Ds will be a senior

[Scarlett]

I have no idea what he will do after high school.  He took the ACT in April totally cold and scored a 25.  I keep reassuring him but honestly I don't know if that is a good score.  His dad wants him to re take it with some prep but ds read somewhere that you can't really improve your score much...is that true?  

 

His GPA is about 3.8 I think.  He has a super easy senior year so should be able to boost it a bit.  

 

If he goes to school it will probably be to OSU to their engineering program.  

 

I really don't even know what I am looking for.  I don't know how to guide him when my gut says he probably isn't mature enough to pull off college.  He has never had to study and he is a procrastinator.  

 

[prim*rose]

My dd boosted her score from a 27 in October to a 30 in June. She studied hard and researched test strategies. She's hoping to get it up another few points. We'll see. 

I took the ACT my junior year and got a 27. Took it my senior year and got a 32. So yes, I think it's definitely possible to get it up higher with the right attitude and studying. But if he's not ready, then he's not ready. Maybe a gap year would be a good idea?

[regentrude]

I have no idea what he will do after high school.  He took the ACT in April totally cold and scored a 25.  I keep reassuring him but honestly I don't know if that is a good score. 

 

Depends on his goals. Look up the colleges he may be interested in. They publish the admissions requirements, as well as the scores for the 25th and 75th percentile of their admitted freshmen.

 

For OSU, a 24 ACT guarantees admission

https://admissions.okstate.edu/information/freshmen/admission-requirements.html

 

edited: removed wrong link 

 

 

 His dad wants him to re take it with some prep but ds read somewhere that you can't really improve your score much...is that true?  

 

Oh yes, you can improve. It is difficult to improve if you're already scoring near the top, but it should be easy to improve over a 25, especially since you say he took it cold and did not prepare at all.

Edited June 30, 2017 by regentrude

[Frances]

I'm not sure what qualifies as a super easy senior, but if he is thinking about engineering he needs to be very well prepared in science and math. Will he be taking or has he had rigorous chemistry, physics, and pre-calc and/ or calculus classes? If you're worried about maturity and he's unsure about career goals, maybe community college would be a good place to start.

[Bootsie]

How much interest has he expressed in college?  As much as overall maturity level, the desire to be at college is important to success at college.  

 

If his ACT score is not a huge concern regarding admissions where he would likely attend or for financial aid considerations, I would focus more on making sure that his senior year is focused on gaining the skills and educational background he needs for college rather than prepping to increase the score.  If he wants to go into engineering he will need a strong math background.

[Mom22ns]

To start with, a 25 is a pretty average ACT score. It won't keep him out of college, but won't get him into highly competitive colleges or get him much scholarship money either. 

 

That said, if he isn't too sure what he wants to do and may not yet have maturity for college, his ACT score is probably not much of an issue at all. It can be raised if he gets motivated.

 

In order to help him figure out where to go next, there are two main questions that I would look at. What does he want to do? and What has he been doing (academically)?

 

Does he want to do something that requires college? Does he have any idea what he wants to do? If he has a goal that requires college, obviously he will need to go somewhere, whether that is a CC or a 4-year school. If not, would working for awhile help him figure it out or would he be better off trying some classes to get a feel for different areas?

 

What has he been doing?

Has he been doing AP level work or has he done some dual enrollment at the CC or other local college? If not, a community college would probably be a great next step for him. He could start that this year as a senior or next year as a college freshman. It would give him a little step into independence and responsibility without a huge cost and usually with a little less challenge level than a 4-year school. A CC can be a great way to explore options. If he's already doing DE or AP level work, and he wants to do something that needs college, then he is probably ready for a 4-year university. It is time to work on the ACT score and start looking at possible school choices. Maybe a tour could get him motivated :). 

 

Boys can be slow to mature and that definitely makes it hard. I knew mine wasn't ready maturity-wise, but we sent him anyway. The first year definitely had some rough spots; the second was much better! He has found direction as he tried different classes and is now much more motivated and that has made a big difference. 

[Scarlett]

He has had Chemistry and trig/precal....He has done K12 all the way and his standardized tests scores have been almost completely advanced level.  I really am a little surprised his ACT was only 25.  He is DE in a Vo-tech program....half day vo-tech half a day high school.  He is doing the AutoCAD program which he will finish the same time he graduates high school in May 2018.  He loves it and is very good at it.  He made a 99% and his teacher loves him.  

 

Personally I think the gap year is a good idea.  I think he should go to work doing drafting and get a feel for the industry.  My husband is a designer and he says my son would excel in the work force learning on the job....XH worries if he doesn't go immediately he won't go at all.  Which is weird because he (xh) went at age 18 and he was totally unprepared and only lasted a semester and then went back when he was 32.  Now I don't think ds should wait to age 32 to go to college but I do feel a gap year would be helpful to him.  

[regentrude]

 I really am a little surprised his ACT was only 25.  

 

I am not. You said he took it cold. This means that he almost definitely ran out of time on some sections, and did not know what to expect on some sections.

Did he actually complete the math and science sections in the allotted time without any prep? The test is not difficult - what's difficult (and trainable) is doing it fast. Cold turkey, I would not expect a high score.

Edited June 29, 2017 by regentrude

[katilac]

A cold ACT score of 25 can almost certainly be improved, and it is well worth the prep to do so. A 25 is about the 79% percentile, whereas a 28 would put him in the top ten percent. 

 

However, with what you've said, I'd strongly consider a gap year. If he refuses to prep for ACT, I'd probably mandate a gap year (as far as paying for it goes). My reasoning is that someone who refuses to do valuable prep, even when they have an easy schedule, is not someone who is ready to work hard at college. 

 

He can always prep, retake, and still take a gap year even is his score improves. It's best to take the ACT without a long break from school, imo. 

 

I see several schools with those initials; which OSU? 

[Scarlett]

A cold ACT score of 25 can almost certainly be improved, and it is well worth the prep to do so. A 25 is about the 79% percentile, whereas a 28 would put him in the top ten percent. 

 

However, with what you've said, I'd strongly consider a gap year. If he refuses to prep for ACT, I'd probably mandate a gap year (as far as paying for it goes). My reasoning is that someone who refuses to do valuable prep, even when they have an easy schedule, is not someone who is ready to work hard at college. 

 

He can always prep, retake, and still take a gap year even is his score improves. It's best to take the ACT without a long break from school, imo. 

 

I see several schools with those initials; which OSU? 

 

 

Oklahoma State University.

 

It isn't that he is refusing to prep.  He is just meh.  And I am worn out with the pushing.  I have pushed him academically for years and honestly if I get him out of high school with a certification that will allow him to go to work I will feel ok.  At some point he has to make up his mind what he wants to do.  And I am not mad or anything.  I just want him to take some responsibility for his choices.

 

He is all around a great kid. No trouble at all.  He works, he goes to vo tech, does his high school work (he hates it though) and he helps others.  He is working 40 hours a week all summer. 

[OnMyOwn]

First of all, a 25 is not a bad score.  That is in the 79th percentile nationwide, which means that out of every 100 students, he scored better than 79 of them.  BUT, if he did no test prep at all, he can very likely bring up that number.  The Official ACT Prep Guide is what we used to prepare.  It has 5 practice tests and just by doing those and practicing his timing, he could increase his score.  My son increased his score 4 points this year using that book.  https://www.amazon.com/Official-ACT-Prep-Guide-2016/dp/1119225418/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1498758474&sr=8-2&keywords=act+test+prep

 

If OSU is a possibility, look and see what their average ACT scores are.  From what I understand, if he wants to consider a school a safety, he should be in their top 25th percentile.  Someone please correct me if I am wrong about that.  Engineering can be a more competitive major though, so you might want to also check what their average ACT scores are for incoming engineers.

Edited June 29, 2017 by OnMyOwn

[Bootsie]

 

 

He is all around a great kid. No trouble at all.  He works, he goes to vo tech, does his high school work (he hates it though) and he helps others.  He is working 40 hours a week all summer. 

 

If he is enjoying working and his vo tech classes, but hates his high school work, I would be inclined to suggest working for a while rather than going straight to college, unless there is some reason to believe that he would enjoy college academic work more than he is enjoying high school work.

[Scarlett]

That is how I am thinking too. Now to get his dad on board so ds isn't pressured by him to go too soon.

[RootAnn]

To start with, a 25 is a pretty average ACT score. It won't keep him out of college, but won't get him into highly competitive colleges or get him much scholarship money either. 

 

As others have pointed out, that score is not average - but above the 75% of ACT-takers. I think a more accurate statement might be that it is a "pretty average ACT score for engineering majors."

 

I will also echo that improvements are possible for those who prep on areas of weakness (speed, types of questions most missed), who need to learn more about a subject (especially math), or who have to brush up on topics they've forgotten (grammar).

 

Good luck.

[RootAnn]

For OSU, a 24 ACT guarantees admission

https://admissions.okstate.edu/information/freshmen/admission-requirements.html

 

but that puts the student in the lowest quartile

http://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/ohio/ohio-state-university-main-campus/admission/

 

The first link was Oklahoma State, but the second was Ohio State.

I think this link says that above a 24 ACT puts the student in the top half of the admission class (not necessarily compared to the engineering students). A 27 is in the top 75% there.

[creekland]

I don't know about OSU, but that score is NOT average for Engineering majors at any of the colleges I know.  It's well below average.  OSU guarantees admission, but do they guarantee admissions into any major?  Most schools don't.  If he's entering in the lower quartile with a "meh" work ethic his odds of succeeding at engineering aren't all that great TBH.

 

I'd suggest two things.  Have him tour OSU and have him shadow a drafter for a day (or two).  Actually, you could have him shadow an engineer too, so three things.  Let him decide what appeals.  If he gets motivated for engineering/college, then he could get motivated to prep for the ACT to see if he can get into the program.  If he likes drafting, I'd see what the next step is for working with that after his Vo-Tech classes are complete.  It could be a technical school or a technical program at a community college (those would be the options here).  The latter is likely to be cheaper and just as good if there's one around you.  If in doubt, check with his Vo-Tech teacher and/or companies who hire drafters.  They'll know where good programs are.

 

He's at the point where he needs to see what he wants to do and start heading down that path.   ;)

[Scarlett]

I think his math was a 26.....

 

His vo tech class will be touring OSU this next semester. And someone from OSU came to visit last semester....he got a course sheet for a 2 year degree in design which is what Dh does,

[RootAnn]

I don't know about OSU, but that score is NOT average for Engineering majors at any of the colleges I know.  It's well below average.  OSU guarantees admission, but do they guarantee admissions into any major?  Most schools don't.  If he's entering in the lower quartile with a "meh" work ethic his odds of succeeding at engineering aren't all that great TBH.

 

Here's an article I found with "average SAT scores for" different majors (from the College Board statistics). They are older SAT scores. Engineering lists a 1620. One old-SAT to new-SAT (with ACT scores on the side) conversion chart says that's about a 24. The College Board concordance tables (which I don't necessarily agree with) agrees with the 24.

 

State colleges sometimes have lower requirements (and lower averages) than the top tier places that lots of WTM Boardies consider. [DH & I both majored in engineering back in the dark ages. I would agree that engineering majors at top tier schools score much higher, on average.]

 

I agree with the other parts of your post, but I think it could be said that a meh work ethic doesn't bode well for any college major.

[Arcadia]

There is a high chance of a higher score for a cold score of 25. If your son is willing he should prep and get a better score.

 

I don't know about OSU, but that score is NOT average for Engineering majors at any of the colleges I know. It's well below average.

For OSU engineering

 

"COMPOSITE ACT AND SAT AVERAGES OF NEW FRESHMEN BY COLLEGE OKLAHOMA STATE UNIVERSITY

FALL SEMESTER 2016

 

ACT composite 27.5

SAT composite 1,213". Page 4 of https://irim.okstate.edu/sites/default/files/StudentProfile/2016/2016AcademicInformation.pdf

 

For average ACT scores of 2016 freshmen copied from page 3 of same link, it was

Composite 24.8

Math 23.6

English 24.4

Science 24.7

Reading 25.9

[Scarlett]

http://go.osuit.edu/student/admissions/requirement_criteria

 

They don't list an ACT requirement. Just that participation in the ACT test is required.

[creekland]

Here's an article I found with "average SAT scores for" different majors (from the College Board statistics). They are older SAT scores. Engineering lists a 1620. One old-SAT to new-SAT (with ACT scores on the side) conversion chart says that's about a 24. The College Board concordance tables (which I don't necessarily agree with) agrees with the 24.

 

State colleges sometimes have lower requirements (and lower averages) than the top tier places that lots of WTM Boardies consider. [DH & I both majored in engineering back in the dark ages. I would agree that engineering majors at top tier schools score much higher, on average.]

 

I agree with the other parts of your post, but I think it could be said that a meh work ethic doesn't bode well for any college major.

 

State schools are often the better schools for engineering.  They can afford more high tech to teach with.

 

Here's a site showing OSU's engineering entrance scores for engineering (scroll down to you get to ACT):

 

http://engineering-schools.startclass.com/l/280/Oklahoma-State-University

 

25 percentile is a 25

75 percentile is a 30

 

Combine score with a meh work ethic and I'd be concerned.

[klmama]

If he's not likely to put in the effort needed at college, I vote for at least one gap year to work at a job using CAD.  A friend's brilliant ds completely skipped college after taking every CAD course he could take in high school; at 21, he's now earning $70,000 a year.  Obviously, not everyone in CAD earns that, but he's a hard worker and found the right job.  At this point, he has no intention of ever attending college.   

[Scarlett]

Here's an article I found with "average SAT scores for" different majors (from the College Board statistics). They are older SAT scores. Engineering lists a 1620. One old-SAT to new-SAT (with ACT scores on the side) conversion chart says that's about a 24. The College Board concordance tables (which I don't necessarily agree with) agrees with the 24.

 

State colleges sometimes have lower requirements (and lower averages) than the top tier places that lots of WTM Boardies consider. [DH & I both majored in engineering back in the dark ages. I would agree that engineering majors at top tier schools score much higher, on average.]

 

I agree with the other parts of your post, but I think it could be said that a meh work ethic doesn't bode well for any college major.

To be clear he has a great work ethic. He LOVES his job. He LOVES his AutoCAD course. He LOVES his volunteer work. He is highly dependable and well thought of by everyone. I believe he is very very bright. But he is burned out with his academics. I was the same way except less smart. :). I could not wait to graduate, get my own apartment, job, life.

 

That is why I think he could really benefit from a gap year of working in drafting and/ or a hearty amount of volunteer work while he stays home.

 

You guys have been super helpful in helping me sort these issues out so I can speak thoughtfully to him as the year progresses. I feel a great peace about it overall. I just want him to be happy and healthy.

[Scarlett]

If he's not likely to put in the effort needed at college, I vote for at least one gap year to work at a job using CAD. A friend's brilliant ds completely skipped college after taking every CAD course he could take in high school; at 21, he's now earning $70,000 a year. Obviously, not everyone in CAD earns that, but he's a hard worker and found the right job. At this point, he has no intention of ever attending college.

Dh feels certain ds could take that path. He knows many who do that well or better with no degree. And he is in the field and has a lot of connections. Xh is not supportive of that. But honestly knowing my kid like I do I think college...well engineering degree specifically, would just overwhelm him at this point in his life. A year or two of working will help him assess the entire situation better.

[Bootsie]

http://go.osuit.edu/student/admissions/requirement_criteria

 

They don't list an ACT requirement. Just that participation in the ACT test is required.

It looks as if you are considering Oklahoma State University Institute of Technology campus rather than the OSU Stillwater campus.  The two campuses will have different admissions requirements.   

[creekland]

http://go.osuit.edu/student/admissions/requirement_criteria

 

They don't list an ACT requirement. Just that participation in the ACT test is required.

 

Yes, this is what is called a Tech School in our region.  It's not an "Engineering" School where one can get an engineering degree like the rest of us were thinking.  Engineering Technology is different - not as in depth - but still quite useful for jobs.  I'm not sure how in depth your vo-tech school is, but a 2 year degree from OSUIT (or similar) might actually be needed to get a decent job in drafting, etc.  Again, the vo-tech teacher should know.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about burn out from "high school" leading to burn out in college TBH.  Many students (including myself) were tired of school after high school, but loved college.  If he's loving his drafting, he might really enjoy OSUIT - esp knowing it's leading directly to his job in the future.  They say they have a 90% placement rate for grads.  See if you can find entry level salary, etc, but it sounds promising.

 

Your XH ought to be happy too if he heads this route.  A 2 year degree IS a degree.  ;)  It's all many students need...

[Scarlett]

It looks as if you are considering Oklahoma State University Institute of Technology campus rather than the OSU Stillwater campus. The two campuses will have different admissions requirements.

Yes, I guess so. Although in practice it seems no one thinks of it as different from the other campuses. Except that it seems to be where people go to be engineers. Stillwater is too far for him to stay at home.

[Scarlett]

Yes, this is what is called a Tech School in our region. It's not an "Engineering" School where one can get an engineering degree like the rest of us were thinking. Engineering Technology is different - not as in depth - but still quite useful for jobs. I'm not sure how in depth your vo-tech school is, but a 2 year degree from OSUIT (or similar) might actually be needed to get a decent job in drafting, etc. Again, the vo-tech teacher should know.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about burn out from "high school" leading to burn out in college TBH. Many students (including myself) were tired of school after high school, but loved college. If he's loving his drafting, he might really enjoy OSUIT - esp knowing it's leading directly to his job in the future. They say they have a 90% placement rate for grads. See if you can find entry level salary, etc, but it sounds promising.

 

Your XH ought to be happy too if he heads this route. A 2 year degree IS a degree. ;) It's all many students need...

Dh says he has never been asked which campus he attended.

 

There are a lot of drafting jobs and engineering jobs in this area. His vo tech teacher told me that any of his graduates who wanted a job got a job every year. And the pay is decent. If ds got the high end of that he could support himself as he gains experience. Then he could get a two year degree or a 4 year from OSUIT.

 

I thnk there is a healthy dose of fear that he won't be able to hack it. He thinks that 25 on his ACT is proof he isn't as smart as I have always told him. But that is a theme with him....he thinks I am delusional about his potential. Lol....never mind his test scores over all the years.

[creekland]

Dh says he has never been asked which campus he attended.

 

There are a lot of drafting jobs and engineering jobs in this area. His vo tech teacher told me that any of his graduates who wanted a job got a job every year. And the pay is decent. If ds got the high end of that he could support himself as he gains experience. Then he could get a two year degree or a 4 year from OSUIT.

 

I thnk there is a healthy dose of fear that he won't be able to hack it. He thinks that 25 on his ACT is proof he isn't as smart as I have always told him. But that is a theme with him....he thinks I am delusional about his potential. Lol....never mind his test scores over all the years.

 

Please don't be offended, but engineering technology grads aren't officially "engineers," even if that term is used locally to you.  They are technicians.  (aka Use it locally to fit in, but beware on larger message boards that your term is off.)

 

Here's the ABET (engineering certification group) with their explanation of the differences between the two:

 

http://www.abet.org/accreditation/new-to-accreditation/engineering-vs-engineering-technology/

 

An ACT of 25 with good grades, etc, is definitely good enough for an engineering tech degree - at least - around here it is - and there are good jobs available in that field.  The only thing we caution students with that path around here is being careful with debt if going to private tech schools.  Sometimes they are super expensive.  While they lead to jobs, the jobs don't pay enough for their loans.

 

If your vo-tech program is good enough to get a start all by itself, that's definitely worth consideration - ask what the difference would be (job-wise) between going directly to a job vs getting this two year degree and keep those thoughts in mind when making a decision.  Pending what you find out, either way could be ideal for him. 

[regentrude]

The first link was Oklahoma State, but the second was Ohio State.

I think this link says that above a 24 ACT puts the student in the top half of the admission class (not necessarily compared to the engineering students). A 27 is in the top 75% there.

 

Oh, sorry! I was puzzled about this but did not pay enough attention, Will fix it.

[regentrude]

To be clear he has a great work ethic. He LOVES his job. He LOVES his AutoCAD course. He LOVES his volunteer work. He is highly dependable and well thought of by everyone. I believe he is very very bright. But he is burned out with his academics.

 

That is why I think he could really benefit from a gap year of working in drafting and/ or a hearty amount of volunteer work while he stays home.

 

With the bolded: you are absolutely right, he should not attend college right away. Work load in an engineering degree will be much more rigorous than whatever he did in high school - if he's burnt out from high school, going to engineering school now would be a mistake and hee woudl likely not be successful.

[creekland]

With the bolded: you are absolutely right, he should not attend college right away. Work load in an engineering degree will be much more rigorous than whatever he did in high school - if he's burnt out from high school, going to engineering school now would be a mistake and hee woudl likely not be successful.

 

I agree with you 100% for traditional engineering.  However, for engineering tech, many kids love it even if they were burned out in high school.  They love the hands on "real work application" aspect that makes sense to them and it's nowhere near as in depth as "Engineering."  If his vo-tech program is providing enough for a job, that's perfectly fine.  Not all do though.  It will depend upon what employers want to see and the OP can easily check into that.

[regentrude]

I agree with you 100% for traditional engineering.  However, for engineering tech, many kids love it even if they were burned out in high school.  They love the hands on "real work application" aspect that makes sense to them and it's nowhere near as in depth as "Engineering."  If his vo-tech program is providing enough for a job, that's perfectly fine.  Not all do though.  It will depend upon what employers want to see and the OP can easily check into that.

 

I had not gotten that far and was still under the impression she means actual engineering, as she said initially, not engineering tech.

Huge difference.

[Scarlett]

I am well aware of what an engineer is.

[elegantlion]

Ex and I were concerned about a gap year for ds. Ex always thought he'd go to college after earning some money, but as the song says "the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal" and he opted to keep working and not do college. He regretted it. 

 

IMO, the gap year option can work or not work and can be dependent upon what your circle of friends and your son's circle of friends do. If it's mostly blue collar workers who scoff at college for the "elite,"  then a gap year might not be helpful. If they are encouraging and ds has a productive year planned, then it could work. 

 

I know you have a strong community, so I would explore how they might support ds emotionally. 

 

As for ds, he was not a huge fan of high school. College he likes because he's actually taking less classes and he's studying what he wants. I think it's good because he's around forward thinking people who are thinking about their futures not just the weekend. As someone who did not attend college at 18, I see the difference in opportunity and attitude in ds. 

 

We have an engineering tech program with some transferability to engineering programs at other schools. Ds was considering that originally, but opted to stay here and major in math, something else I don't think he really considered until starting college. 

[wendyroo]

I am well aware of what an engineer is.

 

Except that you said...

 

Yes, I guess so. Although in practice it seems no one thinks of it as different from the other campuses. Except that it seems to be where people go to be engineers. Stillwater is too far for him to stay at home.

 

Which is completely false.  No one graduates from OSUIT as an engineer.  OSUIT does not offer engineering degrees.

 

Degrees matter.  Titles matter.  A paramedic is not a doctor just because they both work in the medical field and share some of the same training and information.  An engineering technician is not an engineer.

 

They are both good jobs, there is nothing wrong with being an engineering tech, but as an engineer who spent years studying rigorous upper level math and science, I do feel strongly that it is fair and proper to recognize the difference and call a spade a spade.

 

Wendy

[creekland]

I am well aware of what an engineer is.

 

It wasn't worded correctly in this thread based upon the links you gave us.  That's what I (and others) used to offer our thoughts.  Sorry if we were wrong, but we can only go off of what we read.

 

It can be common for folks to call technicians "engineers" in certain circles and the title of the degree "Engineering Tech" is misleading enough that folks who don't know often mistake those degrees for engineering degrees.  ABET has that page answering the question about the difference because there are these misunderstandings.

 

Even if you know/knew, others reading can benefit from that part of the thread.

[Arcadia]

There are a lot of drafting jobs and engineering jobs in this area. His vo tech teacher told me that any of his graduates who wanted a job got a job every year. And the pay is decent. If ds got the high end of that he could support himself as he gains experience. Then he could get a two year degree or a 4 year from OSUIT.

What major does he intend to take at OSUIT? What is his long term plan if something like the Detroit car slump happen in your region?

 

I was a civil engineering intern in the early 90s supervising a engineering technician who has an associate degree. My mentor does the signing off as a professional engineer. I could actually draft better than him so the company paid me overtime to do his work.

I was also doing freelance drafting jobs for a friend's uncle who wanted to renovate his office space. He drew his plans on pencil and paper and I just drew them in AutoCAD for him to submit to the relevant authorities for permit. I was an undergrad then. We actually did the tasks while at Starbucks using my laptop.

Now it is so easy to outsource a drafting job unless the company need a drafting technician on-site at a construction site or shipyard. I can help out a self employed friend in another country do a drafting job for her and just email/Dropbox her the AutoCAD files. Architecture, civil engineering and mechanical engineering have compulsory drafting classes to pass at my alma mater. Even my electrical engineering husband had to pass the mechanical drawing class required for all first year engineering students at our alma mater.

 

 If his vo-tech program is providing enough for a job, that's perfectly fine.  Not all do though.  It will depend upon what employers want to see and the OP can easily check into that.

I agree. It is very location and company specific. Some companies would pay for further education with a bond period for their engineering technicians.

[Scarlett]

Except that you said...

 

 

Which is completely false. No one graduates from OSUIT as an engineer. OSUIT does not offer engineering degrees.

 

Degrees matter. Titles matter. A paramedic is not a doctor just because they both work in the medical field and share some of the same training and information. An engineering technician is not an engineer.

 

They are both good jobs, there is nothing wrong with being an engineering tech, but as an engineer who spent years studying rigorous upper level math and science, I do feel strongly that it is fair and proper to recognize the difference and call a spade a spade.

 

Wendy

Wow, ok so sorry you felt lumped in with the lessers, but in your righteous indignation you misunderstood me. Stillwater is where people go to be engineers--you know the real kind.

[Scarlett]

What major does he intend to take at OSUIT? What is his long term plan if something like the Detroit car slump happen in your region?

 

I was a civil engineering intern in the early 90s supervising a engineering technician who has an associate degree. My mentor does the signing off as a professional engineer. I could actually draft better than him so the company paid me overtime to do his work.

I was also doing freelance drafting jobs for a friend's uncle who wanted to renovate his office space. He drew his plans on pencil and paper and I just drew them in AutoCAD for him to submit to the relevant authorities for permit. I was an undergrad then. We actually did the tasks while at Starbucks using my laptop.

Now it is so easy to outsource a drafting job unless the company need a drafting technician on-site at a construction site or shipyard. I can help out a self employed friend in another country do a drafting job for her and just email/Dropbox her the AutoCAD files. Architecture, civil engineering and mechanical engineering have compulsory drafting classes to pass at my alma mater. Even my electrical engineering husband had to pass the mechanical drawing class required for all first year engineering students at our alma mater.

 

I agree. It is very location and company specific. Some companies would pay for further education with a bond period for their engineering technicians.

I think what you are trying to say, but I am not sure, is that anyone can draft and it is probably dying out?

[Scarlett]

It wasn't worded correctly in this thread based upon the links you gave us. That's what I (and others) used to offer our thoughts. Sorry if we were wrong, but we can only go off of what we read.

 

It can be common for folks to call technicians "engineers" in certain circles and the title of the degree "Engineering Tech" is misleading enough that folks who don't know often mistake those degrees for engineering degrees. ABET has that page answering the question about the difference because there are these misunderstandings.

 

Even if you know/knew, others reading can benefit from that part of the thread.

My husband has an Associates in civil engineering. OSUIT was just OSU Okmulgee when he got his degree...it is all changed up,now and the focus is engineering tech ....they even have a BT now. My husband works in the engineering field, he is very knowledgable and has lots of experience, but I never call him an engineer.

 

So sorry for the confusion.

[Scarlett]

This thread is a perfect example of the problems kids have navigating education and training beyond high school. Not everyone cares about a title or a degree from a certain universi. They just want some skills and a way to make a decent living.

[Arcadia]

I think what you are trying to say, but I am not sure, is that anyone can draft and it is probably dying out?

Nope. What I meant was don't stop at Vo-tech followed by OSUIT. Have a tentative long term plan by seeing if there is any employer sponsored upgrading path to a engineering degree and then professional engineer certification. Basically think long term.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Arcadia

[Scarlett]

Nope. What I meant was don't stop at Vo-tech followed by OSUIT. Have a tentative long term plan by seeing if there is any employer sponsored upgrading path to a engineering degree and then professional engineer certification. Basically think long term.

Well Dh has suggested that very thing to him. Go to work, get some training, see if you like it enough to pursue more schooling and work toward that. I think that is a good idea.

[creekland]

My husband has an Associates in civil engineering. OSUIT was just OSU Okmulgee when he got his degree...it is all changed up,now and the focus is engineering tech ....they even have a BT now. My husband works in the engineering field, he is very knowledgable and has lots of experience, but I never call him an engineer.

 

So sorry for the confusion.

Personally, I'm not losing any sleep over it. ;)

 

I'm used to many folks (teens and parents) not always knowing things outside their experiences, so default that way with my thinking. I know it's also quite possible to know what "you" (general you) mean when typing and just not state enough details for others.

 

No big deal either way really. There's nothing wrong with either job. Our country needs both types. As always, pick the best path for the student and we all win.

 

I think you have a good plan in mind, but I would still have him shadow people doing both jobs. With a 25 cold, he could be right up there with higher level students if he were motivated to do so himself. If he's content with drafting or tech, great. By shadowing he should know which path he feels drawn toward.

[creekland]

This thread is a perfect example of the problems kids have navigating education and training beyond high school. Not everyone cares about a title or a degree from a certain universi. They just want some skills and a way to make a decent living.

The main problem is the law cares. My PE Engineer hubby does all sorts of surveying for his job, but he can only do engineering surveying legally. When a property needs to be surveyed for a deed it has to be signed off by a legal surveyor. Such is life.

 

Then too, one needs a license for each state one works in, or one needs a licensed engineer in that state to sign off, etc.

 

The law can get really picky about who calls themselves an engineer even if the common person doesn't. Ditto with doctors and counselors and other professional jobs.

 

And, of course, you likely know this already, but there are probably readers who don't, so it's worth explaining IMO.

[Scarlett]

Ex and I were concerned about a gap year for ds. Ex always thought he'd go to college after earning some money, but as the song says "the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal" and he opted to keep working and not do college. He regretted it.

 

IMO, the gap year option can work or not work and can be dependent upon what your circle of friends and your son's circle of friends do. If it's mostly blue collar workers who scoff at college for the "elite," then a gap year might not be helpful. If they are encouraging and ds has a productive year planned, then it could work.

 

I know you have a strong community, so I would explore how they might support ds emotionally.

 

As for ds, he was not a huge fan of high school. College he likes because he's actually taking less classes and he's studying what he wants. I think it's good because he's around forward thinking people who are thinking about their futures not just the weekend. As someone who did not attend college at 18, I see the difference in opportunity and attitude in ds.

 

We have an engineering tech program with some transferability to engineering programs at other schools. Ds was considering that originally, but opted to stay here and major in math, something else I don't think he really considered until starting college.

I don't think there is anyone in all his world who would scoff at him and call college or tech school. elite.

 

I agree a gap year could go either way. But so can college......even a tech school.

[Scarlett]

The main problem is the law cares. My PE Engineer hubby does all sorts of surveying for his job, but he can only do engineering surveying legally. When a property needs to be surveyed for a deed it has to be signed off by a legal surveyor. Such is life.

 

Then too, one needs a license for each state one works in, or one needs a licensed engineer in that state to sign off, etc.

 

The law can get really picky about who calls themselves an engineer even if the common person doesn't. Ditto with doctors and counselors and other professional jobs.

 

And, of course, you likely know this already, but there are probably readers who don't, so it's worth explaining IMO.

Of course. But no one on this thread was worried about the law.

[Arcadia]

Of course. But no one on this thread was worried about the law.

I do. I want an ABET certified school of engineering for my bachelors in civil engineering, my brother's bachelors in mechanical engineering and my numerous cousins bachelors in engineering. I could have practiced as a civil engineer in the US after passing local state specific exams because ABET recognized my foreign university's degree. I would need a few years of working experience here to sit for the professional engineer exam.

 

Like I said upthread, the draftsmen did most of the hard work and had a lesser hourly wage rate while I had a better rate as an intern and was supervising them. One draftman was offended that he had to pass his work to me for checking when I was in my early 20s and he was in his early 30s. Doesn't help that I was the only female in that department other than the secretary.

 

The reason I change to computer engineering for my postgrad was that computer graphics programming (immersion/simulation graphics) pays better short term and long term than a professional civil engineer where I am from (no offense to creekland's husband). I was making more per hour than my husband did with his PhD Engineering. I hope I make sense.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Arcadia

[creekland]

I do. I want an ABET certified school of engineering for my bachelors in civil engineering, my brother's bachelors in mechanical engineering and my numerous cousins bachelors in engineering. I could have practiced as a civil engineer in the US after passing local state specific exams because ABET recognized my foreign university's degree. I would need a few years of working experience here to sit for the professional engineer exam.

 

Like I said upthread, the draftsmen did most of the hard work and had a lesser hourly wage rate while I had a better rate as an intern and was supervising them. One draftman was offended that he had to pass his work to me for checking when I was in my early 20s and he was in his early 30s. Doesn't help that I was the only female in that department other than the secretary.

 

The reason I change to computer engineering for my postgrad was that computer graphics programming (immersion/simulation graphics) pays better short term and long term than a professional civil engineer where I am from (no offense to creekland's husband). I was making more per hour than my husband did with his PhD Engineering. I hope I make sense.

 

No offense taken.  He really likes his job and is super good at it, so the money is mainly just a bonus.  If we'd wanted more, he'd have expanded worldwide a couple of years ago when he had the opportunity to do so (when he was doing projects worldwide).  Neither of us wanted it.  It would take away too much family time.  He wouldn't have an interest in computer graphics...

 

I don't have an interest in either.   :laugh:   I'm glad I have the opportunity to earn comparatively very little while influencing a segment of the next generation.