They love PS but it is making them obnoxious UPDATE THEY'RE NOT THAT OBNOXIOUS NOW

[kiwik]

11 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think mostly when adults can’t figure out how to manage basic chores and setting up a housework system it’s more because of lack of executive function skills than because no ones taught them how to do the chore.  And I say that as someone who probably fits that category.  A huge part of keeping house and life stuff is being able to adjust expectations to changing circumstances and that can be extremely difficult for some of us.

That said I do think it’s good for kids to have some chores but not “make believe” chores that don’t really need doing - something that’s actually helpful and necessary.

And not thinking a clean floor is more important than their book. Not everyone has the same standards of cleanliness and provided no one is getting sick does it matter?

The games during breaks when they are indoors is the school being lazy.  Kids playing games on their own laptop don't fight or cause damage.  I must admit that when ds9 is having a bad day I have resorted to it myself.

Edited November 10, 2018 by kiwik

[chiguirre]

8 hours ago, moonflower said:

Regarding the importance of their contribution to the household: if they didn't do the dishes and clean the floors and watch the little ones on occasion, what would we do?

Well, DH and I would do it.  We'd just work a little less at the business, sleep a little less, post on the forums a little less ?  It's not a life or death situation if they just all got mono tomorrow and couldn't help out for a month or something.

But, that said, their contribution is real and important.  If I got sick for a few weeks DH could pick up the slack too, but that doesn't mean my work isn't needed when I can do it.  

Anyway, what worries me more than whining about chores is the unkindness toward siblings and the tendency to melt down when previously there would have been no drama.  They want nothing to do with their younger siblings or with each other where previously they were happy to play together (most of the time).  They snipe and say unkind things (when asked what something says by DD7, DD13 will say "learn to read!"; when DS5 wants to stomp around in the leaves outside with DS10, DS10 will tell him to go away unkindly, etc.) 

I dunno, they say they like school and they are willing to wake up at 6am every morning to go, but they don't seem as happy.  But it's only been a few weeks, that's true.

I wonder if part of it is the technology - at home, we have the one computer that they share and no small electronic devices - no smartphones or tablets or TVs or anything.  At school they've been issued a laptop which they take around with them all day and use during indoor recess, study hall, break times, etc.  In the past when we've stayed with my Mom, where they all have their own tablet and a nintendo and TV and computer and etc., I've noticed that they get much shorter tempered.

Putting away clothes and doing dishes is cool. TBH, in my house, putting away your own clothes isn't a chore, it's just what we all do because they're your clothes. It sounded like you all didn't get dinner if they didn't cook it or clean clothes if they didn't do the laundry. I'm glad that's not the case.

My guess about the grumpiness is the 6 am wake up. Geezle has that too and it's brutal. The solution for him is to lay down and take a short nap when he comes home. The very first thing he does when he comes in the door is go to bury himself under a mountain of pillows and zone out for half an hour. GW has also started coming home, getting a snack and lying down for a nap. It's made a huge difference in the level of sibling sniping in my house. They've suddenly become good room mates who don't get in each other's face. Of course, they're much older but it can't hurt to give the nap/decompression time a try.

[Frances]

2 hours ago, chiguirre said:

Putting away clothes and doing dishes is cool. TBH, in my house, putting away your own clothes isn't a chore, it's just what we all do because they're your clothes. It sounded like you all didn't get dinner if they didn't cook it or clean clothes if they didn't do the laundry. I'm glad that's not the case.

My guess about the grumpiness is the 6 am wake up. Geezle has that too and it's brutal. The solution for him is to lay down and take a short nap when he comes home. The very first thing he does when he comes in the door is go to bury himself under a mountain of pillows and zone out for half an hour. GW has also started coming home, getting a snack and lying down for a nap. It's made a huge difference in the level of sibling sniping in my house. They've suddenly become good room mates who don't get in each other's face. Of course, they're much older but it can't hurt to give the nap/decompression time a try.

My son did one term of public middle school and was exhausted the first few weeks. I second the suggestions for snacks and an hour or so of downtime when they arrive home. Those that need a nap will likely fall asleep while relaxing.

All of the electronics at school would be very difficult for me. It’s bad enough they are used so much in the classroom, but allowing them during recess just seems like an easy way to get zoned out, compliant kids. It never ceases to amaze me how often schools do directly the opposite of what research shows is best for kids from the way they teach reading to the lack of physical exercise/recess and so much in between.

[Lecka]

Last year in 3rd grade my daughter had two days when she came home from school a wreck, and said she had played a math facts game (that she likes a lot) for recess.  I was getting ready to complain to the teacher, but it didn't happen again after the second day.  I think she must have seen for herself!  Indoor recess where my daughter could choose to play board games or use art supplies worked fine for her.  

[moonflower]

Update: They're not as obnoxious now.  

I think, after a couple of months of experience, that the main driver of continued poor behavior when it does happen is largely sleep deprivation.  They're quite used to sleeping 10+ hours a night on a more night-owlish schedule (say midnight to 10am) and now that they wake up at 6 am, 10 hours doesn't always or even often happen.  We've gotten much better about going to bed on time (9pm) but even so, there are nights when one thing or another keeps them up until 10.  The next day they just cannot cope

They love school and they're doing well; they're kinder to each other and siblings and on the whole somewhat less screechy.  The ones who go to school have a camaraderie they used to not have, so that is good.  We do need to get more regular sleep, though.  I am thinking about sending them to bed at 8pm every night just to read quietly in their rooms.  I hate that they have to wake up at 6am but it is what it is.

[prairiewindmomma]

We have a 8pm bedtime because we have a 6am wake time. My K’er still naps some afternoons and the kids are all looking forward to sleeping over Christmas break.

[gardenmom5]

one reason  chaperoning on field trips is a positive . . . you get to see how the rest of the class behaves . . . some of them, . . . oh, my   . . . .

[moonflower]

I just feel like 8pm is so crazy.  I have been living the homeschool dream for a long time, I guess.

They don't even get home until 4!  Does the public school system really get that many of their waking hours? sigh.

It's been so good for them, though, in other ways.  I am still not sending my 5 year old to K this year (it's full day K) but the three oldest are on the whole doing well, and it helps reduce tension somewhat during the day to have them away.

But jeez I wish school were either 4 hours a day or 6 months a year.

[Sneezyone]

41 minutes ago, moonflower said:

I just feel like 8pm is so crazy.  I have been living the homeschool dream for a long time, I guess.

They don't even get home until 4!  Does the public school system really get that many of their waking hours? sigh.

It's been so good for them, though, in other ways.  I am still not sending my 5 year old to K this year (it's full day K) but the three oldest are on the whole doing well, and it helps reduce tension somewhat during the day to have them away.

But jeez I wish school were either 4 hours a day or 6 months a year.

 

My DS started back two weeks ago (as part of his transition to middle school next year) and he goes to bed earlier too. He's in his room NLT 9p, asleep quickly thereafter, and awake at 6:15/6:30. He gets home right at 3p tho. Snack and HW are done by 5p so he's still got plenty of time to hang out.

[Lecka]

One of my kids needs a quiet wind-down in the evenings on school nights.  He just does.  It takes up time but he needs it.  

My other two kids can go from playing to calmly lying in bed in 15 minutes.  

 

[Ausmumof3]

47 minutes ago, moonflower said:

I just feel like 8pm is so crazy.  I have been living the homeschool dream for a long time, I guess.

They don't even get home until 4!  Does the public school system really get that many of their waking hours? sigh.

It's been so good for them, though, in other ways.  I am still not sending my 5 year old to K this year (it's full day K) but the three oldest are on the whole doing well, and it helps reduce tension somewhat during the day to have them away.

But jeez I wish school were either 4 hours a day or 6 months a year.

I’ve said this so often!  I would love it if there was somewhere you could send them that was close, small and was like 3 hours a day - a short burst of literacy and numeracy and a fun activity then they could come home.  Especially for primary school.  School is just such a long day for little kids.

[Bluegoat]

On 11/9/2018 at 7:39 PM, Michelle Conde said:

I remember reading a study quite a few years ago about factors of self-esteem in kids, and one of the strongest I didn’t expect at all was that kids with work that they knew was actually meaningful to their families generally had very strong self esteem.  I remember it particularly mentioned farm kids and kids of poorer immigrant families where parents were working long hours and kids were either helping to run the household or earning money for the family.  

 

I think this is absolutely true.  People who feel like their contribution is important, like they have the ability to care for themselves and others, like they are competent at life, are happier and less stressed.  People who feel like they are leaches on others and dependent generally feel quite unhappy about it and stressed, it's why most people will work hard to get out of that position.

Kids are not different in this than adults - if anything, the drive to attain competence and contribute is stronger - though I think it can be kind of squashed through a sort of learned helplessness.  I don't really understand why people would think kids were different than other people in such a basic way.