What can I expect from visiting a Methodist church?

[staceyobu]

Our co-op meets in a Methodist church, and I am going to need to attend Sunday services there tomorrow to meet with a sound guy. I've never been in a Methodist church (grew up Baptist and now am Presbyterian). Anyone want to tell me what they are typically like? Or do they vary widely? 

 

[Terabith]

I have an M.Div from a Methodist seminary.  They vary widely.  Most commonly, Communion is first Sunday of the month.  Business casual dress.  Fairly friendly.  Lots of singing.  Sermon.  Sometimes less liturgical than PCUSA but not always.  WIDE variation in theology and practice from basically Baptist to Episcopalian.  Wide variation in terms of social stances, but usually more conservative than PCUSA but not by much.  

[staceyobu]

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I have an M.Div from a Methodist seminary.  They vary widely.  Most commonly, Communion is first Sunday of the month.  Business casual dress.  Fairly friendly.  Lots of singing.  Sermon.  Sometimes less liturgical than PCUSA but not always.  WIDE variation in theology and practice from basically Baptist to Episcopalian.  Wide variation in terms of social stances, but usually more conservative than PCUSA but not by much.  

 

We are actually PCA (one of the more conservative branches of presbyterian). Thanks for your help! 

[Terabith]

Okay.  Likely significantly more liberal than PCA both socially and politically.  But not necessarily.  Probably unlikely to get into an argument of Calvinism vrs. Arminianism on a quick visit.

[Clemsondana]

I grew up Presbyterian and my husband grew up Baptist and as a couple we landed on Methodist because we were both comfortable, so you should be fine.  Worship styles vary from very traditional to very contemporary, but if they have a website that's probably specified so that you know which you'll be attending.  Many churches have both, at different times.  

[ktgrok]

I've only been to one PCA church, but I'd say a typical UMC service is nearly identical to a PC-USA service at least in my neck of the woods. Like, if no one brought up Calvin you'd never be able to tell which one you were in. 

Heck, wasn't that in Anne of Green Gables - that she and Diana were unable to tell what the difference was between Presbyterian and Methodist?

The PCA church I went to once was much more conservative as far as doctrine and women wore hats and were dressed up more than the PC-USA and UMC church services I've been to. 

Many UMC services will have praise music and modern stuff, but not all. 

[staceyobu]

14 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Okay.  Likely significantly more liberal than PCA both socially and politically.  But not necessarily.  Probably unlikely to get into an argument of Calvinism vrs. Arminianism on a quick visit.

 

The Arminian thing has always completely scared me off of Methodists! I guess reformed Methodists aren't a thing?

[Terabith]

Just now, staceyobu said:

 

The Arminian thing has always completely scared me off of Methodists! I guess reformed Methodists aren't a thing?

Uh, no.  The Arminian thing is sort of the defining tenet of Wesleyan theology.  

I mean, there probably are some renegade ones around somewhere.  But John Wesley once told a Calvinist that his version of heaven was Wesley's view of hell.  

[staceyobu]

Just now, Terabith said:

Uh, no.  The Arminian thing is sort of the defining tenet of Wesleyan theology.  

I mean, there probably are some renegade ones around somewhere.  But John Wesley once told a Calvinist that his version of heaven was Wesley's view of hell.  

 

Lol. Good to know. I know Baptists can be sorta all of the map. And, even in PCA churches, I've run across some members who aren't really there for the reformed theology. 

[staceyobu]

Argh... failing at posting...

Terabith... do Methodists believe you can lose salvation? Do they baptize infants? 

Edited August 24, 2019 by staceyobu

[Terabith]

Theologically, PCA and Methodists are probably about as antithetical as you can get, although average person in the pew might not be able to tell the difference.  Well, maybe not compared to something like Roman Catholic and Baptist.  But it's close.  

Probably average PCA member knows their own theology a lot better than Methodist pew member.  PCA does a much better job of education as a rule.

Practically, Methodists are likely to be significantly more liberal socially than PCA.  But not always.  

In terms of worship services, PCUSA and Methodists are usually virtually identical.  PCA probably a bit more formal.  But again....not always.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Terabith

[Mbelle]

At a First United Methodist I'd except outstanding music and sermon. Comfortably friendly without being too over the top.

[Terabith]

Yes, they baptize infants.  Yes to losing salvation, but that's kind of complicated.  If you can't lose salvation, there's no free will.  Lot of universalist Methodists though.  They believe God never stops trying to save people.  Death isn't much of a barrier.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Terabith

[ktgrok]

17 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Theologically, PCA and Methodists are probably about as antithetical as you can get, although average person in the pew might not be able to tell the difference.  Well, maybe not compared to something like Roman Catholic and Baptist.  But it's close.  

Probably average PCA member knows their own theology a lot better than Methodist pew member.  PCA does a much better job of education as a rule.

Practically, Methodists are likely to be significantly more liberal socially than PCA.  But not always.  

In terms of worship services, PCUSA and Methodists are usually virtually identical.  PCA probably a bit more formal.  But again....not always.

Yup, identical worship opposite theology. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Yup, identical worship opposite theology. 

As someone from a Catholic background who attended a Methodist church for many years but never joined or became a member, I never really knew anything about how they differed from other Christian denominations, except Catholicism. I’ve learned so much on these boards about religion, even quite a bit about Catholicism.

[Hoggirl]

14 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I've only been to one PCA church, but I'd say a typical UMC service is nearly identical to a PC-USA service at least in my neck of the woods. Like, if no one brought up Calvin you'd never be able to tell which one you were in. 

Heck, wasn't that in Anne of Green Gables - that she and Diana were unable to tell what the difference was between Presbyterian and Methodist?

The PCA church I went to once was much more conservative as far as doctrine and women wore hats and were dressed up more than the PC-USA and UMC church services I've been to. 

Many UMC services will have praise music and modern stuff, but not all. 

 

Oh, that’s easy.  Presbyterians say, “debts/debtors” in the Lord’s Prayer and Methodists say “trespassers/those who trespass against us.” 

😂

Edited August 25, 2019 by Hoggirl

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Hoggirl said:

 

Oh, that’s easy.  Presbyterians says, “debts/debtors” in the Lord’s Prayer and Methodists say “trespassers/those who trespass against us.” 

😂

Nah.  Some Methodists say trespassers.  Some say debtors.  Some say sins.  That's a congregational difference.

[Hoggirl]

@Terabith - wow!  I never knew that!  I have been a lifelong Methodist and have only heard, “trespassers.”  But, I have only attended churches in the South. 

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, Terabith said:

Okay.  Likely significantly more liberal than PCA both socially and politically.  But not necessarily.  Probably unlikely to get into an argument of Calvinism vrs. Arminianism on a quick visit.

And the funny thing was- we were Calvinists members of one UM church. and we weren't the only ones. My dh was a member of the pastoral counsel and one of the other Calvinist members was one of the adult Sunday School classes.

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

And the funny thing was- we were Calvinists members of one UM church. and we weren't the only ones. My dh was a member of the pastoral counsel and one of the other Calvinist members was one of the adult Sunday School classes.

Yeah, I went to a Methodist church as a kid that was actually very Calvinist.  But, it's pretty rare and REALLY against what Wesley taught.  

[J-rap]

I grew up a Lutheran but attended a Methodist church after I was married and living in Washington, D.C.  It was the first church that brought me to a clearer understanding of Jesus.  The pastor was great -- very intellectual and very Jesus-centered.  If we had stayed living there, I probably would still be a Methodist.  🙂

The Methodist church in the most recent town we lived in was very social-activist oriented.  It was an interesting blend of sightly liberal and quite traditional.

So, I think it varies.  I will say that the Methodist churches I've attended have never been legalistic or ultra conservative.  Probably all of them have leaned toward academia and intellect.  Overall, they've always been a comfortable and welcoming church.

[TravelingChris]

Oh, and the PCA church of which we were members and the PC/USA church we are now members of.  are super similar. The PCA and my current church are or were teaching children the same Confession.  They both were and are pro-life, anti sex before marriage, etc.  

[AmandaVT]

13 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

 

Oh, that’s easy.  Presbyterians says, “debts/debtors” in the Lord’s Prayer and Methodists say “trespassers/those who trespass against us.” 

😂

 

I went to a Union service with Presbyterians, Methodists and UCC congregations - the Reverend paused when she got to the Lord's Prayer and said: "Everyone feel free to say it in your native language", which elicited a fair bit of laughter in the pews. 🙂

[ktgrok]

UMC churches always have the best youth groups and pumpkin patches in Florida...but that's probably not helpful. 

[staceyobu]

22 hours ago, Terabith said:

Uh, no.  The Arminian thing is sort of the defining tenet of Wesleyan theology.  

I mean, there probably are some renegade ones around somewhere.  But John Wesley once told a Calvinist that his version of heaven was Wesley's view of hell.  

 

So... we went. I'm not sure how interested you would be in engaging in a theological discussion, but...

We moved to this city four years ago. We attended one PCA church that had no children over 2nd grade. Our youngest is in 2nd. It was also a bit of a drive from our house and was hard to be in community with the people there. We left a year ago to reconsider attending somewhere the kids could plug in more. We started visiting a different PCA church that had a small youth ministry and was closer to home. It is much more contemporary than any PCA church we've ever attended. And I don't enjoy that. Since we've started attending, the 15 person youth group has dropped to about 3 (two of them are mine). They are reducing what they offer for youth since there just aren't many youth. And, I'm like, well, that sucks... because we literally came here because we wanted our kids to have something.

I was surprised by the Methodist church. It had more of the traditional, liturgical feel. The sermon was good. They have an active youth program. They have communion every week. It was small enough that I think you could know everyone, but large enough that there seemed to be a good mix of people of all ages. Our co-op meets there, so I know some of the staff and the kids are already familiar with the building. Heck, I have a set of keys, lol.

Methodist has basically been on the rock bottom of my list of places I would consider because I've always considered them to be the antithesis of everything I believe. But, my husband and I walked out and stared at each other, and were like, uhh... that was unexpected.

So, now I'm like, do we go again?

20 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

 

Oh, that’s easy.  Presbyterians say, “debts/debtors” in the Lord’s Prayer and Methodists say “trespassers/those who trespass against us.” 

😂

 

They said trespass! Ha!

[Terabith]

I'm always up for theological discussion, but because Methodist churches differ so much in pretty much every way, it probably would be important to have a discussion with the pastor.  Something you should be aware of is that Methodists have itineracy, so the pastor is moved by the district and a new pastor is assigned.  So even if you adore this pastor, there might be a new pastor in a few years.  Pastorships are lasting longer now, though, about ten years, so it's not as much of a thing as it used to be.  

Something else you should be aware of is that the Methodist church is in the midst of a huge battle relating to ordination of gay/ lesbian pastors and performing same sex weddings.  It's currently not permitted, but the denomination is likely to split in the next year or two.  If you want to pm me the name of the church, I can take a look at their web site and talk to some people and find out more about the particular congregation.

[ktgrok]

58 minutes ago, staceyobu said:

 

So... we went. I'm not sure how interested you would be in engaging in a theological discussion, but...

We moved to this city four years ago. We attended one PCA church that had no children over 2nd grade. Our youngest is in 2nd. It was also a bit of a drive from our house and was hard to be in community with the people there. We left a year ago to reconsider attending somewhere the kids could plug in more. We started visiting a different PCA church that had a small youth ministry and was closer to home. It is much more contemporary than any PCA church we've ever attended. And I don't enjoy that. Since we've started attending, the 15 person youth group has dropped to about 3 (two of them are mine). They are reducing what they offer for youth since there just aren't many youth. And, I'm like, well, that sucks... because we literally came here because we wanted our kids to have something.

I was surprised by the Methodist church. It had more of the traditional, liturgical feel. The sermon was good. They have an active youth program. They have communion every week. It was small enough that I think you could know everyone, but large enough that there seemed to be a good mix of people of all ages. Our co-op meets there, so I know some of the staff and the kids are already familiar with the building. Heck, I have a set of keys, lol.

Methodist has basically been on the rock bottom of my list of places I would consider because I've always considered them to be the antithesis of everything I believe. But, my husband and I walked out and stared at each other, and were like, uhh... that was unexpected.

So, now I'm like, do we go again?

 

They said trespass! Ha!

Sometimes God's ways are not our ways, you know?

I mean, I REALLY doubt that there will be sermons on the pros and cons of predestination, etc. So if that is your theological issue, I wouldn't worry. Also, Methodism has its official beliefs, and there the actual beliefs of the Methodists in the pews. For instance, in the official teachings alcohol is frowned on. But I'd venture most Methodists in the pews have no idea that is the case. I mention that specifically because my mom attended a UMC church for a while and was concerned when she read about the alcohol thing - she has a glass of wine most nights and didn't want to be somewhere hat was a problem. But much like the Episcopal Church, the historical tenets are not always held as current doctrine as much as a way of seeing where they've come from. (obviously drunkenness would still be frowned on, as the pastor informed my mom, but he had no issue with moderation amongst the parishioners)

Honestly, if they are TEACHING something that you will feel the need to correct on a regular basis, I'd not go there. But if it is a matter of "some document somewhere says something we don't agree with, but the actual present day preaching is in line with our beliefs" and all the rest is a fit I'd stay. Sometimes different things suit us for a season, if not forever, and that's okay. 

Also, in the priority of what's most important in a church home for your family, it may be that good teaching and fellowship are going to trump doctrinal agreement right now. 

Finally,  another denomination that has a liturgical feel and often decent youth programs is the Lutheran Church. They have various branches, some more conservative than others. Just a thought. But honestly, this place seems like it may be where God wants you for now. 

[Katy]

10 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Can someone explain Arminian vs Calvinism in really simple terms?   I don’t know what I am.   What about predestination?  Is that a free will thing?   I was raised half Assembly of God and half Episcopalian.  As an adult, I’ve gone to a variety of churches.   I don’t understand some of the terms a lot of people use.  

 

Yes, it's a free will thing.  Do you choose God, or did God choose you?  Can you choose to walk away from God?  Does God cause evil directly, or does he allow it to happen as a consequence of free will?  Did God create some people solely to torture them in hell forever through no fault of their own, or does God desire everyone to be saved but they have to choose Him?  The denominations you attended fall firmly on one side of that argument, but there is actually scripture to back up both, at least if you take scripture literally.

[forty-two]

1 hour ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Can someone explain Arminian vs Calvinism in really simple terms?   I don’t know what I am.   What about predestination?  Is that a free will thing?   I was raised half Assembly of God and half Episcopalian.  As an adult, I’ve gone to a variety of churches.   I don’t understand some of the terms a lot of people use.  

 

1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

Yes, it's a free will thing.  Do you choose God, or did God choose you?  Can you choose to walk away from God?  Does God cause evil directly, or does he allow it to happen as a consequence of free will?  Did God create some people solely to torture them in hell forever through no fault of their own, or does God desire everyone to be saved but they have to choose Him?  The denominations you attended fall firmly on one side of that argument, but there is actually scripture to back up both, at least if you take scripture literally.

It is entirely possible to be neither.  Arminian-v-Calvinism only really applies to churches that came out of the Reformed branch of the Reformation (such as Presbyterian, Baptist, etc.; churches that came into being from formerly Reformed people rejecting some/all of Reformed theology (such as Arminians) nevertheless count as part of the Reformed branch of the Reformation.)  But if general you came out of one of the other three branches of the Reformation (Lutheran, Church of England, or Anabaptist (Anabaptist meaning Mennonites/Amish/etc, not Baptist)), or are Catholic/Orthodox, the Arminian/Calvinist division doesn't apply.  The Calvinist/Arminian debate is an intra-Reformed debate, and is meaningless as a way to characterise non-Reformed theology.

This link has a quick comparison of the five points of Calvinism versus the five points of Arminianism.

ETA: As far as it goes, I think AoG is more on the Arminian side, while Episcopalians are mostly "does not apply" (separate branch of the Reformation).

Edited August 26, 2019 by forty-two

[forty-two]

18 minutes ago, Danae said:

 

The Arminianism side of that link is a Calvinist straw man of Arminianism. It directly contradicts the document it claims to be citing.

Is this Wikipedia article on the Five Articles of Remonstrance better? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Articles_of_Remonstrance 

I'm Lutheran, I don't really have a dog in this fight, but fwiw I agreed with more of the Arminian points in my original link than the Calvinist ones.  I take your word for it the link was inaccurate wrt Arminians, but from an outside perspective the link's description of Arminians nevertheless seemed like something reasonable people might believe, not strawman-ish.

Edited August 26, 2019 by forty-two

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, forty-two said:

Is this Wikipedia article on the Five Articles of Remonstrance better? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Articles_of_Remonstrance 

I'm Lutheran, I don't really have a dog in this fight, but fwiw I agreed with more of the Arminian points in my original link than the Calvinist ones.  I take your word for it the link was inaccurate wrt Arminians, but from an outside perspective the link's description of Arminians nevertheless seemed like something reasonable people might believe, not strawman-ish.

Same. Straw man or not, it still seemed to me the way more acceptable opinion, lol. 

[TravelingChris]

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

UMC churches always have the best youth groups and pumpkin patches in Florida...but that's probably not helpful. 

We were UMC in Florida and the youth program was a big reason. The nearby PCUSA church, much bigger, didn't even call us when my youngest broke her leg in VBS plus they were not very friendly in church either.