Pen Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Please do not quote since I will probably delete this after getting some replies. Thank you! I still have some question in my mind about the issue of people from another culture coming to learn about ours and being expected to blend in and deal with the norm here, rather than it being expected for us to change. I think to give an example in another area, that even if our spiciest food might taste bland to someone from elsewhere that spicing our food to meet their sense of normal in that would not be expected. OTOH not serving a food that is considered unclean to another person, like pork, would be something to change personal behavior to meet the other person, if they were going to partake of the meal. I don't know where issues of eye contact, touch, etc. are on the sort of spectrum as between spicy versus unclean. I don't know what is merely culturally common, and what is forbidden. I don't know if there are ways to get around something--like I have been told in some cultures one hand is not to be used for eating, but if a person has only one hand, he can declare his left hand his right hand for the purposes of being able to eat. I don't even know if that is true. And I don't know if, similarly, someone is hurt, but there is a "no touch" rule if there is a way to make an assistive touch acceptable, or not. I communicated to my teen son, or at least I hope I succeeded in communicating, not to touch girls from other cultures with unknown and also very probably much more conservative views on touch and contact between the genders than locally is the case--since here there is a lot of touching amongst the kids as part of their daily interactions, whether just in greeting or show of support or joy after things well done, or as part of activities. And to take the foreign girls' leads as to eye contact and conversation. I also tried to communicate to the extent I found some online info, some of the differences between expectation in a couple of the countries represented by the exchange students. Edited September 18, 2017 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Can he just ask them about it? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Some Muslim women I know prefer no one to touch them (or maybe just from men?). Casual touch in our society is pervasive (touching a shoulder, arm, etc, to make a point). Depending on the country of origin, there may be stipulations against close friendships. ETA - some Muslim women wear hijab, and some don't. It is a personal choice. Edited September 17, 2017 by displace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Just a comment: Muslims can be American teens too. As far as exchanges go, I would let the girl take the lead to some extent. If she doesn't talk to boys for religious reasons then she won't approach one to talk to him. But he can say hi and smile and then just see if it is reciprocated and/or followed up with conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) nm Edited September 18, 2017 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I do not feel one can lump all Muslims into a specific category of behavioral norms. However, if it were my son, I would not allow such contact, irrespective of the religion or culture. That is because my personal family culture is do not go touching the opposite gender unless you want the wrath of momma. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulalu Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 This really depends on what culture/country. There are big differences between Arab, Asian, African expressions of the faith. Next it also depends on what "branch" the girls are. There are big differences in beliefs. These are just to help you google or ask. Not saying I have an answer 😀 I only have experience living in the middle east and near middle east countries. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Of course, I can't speak for all Muslims in the world.... but if her parents let her become an exchange student to the US, then there was probably some knowledge that things would be different here vs. her home country. Unless a secular Muslim, it would be highly highly unusual for her to go to a school dance....as dancing in public would likely be frowned upon as is dating in general. While not all marriages are arranged, in general, when a boy and girl like each other, it is expected that families will be bought in, and they would become engaged and or married. (Obviously when old enough, but it's not unusual for Muslim girls to get married at 19-20 vs. 24/25 or whatever the average age of marriage is these days. Finances can keep a couple from marrying, tough.) Often times, they would not be allowed alone together in any situation. I don't know about school classes and such. I would think that often girls tend to socialize with girls, boys with boys, just because of the talk that could occur and get back to her family. But still, when I was a Presbyterian, that was the case usually too at our school. Girls hung out with mainly girls, boys with boys. It would probably not be appropriate to touch any girl, Muslim or not, without consent. As for conversation and eye contact, probably fine--but once again, follow her lead. If the boy in questions has sisters, it would be more appropriate for them to socialize with the girl than the boy. If you wanted to invite this girl over to your house for dinner or something, the invitation would probably be best coming from a sister of the boy, or from the family to the girl's exchange family. Group event, rather than alone stuff. Once again, this is all general. Edited September 17, 2017 by umsami 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 If the exception of the race, which put your son in an especially awkward position because he was asked to help by the coach, I would assume that most situations wouldn't ever require touch. So I would advise him not to touch the girls even casually on the arm. Even if he is assigned to sit with one of the girls in a class to work on a group project, for example, the talk involved could be more "formal" - ie. centered on obeying the teacher - and only on a personal friend level if the girl moves it in that direction. I agree with lolo that the country of origin is more important as far as determining the norms and taboos involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I do not feel one can lump all Muslims into a specific category of behavioral norms. However, if it were my son, I would not allow such contact, irrespective of the religion or culture. That is because my personal family culture is do not go touching the opposite gender unless you want the wrath of momma. We don't let our boys touch girls either. That is not an absolute of course.....shake hands, offer a hand if needed ect.....but in general the guideline is hands to yourself. I find it surprising that a devout Muslim teen would be allowed to be an exchange student. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I do not feel one can lump all Muslims into a specific category of behavioral norms. However, if it were my son, I would not allow such contact, irrespective of the religion or culture. That is because my personal family culture is do not go touching the opposite gender unless you want the wrath of momma. Not even to help someone who is injured? Maybe I am missing something, but what about games like tag or flag football? Hugging a friend? Or the million other reasons that I see dd and her friends of both genders touching each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Not even to help someone who is injured? Maybe I am missing something, but what about games like tag or flag football? Hugging a friend? Or the million other reasons that I see dd and her friends of both genders touching each other. Most of my Muslim friends (the majority of them American), don't play interactive sports with the opposite sex, have strong friendships, etc. They hug same sex friends, and touch opposite sex people in a professional manner (medical field) and emergencies, but not casually. Shaking hands is generally acceptable. I would think an opposite sex person "helping" her could easily have been assigned a same sex helper. And, unless there was a big injury, she may not have wanted help at all. You know how a lot of people try to assist you on and off a boat or bus? I hate that. I feel like if I need help, I'll ask for it. Also, some person casually touched me (same sex), to show me a line was moving, but on my waist/back vs arm. It super bothered me even though I know it was a normal gesture. Maybe she just doesn't want to be touched or has a bigger personal space? :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Most of my Muslim friends (the majority of them American), don't play interactive sports with the opposite sex, have strong friendships, etc. They hug same sex friends, and touch opposite sex people in a professional manner (medical field) and emergencies, but not casually. Shaking hands is generally acceptable. I would think an opposite sex person "helping" her could easily have been assigned a same sex helper. And, unless there was a big injury, she may not have wanted help at all. You know how a lot of people try to assist you on and off a boat or bus? I hate that. I feel like if I need help, I'll ask for it. Also, some person casually touched me (same sex), to show me a line was moving, but on my waist/back vs arm. It super bothered me even though I know it was a normal gesture. Maybe she just doesn't want to be touched or has a bigger personal space? :) I was specifically addressing the idea that her son is not to touch any female irregardless of culture/religion. I am all about respecting the wishes of anyone regarding if and how they are touched. I just found the idea of being forbidden to touch anyone of the opposite gender to be a bit unusual and was wondering how that is handled on a day to day basis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visitor Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Even being a muslim I find it very hard to answer your question . Because not every muslim is the same :-) . I just would have a open conversation with the teen girl in what her lifestyle is and what is approciate for her. I appriciate your mindset in being open to others religions and making it comfortabele for the girl. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Not even to help someone who is injured? Maybe I am missing something, but what about games like tag or flag football? Hugging a friend? Or the million other reasons that I see dd and her friends of both genders touching each other. I am not the poster you asked this of, but for our family we just tell our boys to keep their hands to themselves. Finding reasons to touch the opposit sex is a fairly standard thing teens do so we just head it off at the pass. They swim together but they don't play chicken or any other game that requires touching...well I think they do play tag but it is a quick touch to an arm. And no hugging. They fist bump. LOL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I have some concern that what is normal in our culture is not acceptable in the girls' cultures. Probably true. But that's part of the point of a student exchange program -- to experience another culture and become more aware of your own. When I was an exchange student in another country (a Muslim majority country, as it happens) I experienced a number of situations that would be unacceptable in modern American culture. And some of them made me uncomfortable. But it wasn't the responsibility of anyone in my host country to shield me from those experiences. It was my job to learn what things I might do that would be offensive in their culture. And to learn to adapt myself to new norms or, if I was truly uncomfortable, to speak up for myself and set boundaries. If it's normal for a coach to direct one student to help another, that student should do what's normal in the culture of that team/school/country. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Just a comment: Muslims can be American teens too. Yes, I think people forget that many Muslims are born in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Just a thought - if you have any Indian friends (Muslim or otherwise), they probably have a good sense of how to advise a young non-Muslim about Muslim dos and don'ts. The culture in many parts of India is a mix where people of all religions understand the unspoken boundaries and still manage to be good friends. Another idea is to seek out a group of international college students. They could both teach and learn on matters such as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I would encourage him to ask, but speak clearly and simply. If he runs over to help her, he can ask, "can I help?" while offering a hand. If she looks uncomfortable but like she needs help, he can give another option like, "should I get one of the girls?" Remind him that those learning a language need time to process what was said and to formulate an answer, so give her time to think. As long as he asks politely, accepts no as an answer, and gives her personal space, I'm sure he won't give offence. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Don't touch them or anyone without consent. As far as the everything else ---- they came here by choice. They can choose which parts of the culture to participate in, and how they want to participate. As far as how teen boys or anyone should behave around them - they came here by choice. Nobody here should feel obligated to change their own normal socially acceptable behavior in order to be around an exchange student from anywhere. Be kind, be understanding, be welcoming, respect boundaries. But don't worry about changing anything else. They chose to come here. They can adapt. (My experience is as a peer with international students in high school and college, from all over the world, and many of them were Muslims, in the 80s and 90s. They all dealt just fine. Nobody made any special changes to be around them. ) I will add about conversation - the boys here shouldn't feel they can't be friendly and greet someone and start a friendly conversation just because the person is female. I don't care where someone is from, what their gender is, or what their cultural norms are. They chose to come here, to experience our culture. In our culture, we make eye contact and say hello. We make friendly small talk, regardless of gender. How will these girls have a chance to experience a different culture if people here tiptoe around them ? I would encourage my son to say hello and be conversational. If they don't want to talk, they can politely bow out. Part of their American experience should be learning how to adapt to the cultural differences and deciding how they want to handle things. In the race situation - he can offer a hand to help, and she can choose to take it or not. Edited September 17, 2017 by laundrycrisis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) nm Edited September 18, 2017 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) This really depends on what culture/country. There are big differences between Arab, Asian, African expressions of the faith. Next it also depends on what "branch" the girls are. There are big differences in beliefs. These are just to help you google or ask. Not saying I have an answer 😀 I only have experience living in the middle east and near middle east countries. Any sense of this from your middle east experience might help. Edited September 18, 2017 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 I am not the poster you asked this of, but for our family we just tell our boys to keep their hands to themselves. Finding reasons to touch the opposit sex is a fairly standard thing teens do so we just head it off at the pass. They swim together but they don't play chicken or any other game that requires touching...well I think they do play tag but it is a quick touch to an arm. And no hugging. They fist bump. LOL. I'm not sure that even a quick touch on an arm is okay in one or two of the represented cultures. The local culture of the school includes non-romantic, non sex related, hugging, arm around shoulder, carrying, high-fiving, and other forms of touch, that are considered positive in that culture, and go on amongst the kids regardless of gender....but may not be okay for the exchange students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I'm not sure that even a quick touch on an arm is okay in one or two of the represented cultures. The local culture of the school includes non-romantic, non sex related, hugging, arm around shoulder, carrying, high-fiving, and other forms of touch, that are considered positive in that culture, and go on amongst the kids regardless of gender....but may not be okay for the exchange students. Right. I agree in that situation no touch at all is best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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