Have I just drunk the homeschool Koolaid?

[prairiewindmomma]

TBH, I've wrestled with this issue.  Are the relationship issues big enough that it balances the educational ones?  Can you after school in what matters most?  I think there's a tradeoff no matter what you do, it's just choosing the set of consequences that give you a clean conscience at night.

[MaeFlowers]

GS ratings are relative to other schools in the state and district. They aren’t useful for determining quality beyond performance on state tests. State tests may be easy or challenging. The state standards themselves may be high or low relative to other states. When we go looking for duty stations and retirement locations we look first for a state with strong performance metrics and then for a district and school within that already strong state. A 7/10 GS ranking in, say, MA might well outperform a 10/10 school in MS.

The es I went to was in another state. Their tests scores are equivalent to the state average. The es here is doing slightly better than state averages.

 

I would be hard to compare because our state has its own testing system and they teach to that test. But, even with that I find great schools to be a little misleading. If only 40% of students are testing at level, they still shouldn't be getting a 7/10 because that implies they are doing at least a decent job of education when they are not.

 

ETA: Even the best schools in the state are scoring around 50-60%. (And teachers in that county have been caught cheating more than once.)

There is a disconnect somewhere. Either the test is unrealistic (state average is around 30-35%) or we have bad teachers or ...something else. Maybe because they are doing better than the state average they get the 7/10. Great. But, something is still wrong there.

Edited November 27, 2017 by MaeFlowers

[bethben]

TBH, I've wrestled with this issue.  Are the relationship issues big enough that it balances the educational ones?  Can you after school in what matters most?  I think there's a tradeoff no matter what you do, it's just choosing the set of consequences that give you a clean conscience at night.

 

She's in school from 8am until 3:30 pm.  Add to that reteaching math every night and doing her homework (language arts i.e. homeschooling), there's not much time left for her to just be a kid and do the things that interest her (drawing and reading history books ironically).  It's a hard balance - our relationship is much better, but at the same time, I see a child who will continue to get good grades while falling farther behind in understanding what she needs to succeed.  It's going to catch up with her eventually.  All I want is to give her the skills to accomplish what she wants in life and not be hampered by a poor education.  I also think I can change how I homeschool her in order to preserve our relationship.

[bethben]

The es I went to was in another state. Their tests scores are equivalent to the state average. The es here is doing slightly better than state averages.

 

I would be hard to compare because our state has its own testing system and they teach to that test. But, even with that I find great schools to be a little misleading. If only 40% of students are testing at level, they still shouldn't be getting a 7/10 because that implies they are doing at least a decent job of education when they are not.

 

It seems that those score compare the testing vs. the state.  If the state in general is doing poorly and your school is better than that, then the higher score.  So, our school that tests 36% proficient in math is still better than the state average of 32% so you can still get a 8 out of 10 score.  If you go to a different state, you could have the same proficiency in math yet the state average is much higher so the school would get a 3 out of 10.  

Edited November 27, 2017 by bethben

[Sneezyone]

It seems that those score compare the testing vs. the state. If the state in general is doing poorly and your school is better than that, then the higher score. So, our school that tests 36% proficient in math is still better than the state average of 32% so you can still get a 8 out of 10 score.

Yes, this. Beyond that, comparing state to state is done with NAEP, PSAT, and ACT/SAT. The individual state tests don’t say much outside of how schools within the state compare to each other and the state standards, not to any objective national measure of quality or proficiency.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Sneezyone

[MaeFlowers]

It seems that those score compare the testing vs. the state. If the state in general is doing poorly and your school is better than that, then the higher score. So, our school that tests 36% proficient in math is still better than the state average of 32% so you can still get a 8 out of 10 score. If you go to a different state, you could have the same proficiency in math yet the state average is much higher so the school would get a 3 out of 10.

I added that in my eta. Im still having a problem with it because, essentially, those scores aren't telling us much. It doesn't tell us why state averages are so low. I guess I could research elsewhere but it's moot to me. The schools where we live are not good no matter the scores. Our state ranks one of the lowest. By SAT scores, even lower. And our local high school is in the bottom of that barrel.

[Sneezyone]

She's in school from 8am until 3:30 pm. Add to that reteaching math every night and doing her homework (language arts i.e. homeschooling), there's not much time left for her to just be a kid and do the things that interest her (drawing and reading history books ironically). It's a hard balance - our relationship is much better, but at the same time, I see a child who will continue to get good grades while falling farther behind in understanding what she needs to succeed. It's going to catch up with her eventually. All I want is to give her the skills to accomplish what she wants in life and not be hampered by a poor education. I also think I can change how I homeschool her in order to preserve our relationship.

FWIW, I had the same concerns sending DD back. She needed PS socially and we needed a break from each other. I continued to school her during the summer tho. The break we had (and some maturity) means DD now appreciates, much more, what I was offering her before. She sees that DS knows more than she does on many topics and she knows that the preteaching we did during the summer was on point. She’s one of a handful of kids that has an A+ in math (they use Eureka/EngageNY and actually do implement it with fidelity, including grading). We are moving again next year and DD actually asked to be homeschooled again until we get to our final destination. I don’t think she would have done that but for her experience these last two years. She sees for herself that homeschooling gives her significant academic advantages.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

I added that in my eta. Im still having a problem with it because, essentially, those scores aren't telling us much. It doesn't tell us why state averages are so low. I guess I could research elsewhere but it's moot to me. The schools where we live are not good no matter the scores. Our state ranks one of the lowest. By SAT scores, even lower. And our local high school is in the bottom of that barrel.

Many states have adopted new tests in the last few years which makes the data even harder to use. I think that confusion is intentional.

[Heidi]

Last month I was tutoring some 8th grade kids from a local private school because they had no idea what they were doing in math. It's Eureka math and it's all available online so I could look at their tests and see that the teacher wasn't marking answers wrong even though they were completely wrong. One test had 12 questions and each of the girls answered three sort of right. And they both made a 96. He just didn't mark them wrong!

 

So anyway I was tutoring them and teaching them how to do the math and they both complained to their moms that they didn't see a need to be tutored when they are making an A in math. And their moms finally agreed because 'the girls refused to attend tutoring'. The moms both know the teacher isn't marking answers wrong when they are incorrect (I gave them the website that has the test answers on it so they can see their kid is not doing it right) but to them it's all about the grade. The teacher is an administrator who just teaches this class because they have no other 8th grade math teacher.

 

All this to say...just because other people are ok with substandard education doesn't mean you're the one who's crazy.

Wow that is just pathetic all around!

[MaeFlowers]

Many states have adopted new tests in the last few years which makes the data even harder to use. I think that confusion is intentional.

Please forgive me as I am having a particularly hard time articulating myself today. I cant seem to spit out what I want to say.

 

I understand comparing schools within a state. I would like to see Great Schools use that info to create a nationwide rubric. Just like SAT scores. That would be more useful to me as a parent. It would set a more uniform standard for what a great school actually is. Thats probably asking too much, though.

 

I have a whole 'nother issue with testing but we probably need to started on school today.

[Sneezyone]

Please forgive me as I am having a particularly hard time articulating myself today. I cant seem to spit out what I want to say.

 

I understand comparing schools within a state. I would like to see Great Schools use that info to create a nationwide rubric. Just like SAT scores. That would be more useful to me as a parent. It would set a more uniform standard for what a great school actually is. Thats probably asking too much, though.

 

I have a whole 'nother issue with testing but we probably need to started on school today.

I get what you’re saying, and agree even, but they can’t do that because every state has the authority to create its own standards and the tests to measure whether students are meeting those standards. Local control means we get uneven standards and uneven tests. The best we can do is kinda like I described above, look for strong states on NAEP, SAT/ACT and then look for strong districts and schools within those states. That still doesn’t guarantee a good fit tho. Edited November 27, 2017 by Sneezyone

[Lang Syne Boardie]

If you know you'll be bringing her home for next year, and you know that she's learning the wrong lessons academically, you might consider bringing her home at the end of the semester. Have the holiday break to deschool, but then get back to real learning in January.

[bethben]

If you know you'll be bringing her home for next year, and you know that she's learning the wrong lessons academically, you might consider bringing her home at the end of the semester. Have the holiday break to deschool, but then get back to real learning in January.

 

We agreed to stick it out for the year.  I have some other issues that will resolve a little toward the end of next semester.  Although, sometimes I think I could do absolutely nothing and we would still be at the same point when she finished 4th grade. She'll catch up again.  

[kroe1]

To the OP who is deciding whether to continue what she feels is substandard education verse a stressed, burned-out homeschool mom, are there other options? For example, when DD and I started clashing in high school, I fired myself and put her in a streaming program. I kept the little control I needed like the grading of tests. With all the options in homeschooling out there, is there a way for you to make it work better?

[bethben]

I found a co-op where my will be eighth grader can get 75%of his classes taught by very skilled very passionate teachers. My daughter can have a classical conversations type class along with writing and Latin in the afternoon. I can actually sign up for two full days of classes almost if I want for both kids. Dd will do history and science independently since she loves to read that stuff anyway. When she gets to sixth grade, she can take full time classes. It’s not cheap and I’m not sure how many people would consider it still homeschooling, but it’s what I feel will work for us. I’ve done Potters school classes when my now 17 year old was in junior high and that worked well. I’m also going to split the school day with ds in the morning and dd in the afternoon when he oldest disabled brother is more calm. Dd can have a lot of independent reading and working on her CC memorization in the morning also. That’s my plan.

 

 

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[SparklyUnicorn]

To the OP who is deciding whether to continue what she feels is substandard education verse a stressed, burned-out homeschool mom, are there other options? For example, when DD and I started clashing in high school, I fired myself and put her in a streaming program. I kept the little control I needed like the grading of tests. With all the options in homeschooling out there, is there a way for you to make it work better?

 

What is a streaming program?

[BlsdMama]

You know we really struggled with whether or not to put the kids in  school this year because of my health.

 

We did send the two littlest to morning preschool but chose to homeschool the rest as long as I am physically able which is pretty darn good this year.

 

I am so glad.

 

I had an unusually spectacular day today and had to pick up DH because his car is in the shop and said, "We made the right decision."

 

It is so hard sometimes.

I understand what you are saying about your DD.  We have a DS I begged to NOT homeschool for two years and when DH would say, "Okay so you *really* want him in school?" and I'd back down again but really DID want him in school but with NONE of the drawbacks.  We kept on schooling at home.  We're in the thick of HARD with him and I think we will be for years.  But I  do know it is working.  He is reading.  He is doing math.  And I know if we put him in school I would end up with a sullen, resentful, non-learner.  

It's not Kool-Aid.  For better or for worse, committed homeschooling is just an option that is truly a blessing and works.  ;) <3 

[eternalsummer]

There are schools that will teach your 4th grader math and writing and history and science.  This school may not do that, but many schools will. :)  Including some homeschools :)

[Murphy101]

There are schools that will teach your 4th grader math and writing and history and science. This school may not do that, but many schools will. :) Including some homeschools :)

Which means a fat lot of nothing to the parent whose kid for whatever reason isn't one of the lucky few in such a school.

[eternalsummer]

Well, it means that if you are really having trouble with the social aspects of homeschooling, or that it is making your parent-child relationship difficult, you can look around for other options.  The OP's kid is (as I understand it) in a charter, so there is at least one more public school she's zoned for that might work, or as she's said she's found sort of a hybrid 2-day a week program.

 

I'm just saying, don't write off all schools because you think none of them are teaching academics - some are.

[bethben]

The public school she’s zoned for is worse academically. I can choice her into any school that has room for her, but anything even remotely close has even worse test scores. My area has experienced huge growths and the schools are barely keeping up. Schools everywhere in my district are overcrowded. I put her on a waitlist of a decent public school, but the chances are pretty slim. Like #102 on a waitlist slim. I see homeschooling as our only option. She has matured a bit and is really frustrated with many aspects of public schools including math instruction. She has also figured out that I actually do know what I’m doing.

 

 

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Edited November 28, 2017 by bethben

[bethben]

Update:  Sunday night after a week break and having school on Monday, she started having her stress verbal tics.  Mostly a moderate "woo" sound.  The only time she's had them in the past is after major surgeries so I'm surprised they're showing up again.  They are not quiet and will be noticed.  Last night she had trouble going to sleep because of the tics.  She came home pretty stressed because she wants justice for her teacher who is having trouble controlling the class. Now, she is adding to the chaos with verbal tics that can be disruptive.  She does not want to be homeschooled.  She doesn't want to leave her school but has been begging every day to be put into a new classroom.  The classrooms are all packed to the max.  She has a girl in another class who's verbally bullied her in the near past so that classroom is out.  There are two more possibilities.  I'm pretty sure that she won't be able to change classrooms and the verbal tics will need a good long break at Christmas to go away.  

 

Basically, I'm not sure what to do.  She is very sure she doesn't want to homeschool again (I know I'm the parent, but with this child, resentfulness is not a good way to start - I haven't told her what will be happening next year) but the school thing is not working on many levels and getting worse.  I'm going to set up a time to talk to the principle and am trying to problem solve with the teacher.  

Edited November 29, 2017 by bethben

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I am so sorry.

[Lecka]

I am sorry too, it sounds like she is very stressed by the classroom situation she is in :(

[MarkT]

For now do some "after-schooling" let her make friends.