Handling a disrespectful office environment

[lynn]

Quite honestly call him on it.  No reason to put up with it.  Let him him know he stops or your leaving.  

[Pen]

53 minutes ago, lynn said:

Quite honestly call him on it.  No reason to put up with it.  Let him him know he stops or your leaving.  

 

Or, if you (@.  @MEmama have clearly already told him this, and it is getting to where you you know you sooner or later want to leave rather than put up with it (which you did express above though I am not quoting) think of ways you can practice standing up for yourself and try them out for his reaction.  Especially if you can afford to be out of work for a while looking for a new job if he fires you.  

You could try making comments back.

you could try looking shocked in front of clients, “Mr. Name, why ever are you always saying such nasty things to and about me?”

You could try talking to the man who’s known him whether part time employee, customer, or other

you could up it to packing up your personal belongings and taking them home

Then up it to walking out and telling him if he wants to stop the crap and keep you as and employee call you and let you know- you’ll give him one (1) ☝️ last chance.  Otherwise you’re done.

 

Or etc etc 

You could consider it practice for yourself in learning to deal with such a jerk. 

Maybe it could even become fun. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

When he says one of the mean things, say "If you want me to quit, keep talking."  I did something like this once, and the comments stopped.  And I was serious.  I would have walked.  I am a firm believer in knowing your worth.

Edited July 24, 2019 by perkybunch

[TechWife]

17 hours ago, EKS said:

I'm curious how you know that your boss would never treat a man the way he's treating you if it's just you and him in the office?  

Some people really do show affection by teasing.  Since you don't give examples (and it's impossible to convey tone and backstory through the internet) it's hard to tell whether that is what is going on here.  

 

 

A boss who appreciates and likes his employees treats them with dignity and respect, not teasing or bullying. The teasing is not professional, no matter what the motivation. If that's the only way the boss has of communicating he appreciates his employee, the boss has a problem and it isn't up to the employee to figure out how to deal with it. It's up to the boss to control his tongue.

[Pen]

23 minutes ago, perkybunch said:

When he says one of the mean things, say "If you want me to quit, keep talking." 

 

 

I like this one!

  Maybe practice it and role play with it so you’ll be ready to say it as soon as he makes his next comment. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Pen

[TechWife]

16 hours ago, mmasc said:

I’m sorry. That really sucks. 😞 Could you give us an example of what he says in front of people? Does he act like that when it’s just the two of you? Has he done it since day 1? I think these answers will tell you if he will stop or if a frank conversation would help or not. 

ETA: I don’t handle teasing well and it makes me quite uncomfortable. 

 

14 hours ago, Selkie said:

I agree, examples would be helpful. It's hard to know what to advise without more information.

 

The OP has given us quite a lot of information about her impressions of her boss and how his actions affect her. That is all we need to know. We are not entitled to more information that the OP is willing to share. It may not be beneficial to the OP to recount examples in this context. Recounting abusive/bullying encounters re-traumatizes the abused/bullied. Unless you are a licensed counselor in a therapeutic setting, it's inappropriate to ask such questions. The OP set a boundary and  we need to respect that boundary. If you feel you don't have a thorough enough understanding of how to advise the OP, then it's fine to simply offer to empathetic support and not take on the role of advisor.

[Pen]

27 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

I like this one!

  Maybe practice it and role play with it so you’ll be ready to say it as soon as he makes his next comment. 

 

I especially like @perkybunch’s reply because it can fit after nearly anything he might say . You don’t need to think of a witty appropriate come back on your feet.  

It may stop him. It may not. Either way you will get the experience of standing up for yourself. 

I wonder if having a packing box/carry bag  for your personal things (if any) on your desk might help.  Both literally for if / when you need to walk out you can pack up more easily.  And maybe as a hint to him that you are at the end of your tolerance. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Pen

[Selkie]

32 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

 

The OP has given us quite a lot of information about her impressions of her boss and how his actions affect her. That is all we need to know. We are not entitled to more information that the OP is willing to share. It may not be beneficial to the OP to recount examples in this context. Recounting abusive/bullying encounters re-traumatizes the abused/bullied. Unless you are a licensed counselor in a therapeutic setting, it's inappropriate to ask such questions. The OP set a boundary and  we need to respect that boundary. If you feel you don't have a thorough enough understanding of how to advise the OP, then it's fine to simply offer to empathetic support and not take on the role of advisor.

Geez, I really appreciate the lecture...that's lovely of you.

I was asking for a bit more information because the OP had people advising her to sue, when she hadn't given enough information for anyone to even know if that is a valid option. I'm sure if the OP didn't want to share more, she wouldn't have.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Selkie

[TechWife]

Just now, Selkie said:

Geez, I really appreciate the lecture...that's lovely of you.

I was asking for a bit more information because the OP had people advising her to sue, when she hadn't given enough information for anyone to even know if that was a valid option. I'm sure if the OP didn't want to share more, she wouldn't have.

 

You're welcome 😉.

[EKS]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

A boss who appreciates and likes his employees treats them with dignity and respect, not teasing or bullying. The teasing is not professional, no matter what the motivation. If that's the only way the boss has of communicating he appreciates his employee, the boss has a problem and it isn't up to the employee to figure out how to deal with it. It's up to the boss to control his tongue.

I agree that it isn't professional, but my point was that it may be originating in a place that is less negative than the OP thinks it is.  The OP's example of his comment of something to the effect of "I do all of the work around here while she loafs" could be interpreted as him saying that he knows that she is keeping the operation together.  Of course, I don't know that, since I don't know him and can't hear his tone and a whole slew of other things.  But it truly could be his way of giving the OP an, albeit misguided, compliment.

I have had friends, coworkers, bosses where this was a standard mode of interacting.  Since it is almost impossible to offend me, I have taken it in stride and given it right back.  I enjoy it.  My point here is that such an environment isn't automatically toxic, and people who engage in this sort of communication aren't necessarily being bullies.  

That said, the situation obviously isn't working for the OP, so she either needs to say something or move on.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, perkybunch said:

When he says one of the mean things, say "If you want me to quit, keep talking."  I did something like this once, and the comments stopped.  And I was serious.  I would have walked.  I am a firm believer in knowing your worth.

I did walk. I was tired of being used as a scapegoat for his idiocy. The man was fired less than six months later too while I got a 100% raise with a new employer. Win-win.

[Sneezyone]

51 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Geez, I really appreciate the lecture...that's lovely of you.

I was asking for a bit more information because the OP had people advising her to sue, when she hadn't given enough information for anyone to even know if that is a valid option. I'm sure if the OP didn't want to share more, she wouldn't have.

 

There were a series of steps before sue so, yeah, not that simple. There’s no information she could give that would change the SEQUENCE of steps I proposed.

[Sneezyone]

28 minutes ago, EKS said:

I agree that it isn't professional, but my point was that it may be originating in a place that is less negative than the OP thinks it is.  The OP's example of his comment of something to the effect of "I do all of the work around here while she loafs" could be interpreted as him saying that he knows that she is keeping the operation together.  Of course, I don't know that, since I don't know him and can't hear his tone and a whole slew of other things.  But it truly could be his way of giving the OP an, albeit misguided, compliment.

I have had friends, coworkers, bosses where this was a standard mode of interacting.  Since it is almost impossible to offend me, I have taken it in stride and given it right back.  I enjoy it.  My point here is that such an environment isn't automatically toxic, and people who engage in this sort of communication aren't necessarily being bullies.  

That said, the situation obviously isn't working for the OP, so she either needs to say something or move on.

 

It may not be automatically toxic to you. Those behaviors may, in fact, be excellent examples of toxicity under US law for someone else. Whether you feel a strain doesn’t in any way impact someone else’s reality. Intent is irrelevant. The OP needs to trust her own feelings b/c they’re all that really matters.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Sneezyone

[EKS]

12 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It may not be automatically toxic to you. Those behaviors may, in fact, be excellent examples of toxicity under US law for someone else. Whether you feel a strain doesn’t in any way impact someone else’s reality. Intent is irrelevant. The OP needs to trust her own feelings b/c they’re all that really matters.

I know--that was my point--that such a situation is not necessarily always toxic.

Intent actually is relevant.  A lot of the problems we have in our current national discourse seem to be occurring because people have lost the ability to extend grace where intent is concerned.  

And even though you didn't quote it, I ended that post with the sentence: "That said, the situation obviously isn't working for the OP, so she either needs to say something or move on."

Edited July 24, 2019 by EKS

[Sneezyone]

20 minutes ago, EKS said:

I know--that was my point--that such a situation is not necessarily always toxic.

Intent actually is relevant.  A lot of the problems we have in our current national discourse seem to be occurring because people have lost the ability to extend grace where intent is concerned.  

And even though you didn't quote it, I ended that post with the sentence: "That said, the situation obviously isn't working for the OP, so she either needs to say something or move on."

 

See, and I disagree. I believe there are a lot of problems in our national discourse because many people cannot bring themselves to agree that ANYTHING is objectively beyond the pale WRT how we treat and talk about others. Laws help codify right/wrong for those who have difficulty with boundaries. Grace isn't something that can be expected or demanded. It's either freely given or it's not. It isn't an entitlement.

[EKS]

25 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

See, and I disagree. I believe there are a lot of problems in our national discourse because many people cannot bring themselves to agree that ANYTHING is objectively beyond the pale WRT how we treat and talk about others. Laws help codify right/wrong for those who have difficulty with boundaries. Grace isn't something that can be expected or demanded. It's either freely given or it's not. It isn't an entitlement.

I agree with this as well.  

My point is that human interactions are complex.  We can give others grace AND we can decide as a society that certain things are always wrong.

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, EKS said:

I agree with this as well.  

My point is that human interactions are complex.  We can give others grace AND we can decide as a society that certain things are always wrong.

 

I don't think we're that far apart. I agree with what you said too. I just don't think it's appropriate to shame or ask someone else to extend grace. I can/could extend grace once, you may do so every time. I just don't think that's an appropriate call to make for someone else. In my own instances of workplace harassment (age 16 and age 27), I initially thought grace would end the behavior. It did not. As an adult, I refused to extend grace and have zero regrets. While I didn't tell anyone how I'd been berated behind the scenes for not making him look good enough (an impossibility if ever there was one), I did not shy away from letting his bosses know, when they asked, why I could not be persuaded to stay. No 'regerts'.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Sneezyone

[EKS]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

I don't think we're that far apart. I agree with what you said too. I just don't think it's appropriate to shame or ask someone else to extend grace. I can/could extend grace once, you may do so every time. I just don't think that's an appropriate call to make for someone else. 

I never asked or expected (or shamed!) the OP or anyone else to extend grace.  My comments about grace were in regard to a wider phenomenon I see happening with our national discourse.  Regarding the OP's situation, I said that it "obviously isn't working for the OP, so she either needs to say something or move on."

[MEmama]

5 hours ago, perkybunch said:

When he says one of the mean things, say "If you want me to quit, keep talking."  I did something like this once, and the comments stopped.  And I was serious.  I would have walked.  I am a firm believer in knowing your worth.

I REALLY like this! 

If he catches me in a snarky mood I just might use it. :)

Honestly, this is not an abusive or sue-worthy situation,  it just makes me deeply uncomfortable and angry that he feels entitled to belittle me--especially in front of others, who then usuallly run with it. Some people can handle that sort of banter just fine, but I am not one of them. I've put up with this for a year and a half, and for most of that time I've tuned him out. But I'm getting to a breaking point now, so I (correctly) came her for the awesome, knowledgeable advice I knew I get. Thank you to everyone and for every response. I wish I had time to respond to each comment! 

It's been worse, honestly. I've learned to avoid all personal conversation with him and keep close guard of my words so he can't use them to further belittle me. He knows nothing at all about my life (kind of weird when it's only the two of us in the office); it frustrates him but I keep all communication with him professional and on point. 

I don't need the job and I could find another one as it suits me, but I do like it and I don't want to burn bridges. That said, if I threaten to walk, I will. 

I think I'll make a habit of practicing my "lines" on my work every morning, just in case. :)

[gardenmom5]

14 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

You can be a bully and also be sexist.  The two conditions are not mutually exclusive. 

The OP wasn't asking us to decide whether or not this man's actions were sexist.  She asked for advice on how to handle the situation.  I'm going to assume that she is enough of an authority on her own life experiences to know whether or not she is being treated in a sexist manner or not.  There's a phrase that I have heard again and again in internet advice forums: "Assume a context of abuse", meaning that if someone tells you "This situation is abusive/toxic/sexist/unhealthy and I need help", don't undermine them; believe them.   It costs us nothing to believe them and offer commiseration and advice.    

this is true - however, just because he's a bully doesn't mean he's also a sexist.  we dont' have enough information.

while they can be comorbid - they can also be independent.

[Tanaqui]

We don't, but the OP has that context and I doubt any of us will meaningfully change our advice if he's not also sexist.

[Pen]

@MEmama  What Would Aristotle Do by Elliot Cohen might be a help as you are figuring out your course of action

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

We don't, but the OP has that context and I doubt any of us will meaningfully change our advice if he's not also sexist.

it doesn't change the advice - but it does change the attitude  from "i'm being bullied because I'm female" to "this guy is a bully/jerk" (re; it's NOT about the person being bullied)

frankly - I don't consider myself a victim because I'm female - and that's how I raised my daughters.   (that has benefited 1dd especially - she's in a male dominated field.)

then again - the two most influential women in my life were my source of misery in my childhood.  (it was with great glee when I reached the point of telling my grandmother what she could do with her opinion)  it was men that treated me with love and respect.

[ktgrok]

I'd say, "Not funny." Then go back to work. Each time say, "That's not funny." Kind of ruins the joke for him. 

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

this is true - however, just because he's a bully doesn't mean he's also a sexist.  we dont' have enough information.

while they can be comorbid - they can also be independent.

 

The debate isn't whether or not he's a sexist.  It's how to help the OP in a difficult situation. 

 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

it doesn't change the advice - but it does change the attitude  from "i'm being bullied because I'm female" to "this guy is a bully/jerk" (re; it's NOT about the person being bullied)

frankly - I don't consider myself a victim because I'm female - and that's how I raised my daughters.   (that has benefited 1dd especially - she's in a male dominated field.)

then again - the two most influential women in my life were my source of misery in my childhood.  (it was with great glee when I reached the point of telling my grandmother what she could do with her opinion)  it was men that treated me with love and respect.

 

There's a lot to unpack with this statement I bolded.  I'm trying hard not to derail the OP's thread, but I have to throw out there that woman are victimized because they weren't "raised right".  That's not at all how sexism works.  

[Tanaqui]

6 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

it doesn't change the advice - but it does change the attitude  from "i'm being bullied because I'm female" to "this guy is a bully/jerk" (re; it's NOT about the person being bullied)

frankly - I don't consider myself a victim because I'm female - and that's how I raised my daughters.   (that has benefited 1dd especially - she's in a male dominated field.)

then again - the two most influential women in my life were my source of misery in my childhood.  (it was with great glee when I reached the point of telling my grandmother what she could do with her opinion)  it was men that treated me with love and respect.

 

So nobody is saying the bolded. Literally nobody.