If you had to start all over again with math . . .

[TracyR]

If I had to do it over I would of either continued with Saxon math or have used Math U See or Christian Light math.

I have Math U See now for damage control and it seems to be working well right now.

I do think that understanding how math works is important but knowing those facts before learning to understand seems to me way more important first.

[Tiramisu]

I'm almost afraid to look at more math programs. I just had it in my mind that I wouldn't look and we wouldn't switch just b/c I thought something was better. The grass is always greener on the other side, kwim? CLE sounds intruiging to me. Saxon was too long and drawn out for us. But if CLE is like Saxon "on steriods" that might just work. I've found myself lamenting that I didn't choose Abeka for 2nd grade w/ my older son this year. Less problems per page than Horizons, and he'd learn division by the end of the year. I've heard that Abeka can get really hard by 4th - 5th grade though. Thoughts, anyone?

__________________

 

If you asked this question a month or so ago, I would have said I would be happy to start again with Abeka. I have one dd using Horizons 1 and another using Abeka 3, and I preferred the Abeka. Unfortunately, things have changed recently.

 

Dd's math skills have become excellent with Abeka, and she really struggled before. I thought this would be the program I'd stay with until algebra. Then long division was introduced. She's on the young side for third grade and just remembering the five steps and when to start going through them again, and then again with the longer digits is too much for her developmentally, I think. She's usually getting the answers right but her frustration level is high. On top of that variables were introduced and in one lesson and she was supposed to understand what a variable is, solve for it given an equation with operations on both sides, and check it. It's just too many steps for her to work through without smoke coming out of her ears. Right now, she's asked to do about three of these problems with each lesson.

 

I just received a sample of a CLE 3rd grade light unit that I specifically chose to see how they introduce variables and it's much more gentle and systematic. First, it teaches what a variable is, then it has the students identify the variable. The equations are all limited to one operation. I just think it makes more sense. CLE seems to assume little and spell things out clearly right in the workbook when new concepts are introduced.

 

I also like that CLE has a lot of very basic drill incorporated in the light unit. At the end of the third grade level the timed drills are still addition and subraction. In the lesson itself are drills of the multiplication and division tables that have already been introduced, and a systematic introduction of new tables.

 

Another aspect of CLE that I like is the word problems. They include multi-step word problems at this level. There are also logic problems of the type you find in Mind Benders. It reminds me of Singapore for this reason.

 

I think I will be starting with CLE with my next one. I'm ready to make the switch with the dd using Abeka, but I need to know she's on board (because she LOVES Abeka, the color, cute pictures, etc.). I might do a trial with CLE and go from there. If dd using Horizons hit a wall at some point in the future, I know where to go but wouldn't change if all is well. KWIM?

[sagira]

Interesting thread. I'm just starting out, so it's helpful to see what other people with more experience would have done differently and try to get more insight into what's important in the early years.

 

I want to do both: take a relaxed, fun approach and yet build a solid foundation and fluency in math.

[EKS]

Two things--

 

One is that for some kids, I think true mastery takes many years. By mastery, I mean being able to do/remember something *forever* without needing to be reminded of anything. So, by 4th grade, my son had mastered addition only. Seriously. This is the same child who was 2-3 years "ahead" of grade level in math and had scores on standardized tests of 99th percentile. I was very disturbed by his lack of mastery and so a few months into 4th grade, we stopped Saxon 7/6 and started with MUS Beta. We worked through all of the MUS levels for the rest of the year going quickly through the parts he already knew well, lingering on the parts that he didn't know so well. In 5th and 6th grade, we did algebra and various arithmetic reviews, such as ALEKS. Fast forward to today, three months into 7th grade, and he is now finishing up first year algebra and he *finally* seems to reliably know how to do basic arithmetic. I think some of it has been reinforced by the algebra because he is having to think about things like fractions in more general terms. So, I guess my long winded point is that true mastery can take a long time, much longer that you might expect, and it is probably ok.

 

The second thing is that, to answer your question, if I had it to do over again (and I do, with my 6 yo) I would use a program with lots of built in review (like Saxon) along with a program that rigorously teaches concepts and offers really challenging problems (like Singapore). Singapore actually does sort of have built in review with the review pages and in that each year to some extent it spirals through the same concepts (only with bigger numbers or more complicated problems) but for many children this review isn't frequent enough. This is why, for my children, I like the Saxon approach to review.

[Beth in SW WA]

My kids know their math facts & concepts upside down & backwards from years of Saxon at private school. The daily timed tests are the key. It may seem monotonous to constantly give them, but there is a method to the madness.

 

The math facts need to be there as second nature, especially when its time for algebra.

 

My little girls will do Saxon at their classical school. We might add Singapore for a different twist, time allowing.

 

Saxon alone is an excellent program.

[Guest]

I would use a combo of TouchMath and MathMatters for elem. and MathMatters and Chalkdust for the rest. Oh wait! That is what I am doing!

[riada]

I would probably have followed the recommendations in this article, which is to say no formal arithmetic until 3rd grade (or later).

 

There are some very good points made in that article Ellie!

[mommy25]

If I had it to do over (I actually am doing it over right now teaching kindergarten... my 4th grader and 7th grader were my ginny pigs) I would definitely start with Rightstart. Getting a full grasp of the mental concepts using the abacus and math games is VERY important to mastering the math facts later on. By the third grade, using a math drill program such as Calculadder along with your main math program insures retention of the facts. My oldest two did not start with mental math and they have struggled because of it. I am amazed at what my Kindergartener is learning! I am so excited!:001_smile:

 

Note: I would not start in the middle with Rightstart - I tried that it didn't work for us.

[smg0918]

Note: I would not start in the middle with Rightstart - I tried that it didn't work for us.

 

This is my problem -- I *did* start in the middle with RightStart and it's just not working for my kids. So what program would you recommend for starting in the middle? My kids are in fourth grade but have very few math facts memorized.

[siloam]

This is my problem -- I *did* start in the middle with RightStart and it's just not working for my kids. So what program would you recommend for starting in the middle? My kids are in fourth grade but have very few math facts memorized.

 

I would recommend Singapore. They have a placement test you can use. Don't be worried if they place low. The whole program runs about a year ahead of other programs (like Horizons) and if they place even lower usually it is just a concept or two they need to have reinforced, and they race through the rest of the book to the next and are quickly caught up.

 

The other wonderful thing about Singapore is that you only have to memorize your addition and subtraction facts to 10. Because it is a base 10 program you then just turn every problem into a problem working with 1-10. For example. 141-53=? Here I think what plus 60 would make 140? Given 40 would make 100 you need another 40 to read 140 the answer is 80. So I would re-write the problem as 81+60-53=? The difference between 60 and 53 is 7, so now the problem is 81+7= 88

 

Multiplication takes a little more work, but we just cover a little every day and we are getting there.

 

Heather

 

[mommy25]

This is my problem -- I *did* start in the middle with RightStart and it's just not working for my kids. So what program would you recommend for starting in the middle? My kids are in fourth grade but have very few math facts memorized.

 

I put my fourth grader in Horizon 3. It is working very well for her. I heard that Horizon was a grade level ahead of other math programs so we are doing 3rd grade instead of 4th. Sonlight's website has samples of both grades and placement tests for this if you are interested. I did not buy the teacher manual as I felt that I could teach w/o it. Then I use Calculadder for daily math drill. I had her start at the beginning and work her way up. This has been the key to helping her memorize her facts. Horizons would not be my first choice of math programs to start out with but it works well with my dd because of where we are now. I bought Calculadder on CD and the Horizon workbooks from Rainbow Resource.

 

HTH!

[muffinmom]

I have to say up front--we're only finishing our first semester of math (1st grade). But we're using Math U See and my son is really doing well. He's not a mathy kind of kid. And for a while, I was afraid he would never remember his math facts. But as soon as we moved into subtraction, he started flying and I can see that he is starting to do the mental math. He doesn't use his blocks every time now. So far, so good.

[wide eyes & laughter]

vary widely. So I thought I'd give input.

 

I've used RightStart from the beginning and imagine that jumping in midway, even w/transitions, could be a little unnerving - for you. But for your kids, they will catch it and run with it! I have been uncomfortable w/RS a few times, as in teaching 4-digit subtraction. In fact, I had to review the RS method several times before it got into MY head. However, my ds got it no problem.

 

I love that my dc have grasped math concepts, do not 'count' but rather picture the abacus in their mind or use MANY algorithms to solve a problem. I love Dr. Cotter's emphasis on mental math - these are reasons to end up LOVING math.

 

As w/anything worthwhile, it takes work & time commitment. In the core areas (rdg, writing, and rithmetic), the extra work of laying a solid foundation will be worth it. This is my motto, at least :001_smile: And, no, I'm not saying other programs don't fit this bill.... As I said, I have no other experiences w/other programs. I am mostly sharing my experience w/RS and trying to encourage you through transitions.

 

If that doesn't work, the RS Math Games are a great supplement to any program, I've heard. And we use them fairly often - not often enough for my kids, though as they beg for games and MORE games!!

 

HTH. Good luck,

Cheryl

[Jilly]

and last year after trying numerous math programs we switched to Math-U-See. It has worked great for us. The kids like the lessons on DVD, and my son loves the blocks (although he doesn't always use them). We have been plugging away, and they are finally getting all the facts down. We are now half way through Gamma. They are still loving it, and I am seeing more improvement everyday.

[momof165]

Turn back the wheel and I'd use RightStart Math in a heartbeat. We are using their math games right now and love it - however, I am very hesitant to change a curriculum that late into our math program (3rd Grade - 2nd year Saxon user). I just wished I'd have found that program earlier. Maybe my son would do really, really great with it - but I am just such a chicken!!! :001_huh: HELP!!!

 

Sonja

__________________________________________

Homeschooling JUST ONE - ds 9

[siloam]

Turn back the wheel and I'd use RightStart Math in a heartbeat. We are using their math games right now and love it - however, I am very hesitant to change a curriculum that late into our math program (3rd Grade - 2nd year Saxon user). I just wished I'd have found that program earlier. Maybe my son would do really, really great with it - but I am just such a chicken!!! :001_huh: HELP!!!

 

Sonja

__________________________________________

Homeschooling JUST ONE - ds 9

 

Sonja,

 

I started my oldest in level B when she was 9. Now she was doing just fine with Singapore (which she has also continued to do). We do two lessons a day in RS and right now she is finishing up level C and will begin level D in January. If you really want to switch just go for it! I do recommend you start with B and just work more quickly through things rather than do transitions and jump into one of the other levels.

 

Heather

 

[hischool]

If I were to start all over again, I will not stick with a program just because it's popular. :D

[Heidi7Sue]

OK, I'm only on page 3 of this thread, but I have to add my two cents about learning styles. I say definitely try to figure out your child's/children's learning styles. But don't be discouraged when even that involves some trial and error, especially when they're young.

 

I had thought my dd5 would be a classic Perfect Paula, with maybe a bit of Wiggly Willy thrown in, just because she's young. So I expected her to like worksheets, and thought Saxon might be a good program for her. But I got MUS instead because I thought I couldn't stand Saxon, since I'm mostly Wiggly Willy, and don't have a Paula bone in my body. And MUS is still orderly, uses worksheets, and you can see progress. In reality, dd hates the worksheets, likes the manipulatives well enough, doesn't care about progress, and actually enjoys the math games that I come up with from other sources. So much for theory.

 

So we're going to get RightStart and see how that goes. Live and learn.:001_rolleyes:

[Avila]

Math is not my thing, but it is the one thing I don't think I would change if I was starting over. I picked this up from the MODG sequence, and I am pretty happy with how it works for all my kids, even though they are all three different. I think I have one Perfect Paula, one Wiggly Wilma and one Sociable Sue.

 

We do Abeka 1-3, then we switch to Saxon. For PreK/K, I have used MCP, Seton and Singapore, depending on what I picked up at the conference that year, and they were all fine. I don't like Saxon K-3, and Abeka seems to work pretty well at a very reasonable price up to this point. In third grade, the pace really picks up, and for us, it just isn't comfortable to keep using it.

 

The one thing I would change is that I wasn't using the time tests with my oldest until Saxon. My middle DD and youngest DD will both start time tests next year with Abeka because I can really see the benefits now.

[Elm in NJ]

CLE math for my oldest from grade1. He used Rod and Staff till grade 5 before I switched to CLE math 6 and 7.

[deeinfl]

but there were tears every week. He could do the work, but I knew there wasn't any real understanding going on and he was growing to hate math and tell everyone he met that he hated math.

 

We started CLE because a friend gave me some of the workbooks and we are speeding through the first grade to catch him up to where I think he needs to be.

 

There was no way he could have started where Rod and Staff left off because CLE teaches things like geometry, and other concepts that aren't taught at the second grade level in Rod and Staff.

 

What I am finding is that my son enjoys the spiral approach. He is loving doing different things every day and a different format daily. He is asking to do math first thing in the morning. So even though I thought he was a mastery learning type of child, he wasn't.

 

I wish I would have started from the very beginning, but in a sense, I have as we were 3/4ths of the way done with Rod and Staff before starting CLE and we are working our way up and testing out in the hopes of being in level 2 by the time he starts his 3rd grade in August. Since CLE seems to be at about the same level as Rod and Staff in their second grade, I am not worried. Eventually we will get to where we need to be.

 

So I would have to add another vote for CLE! It's a mix of mastery and spiral, with thinking skills, and it leads to independence in the higher grades. We love the daily speed drills, and the flashcard practice.

 

I have always had a curiosity about Moving With Math as well. I wish I would have gone for it, but we are here now and if it doesn't break, we won't fix it. :)

 

Dee

[Bayt ul-Hikmah]

I would look more closely at Living Math.

 

I am going to apply some of the theory to our homeschooling anyways, but it sure would be neat to start at K (or earlier) and used living math. :)

 

What a great resource, thank you!! I'd never heard of this before.

 

I'm just starting out homeschooling my own kids and am using (and loving!) Right Start, but Living Math looks like a great supplement to our SOTW rotation -- math in real life and historical context, wow!

[AngieW in Texas]

I would do all of Miquon Math followed by Singapore Math from 3A-6B. I would also incorporate Daily Math Practice workbooks from Evan-Moor starting at the same time as Singapore Math for any child who need more consistent review.

 

Miquon didn't work for my youngest because of her visual processing issues, but Singapore did.

[Homeschooling6]

I would use Schoolaid math for 1st & 2nd, then switch to CLE.

 

Currently I have my oldest using MUS, 2nd dc using Singapore, 3rd dc using CLE, 4th & 5th dc using Schoolaide.

 

My oldest son does not do well with a spiral math program, so MUS works well with him. My dd loves Singapore, I tried switching her to CLE but she preferred to stay with what is working.

 

Eventually I hope to have all my four younger ones switched to CLE for 3rd grade and up.

 

HTH,

[LizzyBee]

Singapore .... which is what we actually did use most.

 

I also think Ray's Arithmetic and Life of Fred are fantastic.

[BizyPenguin]

CLE! Here's why I love it:

 

It's...

Solid and traditional math

Spiral

Easy for the teacher to teach

Easy for the student to work on independently

Got drill included

Got lots of review

Not too distracting or too dry

Like a cross between R&S and Even-Moor Daily reviews

 

We love it and retention is good!!