MinivanMom Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Thanks! Edited June 9, 2017 by MinivanMom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) The request makes no sense, because a just-started elementary student and a long-term-advanced teen cannot possibly be on compatible levels to perform together. It should be possible to explain this to your friend. The levels don't match, period. Now, perhaps your DD would be inclined to do something with the other girl more like a mentor? Support the little one in some way? Something that is not a co-performance? Edited June 9, 2017 by regentrude 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 No. Not unreasonable. The girl should be looking for duet partners that are her age and skill level. It might be nice if your DD was interested in coaching, for her to coach the younger girl. Or if your DD knew how to choreograph she could assist that way. BUT it sounds like this woman is just pushy and if you gave her some in like coaching she would push for more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Could you tell her that when her daughter gets to the same level as yours then they could perform together? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) I have a friend with two daughters about 8 years apart. Oldest is a accomplished pianist. Youngest was just starting out. Oldest played a duet at a recital with little sister. It was precious. It was blatantly obvious that oldest was being a kind, encouraging older sister. Youngest obviously adored older and was thrilled to be "so big". I think it can be a beautiful experience for both without downplaying older's skill and experience. Edited June 9, 2017 by FriedClams 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I have a friend with two daughters about 8 years apart. Oldest is a accomplished pianist. Youngest was just starting out. Oldest played a duet at a recital with little sister. It was precious. It was blatantly obvious that oldest was being a kind, encouraging older sister. Youngest obviously adored older and was thrilled to be "so big". I think it can be a beautiful experience for both without downplaying older's skill and experience. These girls aren't sisters It doesn't sound like the families are really close It doesn't sound like they study at the same studio and older participants are buddies with younger participants at that studio. It sounds the mom is trying force a relationship solely to make her young DD look good, maybe to scope out an opportunity way beyond anyone in her dd's group. Unless there's more to the relationship between the girls (not just the moms), I'd be supporting the older girl not doing this. I've seen some of this behavior by moms at my dds ballet studio. It's a little creepy. It doesn't result in the younger child gaining skills or improving at a faster rate. It does result in resentment from the older girls and from girls at the child's level. Sometimes relationships come about in part because a younger child works very hard on her own and the older students see that and respect that. A parent inserting herself is just a big negative. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I have a friend with two daughters about 8 years apart. Oldest is a accomplished pianist. Youngest was just starting out. Oldest played a duet at a recital with little sister. It was precious. It was blatantly obvious that oldest was being a kind, encouraging older sister. Youngest obviously adored older and was thrilled to be "so big". I think it can be a beautiful experience for both without downplaying older's skill and experience. This is not the same situation at all. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I have a friend with two daughters about 8 years apart. Oldest is a accomplished pianist. Youngest was just starting out. Oldest played a duet at a recital with little sister. It was precious. It was blatantly obvious that oldest was being a kind, encouraging older sister. Youngest obviously adored older and was thrilled to be "so big". I think it can be a beautiful experience for both without downplaying older's skill and experience. I agree it could perhaps be done, depending on what the performance event actually is. However, this other girl's mom is going about this the wrong way! It's kind of odd to me that she seems to presume her dd's performance opportunities are based on her (mom's) machinations. Wouldn't the instructor/coach/event organizer, not her, be the one to slate the performers? OP, it is odd and I think your feelings are understandable. If your dd would ever want to serve as a mentor to a younger student, that might be a lovely relationship, but it doesn't sound like that's what this woman is asking for. It sounds more like she just wants a foot in the door to the spotlight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 You are not being unreasonable. I would help DD come up with some socially acceptable versions of NEVER! if that mom bypasses you and goes straight to her. ;) "Thanks, but that will not work for me. Excuse me, I need to run." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinaPagnato Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just for clarity, why is it that both your and your DD are opposed to performing with this younger girl? I can think of different responses depending on your reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 When the mother went so far as to order duets before receiving permission, she showed you she was crazy...I would say that you and dd should be as blunt as necessary so she'll understand that her coattail riding plan is a NO. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 When the mother went so far as to order duets before receiving permission, she showed you she was crazy...I would say that you and dd should be as blunt as necessary so she'll understand that her coattail riding plan is a NO. THIS!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 The request makes no sense, because a just-started elementary student and a long-term-advanced teen cannot possibly be on compatible levels to perform together. It should be possible to explain this to your friend. The levels don't match, period. Now, perhaps your DD would be inclined to do something with the other girl more like a mentor? Support the little one in some way? Something that is not a co-performance? :iagree: I think a mentoring relationship makes way more sense. Our music school has something called a buddy program where a teen musician partners with a younger student. They meet maybe once a month at someone's, perform for a each other, maybe work on a teacher/student duet and maybe perform that informally somewhere. They don't work as peers. In our large music school, some parents will even pay older musicians to come over and do this kind of thing. But the older kids aren't doing it in competitions or giving up their own opportunities to do it. I have an advanced musician that has been a scholarship winner, performs advanced repertoire, is now taking lessons in 3 instruments, etc. I've had a number of comments from parents of beginner kids that make me think they just really don't get the level of work or commitment to get to that high level. Or even hear it when they listen to kids perform. Maybe in a couple years! :lol: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) .. Edited June 9, 2017 by MinivanMom 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) .. Edited June 9, 2017 by MinivanMom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I'm assuming this is an instrument. no - it's not being divaish. it's probably being much more realistic about the differences in their abilities than the other mother has. I agree - she's probably just very . . . over enthusiastic. not having the little girl play with your daughter is also a kindness to the little girl as she would notice the difference as well as most of the audience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 These girls aren't sisters It doesn't sound like the families are really close It doesn't sound like they study at the same studio and older participants are buddies with younger participants at that studio. It sounds the mom is trying force a relationship solely to make her young DD look good, maybe to scope out an opportunity way beyond anyone in her dd's group. Unless there's more to the relationship between the girls (not just the moms), I'd be supporting the older girl not doing this. I've seen some of this behavior by moms at my dds ballet studio. It's a little creepy. It doesn't result in the younger child gaining skills or improving at a faster rate. It does result in resentment from the older girls and from girls at the child's level. Sometimes relationships come about in part because a younger child works very hard on her own and the older students see that and respect that. A parent inserting herself is just a big negative. Totally misread...thought it was sisters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) - just say - sorry, that won't work. rinse repeat. teach your dd the same. or if they are in the same studio - ask what "prof___ said about her performing?" (anything.) it's possible she thinks by inserting herself into doing a duet with your dd - she can bypass the teacher. in which case - it really needs to be stopped. Edited June 9, 2017 by gardenmom5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Would it be possible to subtly involve the teacher or leader of the group? are they part of the same organization, or just doing the same thing at differently places- I don't know what it is, but is it like they both play the accordion but for different folk groups, or are they more like first and last chair Aeolian Harp players in the big city youth orchestra? ;) Wide -age-gap siblings at a recital can be sweet, but a new student of any age and an advanced student performer (in a role other than teacher/accompaniment) can sometimes be painful to watch. Perhaps the teacher or group leader can let the new students know how pieces or performers are chosen for the workshops? Somehow, new families to this activity have to become informed as to how things are done. My background is dance- and performances would be based in class level or audition, never because some mom bought music and costumes and declared her child would dance Odile while the teen danced Odette from Swan Lake. Maybe gently bring it up when the mom talks about the music she selected? Let her know that it sounds interesting, or whatever positive phrase that's appropriate, but that music selections and performers/groups/ensembles are decided by the teachers, and you hope she will be able to return it. Or that your daughter is only able to practice works selected by her teachers, or whatever the situation is. Then tell her you're so glad he daughter is so eager to work hard, and you hope she is able to find a suitable duet partner when her teacher believes she is ready. Just stick with the angle of educating her. If the mom truly doesn't know, she'll be thankful. If she's crazy, at least you've given her solid reasons why it won't work rather than excuses that she can counter endlessly in an attempt to wear you down. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 What is the activity? That would be helpful to know. DD17 is a grand national champion dancer. She has worked hard, obtained a competitive skill level, yada, yada. Nonetheless, she frequently performs with those who have less skill level than she. Dancing can be modified to accommodate multiple skill levels within one routine. She has been blessed over the years to perform with those better than she was at the time. She can return that spirit of sharing to the sport. Plus, she enjoys the encouragement she gives younger or less skilled dancers. Is it frustrating sometimes? Sure. But, she remembers how awed she was at the older, more skilled dancers once. She recalls being the young kid in some more advanced numbers. She is grateful for the opportunities others gave her. Having said all that, I do not know your daughter's activity. Is it something that can show off the skill levels of both children? Can your daughter's role in the activity appear to be that of a mentor, rather than an equal. If so, she might be wise to do the duet as it will bolster her standing in the activity's community of followers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Not to be a tattletale, but depending on your relationship with the teacher, would it be worth mentioning? Because maybe the other mom will start working on it from that angle, kwim? And she might insinuate that she's spoken with you about it already and try to make it appear that you and your dd are in the loop/all for it. Or maybe not, you can best anticipate how your leader would react to such suggestions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) .. Edited June 9, 2017 by MinivanMom 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Having said all that, I do not know your daughter's activity. Is it something that can show off the skill levels of both children? Can your daughter's role in the activity appear to be that of a mentor, rather than an equal. If so, she might be wise to do the duet as it will bolster her standing in the activity's community of followers. How much skill could a student who's only been playing an instrument for a few months have to show off? This sounds like it would be akin to having 5th grade band students perform in an ensemble at a concert with high schoolers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) I have an advanced musician that has been a scholarship winner, performs advanced repertoire, is now taking lessons in 3 instruments, etc. I've had a number of comments from parents of beginner kids that make me think they just really don't get the level of work or commitment to get to that high level. Or even hear it when they listen to kids perform. Maybe in a couple years! :lol: You are exactly right: they cannot hear the difference when they hear the kids perform. It takes years for the students/musicians to train their ears to hear tiny details and then to figure out how to make improvements in their playing to be able to create those details. Most people simply haven't had that training and cannot hear those details. To them, someone who has been playing for 5 years and is an advanced high school musician can sound exactly like a college conservatory student or even a professional... because they simply do not have the trained ear to tell the difference. Edited to add that I was not responding to Wooly Socks when I wrote this (below): Honestly, music is a "group sport" and even professionals play with others at wildly varying different levels of musicianship and skill *all* the time. Playing music is not a sequential thing and all levels can play together all the time. One person's skill level does not describe nor equate to that of the other person they happen to be playing with at the time. (Even student musicians sitting next to one another/sharing a stand in an orchestra can be a very different playing levels.) Edited June 20, 2017 by zaichiki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) You are exactly right: they cannot hear the difference when they hear the kids perform. It takes years for the students/musicians to train their ears to hear tiny details and then to figure out how to make improvements in their playing to be able to create those details. Most people simply haven't had that training and cannot hear those details. To them, someone who has been playing for 5 years and is an advanced high school musician can sound exactly like a college conservatory student or even a professional... because they simply do not have the trained ear to tell the difference. Edited to add that I was not responding to Wooly Socks when I wrote this (below): Honestly, music is a "group sport" and even professionals play with others at wildly varying different levels of musicianship and skill *all* the time. Playing music is not a sequential thing and all levels can play together all the time. One person's skill level does not describe nor equate to that of the other person they happen to be playing with at the time. (Even student musicians sitting next to one another/sharing a stand in an orchestra can be a very different playing levels.) :iagree: with both comments. My son has been taking voice lessons for 4 years. I sit in lessons (they're in our home) and take notes. Over the years we've gone to many voice performances and operas and musicals (kids to professionals). It absolutely BURNS my ears now to hear the untrained trying to sing. The Tony Awards this year about killed me. LOL. Keep your day job Kevin. :lol: Edited June 20, 2017 by WoolySocks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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