9th grade recommendations with no honors or AP classes

[LAR]

I'm not sure what I did to my girl for 8th grade this year, but it's been our most challenging.  She went from having an incredible 7th grade year to a lackluster 8th grade year.  She even received an incomplete for a one semester course this past fall.  I'm looking to change it up for 9th grade - perhaps less online classes and definitely no honors or AP classes.   She does not like to read so this also puts me in a bind.  Oh, and one more caveat, we need secular curriculum.  

I'm struggling to come up with a plan where she'll meet basic core requirements and yet be happy and successful.  She's currently taking:  geometry; ancient history; 5 paragraph essay writing; latin/greek roots; asl 3; and general science.  (All classes and teachers are truly fantastic . . . I'd give each a 100% recommendation, but she's feeling overwhelmed with a full lineup of live online classes.)  

Any thoughts from those of you with a child who does not want a plate full of AP classes for 9th grade?   

[2_girls_mommy]

I have a 9th grader that will never do AP or Honors. She is gifted in art, so we focus a lot of energy on that. She is today working on her entry form for the HSLDA art contest. She won 2nd place in an art/essay contest at a state history museum and had her work and paper displayed for Women's History month in 6th grade, and we enter the state fair and take several out of the house plus online art classes. So the only AP we might consider at some point would be art, and knowning me, I'd be more likely to DE an art history class than go the AP route. 

So her 9th grade has gone like this, and it is right on track for her: 

PreAlgebra (leaving her three more high school years to get through Alg. 2 before graduation.)  Rod and Staff

Physical Science with labs- co-op class

plus on our own- our own way of studying Biology through reading, notebooking, hands on and field trips. This isn't her offical Biology year, but it has turned out to be a topic of interest for us, so we are starting on our own already. Don't know how her official year of Biology will go- likely a co-op class, but if not, we will figure out a plan. But we are enjoying kind of unschooling through this and meeting some of the requirements on our own for now. 

Art I- lots going on here: entries for state fair took up the first month of school year, plus we visited the National Gallery in D.C.  Then we started an online unit study Studio Art class at home, and she started a co-op class that emphasizes skills in several areas. She has done some amazing projects there. And we have taken a two hour acrylic classes from a local artist this year that we go to sometimes. Currently she is working in several different media.

World History- Renaissance- WTM logic stage style, transitioning into rhetoric style- she still uses the middle school KHE and outlining and timeline book and occasional summary, but we are adding in context pages for lit paper with the high school level encyclopedia and timeline book. I am not having her read the History of the Renaissance World this year. She will get through Am. History then move into the History of series her junior and senior year. 

English 1, she works from a variety of sources- lit readings from WTM with response papers, slowly working through WWS1, a couple of different spelling books as she has dyslexia and we work more with methods we have learned than a specific curriculum, Thinking Tree journals and Dyslexia Games materials, and from Rod and Staff English. I think we are using the 7th grade book this year, plus family read alouds and Bible Study. 

Latin I- Finishing up Third Form and studying for the NLE I. 

PE- outsourced. 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by 2_girls_mommy

[RootAnn]

I'd ask yourself what you don't feel comfortable teaching and what she won't be able to do effectively without you. That is what you'll want to outsource (former) and what you will want to be very hands-on about (latter).

Then, think about what she needs to cover as far as credits and add in time for her passions if she has any (plus volunteering or activities). Think about what can be a more relaxed credit or on-her-own. The list you can come up with after this reflection will help you determine what you need.

[LAR]

She does enjoy her volunteer work:  3 hours/week costume department at a community theater and 1 1/2 hours/week teaching yoga for second graders at a local public school. I've wanted to pull these from her schedule because she's getting behind in core subjects.  I also don't give her "credit" for this time; I just list these as extra curricular activities.   But theater and yoga are her passions.  In fact, she's currently spending 5 plus hours a day at the theater for an upcoming musical.  

I'm personally struggling with the fact that traditional core subjects are no longer her focus, and I need to adjust her academic schedule next year to integrate passions with core requirements. Right now, core is being pushed aside and I know this can't happen in 9th grade. 

 

[Momto6inIN]

I wouldn't pull her passions unless you are looking forward a student who balks and gives you constant problems about their schoolwork 🙃 Letting kids spend time on their passions is one of the best benedits of hs'ing!

It also sounds like she's doing just fine on core requirements - if she's currently in Geometry and is learning how to write an essay then she's well prepared for high school work. 

I agree that 5 outsourced classes sound like they are the cause of the energy drain. That's a a lot of outside accountability and commitment! My older high schoolers could not handle that kind of load, although I know some thrive on it. How long is she spending on school each day? My kids spend about 6 hours per day, some days a little more, on their assigned subjects. That leaves a lot of extra time for passions! My current 11th and 9th graders have no plans for APs, although my oldest did because in his case academics *were* his passion.

Like RootAnn said, I would pick a couple (like 1 or 2 at the most) subjects I really didn't feel like I could handle myself to outsource and then figure out how to make the other subjects work.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, what does your DD want to study next year and what would she like those subjects to look like? I've found involving my teens in their course planning and selection has been a huge help in getting them motivated and excited about their learning.

[JazzyMom]

My oldest eased into high school during freshman year, and it wasn’t stressful or time-consuming at all.

Math - Saxon Geometry

English - Writing with Skill

History - Literature based course

Biology - local science teacher

Fine Arts - piano

Athletics - competitive basketball

No AP, honors, or online courses.

Your dd’s theater involvement could count for a Fine Arts credit and Yoga could count for PE.  Then you’d just add in 4 core subjects.  You could also do one course over the summer to free up time during the school year.

[2_girls_mommy]

28 minutes ago, LAR said:

She does enjoy her volunteer work:  3 hours/week costume department at a community theater and 1 1/2 hours/week teaching yoga for second graders at a local public school. I've wanted to pull these from her schedule because she's getting behind in core subjects.  I also don't give her "credit" for this time; I just list these as extra curricular activities.   But theater and yoga are her passions.  In fact, she's currently spending 5 plus hours a day at the theater for an upcoming musical.  

I'm personally struggling with the fact that traditional core subjects are no longer her focus, and I need to adjust her academic schedule next year to integrate passions with core requirements. Right now, core is being pushed aside and I know this can't happen in 9th grade. 

 

In my book, there is a fine arts credit there for sure, and possibly PE depending on how much she does. I forgot piano on my dd's that we do for music as well. I will award credit for these things. She puts in the hours. Extra curriculars for us this year are her extra volunteer hours at her dance studio on top of her classes, scouting with her troop, The Advisory League she applied to and was accepted into at scouts, and the Astronomy Club she joined, plus church youth activities and volunteer hours there. 

[RootAnn]

Let's see what this looks like:

Fine Arts credit - 1/2-1 credit Costume Design/Drama/Theater Arts

P.E. - 1/2 credit

Now, she'll need the core 4 (math, science, social studies, English) and she might want to think about adding a foreign language.

Math - Algebra 2? (1 credit)

Science - ?? (1 credit)

You say she doesn't like to read, so I would consider using The Great Courses (check if they are available from your library or consider a Great Courses Plus subscription) for your history in combo with some primary source reading. Does she want to continue world history chronologically or do a one year World History overview or spend some time on Geography or US History? (Lots of options here.)

You could integrate your writing & literature with history or separate them. Lit could be a special emphasis on plays (so you could watch them, i.e., not as much reading), for example or you could use the Movies As Literature to dive into lit analysis.

What foreign language is she thinking?

[GoodGrief]

That's a lot of online classes with deadlines to meet! The dislike of reading does make this a little tougher, but not impossible.

Teaching Textbooks might be a great option for math, as it is so straightforward. If she struggles with math, I would not hesitate to incorporate work with a tutor.

Somewhere on the WTM site is a US History plan that someone put together using videos and some library books. We used it and liked it, but can't find it now. I'm thinking you could do something like that on your own for any social studies area by simply enough by picking some topics and finding materials that fit your student's learning style. Thinkwell has a US Government curric that is computer based and labeled AP, but is really not high pressure at all.

We used Plato high school science in the middle school years, but I think it would be an adequate get-er-done option for some students. It's computer-based with graphics and interesting visuals. The Homeschool Buyers Co-op has a deal on it. You could always add a lab kit for whatever subject area you choose (they have all the basics: biology, chemistry, physics, etc.)

Write at Home curric would come with deadlines, but without scheduled meeting times. It might be a good language arts option for working on her writing. You could add a book a month, or something similar to work in some reading, though honestly, she does lots of reading in theater.  Maybe coordinate the reading with science or social studies coursework. Public speaking or debate would go along with her interests too, and maybe there'd a Toastmasters Club locally that she could try.

Maybe a Rosetta Stone or some sort of immersive foreign language experience for another "get 'er done" class? The goal could be exposure more than mastery, though if languages interest her, you could get hard core.

PE: perhaps a low key sport that interests her. Dance classes would go along nicely with theater. Fencing would too!

I had a theater kid too. It's not a schedule that's compatible with tons of online classes.

Edited January 28, 2019 by GoodGrief

[LAR]

RootAnn, she’s currently taking her third year of ASL. So either ASL 4 next year or I’d prefer Spanish.   I thought Spanish Homeschool Academy - live one on one class. Again another online class. 

I never considered giving credit for her extras but several of you make valid points. And this would help her a ton. 

She’ll take algebra 2 with Mr D for sure.  

I like the idea of Great Courses. 

Goodgrief1, she also dances. Last year it was 10 hours a week.  We’ve cut that down because theater picked up. She’ll add in more during the spring.  I’ll look at Plato. Thanks 

[RootAnn]

@LAR Sorry! My eyes skipped over the ASL when I was typing up that reply. I remember now seeing ASL3.

So, you're set for math next year (Mr. D) and ASL4 or HSA. (HSA doesn't give much homework, so her time commitment would be two hours of class and maybe another hour or two of homework a week at most.)

Does she have a preference for which science? She could do Biology or algebra-based physics (Derek Owens is not a live class, but it is pretty math heavy. There are other options, though.) Do you have a desire to teach her science?

[LAR]

RootAnn, I'm able to teach her science.  I just feel more secure when I outsource classes for high school credit.  It's not that I'm unsure of my ability, it's that I want to present a high school transcript that demonstrates my child's ability to handle third party classes with a professional and I serve as the counselor....not the teacher.  Perhaps I've been too hung up over this idea. 

[teachermom2834]

7 minutes ago, LAR said:

RootAnn, I'm able to teach her science.  I just feel more secure when I outsource classes for high school credit.  It's not that I'm unsure of my ability, it's that I want to present a high school transcript that demonstrates my child's ability to handle third party classes with a professional and I serve as the counselor....not the teacher.  Perhaps I've been too hung up over this idea. 

I am a big outsourcer but I just want to speak to this. I would not outsource just for purposes of a transcript. If you are comfortable teaching and your child does not enjoy online classes, I would not feel I needed that for a transcript. I have two kids in college now and I didn’t indicate 3rd party course providers anywhere on the transcript (except de as official transcripts get sent from the college). I do realize different colleges want different things but mine applied to 16 colleges between them and none gave a flip about an online course provider. 

Just saying that before you head down a road of taking online classes that don’t really fit your needs, make sure your concern about 3rd party verification is a legitimate one for the colleges your dd plans to apply to. Four years of high school is a long time to take classes you don’t really want especially in an online format. Likewise, I think traditional homeschooling in early high school followed by some de junior year would likely be enough outside verification that your dd is ready for college work. I don’t even think that absolutely necessary, just an option. 

My two cents...just make sure you are not overthinking this and making it harder, more expensive, and less flexible than it could be. My 10th grader has all his classes online but that is because it is what he wants and what he enjoys. But the transcript is just going to say “Geometry”. I don’t plan to include any 3rd party information unless course descriptions are needed (which they have not yet been for my kids).

[LAR]

Thanks, I definitely appreciate your two cents, teachermom2834.  I do spend a ton on outsourcing. Our oldest has always wanted these live online classes but now with our younger daughter, I'm learning that the fit may not be ideal.  Guess it's a good thing I'm figuring things out now in 8th grade before she starts high school. 

[RootAnn]

Dp  (left second one as it had a link)

Edited January 29, 2019 by RootAnn
Double post

[Momto6inIN]

1 hour ago, LAR said:

RootAnn, I'm able to teach her science.  I just feel more secure when I outsource classes for high school credit.  It's not that I'm unsure of my ability, it's that I want to present a high school transcript that demonstrates my child's ability to handle third party classes with a professional and I serve as the counselor....not the teacher.  Perhaps I've been too hung up over this idea. 

My oldest had exactly one course taught by someone other than me (or himself) - DE Statistics as a senior. The rest was all at home. He did some AP courses, but it was all self study. He was still accepted into Purdue's CS program, which is very competitive. They didn't give a flip about outside providers, they cared about his test scores and abilities. I provided a transcript with detailed course descriptions, but I'm not convinced anybody read them. I think us moms on these boards care way more about course descriptions than any admissions counselor does, TBH.

If your kids thrive on outsourced classes, and you have the funds, then by all means have at it. But I honestly don't think it makes a difference on a transcript who provided the class.

[RootAnn]

I, too, have an eldest who thrives on outside classes followed by a child who doesn't. (Dd#2 took one live online class in 8th grade and requested to never do so again. She doesn't like most live in person classes either.)

I agree with @teachermom2834 that it isn't necessary to outsource everything or even most things to show colleges your kid can handle what college will throw at them. (See 8Filltheheart's many posts on this topic and she's got street cred.)

IMO, only outsource what you need to. If you can teach these subjects, go for it!

There are a whole slew of threads on this linked in one of the motherload posts, but here is just one.

[Farrar]

I think the current culture in homeschool circles is encouraging people to think they must outsource. If you want to outsource or it's right for you, do it. If you don't want to, don't.

In a general sense, one gap in the marketplace right now in online classes (other than math, which seems to have a lot more options for different budgets and levels) does seem to be "regular" high school classes. There are some, but so many things are geared toward honors level kids or are AP offerings.

[2_girls_mommy]

2 hours ago, Momto5inIN said:

My oldest had exactly one course taught by someone other than me (or himself) - DE Statistics as a senior. The rest was all at home. He did some AP courses, but it was all self study. He was still accepted into Purdue's CS program, which is very competitive. They didn't give a flip about outside providers, they cared about his test scores and abilities. I provided a transcript with detailed course descriptions, but I'm not convinced anybody read them. I think us moms on these boards care way more about course descriptions than any admissions counselor does, TBH.

If your kids thrive on outsourced classes, and you have the funds, then by all means have at it. But I honestly don't think it makes a difference on a transcript who provided the class.

We obviously haven't started any college apps or had anyone to show our transcripts and course descriptions to yet, as odd is only a junior, but from talking to friends who have graduated kids, the colleges have only wanted to see course names and grades. 

We are enrolled in a state scholarship program for low income kids that pays for college in our state. We obviously have hoop jumping to go through there. Our transcripts and GPAs and ACT scores have to line op with their requirements. But honestly, all they ask for is the name of course and grade, and that is the most reporting to anyone I have ever had to do so far. They don't ask how I arrived at that score. 

[Arcadia]

4 hours ago, LAR said:

  It's not that I'm unsure of my ability, it's that I want to present a high school transcript that demonstrates my child's ability to handle third party classes with a professional and I serve as the counselor....not the teacher.  

 

I actually go with picking an outsourced class for math/science and one for humanities because summer programs and similar stuff tend to ask for a teacher recommendation. So to be able to check that box and because my kids do like someone else teaching them for some stuff, I get a tutor for one of their humanities subject and they take online classes in math/science. My kids are weaker in humanities so a tutor is more beneficial than a class. I find that summer programs do not need a credentialed teacher to fill up the portion on whether the child meets the requirements so an experienced tutor is fine.

I figured some DE classes and/or AP/SAT/ACT scores would be sufficient to validate mommy grades.

[GoodGrief]

6 hours ago, LAR said:

RootAnn, I'm able to teach her science.  I just feel more secure when I outsource classes for high school credit.  It's not that I'm unsure of my ability, it's that I want to present a high school transcript that demonstrates my child's ability to handle third party classes with a professional and I serve as the counselor....not the teacher.  Perhaps I've been too hung up over this idea. 

I'm not sure that colleges are much more impressed with grades from outsourced courses, unless they are very familiar with the provider.

Arcadia does make a good point above about doing a couple of classes to have a ready teacher's reference (junior year would be ideal for that, so the reference is fresh.)

Some testing can also provide validation, if that's your goal.

I wouldn't stress too much about the validation part yet, as a lot can happen during high school. Every single year of my theater kid's high school experience had a new twist! Get her through freshman year.

[crazyforlatin]

I haven't gone through the college process yet, but having gone through a mini version with high school applications, every single place wanted a math/science teacher letter and humanities teacher letter. None of them would accept a parent letter. Even the local public school took the letters for evaluation. I did prepare in advance even though it's just high school. I went with an English teacher whom we've had before and enrolled in a higher level class with her and AoPS math. And course, our very own Dicentra wrote a letter for DD too. It's something that I’m going to keep in mind during 11th grade if we continue homeschooling in HS. Ideally, the teacher would have had at least a year getting to know DD, but maybe even a completed semester class where the class is small and the teacher/student interaction is high could be enough. 

[Momto6inIN]

16 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

I actually go with picking an outsourced class for math/science and one for humanities because summer programs and similar stuff tend to ask for a teacher recommendation. So to be able to check that box and because my kids do like someone else teaching them for some stuff, I get a tutor for one of their humanities subject and they take online classes in math/science. My kids are weaker in humanities so a tutor is more beneficial than a class. I find that summer programs do not need a credentialed teacher to fill up the portion on whether the child meets the requirements so an experienced tutor is fine.

I figured some DE classes and/or AP/SAT/ACT scores would be sufficient to validate mommy grades.

 

11 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

I haven't gone through the college process yet, but having gone through a mini version with high school applications, every single place wanted a math/science teacher letter and humanities teacher letter. None of them would accept a parent letter. Even the local public school took the letters for evaluation. I did prepare in advance even though it's just high school. I went with an English teacher whom we've had before and enrolled in a higher level class with her and AoPS math. And course, our very own Dicentra wrote a letter for DD too. It's something that I’m going to keep in mind during 11th grade if we continue homeschooling in HS. Ideally, the teacher would have had at least a year getting to know DD, but maybe even a completed semester class where the class is small and the teacher/student interaction is high could be enough. 

Oldest D'S applied at Rose Hulman and they required a teacher letter with the Common App. As did National Merit when D'S was a semifinalist. He didn't have any teachers except me at that point, the closest thing he had was his debate coach and the mom/dad team who run our drama troupe (both extracurriculars) so they both wrote letters. It was fine. He was accepted at RH with their max amount of merit aid and also made NM Finalist.

Having adults other than you to write letters is a must, but making sure they are "teachers" isn't, IME. YMMV, of course.

And it wouldn't surprise me at all if public high schools had their own rules abour this in order to keep their corner of the market intact, but that's a whole different conversation lol

[...................]

Hmmmm...I don't know how involved the online classes are, but my daughter who is right-brained finds live online classes EXTREMELY stressful and taxing, in a way that she doesn't with regular online self paced work, or live co-op classes.

I can give some reasons but they're kind of guesswork:

1.  Live online classes have the accountability for the deadlines AND the accountability to "get there" on time, but without the human component htat makes co-ops more interesting

2.  Many of the live online teacher's we have had try too hard...they seem to make it extremely academic, and sometimes to no purpose. There's no reason a 10th grader has to do college level work that first and second year college students don't even have to do.

3.  Your lineup there looks very dry. Judging by her hobby (costume making?) your dd is very creative.  A full load of non creative classes can really suck the joy out of learning AND increase the cortisol in the brain as the right-brained learner is always, always working against their natural inclination.  My daughter is struggling with this right now, so I have seen the pattern over the years, if I pile on nothing but dry sequential fact based style learning, she actually gets stressed out and then gets more and more behind, which also causes stress.  People can make it work, and there are times they will have to, but it's hard for anyone to function in a way that they weren't designed to function, all the time for 10 months straight 🙂

Anyway why don't you take a look at Build Your Library for her for next year?

[Roadrunner]

Since she has done physics and bio in middle school, can you have her do a more interesting science? Maybe there is a science topic shenis interested and wants to pursue? I think if you can give her a lighter science year at home, you can “gain” a lot of time to allow her pursue her passions. She can always DE science as a senior if you want something in stone.

What if you do art history or history of theatre? 

 

What does she want to pursue in college? 

 

 

 

[Dicentra]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:21 AM, Farrar said:

I think the current culture in homeschool circles is encouraging people to think they must outsource. If you want to outsource or it's right for you, do it. If you don't want to, don't.

In a general sense, one gap in the marketplace right now in online classes (other than math, which seems to have a lot more options for different budgets and levels) does seem to be "regular" high school classes. There are some, but so many things are geared toward honors level kids or are AP offerings.

That's why I decided to offer Chemistry as well as Honors Chem.  I think that having an option for non-STEM students or life science students (who don't need the heavy-duty phys chem) is an important option to have. 🙂