If you do not drink alcohol

[regentrude]

Right, and people have no problem saying they are milk intolerant or allergic to shellfish etc.  Even saying one is vegan is not taboo, though it suggests one is morally opposed to things their friends / hosts are eating / serving.  What is it about wine that makes people so defensive - especially knowing that there are many non-judgmental reasons why people may choose to abstain?

 

Maybe the people who act defensively have been on the receiving end of judgment and lecturing about their drinking?

For example, have been judged and cirticized for having alcoholic beverages at a party that included children?

[Guest]

I understand why people avoid saying "I don't drink." I explained my reasons why I don't go to any lengths to avoid saying that upthread. But if someone offered you a cigarette, would you not just say "No thanks, I don't smoke,"? Would you stop at No thanks, so people don't feel judged?

Yeah, but people don't really offer cigarettes anymore, the way they offer alcohol. Smoking is not endorsed and smoking in other people's homes is not encouraged. I haven't seen a person smoke in someone else's home since, I don't know...1987? Smoking affects others around you in a way that having a beer or glass of wine doesn't.

 

I don't think it's horribly judgemental yo say, "I don't drink," but I'm saying, semantically, it creates more tension to say, "I don't..(anything)" than it does to just say, "No thanks," or "I'd like a drink of water, actually, if you have it." The definitive statement in the negative invites discussion and, if one doesn't wish to get personal, it is easier to phrase things in a disarming way.

[QueenCat]

I understand why people avoid saying "I don't drink." I explained my reasons why I don't go to any lengths to avoid saying that upthread. But if someone offered you a cigarette, would you not just say "No thanks, I don't smoke,"? Would you stop at No thanks, so people don't feel judged?

 

I'm one of the ones that said that sometimes when people say "I don't drink", it feels judgemental. Key word is sometimes. It is the way the person says it that can sound judgemental towards the one offering. Certainly not the norm but it happens occasionally. So hard to explain in writing but it is usually the tone of voice that makes it sound like the person declining the drink is suggesting they are more moral than the person offering. They aren't but sometimes they do act like they are.......... again, not the norm but it has happened to me several times. Mostly when I lived in a more conservative, Bible Belt area of the country.

Edited May 22, 2017 by QueenCat

[kitten18]

Yeah, but people don't really offer cigarettes anymore, the way they offer alcohol. Smoking is not endorsed and smoking in other people's homes is not encouraged. I haven't seen a person smoke in someone else's home since, I don't know...1987? Smoking affects others around you in a way that having a beer or glass of wine doesn't.

 

I don't think it's horribly judgemental yo say, "I don't drink," but I'm saying, semantically, it creates more tension to say, "I don't..(anything)" than it does to just say, "No thanks," or "I'd like a drink of water, actually, if you have it." The definitive statement in the negative invites discussion and, if one doesn't wish to get personal, it is easier to phrase things in a disarming way.

I agree.

 

I see this with food all the time.

If I go to a party and someone offers me a cupcake, I don't say, "no, I don't eat sugar".

I say, "that looks delicious, maybe I'll have one in a little bit".

Then it's over and we don't need to have a discussion about my diet.

[Tangerine]

If you think people don't offer cigarettes anymore, you've not been to an AA meeting.  Totally acceptable there to say "I don't drink," as an aside.  :lol:

[Caraway]

Smoking affects others around you in a way that having a beer or glass of wine doesn't.

.

The drinking culture in my neighborhood is VERY strong and it certainly does affect others. Obnoxious behavior, inability/unwillingness to chaperone their own children, etc. That's before we even talk about drunk driving, or other costs to society like medical costs or productivity.

 

Just because our society has *chosen to view* alcohol differently than cigarettes or heroin, doesn't mean that alcohol isn't harmful to others.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest]

If you think people don't offer cigarettes anymore, you've not been to an AA meeting. Totally acceptable there to say "I don't drink," as an aside. :lol:

Well, no. Never been to an AA meeting. I doubt AA meetings are the location where the OP is experiencing conflict, however.

[Tangerine]

Well, no. Never been to an AA meeting. I doubt AA meetings are the location where the OP is experiencing conflict, however.

I'm responding to your assertion that people don't offer cigarettes anymore.  Offering cigarettes or alcohol, I'm sure, depends highly on the culture and situation one finds oneself in.  It's a blanket statement that doesn't apply to everyone's situation.  I doubt the OP is finding conflict in Caraway's neighborhood either, but the conversation does meander.

[Guest]

The drinking culture in my neighborhood is VERY strong and it certainly does affect others. Obnoxious behavior, inability/unwillingness to chaperone their own children, etc. That's before we even talk about drunk driving, or other costs to society like medical costs or productivity.

 

Just because our society has *chosen to view* alcohol differently than cigarettes or heroin, doesn't mean that alcohol isn't harmful to others.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's why I said "having *A*beer or glass of wine..." I didn't say alcohol consumption never affects others.

[Tangerine]

I do find this interesting, because I feel like I'm coming at it with the same purpose, but from another direction.  There are some of you who do not respond with "I don't drink" for purposes of not making the person offering feel judged or uncomfortable.  I'm coming at it from the perspective of wanting those around who are dealing with addiction and the choice to either socially isolate themselves from these events, or face temptation to feel comfortable.  

 

I think most everyone isn't trying to make anyone feel bad about their choices.  I am not a person who feels the judgement of others for my choices.  I either don't notice or don't care.  I wonder if that makes me oblivious to the fact that a statement like "I don't drink" would be perceived as judgemental.  I wonder if it's the empaths among us who respond in the more conversational way.

[SKL]

That's why I said "having *A*beer or glass of wine..." I didn't say alcohol consumption never affects others.

 

Yeah, it really depends on the individual situation.  There are some people I would not have alcohol around, because I know what would come next.  And some people have really bad reactions to alcohol, but they drink anyway.  And for some, it's never just one beer, even if that's the original intent.

 

I see how my brother in law hurts his children among others.  And himself.  Of course it always starts innocently.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that there's no one right answer.

 

This may sound strange, but between my bil and his drinking vs. my brothers and their smoking, I'll take the smoking any day.

[Guest]

I'm responding to your assertion that people don't offer cigarettes anymore. Offering cigarettes or alcohol, I'm sure, depends highly on the culture and situation one finds oneself in. It's a blanket statement that doesn't apply to everyone's situation. I doubt the OP is finding conflict in Caraway's neighborhood either, but the conversation does meander.

Funny you mention it, because I did almost qualify my statement by saying, "...not in any circle of people I encounter..." But I figured it was a safe assumption that not a lot of people who would be on this board are offered cigarettes on a regular basis. But what do I know. Maybe there's a mass underbelly of the population that offers cigarettes routinely.

 

Personally, I don't even *see* people smoking hardly ever anymore. The few smokers I know keep it on the down-low; they smoke out back while people are eating birthday cake or around the corner of buildings. When my son was around 11, he saw someone smoking outside the post office and said, "Hey, look! He's got one of those smoking things!" So, no, not part of my culture. Guess I should have qualified it after all.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, no. Never been to an AA meeting. I doubt AA meetings are the location where the OP is experiencing conflict, however.

Using your quote as a jumping off point:

 

The whole discussion of people pushing alcohol on someone is also not what the OP is experiencing since she said that only applied to her ILs and instead she is talking about social conversation. I think that you would agree (from other things you have said) that listing all the reasons why you are against something in what was light conversation, changes the tone and comes across as judgmental. If you are uncomfortable with a general subject it is much better to change the subject or move to another group of people who might be discussing something more to your own liking.

 

Most adults have thought through whether they want to drink or not and don't really want a discourse on why someone doesn't like it. Sharing the impact that alcoholism might have had on you is best left for an intimate discussion with very close friends.

[Tangerine]

I didn't consider those people any kind of underbelly.  I considered them addicts trying their best to get through and doing what they considered to be the polite or friendly thing.  They aren't a group of people that were previously in my circle either, but that's where I found myself.

[Tangerine]

Using your quote as a jumping off point:

 

The whole discussion of people pushing alcohol on someone is also not what the OP is experiencing since she said that only applied to her ILs and instead she is talking about social conversation. I think that you would agree (from other things you have said) that listing all the reasons why you are against something in what was light conversation, changes the tone and comes across as judgmental. If you are uncomfortable with a general subject it is much better to change the subject or move to another group of people who might be discussing something more to your own liking.

 

Most adults have thought through whether they want to drink or not and don't really want a discourse on why someone doesn't like it. Sharing the impact that alcoholism might have had on you is best left for an intimate discussion with very close friends.

 

Are you speaking to me, or the OP, or Quill?

[heartlikealion]

No one has offered me a cigarette since I was in high school but if they did I could see myself saying tossing an extra word in my reply and watching my tone as I said, "oh, I don't smoke" or "no thank you, I don't smoke" or whatever. If I included the "I don't smoke" part it is partially to hint that I don't really like to be around smoke (which they may or may not pick up on).

Edited May 22, 2017 by heartlikealion

[heartlikealion]

nm got my threads mixed up LOL

Edited May 22, 2017 by heartlikealion

[Jean in Newcastle]

Are you speaking to me, or the OP, or Quill?

I'm speaking to everyone participating in the thread.

[Jean in Newcastle]

nm got my threads mixed up LOL

I wondered about that!

[Tangerine]

 I think that you would agree (from other things you have said

 

 

I'm speaking to everyone participating in the thread.

 

Sorry.  I thought you were asking a specific person.  Didn't want to ignore!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sorry.  I thought you were asking a specific person.  Didn't want to ignore!

 

That was an editing issue.  I made that aside so that Quill wouldn't think that I was picking on her but then realized that it was probably better to put the line at the top saying that I was using her post as a jumping off point.  But then I didn't go delete the aside I had made to her. . .   Sorry for the confusion. 

[Guest]

I didn't consider those people any kind of underbelly. I considered them addicts trying their best to get through and doing what they considered to be the polite or friendly thing. They aren't a group of people that were previously in my circle either, but that's where I found myself.

I feel like you're picking apart my response, though, Tangerine. Does it really need qualifying to say there's not a lot of cigarette offering in today's society?

[Tangerine]

And I feel like you made a definitive statement, which I attempted to light heartedly point out was not the case in certain circles, which seemed really off putting to you, resulting in you putting your foot down on where the conversation was and was not allowed to go. So I guess we just aren't communicating well.

[kroe1]

I have been asked why I do not drink many times. I just state that I want my children to know that one can get through life without altering one's mind, even socially. They already have role models who drink. Plus, with all the fast food and garbage that I eat, I am sure my liver is thankful for my abstention. Why is an explanation a big deal, anyway?

[Guest]

And I feel like you made a definitive statement, which I attempted to light heartedly point out was not the case in certain circles, which seemed really off putting to you, resulting in you putting your foot down on where the conversation was and was not allowed to go. So I guess we just aren't communicating well.

No, clearly not. So...draw. No harm meant. Carry on.

[marbel]

I have been asked why I do not drink many times. I just state that I want my children to know that one can get through life without altering one's mind, even socially. They already have role models who drink. Plus, with all the fast food and garbage that I eat, I am sure my liver is thankful for my abstention. Why is an explanation a big deal, anyway?

 

Do you seriously say that?   I'd consider that response as rude as the question 'why don't you drink?"  I guess a rude question deserves a rude response...  

 

I'm seriously surprised by the number of people here who are routinely asked why they don't drink.  I have only the vaguest of memories of being asked, and it probably hasn't been in the last 20 years. Oh, once about 3 years ago I was on medication that was incompatible with alcohol consumption, and I had to decline champagne at a wedding.  One of the people I was with - who is a friend with whom I have shared many a wine date - asked why I didn't partake.  That wasn't rudeness on her part - she was surprised and naturally wondered what had changed, if I was OK, etc. 

[QueenCat]

Well, it's kind of a mood killer for dh to have to tell the story about his best friend getting run over by a drunk driver right in front of him on Halloween night when he was 10. His best friend died right in front of him and the driver was so drunk he couldn't manage to get himself out of the van. I don't really feel like giving my family medical history at a dinner party or wherever these people are that can't just hear no thanks and accept it. Cirrhosis is not pleasant dinner conversation. 

 

I'm so sorry your husband had to go through such a loss. No one should be pressured to drink or do anything that they don't really want to do. I really can't imagine a host not accepting a "no thank you" except maybe when it's culturally expected to offer a few times before being accepted, as one poster mentioned earlier in this thread. There's nothing wrong with offering someone a drink but there is also nothing wrong with saying "no thank you". You shouldn't have to give an explanation.

[Excelsior! Academy]

What the heck?  Why would someone continue to push you?  I would state my case kindly.  Then firmly.  Then rudely.  They are being rude and disrespectful. Under no uncertain terms tell them no.  The end.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Excelsior! Academy

[fraidycat]

I rarely ever drink. So rarely that it's a big deal to my family and friends if I do accept a drink once every few years. My body/digestive system?/metabolism? just doesn't handle alcohol well. Instead of saying "I don't drink alcohol" if offered one, I say "I would prefer a water (or tea, pop, etc.) if it's no problem." Host(ess) has never declined my request, nor has anyone ever questioned my statement of preference. I don't get annoyed if their good manners has them offering a drink at the next round either, though. I do not feel pressured in any way, I just restate my preference or more often, they'll offer both options and let me choose.

 

Same with coffee. Again, my body can't handle it. If offered a coffee, I don't say "I don't drink coffee" I just ask for what I would like instead. "I'll just have a glass of water, if you don't mind, please."

 

I've never encountered anyone so enmeshed in their own drink preference that they won't willingly and politely meet my request. I do have cousins who'll try to talk me in to having a drink with them at a family function to "have fun with them", but I just remind them I'm so much more fun when I'm awake and not in pain and they let it go. I don't expect them to remember all of my dietary restrictions, so do not get annoyed or take it personally when they forget.