I Have a Math-hater.

[scbusf]

Full disclosure - I’m a math teacher. My 11 yo DD hates math and I don’t know what to do. As in, I say, it’s time to do your math and it’s immediate tears. She’s doing fine - right on grade level, which is 5th grade. I don’t know what the problem is. 

I don’t expect that she will love math, but the fact is that she will have to be doing math for many years to come. So I’d love if we could get to a point where we both don’t cry every day over math. I also don’t want this to strain our relationship. She does struggle with anxiety, so maybe that’s part of it  

We have tried several different curriculum options - Math Mammoth, Singapore, and now Horizons because I thought maybe the spiral approach would help her confidence. 

What can we do???

[HomeAgain]

A few thoughts of mine:
When I have a kid struggling, I don't continue on grade level.  When my oldest had tears, I backed up a year.  Knowing he didn't have to master something new while he was still working on liking it was a huge help for him. In the end, it gave him the confidence to push forward so he was on grade level later.

When I have a kid balk, it's really important for me to sit down with them and figure out why.  Not so much as "what is the matter?" but framed as "what's important to you so that you can learn this well?" There is a math curriculum selector that is handy to help narrow down choices. You can go through the questions together and find out how to make it more palatable.

Last, I'm a huge fan of different approaches.  I like to blend a full program with a supplement so there's always something fun or interesting that day, but also a bit of written work.  It helps to see the practical side of math.

[Bambam]

I had two girls who did not like math. I love math! I tried to make sure that they understood the concept, and I basically told them that they had to do their math, it wasn't optional, and that tears, moaning, etc would only prolong the time it took to do their math. Sometimes I sat with them and did the math with them (we did the same math problems, but I did not do their math problems.) Finally, many years later, the girls do not really hate math.

We also talked in the elementary years about the fact they were working on arithmetic and not mathematics. One dd finally decided she sorta liked math when she hit Calculus. The other dd still doesn't enjoy math, but she does it without complaining (high school senior) or foot dragging. I didn't elect to have her do Pre-Calc, but we switched to Statistics. She *loves* statistics. 

[Jackie]

I like the idea of going through the math curriculum selector together. Not necessarily to choose the next curriculum, but to break down what is important and appealing to each of you. If you have very different beliefs in how to go about learning math, it may be causing some of the discord.

We also blend our math program with other mathy stuff. In our case, I choose an intentionally challenging program, but only have my child work in it about 3 days per week. Other days, she has chosen between other math options - games, Murderous Maths Book, Hands on Equations, Zaccaro’s books, math puzzles - the types of things you can find listed in the giant relaxed math thread somewhere around here.

[Rosie_0801]

Dyscalculia, perhaps?

[letsplaymath]

One thing that makes math worse is when kids (and the rest of us—this is a cultural problem) view math as a performance subject. Every problem feels like a mini-test, and every wrong answer is perceived as a failure. The standard approach to math homework tends to reinforce this performance notion. The student works on problems, then the teacher/parent checks the answers and points out every flaw.

If your daughter has any tendency at all toward perfectionism, then the “I hate math” response is completely natural.

After all, she will make mistakes. If she could get everything right, that would mean she was working at too low a level. As an extreme example: If you gave her a first-grade book, she could probably do it all without a single error (unless her mind wandered from sheer boredom), but there would be no point to that. She won’t learn anything unless she works at a level where she makes fairly frequent mistakes.

As parents, one of our biggest challenges is to convince kids that mistakes are good. They are a sign that points to opportunity: My mistake tells me, “I can learn something here.” Sometimes what I need to learn is a math concept, other times it’s simply to pay attention to details—but there’s always something. 

I found a lot more success with my math-hating daughter when we switched to the buddy system. It let me continually reinforce the idea that math is a puzzle -- something that might stump her temporarily, but that she could learn to figure out.

[Fawnmoscato]

I used to have a math hater. What worked for us, was to take some pressure off. I told her that I would not count anything wrong if it was a mistake. If a whole concept was incorrect, or it seemed she didn't understand the process, then we would go back and rework the lesson. But if she added wrong or left out a zero, I just had her show me the mistake and we moved on. 

I also took a full year off of traditional math programs and had her use Teaching Textbooks on the computer. I'm a huge fan or TT as a way to relieve tension. I don't think it's a strong program at all, but I've seen it do a lot to raise math confidence. I didn't have to teach and she got ownership. We use Math Mammoth again now, and the results have been drastic. She went from barely being at a 3rd grade level to easily testing into 6th grade math. 

[Fawnmoscato]

On 1/21/2019 at 7:12 PM, letsplaymath said:

One thing that makes math worse is when kids (and the rest of us—this is a cultural problem) view math as a performance subject. Every problem feels like a mini-test, and every wrong answer is perceived as a failure. The standard approach to math homework tends to reinforce this performance notion. The student works on problems, then the teacher/parent checks the answers and points out every flaw.

If your daughter has any tendency at all toward perfectionism, then the “I hate math” response is completely natural.

 

After all, she will make mistakes. If she could get everything right, that would mean she was working at too low a level. As an extreme example: If you gave her a first-grade book, she could probably do it all without a single error (unless her mind wandered from sheer boredom), but there would be no point to that. She won’t learn anything unless she works at a level where she makes fairly frequent mistakes.

 

As parents, one of our biggest challenges is to convince kids that mistakes are good. They are a sign that points to opportunity: My mistake tells me, “I can learn something here.” Sometimes what I need to learn is a math concept, other times it’s simply to pay attention to details—but there’s always something. 

I found a lot more success with my math-hating daughter when we switched to the buddy system. It let me continually reinforce the idea that math is a puzzle -- something that might stump her temporarily, but that she could learn to figure out.

 

 

I totally agree! Great post.

[MerryAtHope]

I'd have a heart to heart (maybe over a fun treat!) Ask her what she likes and doesn't like about school (math is sure to come up in the "doesn't like" category!). Then ask why. Sometimes it's something fixable (like--too many problems, or not enough examples to follow, or maybe she'd do better with more manipulatives, or maybe she thinks she's supposed to get everything right etc...) Ask if there's anything you could do to make math time better. Basically--just spend a lot of time listening and understanding. I usually found a way to get to "tolerable" through talking it through. Sometimes just letting the child have more control over whether math is the first or last subject or how you do the time (maybe she would like to sit together the whole time or to work more examples together etc...) can help. 

[Tenaj]

I've had three math-haters in our family.  I don't know if hate is the right word, but maybe easily frustrated.  With the first I feel guilty because I was a new homeschooler and forced her to complete every problem, every day, and wasn't always patient in my explanations.  We tried various curricula though, Saxon, Math U See, Teaching Textbooks, and she ended up just fine.  It was interesting to me that when she looks back she realizes that even though she hated it, Saxon was the one that was most helpful to her.  In her math classes at the college level, she was the one who was helping other students get through the classes.

My second one has landed on Teaching Textbooks as his most-tolerated curriculum.  He's a junior this year, doing Geometry, struggling as usual but holding down a B average with no tears which I consider a victory. He's on pace to make it through Algebra II by the time he graduates which I will be satisfied with.

Now my third math-hater is in fifth grade this year.  I decided to stick with Saxon for him in the middle grades to see if it would help him to just stick with it.  We took about 18 months to finish Saxon 5/4.  We did not do a lesson a day.  We worked at his pace and backed up several times for him to solidify concepts and I didn't know if we would make it through the end of the book but we did.  Then, I was the one who had doubts about that thick 6/5 book.  So I spent the week I gave him off for math stewing about switching him to something else but then asked him his opinion.  He immediately said he was doing the 6/5 book because he "loved Saxon math".  Who knew?  

I explained our situations to say this:  I really think the key is to alleviate the pressure that tends to surround math!  Let your child work at their own pace.  If they don't get something, either skip it for a while, or circle back around and review, review, review until they get it.   For a while, we had a math fact of the day (which is a Saxon approach in first or second grade) but we kept it up through fourth grade.  My guy looked at me with eyes shining this morning when he finished the 100 addition fact exercise and got them all right in 4 and a half minutes!  He was so proud of himself.  Relax, just do the next thing - even if it takes weeks or longer.  There is no point in forcing them on if they don't understand the basics.  One of my pet peeves with the kids I know that go to private or public school, kids barely passing Algebra I continuing on to Algebra II when there is no way they are going to be successful because they don't have the basics down.

We mix it up all the time . . . use the white board, do just the odd problems, or I'll tell him that if he gets the first 10 assigned problems right then he can finish the rest tomorrow.   If he's just having a mental block during the lesson, we'll do a few together and then put it away until tomorrow.  Frustrated kids don't learn anything.  I wish I had learned that lesson a long time ago.

Another idea I've used is that I bought what we call "cheat sheets" from Christian Light Education several years ago.They are just laminated sheets with math tables and measurements, definitions and formulas.    For my kids who are struggling with math facts or measurements, they can use those for any problem they like.  They soon figure out that it's faster to memorize the facts but for my kids who are not confident in math it gives them a crutch to use as backup when they need help.

Best wishes as you find what works for your child.

[LinRTX]

What I did with one of mine was to work the problems on the white board, every single one. And it was like they were teaching me. I would write something down and they would say the next step. I think doing it together gave her more confidence.

And by way of encouragement, my biggest math hater fell in love with math at the calculus level and is now a math major at college. She calls all the time with pure in her voice at the "hard" problems she is getting to do next. She loves math. And will tell you she still does not like arithmetic.

[RenaInTexas]

Great ideas!

Another one: have you tried mixing up your delivery of the lessons? Math can get monotonous. Ideas:

- have a fun youtuber teach a concept sometimes, we like Math Antics

- use a game to reinforce instead of a spreadsheet: MathPlayground.com has lots

- dance to a song about the concept (lots on youtube, just search: order of operations song/rap for example)

- do a math project, like a poster, on the concept

- Try Prodigy or IXL for practice

- Use a lesson from teacher.desmos.com --- has great lessons that reinforce or teach concepts in an interactive way --- teacher guidance is needed though

[Emba]

On 1/21/2019 at 9:12 PM, letsplaymath said:

AS parents, one of our biggest challenges is to convince kids that mistakes are good. They are a sign that points to opportunity: My mistake tells me, “I can learn something here.” Sometimes what I need to learn is a math concept, other times it’s simply to pay attention to details—but there’s always something. 

I found a lot more success with my math-hating daughter when we switched to the buddy system. It let me continually reinforce the idea that math is a puzzle -- something that might stump her temporarily, but that she could learn to figure out.

Thanks for this. I tried buddy math with DD this afternoon for some corrections (yeah, mean mom, math on Saturday), and it was really helpful for us. I think this is the math reset button I've been looking for.☺

[Kanin]

18 hours ago, emba56 said:

Thanks for this. I tried buddy math with DD this afternoon for some corrections (yeah, mean mom, math on Saturday), and it was really helpful for us. I think this is the math reset button I've been looking for.☺

🙂 Awesome!

My most math-hating, math-confused student L-O-V-E-S Prodigy math (computer game). The basic version is free, and plenty fun. Kids earn rewards by doing "battles" after they solve math problems. You can set it up so you control the content she practices. I also use the buddy system when my student plays Prodigy - sitting right next to him with the whiteboard, and we solve problems together. It could be a fun after-lesson reward 🙂 https://www.prodigygame.com/

 

[8filltheheart]

I sit with my kids while they are doing math.  For my weaker math students, I work the problems myself and watch as they go step by step to make sure they understand what they are doing. I intervene immediately if they are doing anything wrong and we discuss why they were doing what they were doing and I guide them to see their mistakes. 

For my stronger math students, I grade problem by problem as they do their work.  It keeps them from perpetuating incorrect understanding. It has the added bonus of knowing their math is graded when they are finished!  🙂

[8filltheheart]

On 1/25/2019 at 10:28 PM, Paradox5 said:

I recently dumped Horizons for one of mine. That is the worst book!

It is definitely OK to be a Horizons hater, but it should be noted that that is a personal assessment.  Horizons is a solid math curriculum that will provide an excellent elementary math foundation.  🙂 I strongly dislike Saxon and SM, but that doesn't mean that they are the worst programs. Just the worst programs for me to use to teach my kids.  😉 

[Fawnmoscato]

On 1/25/2019 at 12:02 AM, Patty Joanna said:

BTDT, but with kid in third grade.  I'm married to Math Man.  

I completely backed off and decided  that by the end of third grade, the only thing that mattered was that my kid liked math.  

I was intrigued by Andrew Kern's statement that a kid doesn't hate math; he hates not knowing math.

So I went backwards to grade 1.5 and re-did the foundations.  (Lots of reasons).  Long story short:. Kid progressed in math by a big leap; kid loves math again.  We played a lot of games and I felt like a loser.  But we won.  

The mathy part of the brain is the last to develop.  Give it time and don't really fearful.  Every bad decision I ever made was based in fear. 

 

Interesting! Do you have a link to where he talks about that? I'd like to hear/read it.