Another eating disorder mentality question

[Night Elf]

So I asked my DH if he thought anyone with an eating disorder had ever just said NO, I'm not doing this anymore and went back to a more normal behavior with regards to eating. He feels it's possible and used losing weight as his example. In 2011, both he and I got fed up with being heavy and felt determined to lose weight. We joined WW that very night and attended our first weekly meeting the next day. We never missed a meeting while we were losing weight. We both did what the program suggested, eating only the number of points allotted to us, increasing our water, and eating small portions of high calorie foods like sweets. I had apple pie every night I was in the program but it was 1.5 ounces only and was enough to satisfy my sweets craving. It took me 11 months to lose 45 lbs. I lost another 10 lbs. several months after that because my doctor told me to lower my carbs. Anyway...

What do you think? Why does it seem harder for me to recover from bulimia than it did to lose weight? I've become increasingly unhappy with my obsession with this whole eating disorder. All I really want to do is just be determined and change fast. Of course it took me 11 months to lose weight at first. I've read that recovering from an ED varies by individual but that some do it cold turkey. I have a friend in England who pretty much turned around her eating. She's gained about 15 lbs. but has settled into her current weight and is now eating for health rather than calories. I'm wondering if I should read that book that helped her. It was about gut micromes or whatever and eating the rainbow and stuff like that. I don't know if I can change the foods I eat but I have been making an effort at putting more fruits and veggies in my diet. I've just been tracking them so I eat small amounts. Silly, I know. If I stop tracking, I won't know how much I'm eating and I might be more inclined to eat more of the good food. I think the worst thing I eat right now is my snacks, chocolate animal crackers and rice krispie treats. Otherwise I'm eating foods from Hello Fresh and Home Chef for dinner. Yogurt, soup, cheese sticks or PBJ sandwiches for lunch. Eggs with veggies and fruit for breakfast. I've found a new bread that I like eat. I'm sure it's refined. I have a seed bread I like a lot that I could go back to.

What are my chances of success? Am I crazy to try this?

[Catwoman]

Do you have a good therapist who can help you through this?

[Night Elf]

Just now, Catwoman said:

Do you have a good therapist who can help you through this?

I do. She's not professionally trained in eating disorders but told me she's worked with people with EDs in addition to their other help. She helped me slow down my weighing and got me eating better foods. She also encouraged me to eat more calories but it took over 6 months for me to go from 1200 - 1700 and to be consistent about it. I haven't seen her since last June. I think she'll be amazed at how improved I am and I know she'll encourage me to let go of the behaviors that bother me. She makes me feel good about myself.

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

I do. She's not professionally trained in eating disorders but told me she's worked with people with EDs in addition to their other help. She helped me slow down my weighing and got me eating better foods. She also encouraged me to eat more calories but it took over 6 months for me to go from 1200 - 1700 and to be consistent about it. I haven't seen her since last June. I think she'll be amazed at how improved I am and I know she'll encourage me to let go of the behaviors that bother me. She makes me feel good about myself.

 

Why don’t you see her on a regular basis? It sounds like she is a big help to you when you see her.

[Night Elf]

5 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Why don’t you see her on a regular basis? It sounds like she is a big help to you when you see her.

I stopped seeing her in June when my work schedule increased and I felt like I didn't need her help anymore. I was in a better head space than when I first started working with her so felt justified in stopping. Now I think I need to see her again, that's why I've got an appointment this week. I'm looking forward to seeing her.

[DawnM]

19 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

 

What do you think? Why does it seem harder for me to recover from bulimia than it did to lose weight? What are my chances of success? Am I crazy to try this?

 Because one is a mental condition

[Kassia]

3 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 Because one is a mental condition

 

Exactly.  Beth, you even wrote that in your original post - you called it an obsession.  

Edited December 2, 2018 by Kassia

[Guest]

Do I think people can change in one snap decision? Yes, absolutely. 

Do I think you personally can make a snap decision to not have an ED? I do not know. 

[Pawz4me]

I think it’s possible for some people with an ED to possess enough stubbornness/willpower/be goal oriented enough/whatever you want to call it that they can recover from an ED without professional mental health assistance. Even so, I don’t think it will be an instantaneous, cold turkey type recovery, but rather slow improvement over time. But my perspective is probably biased because that was my own experience. However, I had a very motivating goal (to be able to get pregnant).

I think expecting quick improvement is unrealistic.

I think for most people having professional mental health help is absolutely best, and in hindsight I wish I’d had more.

[Night Elf]

54 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 Because one is a mental condition

I had to laugh at that. That didn't occur to me at all! How right you are!

Ok. Let's see if my therapist can help me. I'm determined to be done with this and I just hope it happens sooner rather than later. I've already slowed my weighing in to once a week. I'm going to see if I can push that back even further. And I'm going to try to not track on MFP this week but will take it one day at a time. I am still thinking about cancelling the MFP account. It's nothing but trouble. 

 

[Kassia]

21 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

 

Ok. Let's see if my therapist can help me. I'm determined to be done with this and I just hope it happens sooner rather than later. I've already slowed my weighing in to once a week. I'm going to see if I can push that back even further. And I'm going to try to not track on MFP this week but will take it one day at a time. I am still thinking about cancelling the MFP account. It's nothing but trouble. 

 

 

If it's nothing but trouble, I think you should cancel.  Glad you are seeing your therapist and that you like her.  I am inspired by your determination.  I need to get there.  I cling to my ED even when it's risky to my health.  

[Night Elf]

4 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

If it's nothing but trouble, I think you should cancel.  Glad you are seeing your therapist and that you like her.  I am inspired by your determination.  I need to get there.  I cling to my ED even when it's risky to my health.  

I think it might depend on what is the root of the ED. I only started because I got a high from losing weight. It wasn't to cover emotions or trauma. I didn't hate my body or feel envious of others. I lost down to my goal weight with Weight Watchers and felt good about how I looked and felt. I was eating better than I ever had and exercising occasionally. It was when my doctor called me prediabetic and suggested I lower my carbs that a problem began. I dropped 10 lbs. in about 6 weeks and it all happened so fast compared to what I had done with WW that I didn't want to lose that momentum. I became fixated on the number on the scale and had to restrict my food intake in order to maintain that number. I would get tired of restricting daily though and would have what I called a big eating day to reward myself for going days without eating a lot. I never thought of it as binging until my psychiatrist told that's what I was doing. Now I think my problem is simply an ingrained habit. It is a very strong feeling. If I could get past that habit of restricting, I'd be so much closer to a full recovery.

[DawnM]

11 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

I think it might depend on what is the root of the ED. I only started because I got a high from losing weight. It wasn't to cover emotions or trauma. I didn't hate my body or feel envious of others. I lost down to my goal weight with Weight Watchers and felt good about how I looked and felt. I was eating better than I ever had and exercising occasionally. It was when my doctor called me prediabetic and suggested I lower my carbs that a problem began. I dropped 10 lbs. in about 6 weeks and it all happened so fast compared to what I had done with WW that I didn't want to lose that momentum. I became fixated on the number on the scale and had to restrict my food intake in order to maintain that number. I would get tired of restricting daily though and would have what I called a big eating day to reward myself for going days without eating a lot. I never thought of it as binging until my psychiatrist told that's what I was doing. Now I think my problem is simply an ingrained habit. It is a very strong feeling. If I could get past that habit of restricting, I'd be so much closer to a full recovery.

 

What you have described is not necessarily an ED.  Many, many diets call for restricting calories and having a "cheat day" where you don't have to restrict or you get extra treats, or whatever.

Are you eating huge amount?  Are you vomiting?  Are you hiding what you are eating?  

[Night Elf]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

What you have described is not necessarily an ED.  Many, many diets call for restricting calories and having a "cheat day" where you don't have to restrict or you get extra treats, or whatever.

Are you eating huge amount?  Are you vomiting?  Are you hiding what you are eating?  

My psychiatrist said that binging and restricting is a form of bulimia. It doesn't have to be purging. I'd have a day of binging, choosing high calorie foods all day regardless of how my body felt. By bedtime I'd feel sick as a tick but the only thing that would stop my eating was to take a sleeping pill to get to sleep. Then the next 2-3 days I'd eat less than 1100 calories to make up for the huge amounts of food I ate on my big eating day. Regularly, my daily calorie count was close to 1200. So that was restricting on a normal basis as my body really needed more than I was giving it. Lately I've been night binging. I eat 1000 calories in several foods in an hour or less period, generally starting at 8:00 pm. So I was eating my normal 1700 calories during the day and another 1000 at night. That's too many calories for me, even when I get my 10,000 steps in and earn calories. I usually earn 400.

And I do hide my eating from my DH. When I binge, I don't track on MFP because it would be off the hook. When I do track, I never tell him how many calories I'm eating and he doesn't see my tracker. I also don't tell him what I weigh because he grumbles when my weight stays down so low. 

And when does something go beyond a diet? I've been binging and restricting since 2012. If that was just me dieting, that's one helluva long diet. 

Also consider the mental state I am in. I feel so bad when my weight isn't where it's supposed to be and elated when it's below where I expect it to be. I obsess about food and weight all day. I think about it constantly. When can I eat and what should I eat? Can I have just one more of that if I forego that one bit of this other later in the day? Should I eat that type of bread when it's so many more calories than this diet bread. I choose most of my foods based on calorie content. Sometimes if I eat more calories than I want for breakfast, I eat a small lunch and just deal with the hunger I feel until dinner time. Then I eat a small dinner and have a cup of coffee to give me that 'finished' feeling. I get hungry again 1-2 hours after I eat dinner and I have something else, usually a yogurt if I feel really hungry but sometimes just a cheese stick or a rice cake. I go to be feeling hungry every night which is why I thought I needed to eat and found myself binging instead. 

No, I have been suffering from an ED, not just normal dieting. I guess you could see my behaviors as dieting but the amount of obsession and the length of time I've been living this way go beyond a regular diet.

[DawnM]

33 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

My psychiatrist said that binging and restricting is a form of bulimia. It doesn't have to be purging. I'd have a day of binging, choosing high calorie foods all day regardless of how my body felt. By bedtime I'd feel sick as a tick but the only thing that would stop my eating was to take a sleeping pill to get to sleep. Then the next 2-3 days I'd eat less than 1100 calories to make up for the huge amounts of food I ate on my big eating day. Regularly, my daily calorie count was close to 1200. So that was restricting on a normal basis as my body really needed more than I was giving it. Lately I've been night binging. I eat 1000 calories in several foods in an hour or less period, generally starting at 8:00 pm. So I was eating my normal 1700 calories during the day and another 1000 at night. That's too many calories for me, even when I get my 10,000 steps in and earn calories. I usually earn 400.

And I do hide my eating from my DH. When I binge, I don't track on MFP because it would be off the hook. When I do track, I never tell him how many calories I'm eating and he doesn't see my tracker. I also don't tell him what I weigh because he grumbles when my weight stays down so low. 

And when does something go beyond a diet? I've been binging and restricting since 2012. If that was just me dieting, that's one helluva long diet. 

Also consider the mental state I am in. I feel so bad when my weight isn't where it's supposed to be and elated when it's below where I expect it to be. I obsess about food and weight all day. I think about it constantly. When can I eat and what should I eat? Can I have just one more of that if I forego that one bit of this other later in the day? Should I eat that type of bread when it's so many more calories than this diet bread. I choose most of my foods based on calorie content. Sometimes if I eat more calories than I want for breakfast, I eat a small lunch and just deal with the hunger I feel until dinner time. Then I eat a small dinner and have a cup of coffee to give me that 'finished' feeling. I get hungry again 1-2 hours after I eat dinner and I have something else, usually a yogurt if I feel really hungry but sometimes just a cheese stick or a rice cake. I go to be feeling hungry every night which is why I thought I needed to eat and found myself binging instead. 

No, I have been suffering from an ED, not just normal dieting. I guess you could see my behaviors as dieting but the amount of obsession and the length of time I've been living this way go beyond a regular diet.

 

Then you absolutely need help, and now!  And I honestly think this goes beyond ED.  You have mentioned before that you have anxiety, general functioning issues, etc....the message board is not going to be of help other than to direct you to get help.  

[Night Elf]

7 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

Then you absolutely need help, and now!  And I honestly think this goes beyond ED.  You have mentioned before that you have anxiety, general functioning issues, etc....the message board is not going to be of help other than to direct you to get help.  

True but there are some BTDT people that I like hearing from. I feel I have a handle on things right now, not completely but I have a plan. I'm much improved over the beginning of the year. I just want to be completely normal again so I want to go from 'much improved' to 'full recovery'. I don't want to go to the eating disorder clinic. When my psychiatrist suggested that, that's when I started making improvements. When I researched the clinic, I found out that one of the classes used a book called Intuitive Eating so I bought it and read it. I thought I could jump into it as it resonated with me but I didn't last long following their suggestions. They start off with giving yourself permission to eat anything you want whenever you want, but to at least wait until you're hungry and to finish when you're full. I found that to be a contradiction. All the people on their forum that participated admitted they gained weight when they started their IE journey. I did want to eat more and gain a little weight but I didn't want to gain too much. I met a lady there from England and we've been corresponding since them, sort of supporting one another. She's doing much better than I'm doing though. She's learning a way to eat that involves things that don't interest me much so I don't think I can do what she's doing.

I'll be okay. I'm seeing my therapist this week and we'll talk about what I can do to move forward. I trust her. And if I'm not much improved in a few months, I might consider the clinic. I just feel I'd be out of place there. I don't look like I have a problem. People are surprised when they find out about my ED. I've told the ladies at work and they're very supportive. We can laugh about some of the things like when lunch  time rolls around and we see what each other is eating. However, they don't make me feel bad about myself nor do they push food on me. I appreciate that.

[Catwoman]

Are you planning to see the therapist at least once a week? I really think you should. She sounds wonderful.

[Night Elf]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Are you planning to see the therapist at least once a week? I really think you should. She sounds wonderful.

Oh definitely. Last time I saw her for about 4 months before I quit. I don't know how long this will take but we'll just see what happens. I'd rather not go back to the nutritionist though. I didn't care for her.

[Tanaqui]

You wouldn't realistically expect to recover from cancer overnight, would you? Or even the flu?

Mental illness is just as real, and it takes just as long to treat.

[Rosie_0801]

Beth, consider stretching out the time between visits to your therapist, when you feel good, rather dropping altogether. You obviously need her help when you're in crisis, but you need help for maintenance too. ❤️ 

[Janeway]

I basically did. For the most part. I used to routinely throw up after eating and fast for long periods of time. Once I got pregnant with my first, I said I did not want to do anything at all to hurt that baby. Now, on occasion, I will throw up anyway. But this is a once or twice a year thing. I have gained a bunch of weight through the years, mostly that first year or two. My weight had been stable for over a decade now, for the most part. I have not overdone the exercise thing since getting pregnant with my first either.  I think it helps that I see an endocrinologist now too. I think some endo problems can contribute to an eating disorder.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Janeway

[J-rap]

Based on your first post, you actually seem to be doing pretty well!  (Some of your other posts make it appear more complicated...)

I do have two good friends who had ED for years and are now mostly completely over it.  I don't really know how one of them finally pulled out of it, but I know the other one did it cold turkey.  She met a woman whose teeth were rotting or falling out due to her years and years of an ED.  That scared her so much, that she pretty much stopped immediately.  I'm sure it took her awhile mentally to catch up with her new, focused way of eating healthily, but she seems to be doing great now.  

It reminds me a little of my mother who had breast cancer in both breasts when she was in her early 40's.  She said that for a long time after that, she thought of it almost every minute every day, afraid that it was coming back.  But at some point, she realized that she wasn't thinking about it at all anymore.  (She's 90 now.)

[Bluegoat]

I think it's possible in the abstract for people to do this kind of thing.  It happens sometimes.  With weight, with addiction, with other behaviour related prolems, even very stubborn ones.  I've seen it happen a few times with serious addictions and it's pretty remarkable to see.

As far as a particular individual at a particular point in time, it may or may not be possible.

But I think there is nothing wrong with being hopeful that such a thing could be possible for you.