"Getting a job" woes

[dirty ethel rackham]

I need to have a job this semester because the program I am applying to needs a letter of recommendation from an employer.  When I asked about it from my adviser, she was adamant that it had to be from someone I worked for for pay.  And it had to be on company letterhead.  Well, for the last 20 years, I had been homeschooling my kids, done volunteer work, and was self-employed.  I haven't worked for someone else for pay.  It stinks that what I have done with my life isn't worth anything on paper.  So, after having difficulty finding a job that worked around my school schedule, I decided to try to get a job through the college.  I have enough credit hours this term to qualify so I found a couple of positions that I thought I would be a good candidate for.  

So, here I am filling out the online job application.  And they want me to list my last 2 jobs (which could be volunteer.)  The form is so cut and dried, so there isn't much room for explanation or anything out of the ordinary.  They want the typical, title, company, description of responsibilities (the only really flexible field) as well as supervisor name, title, phone, etc.  Well, I am a volunteer leader for 4-H.  I have the name of the supervisor of the county program, but this won't be helpful.  1.  She is brand new to the position and doesn't know me at all.  2.  She really doesn't have supervisory power over me.  She isn't involved in my day-to-day activities.  Even the old program director wouldn't actually know what I did for our club, just what I had done for some county events.  My last job was actually a self-employed position with a cabinet refinisher.  Yes, she did have supervisory authority over me since it was her business, but, we were really independent ... we submitted invoices and she paid from those.  We were never really officially employed by her.  My other hesitation with putting her down is that I don't think she has a good impression of me.  Even though I tried my hardest, was very teachable, sought out advice and constructive criticism to do my job better, she was influenced by a "mean girl" that she needed due to her wider availability.  Eventually she stopped scheduling me.  My previous job for pay was with a retail shop owner who has a few screws loose and decided she didn't like me, but wouldn't talk to me about her issues with me despite me seeking feedback.  I have never had people not like my work and these were not high level jobs with tons of responsibility (unlike everything I did for homeschooling, volunteering with other organizations, and my previous career.) 

Ok, so that is my long-winded whine.  What do I put down for this employment situation?  It just looks so lame to me.  If someone handed me an application like what I am allowed to turn in, I wouldn't give them a second glance.  I don't get to submit a cover letter.  I don't get to submit a resume.  Any ideas?  

 

[SereneHome]

Is there a way for you to get "around' the application process  - may be talk to the actual hiring manager or HR or someone.  May be try to make contact with an actual person.

I had a very extensive job history and my "break" was much shorter than yours, but even then I realized that just filling out an application made no sense.  One of my previous employers was no longer in business.  My manager from my most "recent" job before the break was living somewhere on the beach, smoking cigars and drinking margaritas. 

It's really not always cut and dry as to filling out an application.

[DawnM]

What you have sounds fine.  Talk to the people (who you need recommendations from) and ask them if they will write something positive.

Wanna know what I did?  When I was applying for a job, I hadn't worked in 10 years, and most of my former bosses had retired.  So, I found a young pastor who I had volunteered with, and two friends I have done volunteer work with.  They each wrote up a nice letter for me.  

I ended up with a job.  

You are fine.

Edited January 21, 2019 by DawnM

[dirty ethel rackham]

Just now, SereneHome said:

Is there a way for you to get "around' the application process  - may be talk to the actual hiring manager or HR or someone.  May be try to make contact with an actual person.

I had a very extensive job history and my "break" was much shorter than yours, but even then I realized that just filling out an application made no sense.  One of my previous employers was no longer in business.  My manager from my most "recent" job before the break was living somewhere on the beach, smoking cigars and drinking margaritas. 

It's really not always cut and dry as to filling out an application.

Unfortunately, I don't have an in at any of these departments.  I am just a part-time student taking pre-reqs until I have everything to apply to the program.  This is a very large community college and this is the way to get student employment.  They strongly discourage just walking in to talk to those hiring.  Because that would mean that hundreds of students would be doing this and wasting lots of time.  That is why they have this stupid form.  (Yeah, I asked.)  

[dirty ethel rackham]

17 minutes ago, DawnM said:

What you have sounds fine.  Talk to the people and ask them if they will write something positive.

Wanna know what I did?  When I was applying for a job, I hadn't worked in 10 years, and most of my former bosses had retired.  So, I found a young pastor who I had volunteered with, and two friends I have done volunteer work with.  They each wrote up a nice letter for me.  

I ended up with a job.  

You are fine.

I have lots of people who would write a glowing letter of recommendation.  Unfortunately, due to bureaucracy, they don't want anything other than what checks their boxes.  I did notice that they do allow me to submit other references for the job, which will help.  

[Chris in VA]

Is it a paper application? I would staple a resume behind it. They might tear it off, but they also might give it a glance before they trash it. 

Go ahead and get those other recommendations. Do one of the lesser evil folks, and then some glowing ones. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

2 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

Is it a paper application? I would staple a resume behind it. They might tear it off, but they also might give it a glance before they trash it. 

Go ahead and get those other recommendations. Do one of the lesser evil folks, and then some glowing ones. 

Not a paper application.  An online form.  Even less flexibility.  But, I did find that, on the last page in very small print, I can upload a resume and cover letter.  So, this is where I am going with this.  I did find another part of the website that allowed me to list some personal references.  

[Catwoman]

This may be a stupid question, but are you 100% certain that your advisor is correct about the requirement that it be a paying job? 

It seems like an odd requirement, so it might be worth going over her head (covertly) and finding out for sure.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I asked two people, including the head of the program.  When I expressed how it was odd and that the other things that I have done should count for something (especially like showing up and being on time when you aren't getting paid), she just shrugged.  I will ask again as I plan to have another meeting with the advisor in the next few weeks.  I just can't see how some minimum wage job speaks more to my character and reliability than my other life experience.  

[Wheres Toto]

9 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

This may be a stupid question, but are you 100% certain that your advisor is correct about the requirement that it be a paying job? 

It seems like an odd requirement, so it might be worth going over her head (covertly) and finding out for sure.

Ellen  - I see you already answered this but it does seem odd.  With those guidelines, owning your own business or working as a contractor wouldn't qualify.  That seems very limiting.

[dirty ethel rackham]

2 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:

Ellen  - I see you already answered this but it does seem odd.  With those guidelines, owning your own business or working as a contractor wouldn't qualify.  That seems very limiting.

Yeah.  It pretty much ticked me off.  I will try to go over this woman's head, but she acted like I was being a pain for "trying to get an exception."  Yeesh!

[saw]

I'd be tempted to ask them why they refuse to recognize the value in unpaid labor, and whether they recognize the unduly disparate impact this rule has on women who are more likely to stay home to raise children? I would hint that this attitude is discriminatory. But then again I am grumpy today. 

[DawnM]

I think you need to ask someone other than your advisor.  I often find that when I ask the same question to another person, I get a different answer.  

[LostSurprise]

As a private contractor can't you ask one of your former clients to write you a reference? If you have a regular client, or someone you're friendly with, even if they are themselves self-employed they should have form letters or titles or banners to use on the reference. 

I say do that anyway, even if they don't have "a letterhead" because once the reference is in they're probably not going to throw it out. The world does not run on letterheads anymore.

[vonfirmath]

2 hours ago, LostSurprise said:

As a private contractor can't you ask one of your former clients to write you a reference? If you have a regular client, or someone you're friendly with, even if they are themselves self-employed they should have form letters or titles or banners to use on the reference. 

I say do that anyway, even if they don't have "a letterhead" because once the reference is in they're probably not going to throw it out. The world does not run on letterheads anymore.

 

Note that my company's "letterhead" is a Word document we add our text to.  Nothing specially printed

[Wheres Toto]

11 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

 

Note that my company's "letterhead" is a Word document we add our text to.  Nothing specially printed

My last job was for an international marketing company with over 60,000 employees.  Our letterhead was a Word template.  Since 99% of our documents weren't actually printed but sent electronically, it worked out a lot better.  When necessary, we printed in color. 

[Tanaqui]

I'd love to see how Ask a Manager answers this, because "needs to be a paying job" is positively Kafkaesque.

[Terabith]

Could you just write not applicable?