College Placement in Foreign Language

[Serenade]

What is a typical college foreign language placement for a student with 2 years of high school foreign language?  I'm talking a B student, not an A student or one who is particularly talented or motivated. 

I was just looking at the foreign language requirements for my son's community college, and it says that most students who have taken 2 or less years of high school foreign language typically start at the basic level (intro) in college.   That would suit my son just fine, but I'm wondering if that is typical. 

[GailV]

Dd's college gave placement tests to everyone who didn't already have enough dual enrollment credits to totally fulfill their college foreign language requirements.  Comparing notes with other incoming freshmen, others who had taken a couple of years in high school with decent grades were placed into first semester freshman foreign language.  

So, that sounds like the same thing you're describing.

I imagine where kids place depends on how rigorous the high school courses were.  Also, side note, dd didn't think her high school experience was very rigorous, but the placement test put her into the 4th semester class (which she was appalled about because she's afraid that would be "too hard"; OTOH, she apparently placed highly enough that she doesn't need to take any foreign language at the college).

CLEP has foreign language tests, and some colleges will translate the scores into various levels of college credit for foreign language (that is, the higher the score, the more semesters of credit you earn).

 

[RootAnn]

So, this so depends on the college, IMO. Do they have a placement test or mechanism?

Let's talk three colleges my kid has looked at:

College 1: online webcape placement test before registration. Can appeal the placement through an in person interview with a professor, but doesn't guarantee you'll get into the class you want after that interview

College 2: Based on your years of language. If you have taken two years in high school, you place into the first semester of the second year of that foreign language. (This college doesn't require past the first year of language if I remember correctly, so I think you could be done. But maybe they require two years of college f.l. I don't remember.) The intro classes specifically say they are for students who have no prior exposure to that language.

College 3: Based on a placement test that you have to arrange to take at registration. You can appeal with an interview. You can't take anything below the level you test into unless you are auditing the class not-for-credit.

Eta: all take Clep and AP credit.

Edited September 22, 2018 by RootAnn

[Serenade]

16 minutes ago, GailV said:

Dd's college gave placement tests to everyone who didn't already have enough dual enrollment credits to totally fulfill their college foreign language requirements.  Comparing notes with other incoming freshmen, others who had taken a couple of years in high school with decent grades were placed into first semester freshman foreign language.  

So, that sounds like the same thing you're describing.

I imagine where kids place depends on how rigorous the high school courses were.  Also, side note, dd didn't think her high school experience was very rigorous, but the placement test put her into the 4th semester class (which she was appalled about because she's afraid that would be "too hard"; OTOH, she apparently placed highly enough that she doesn't need to take any foreign language at the college).

 

I'm guessing there is a lot of variation in foreign language rigor.  Where I live, the schools are on a block system, when they only take 4 courses per semester, but each course has the same value as a traditional course taken over a year.  I, personally, don't feel that most students can learn as much when Spanish I, for instance, is conducted over the course of one semester instead of over a year.  I think that probably leads to a lot of variability in language ability, especially if the students take the language early in their high school career, and then forget it before college. 

16 minutes ago, GailV said:

CLEP has foreign language tests, and some colleges will translate the scores into various levels of college credit for foreign language (that is, the higher the score, the more semesters of credit you earn).

 

 

I did some of the CLEP sample questions, and I thought they were difficult.  At least the ones I did required one to listen to an audio and then answer the questions afterwards, but the audio was fast, and used a number of words that I thought were at a higher level than indicated.  I don't think my son would be successful at the CLEP test at all.

Thanks for your input!

[Serenade]

13 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

 

College 2: Based on your years of language. If you have taken two years in high school, you place into the first semester of the second year of that foreign language. (This college doesn't require past the first year of language if I remember correctly, so I think you could be done. But maybe they require two years of college f.l. I don't remember.) The intro classes specifically say they are for students who have no prior exposure to that language.

 

 

This is the sort of the way his CC does it, except a student is automatically placed into the first level of a foreign language with 2 or fewer years in high school.  A student can appeal that and take a placement test, but generally, a student with up to two years of a foreign language is recommended to start at the basic level.

I think that's probably what my son will do. He is not stellar at Spanish and doesn't really like it but has to have 2 courses at the college level. 

I've been teaching him Spanish myself (I have a degree and studied abroad), and I guess I always worry if I didn't teach him enough due to strong resistance, lol.  However, it sounds like it is not atypical for a student with a couple of years of foreign language in high school to start at a basic level in college.

 

[RootAnn]

9 minutes ago, Serenade said:

This is the sort of the way his CC does it, except a student is automatically placed into the first level of a foreign language with 2 or fewer years in high school.  A student can appeal that and take a placement test, but generally, a student with up to two years of a foreign language is recommended to start at the basic level.

At least he'll have a headstart! (I feel bad for kids in a beginner class that have never seen the language before being there with kids who have had two years already. (DD's beginner (high school) Russian class has about 1/3 prior-exposure students.)

 

[JenneinCA]

It depends on the school.  My daughter signed up for German 101 because she had not taken a formal class in German at all.  At that first class meeting she was told to go talk to the person in charge of placement tests.  She did and was placed in German 201 skipping both 101 and 102.  

(Daughter did lots of German duolingo and two summers at language camp.)

On the other hand, the community college I am attending has people in Japanese 1 ranging from brand new to the language to studied in high school several years ago to studied on their own for the last five years.  It is a real mix of abilities.  I think the people who are really seeing the material for the first time are having major issues.  But there is no way to test into a higher level.  

(I am the one who has self studied for several years.  The kid next to me is so lost and confused.  The teacher is trying but I think the difference in levels is just too much.)

[klmama]

Even though people may expect two semesters of high school foreign language to equal one semester of college, IME it's usually more like three semesters of a typical high school foreign language course to equal one semester of college.  So, a student who has completed two full years, or four semesters, of high school foreign language will likely test into college foreign language 102 (second semester of the first year).  Now, if the high school course standards were particularly challenging, it's possible the student might test into foreign language 201 (first semester of the second year), but that's not what I usually see happen.

ETA:  If your student isn't motivated, starting over with foreign language 101 may be a very good choice.  There will be 2-3 times the amount of vocabulary per chapter in college texts, and the grammar will be covered with greater depth and with more exceptions.  If your dc tests into 2nd semester, he will still need to make sure he is comfortable with the vocabulary and grammar from the first part of the book.

Edited September 23, 2018 by klmama

[Serenade]

10 hours ago, RootAnn said:

At least he'll have a headstart! (I feel bad for kids in a beginner class that have never seen the language before being there with kids who have had two years already. (DD's beginner (high school) Russian class has about 1/3 prior-exposure students.)

 

 

I agree.

My son does not love Spanish.  He was not happy when he learned that he'd have to take 2 foreign language classes to graduate from the community with an associates in science. He said maybe he'd try German instead, and I kindly let him know that German is way more complicated than Spanish, plus he'd be starting from scratch.  

[Serenade]

38 minutes ago, klmama said:

 

ETA:  If your student isn't motivated, starting over with foreign language 101 may be a very good choice.  

 

He is definitely not motivated, lol.   I think it's good for him to start at the beginning, but I was just wondering if that was unusual and would look bad on his records.  He only has one more semester of high school after this one, so I might suggest to him that he continue to study Spanish with me until the end of next semester, and then take Spanish his second year at the community college. [He is currently dual-enrolled.]. I don't want to figure out how to have both high school Spanish 1 & 2 and college level Spanish on his transcript.  Seems like it would look like a repeat, no?

[RootAnn]

41 minutes ago, Serenade said:

I don't want to figure out how to have both high school Spanish 1 & 2 and college level Spanish on his transcript.  Seems like it would look like a repeat, no?

Others before you have figured it out.  (I'd let him take it now. Less years of pain & anguish for him, IMO.) I'd just list it as DE Spanish 101. The people who look at the transcript will understand it. (DD#1 says that yes, German is more difficult because of the cases (like Latin), but it is fun. She loves Spanish, too, though.) 

[elegantlion]

I have a minor in French and our high school (not the one I attended many eons ago) has a very good French program. Only once did I see students from that program enter into anything beside 100 level courses. We had two students start at the 300 level as freshmen and they were good. 

Another consideration for starting at the 100 level is that it will be easier. If they're challenging themselves with other courses, especially ones they are more invested into, then it may not hurt to have an easy course on the schedule. Our language classes ( I took French and Latin at the same time) had homework every night. Again, having some familiarity with the material can be helpful. 

[Serenade]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

Others before you have figured it out.  (I'd let him take it now. Less years of pain & anguish for him, IMO.) I'd just list it as DE Spanish 101. The people who look at the transcript will understand it. (DD#1 says that yes, German is more difficult because of the cases (like Latin), but it is fun. She loves Spanish, too, though.) 

I think my son would have liked German, but I really believe he would struggle with it.  He has a heavy math and science load with lots of homework, and he would struggle to find the time it will take him to learn the language. He has a hard time categorizing different words -- it's like he doesn't see the difference between words like "nos" and "no."   He went on a rant today about those two...

 

1 hour ago, elegantlion said:

I have a minor in French and our high school (not the one I attended many eons ago) has a very good French program. Only once did I see students from that program enter into anything beside 100 level courses. We had two students start at the 300 level as freshmen and they were good. 

Another consideration for starting at the 100 level is that it will be easier. If they're challenging themselves with other courses, especially ones they are more invested into, then it may not hurt to have an easy course on the schedule. Our language classes ( I took French and Latin at the same time) had homework every night. Again, having some familiarity with the material can be helpful. 

 

I am hoping that he will have learned enough at home to make the college course a bit easier.   I'm not too worried about him taking the first college level Spanish class.  He has made progress lately, but it's slow.  I am really worried about the second level, however. Although there is no sense in worrying about that now.  Maybe he'll surprise me.

Thanks all, for your input!

[J-rap]

Our experience at two schools...

A certain number of foreign language classes were required (2 or 3) to be accepted at the college, after that, no language courses were actually required to graduate from the college unless you simply wanted to take them or were going to major in them.  Then, you take the placement test.  My dd had had three years of French in high school but also lots of practice outside of that.  She was a French major in college so she took the placement test and passed out of all level grammar courses so she could go directly into advanced courses such writing, literature, etc.

Another dd took four years of Spanish in high school, and I believe two years of a language were required to get into her college.  Once there, you needed to take two foreign language courses to graduate from college.  You could try and pass out of a class (or two) completely if you took a CLEP-like test, and then you'd get the credit for the class(es) and wouldn't need to take anymore; or, you'd take the placement test and see where you landed, but then you'd still need to take two full courses even if you passed into level 3.  My dd thought about taking a completely different language, or even ASL.  But in the end, she decided to take Spanish over again right from the start. She didn't even take the placement test.  (The placement test is only necessary if you want to try and skip a level.)  We really encouraged her to take it and at least begin at level 2, but she didn't feel she did too well in high school and also it had been a couple years since she had taken them.  

[katilac]

My kids are good foreign language students. 

I encouraged oldest to start again with 101 because they did not have much conversation, and there are so many variations in programs. She was bored to tears and pretty annoyed with me, lol. She is interested in languages and wound up with Foreign Language and International Trade as one of her majors, plus got her certificate in a second language. 

Youngest knew the experience of oldest but said, I'll take the easy A, mom! She is good at it and didn't work very hard for A's in her three college semesters, but has no interest in it. 

Every school I've seen has placement tests if you want them. I've never seen a school specifically recommend starting back at the beginning. I've seen a couple of schools that would not let you start at the beginning if you had a certain amount of study under your belt (three years, I think). 

 

[TCB]

My dd just started college this year. She took the placement test and placed into Spanish 3, which she is taking now. If she passes this class with a C or better she will get retroactive credit for the previous levels. She scored really well on the first 2 levels and then missed the 80% mark by a tiny bit on the 3rd. She could have taken it again to try and get 80% but she decided that although she had covered most of the stuff on the test in the past she felt a little unsure of it so didn't retake the test and opted to take that class. I'm glad she did because a number of students in her class dropped the class because it was too hard. She's doing well but I think it is a good level of challenge for her in her first semester. I was really pleased she tested where she did because I was very unsure about how well we had done Spanish in our homeschool. Also, a friend from work told me that her dd had taken 5 years of Spanish at the local school and then had not been able to test out of any of it at college, so I was nervous about how dd would do.

I'm of the opinion too that it is better to start lower than stretch too high so that you can really master the material but of course every kid is different.

[kokotg]

My son only placed out of the first semester of college Spanish when he started dual enrollment in 11th grade, even though he'd worked with a private tutor for many years and had just finished a Spanish 3 book with her. I think he would have done better if he'd studied beforehand and reviewed all the verb tenses, but college foreign language classes move very quickly, and I think having the review and an easy first semester certainly didn't hurt him. 

[GoodGrief]

On 9/22/2018 at 6:29 AM, Serenade said:

What is a typical college foreign language placement for a student with 2 years of high school foreign language?  I'm talking a B student, not an A student or one who is particularly talented or motivated. 

I was just looking at the foreign language requirements for my son's community college, and it says that most students who have taken 2 or less years of high school foreign language typically start at the basic level (intro) in college.   That would suit my son just fine, but I'm wondering if that is typical. 

Being in the intro level would not be uncommon, but it depends on the school. My daughter had taken Mandarin since she was 10 years old, including AP level, plus a course at the local university when she went off to college. She was placed in second year Chinese and it was a good fit.

[Mabelen]

Yeah, every college does this differently. My daughter's college had a compulsory placement test for all freshmen. My daughter had a 5 in AP Spanish, and a high Spanish SAT score and still had to take it, although she did place out of the foreign language requirement.

I think your plan for your son is a good one.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Mabelen