Holiday Psychiatric advice?

[scubamama]

Ok ladies, I'm climbing up on the Psychiatrist's couch - can anyone give me advice?

I'll try to keep this brief. ;) MIL has been a major problem - calling 5x/d making up lies about me, making up stories about her health to manipulate us, BIL believes lies and sends me hate mail ( ! ) MIL makes sexually inappropriate comments to our kids, finally culminating with recommending an abortion for me b/c "why do you want more kids?!". But always swearing that she's never done any of these things (in spite of many witnesses) and doesn't understand why I am acting so mean and she only wants to know "what i want her to do". I knwo she loves the kids. I cut off contact with her outside of family gatherings for my own mental health - it's been 10 years of this and I couldn't continue. I was calm and told her that of course she can tell dh anything that she needs me to know and he'll be happy to pass it on. Well, dh has had a lifetime of this behavior and so he's sick of it too and doesn't call her back. So she starts calling people she knew 30 years ago that work where dh work and telling them to tell dh to call his "f ing" mom. I'm sure that's a real career booster!

In spite of all this non sense, I feel bad for her. I know this is my achilles heel. About 80% of the family will not even see her and hasn't seen her in years. The holidays are here. I hate for anyone to be lonely...I need advice on how to handle this. Shold I even see if dh wants to see her? If I leave it up to him we won't. I do know that she will be able to go to dh's step brother's for holidays, so she does have a place to go.

I feel for the one left out, I always have. Dh really doens't want to do anything with her and is as silent as the grave when around her, which means I have to do it all. I know it sounds like I'm setting myself up for a whole new round of craziness...should I let dh make the first move (even if he doesn't)or should I try to be a peace maker here. I am a Christian and believe in forgiveness. I am working on that daily! But I do realize that I have a responsibility to my family. I am terribly muddled! I hope that you are not, after reading this long confusing story.

I am all ears....

 

Michele

[iamrachelle]

Michelle,

 

First of all :grouphug:. I will be praying for you as you make your decision. I believe in forgiveness, however I don't think that is really the issue here. You need to ask yourself if your MIL's presence could potentially emotionally harm your children. Your obligation as a parent is to protect them . . . even if it means her being alone for the holidays.

 

Talk it over with your DH. Pray together. Share your feelings, concerns and fears with him. And then let him lead and make the right decision for your sweet family.

 

Blessings,

 

C

[TravelingChris]

I wouldn't be taking her calls. I wouldn't have anything to do with her. You say that your dh doesn't want to deal with her. Unfortunately, the state of mental health services in this country is that unless she is threatening violence to herself or others, getting help for her is very unlikely. At that point, you have to decide what to do with your dealing with the person. Protect your children, protect yourself, protect your husband. Pray for her to recognize that she needs treatment. IF you can convince her to go to a physician, I might try to do that. If not, I would start protecting my family by informing anyone she is calling, that unfortunately, my MIL is unwell and refusing treatment. I bet the co-workers already think that. Do not take her calls. Get caller ID and don'[t pick up. If you hear her voice on the answering machine, erase the message. I think that having mentally ill relatvies has got to rank up there with some of the most severe stressors there are. Get some support from your church community or your pastors.

[kalanamak]

Shold I even see if dh wants to see her? If I leave it up to him we won't. I do know that she will be able to go to dh's step brother's for holidays, so she does have a place to go.

 

 

You could ask him, but it sounds like 1) she won't be physically alone

2) He'd rather not, and trying to get him to may be crossing a line he put up years ago to protect himself

3) Anything you do isn't going to "fix" the situation

4) Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to spend the holiday with her

5) Save your energy for when she is more needy....not only to all of us grow old, people with mental illness (and it seems to be she has some) often don't handle aging very gracefully. A step over the line from carrying on like this with family to paranoid threatening of a stranger, and she might get carried off for an "evaluation". She'd need time and attention more than then this holiday season

 

Whoo-ee, I'm so sorry for you, particularly in this day and age of mood stabilizers!

[Parrothead]

I say you have to go with what your dh wants, and it sounds like he doesn't want to have anything to do with her.

 

The situation is toxic. Do you really want to expose your family to her?

[G5052]

This is mental illness, plain and simple. My own mother has been difficult for many years, but got extremely abusive last year (advancing vascular dementia was a factor). We wrote her a letter and put on call blocking. Lately we talked again because she has cancer, and I told her that on no uncertain terms that we would cut things off if she got abusive, cancer or not. I do have relatives that she can communicate with me through if need be and she is taken care of, but I will not tolerate verbal abuse being heaped upon any member of my family. My children do not need to be exposed to mental illness.

 

Think of how Jesus handled the money-changers and Pharisees. Righteous anger has it's place, and even Jesus turned his back on some people, but always for a purpose.

[scubamama]

Thanks,everyone. I guess I just think of this as "being a jerk", not so much the mental illness thing...is this a personality disorder?

I have a hard time with this since my dad was dx'd with depression - but he's spent his entire life telling me that I'm no good, won't amount to anything etc. Two months ago (after 9 months with no contact) we allowed a visit with him and my nana (92 yo) he told me that my mom never loved me...that he had a letter to prove it (she died 7 years ago). Dh and I asked him to leave. They did. I got his letter , but it had nothing to do with that. He's just a manipulator. I won't do what he wants so he makes crazy statements to upset me. It's only since this summer that I've been able to free myself of this. He tells me I'm not a real Christian since I won't forgive him and spend time with him. Too bad.

So is there a difference btween mental illness and personality disorder or is it just a question of degree of function?

[Remudamom]

I don't understand why you would even consider spending any time with her. Christian does not mean doormat.

[hornblower]

Since you're on the couch, I'll give you my diagnosis.

 

You're suffering from Norman Rockwellosis and Hallmark Greeting Cardosis.

 

These are conditions which are characterized by an irrational sentimental desire to connect with (capital F) Family.

 

Symptoms include saying 'maybe this year it will be different', 'it is family, after all' even as your logical brain catalogues abuse and emotional trauma.

 

(capital F) Family in this context has no connection to reality and is instead an abstract construct created from a variety of maudlin and mawkish sources, and often depicted in sentimental greeting card advertisements and saccharine Norman Rockwell paintings.

[hillfarm]

Discuss your feelings with your dh and follow his lead. Your primary responsibility is to him, not her. Also, even though she cares for the grandchildren, she may not be a healthy influence for them. Limit that contact to that which your dh wants and can be closely monitored. Don't run interference between her and the gc's. Tell them she is not well and that while she cares for them she may also unintentionally hurt them. Absolutely don't make excuses for her to them. Help them to understand that irrational people do incomprehensible things.

 

And by the way, my Bible cautions real Christians not to judge others and to examine (and cure) their own faults well before pointing out anyone else's. Perhaps you need to remind your df that his Bible probably contains those verses also.

 

Put a stop to all this madness. Rest in the Bible when it says that you are to cleave to your dh and that the two of you are to head your household. Don't let dishonest attempts by desperate people steal your joy and your children's happiness. Sit down right now and draft up a list of your boundaries--when you will leave MIL/DF's presence and when you will have them leave your home. List what, if any, consequences you will implement in response to unacceptable actions (I will not accept calls from them for one month, I will not invite them here for a year, etc.) Take the emotion out of the situation. Then go over it with your dh so that the two of you are on the same page. At that point, you will be much calmer and able to handle them much as you would a misbehaving child. (One warning and then it's over? Okay, Mom, I asked you not to speak like that in front of the children. If it happens again we will have to leave.)

 

And I agree with Christina. Don't stress too much about what she is telling coworkers and others. Tell them that she is unwell and refusing treatment. Encourage them to block her calls and to pray for her. I am sure they are already aware that she is not functioning normally, so your revelation will not come as any big surprise.

[scubamama]

Hornblower! I concur with your diagnosis! Why is it that I catch this disease so easily? I'll just have to follow some of the good suggestions/vacinations...

I guess I do feel sorry for her and that's why I get muddled about this. I'm pretty soft by nature....but I don't want to be a doormat!

Thanks to all for the honest advice.

 

Best,

Michele

[tibbyl]

Only portion of original post that I am addressing is the mother in law phoning employer. This must stop. Innocent employees sometimes are fired in situations like this. Immediately in writing notify employer's human resources dept. ( or security dept. if applicable) of her mental illness and request that they do whatever they can to block her from contact via workplace.

[Harriet Vane]

Please, please don't do this.

 

Follow your dh's lead. Don't engage in the drama with her--it won't change her, and it WILL continue to damage whatever may be left of her relationship with her son.

 

This is dh's mother, not yours. Don't interfere--if he doesn't want to see her or be with her, he certainly has that right.

 

If she is homeless or hungry, I would say to provide for her. But don't try to force a relationship where she has made one impossible.

 

I'm sorry.

 

:grouphug:

[G5052]

Mental Illness -- A clinically diagnosable disorder that significantly interferes with an individual’s cognitive, emotional or social abilities.

 

Notice the word SIGNIFICANTLY. Most of us are a little blue, a little crabby, and a little selfish here and there, but the overall direction is positive with decent social interactions. That does not describe your MIL.

[lllll]

This is mental illness, plain and simple. My own mother has been difficult for many years, but got extremely abusive last year (advancing vascular dementia was a factor). We wrote her a letter and put on call blocking. Lately we talked again because she has cancer, and I told her that on no uncertain terms that we would cut things off if she got abusive, cancer or not. I do have relatives that she can communicate with me through if need be and she is taken care of, but I will not tolerate verbal abuse being heaped upon any member of my family. My children do not need to be exposed to mental illness.

 

Think of how Jesus handled the money-changers and Pharisees. Righteous anger has it's place, and even Jesus turned his back on some people, but always for a purpose.

 

Yes, yes. :iagree: Similar situation with my mother, only after we changed our phone number and asked her to write letters instead (easier to deal with), she cut out all contact of her own accord. This was years ago and I noticed the other day that when I refer to her (rarely), I use the past tense, as if she's dead. Guess I mourned that loss ages ago, you could say.

 

Also, scubamama, let dh protect you and dc. That's his job. Plus, there could be other things that happened that he's not told you; thus his strong reaction. Men are like that you know. Let him lead.

 

HTH.

[kalanamak]

So is there a difference btween mental illness and personality disorder or is it just a question of degree of function?

 

The DSM manual covers both psychosis, mood disorders, and personalities disorders (and other things like drug dependence, etc). I work in a huge locked ward mental hospital, and there are certainly people with ONLY personality disorders who are in locked wards, in restraints. People who shove pens up their p*nises unless restrained and medicated. Who disembowel themselves....all for "attention", not to hurt themselves or because of voices. I call that mentally ill! In general the people with "personality traits" of the personality disorders walk the streets and have pretty normal lives even if people think them wierd or obnoxious. The disorders are just that....dis-ordered. Ill. She sounds ill.

 

You can browse through the symptoms on personality disorders on wikipedia or other sites. Some people who have bipolar express their mania through irritability, delusions, and some even get psychotic. I got just a bit of manic flavour in your description, but you could also look up borderline personality disorder, antisocial disorder.

 

Does she drink? That can make everything worse.

 

If this didn't rub off on your hubby, you are all so lucky!

 

Do look them up, as knowledge is power.

HTH

[Guest janainaz]

I'm sorry, you must speaking about MY mother. What you described is exactly how she behaves and I had to sever the ties for my own spiritual, emotional and physcial well-being - many years ago. It was the most difficult choice I ever had to make, but her behavior was abusive. I can deal with difficult people and off-color personalities, but when someone has zero respect or concern for the people around them, you eventually have to have some self-respect and respect for your own family not to allow it to continue. My mother is a complete narcissist. I love and forgive her, but she won't be around my family unless a deep change has been made. I felt so guilty - in the core of my being that I was not strong enough to deal with her, but I truly believe that God wanted me to let her go so I could become healthy. I never give up in my heart and I pray for her, but I can't fix her.

 

This sounds like a similiar type of personality and does not sound like a very healthy situation for you, your dh, or your kids.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited November 22, 2008 by janainaz

[PrairieAir]

Forgiving someone does not mean you have to subject yourself to that kind of treatment--no matter who it's from. If you feel badly about leaving her out, send her a gift and a nice letter with a family photo. I don't think an actual visit would do anyone any good.

 

If, for some reason, you do decide to visit her, leave the minute she becomes nasty or abusive. You don't deserve to be treated that way and your children should not see you allow yourself to be treated that way. You can reach out to difficult people, be kind to them, forgive them, etc. without allowing them to mistreat you.

[scubamama]

Sigh. It the "remorse" seh shows when we / I see her that gets me - the "I just want to make it right between us, don't you?" and the "I never said that, how could you beleive I would do that?!" All said with such a sad expression. "Those children are the world to me!" That's what twists me - I'm torn between shock that someone could say that so convincingly when it's not true and feeling sorry for her when she basically alienated herself from us and many others this way. I know I am a softie. I always doubt myself and try again - and she's good for a while. I guess I feel like since we've been so drastic with not talking to her since June she'll be good. But the odds are against us...I will leave it to dh. Not sure if I will look up info - it might make me too depressed. I tend to think that some "mental illnesses" are just pure selfishness given a label to make it a "condition" - as in "I can't help it! I have X diagnosis" That's what my dad did / does and I think he's just a jerk, but that's not in the DSM manual!

I'm a RN and I've seen many folks with assorted Mental Illnesses over the years - including time as a student in the state hospital locked ward!:scared:

Since she's not that bad I guess I just wanted to get some opinions on what to do. I really appreciate all the honest advice...it's easy to feel like I'm the only one with a family member this way. Thank You all.

[TraceyS/FL]

My MIL isn't htat bad - yet.

 

We live 3,000 miles away, and apparently she doesn't think that i was a 3rd generation member of that town - and she's a newbie, and spreads lies about me around town. Like my family & friends won't find out? My Dh refuses to think his precious Mom could ever do & say such a thing. :glare:

 

Anyway, i would keep not doing anything - especially since you have your DHs support, my relationship with mine would be so different if he supported me instead of her/them.

 

Gee, i'm ranting/hijacking - sorry.....

[kalanamak]

I tend to think that some "mental illnesses" are just pure selfishness given a label to make it a "condition" - as in "I can't help it! I have X diagnosis"

 

I actually find most patients adamantly claim they don't have a mental illness, but that the label helps the rest of us cope, and also communicate to one another, in short hand, just what we are dealing with.

 

Borderline, it says on the admission sheet? Put up you alert button for someone who is going to treat everyone else horribly, but smile sincerely at you and say "only you understand me" and then want to you to circumvent everyone else for their benefit because of your special role.

 

That is how labels can help.

[G5052]

I actually find most patients adamantly claim they don't have a mental illness, but that the label helps the rest of us cope, and also communicate to one another, in short hand, just what we are dealing with.

 

Borderline, it says on the admission sheet? Put up you alert button for someone who is going to treat everyone else horribly, but smile sincerely at you and say "only you understand me" and then want to you to circumvent everyone else for their benefit because of your special role.

 

That is how labels can help.

 

Labels are indeed beneficial. Over the last few years I was the only one in my family that would actually talk about my mother's dementia. Everyone else made excuses for her or would act like how she behaved was normal. When she repeatedly put other people's lives at risk with her driving, it was the same thing. Everyone else denied it. Then they diagnosed small vessel disease with vascular dementia after her license was at last suspended, and finally, a year later, my family can talk about my mom's dementia. My brother and her sister are actually thinking through how to handle her rages and black-outs when they occur. They no longer expect her to remember things. Amazing!