I can't imagine taking a test having to look at a screen.  I have seen studies where cheating is reduced simply by placing a picture of an eye on a screen in the room; that there is something psychological about "being watched" that changes human behavior.  

I can't imagine how much recording would have to be done as students across the country take exams like this.  My hunch is that it couldn't handle the load.  And, I can't imagine trying to deal with a grade appeal unless there was something extremely blatant.  

I agree that it isn't a practical way of monitoring the students.  And, I sure don't want any of the headaches that might come along with it when the system crashes or there are other technological problems.

Then of course, my administration has said not to expect some students to have more than a phone... (which isn't consistent with giving tests on a computer with a lockdown browser)

 

[Bootsie]

39 minutes ago, ByeByeMartha said:

I'm not an instructor but wanted to share what my DD's instructor is doing for their math class final--

Students have to submit an electronic copy/photo of all the work they did for each problem--even though the exam itself is online. This will enable the instructor to ensure the student worked out all the problems plus allow partial credit for work done.

But that in no way shows who worked out the problem.  The problem isn't simply students in the same class sharing answers.  The much bigger problem is that it could be someone half way around the world that is taking the exam.  

[elegantlion]

33 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

But that in no way shows who worked out the problem.  The problem isn't simply students in the same class sharing answers.  The much bigger problem is that it could be someone half way around the world that is taking the exam.  

Yes, these are problems with online instruction in some disciplines. One of the historians I know makes his online studies come to campus for the exams or they pay for a proctoring service, but these are specifics that the students agree to when they sign up for his online class. It's all stated up front.

With this situation, students didn't sign up for an online section for a number of reasons, so a lot of the standards of online instruction may have to be softened in order for students to just get through the semester. It is less than perfect and there will be some who try to game the system to cheat. IMO, it's just not feasible to micromanage every student. 

[elegantlion]

Also, imo, I hope some classes fail miserably at being put online. I believe in online instruction, but it doesn't work well in all disciplines and is not for all students. I've taken a lot of online classes, but I prefer in person classes, there is just a difference. My concern is that some administrators are looking for ways to increase online instruction and if these spring classes go well, that may be the catalyst to bring more instruction online period, not offer optional online sections, but just move to online. I don't think that would be a good move for higher education. I like online options, but not solely online. 

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, elegantlion said:

Also, imo, I hope some classes fail miserably at being put online. I believe in online instruction, but it doesn't work well in all disciplines and is not for all students. I've taken a lot of online classes, but I prefer in person classes, there is just a difference. My concern is that some administrators are looking for ways to increase online instruction and if these spring classes go well, that may be the catalyst to bring more instruction online period, not offer optional online sections, but just move to online. I don't think that would be a good move for higher education. I like online options, but not solely online. 

Personally, the more I work at bring my class online, the more nuanced I realize teaching and learning really is.  

[regentrude]

4 hours ago, ByeByeMartha said:

I'm not an instructor but wanted to share what my DD's instructor is doing for their math class final--

Students have to submit an electronic copy/photo of all the work they did for each problem--even though the exam itself is online. This will enable the instructor to ensure the student worked out all the problems plus allow partial credit for work done.

that works in a small class. I have 500 students. A photo of a single page of a student's exam is approx. 3MB of data.  Even if there's just one sheet per student (our exams are usually 4 pages), there is no way to  submit 1.5 GB of data without clogging up every system.
 

[Bootsie]

17 minutes ago, regentrude said:

that works in a small class. I have 500 students. A photo of a single page of a student's exam is approx. 3MB of data.  Even if there's just one sheet per student (our exams are usually 4 pages), there is no way to  submit 1.5 GB of data without clogging up every system.
 

I hear lots of push for online classes so that it will be cheaper for one professor to reach many students.  But, as the class size increases the online solutions get more and more problematic. 

[MerryAtHope]

8 hours ago, Bootsie said:

 I have seen studies where cheating is reduced simply by placing a picture of an eye on a screen in the room; that there is something psychological about "being watched" that changes human behavior.  

 

LOL, that's pretty funny!

[G5052]

I teach online for a school where the shells and exams are all standardized. 

Respondus is not an option for the reasons given. ProctorU is out because they are overwhelmed, and it would bring in financial issues.

So their answer? Use the existing exams, and then rewrite all of the exams this summer. Given that most full-time professors are on a 9-month schedule, guess who will do that. I'm already scheduled for two of the main classes in my area, so I'm guessing that they'll contract with me to do that. More income! Whoo-hoo...but writing tests isn't much fun. 

[regentrude]

55 minutes ago, G5052 said:

I teach online for a school where the shells and exams are all standardized. 

...So their answer? Use the existing exams, and then rewrite all of the exams this summer. 

So until now, you have been reusing exams from semester to semester?

[Bootsie]

My university just announced that it is extending online from two weeks to the rest of the semester.  The administration told us to ask our students to email us that they had received our plan for remote learning and to report back by Tuesday if there was a student we had not received an email from!  Some of the administrators just must not realize what large classes some of us have and that we would have to be keeping track of 100s of individual emails.  I am going to have to think if there is some way that I can set up a "check-in assignment" to auto collect this data rather than handling individual emails

[regentrude]

4 hours ago, Bootsie said:

My university just announced that it is extending online from two weeks to the rest of the semester.  The administration told us to ask our students to email us that they had received our plan for remote learning and to report back by Tuesday if there was a student we had not received an email from!  Some of the administrators just must not realize what large classes some of us have and that we would have to be keeping track of 100s of individual emails.  I am going to have to think if there is some way that I can set up a "check-in assignment" to auto collect this data rather than handling individual emails

are you using Canvas? You could give a "quiz" with true/false whether they read the info

The administration has no idea about the realities on the ground.

Edited March 20, 2020 by regentrude

[Bootsie]

8 hours ago, regentrude said:

are you using Canvas? You could give a "quiz" with true/false whether they read the info

The administration has no idea about the realities on the ground.

We are using D2L, so my plan is to put a quiz there--one more thing for me to keep up with and one more thing for students to have to take care of

[lewelma]

MIT has put out its academic guidelines for final exams. They will be given during the 3 hour assigned period EST, and must be taken during that time period regardless of the time zone where you are currently living.  This means my ds's two exams will both be from 1am - 4am.  We had a good laugh. 

[Bootsie]

3 hours ago, lewelma said:

MIT has put out its academic guidelines for final exams. They will be given during the 3 hour assigned period EST, and must be taken during that time period regardless of the time zone where you are currently living.  This means my ds's two exams will both be from 1am - 4am.  We had a good laugh. 

I was traveling when all of this hit and am not in the time zone of my university.  If I don't make it back to the US before final exam week, I will be given an exam at 3:00am-5:30am!

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I was traveling when all of this hit and am not in the time zone of my university.  If I don't make it back to the US before final exam week, I will be given an exam at 3:00am-5:30am!

if you give it online, you set it up ahead of time and then can do it literally in your sleep.

[BookwormTo2]

I don't teach at a college, but my DD goes to our local university for dual enrollment. As with most colleges right now, her university went online for the rest of the semester. Her science professor is making the final exam optional and recording his lectures and putting them on Canvas. Since she's got an A in his class right now, and there's just one regular exam left before the final, she's hoping she won't have to take the optional final exam (which will be online). 

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

if you give it online, you set it up ahead of time and then can do it literally in your sleep.

I plan on doing so...  In fact, I have three different sections taking finals on three different days.  Because seniors have to have grades in early (haven't heard if that will still be the case this semester), and students have a rule that they can reschedule if they have more than 2 exams in 24 hours, I usually have a lot of students taking finals with a section that is not their own.  Haven't quite figured out what type of time frame I am going to give students, but, I am going to allow a broader window of time than the normal exam time for their "take home", online exam.

[regentrude]

So I gave my first exam in my small (60 students) class yesterday and am so relieved it went well. Writing the test bank was time consuming, since I had input it in Canvas,  but for the next one I am currently learning how to use Respondus to interface between Word and Canvas. Teaching online and making everything from scratch is a lot harder than it is to teach in person.

Edited March 21, 2020 by regentrude

[Bootsie]

55 minutes ago, regentrude said:

So I gave my first exam in my small (60 students) class yesterday and am so relieved it went well. Writing the test bank was time consuming, since I had input it in Canvas,  but for the next one I am currently learning how to use Respondus to interface between Word and Canvas. Teaching online and making everything from scratch is a lot harder than it is to teach in person.

Glad it wet well!  I agree this is hard and time consuming, and I miss the more information interactions from my students, some of their casual "I was thinking..." questions that they bring up before class are more insightful and engaging than what comes up during a formal lecture.

[Lanny]

This thread is interesting to me, because the school my DD attends, like most other universities in the USA, recently (last week, after the extended Spring Break), UNC, moved the in-seat classes to online. I believe they are using Zoom Video for the classes.  I know that DD had a Calculus examination a few days ago and am wondering how the examination was presented to her. I will try to remember to ask if it was via Zoom Video or some other method.

When DD was taking courses from TTUISD, the Final Exams and the EOC exams were taken under the supervision of a proctor, but I am not sure how that would work with courses that are suddenly moved to "online".

Possibly they are hoping the students will comply with the Honor Code? Most will, but some won't.