What do you guys think of this...

[nmoira]

that his maternal grandparents apparently named his mother Stanley!

Why would someone do that to a girl?

Just seems mean.

Right up there with naming a boy Sue.

:lol:

It's like in Blackadder II -- Nursie's name was Bernard.

[Jenny in Florida]

So according to this, IF TRUE, Obama should not have been registered as a natural born citizen because she did not meet all these qualifications spelled out in the law (she hadn't lived in the USA for the previous 10 years with five of those being after the age of 14 -- she was just 18 when Obama was born).

 

As I understand it, this is not correct. The law being quoted above does not apply to anyone born in the U.S. Obama was, so his mother's age and number of years in residence don't matter.

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

[Renee in NC]

As I understand it, this is not correct. The law being quoted above does not apply to anyone born in the U.S. Obama was, so his mother's age and number of years in residence don't matter.

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

 

Right, but this attorney is claiming that Obama was *not* born in the U.S. but rather in Kenya, and that the birth certificate from Hawaii he produced is a fake.

[nmoira]

My understanding is, that the case is also calling into question whether or not he ever had a duel citizenship. If he was ever a citizen of Indonesia, or any other country, he isn't eligible to be the President of the US.

 

Where does it say this in the Constitution?

 

Bumping this, out of curiosity.

[Chika]

As I understand it, this is not correct. The law being quoted above does not apply to anyone born in the U.S. Obama was, so his mother's age and number of years in residence don't matter.

 

Again, the allegation in the suit that goes along with what I quoted, is that he was born in Kenya, not Hawaii. The form that Obama has produced, according to the suit, is one that can be granted to someone born outside the USA and relatives of Obama have allegedly said he was born in Kenya, not Hawaii.

[Parabola]

Are we *really* still talking about this??? Really???

 

Are we really still thinking that Obama is not actually a citizen?

 

Because if we are, we better be prepared to present our findings to the republican party because apparently they are unaware of this.

 

Well at least they must because if they were, Obama would already be out of the race.

 

Give it up people.

[MyThreeSons]

You can be a senator or representative if you're a naturalized citizen, but not president.

 

 

That someone is passed over as Speaker of the House or President pro tempore of the Senate because of citizenship status since they are in the line of succession to become President of the U.S.?

[Renee in NC]

That someone is passed over as Speaker of the House or President pro tempore of the Senate because of citizenship status since they are in the line of succession to become President of the U.S.?

 

I think we all think too much!:lol:

 

I can't wait to tell my dh that it isn't just me!

 

Have we ever had a Senator that was not a natural-born citizen?

[nmoira]

Right, but this attorney is claiming that Obama was *not* born in the U.S. but rather in Kenya, and that the birth certificate from Hawaii he produced is a fake.

 

I've also read that supposedly he renounced he became an Indonesian citizen and his US citizenship was automatically revoked. This was never the law. It used to be that naturally born dual citizens had to choose at the age of 18 whether to keep their US citizenship and renounce the other, but this was not the case prior to 18 years of age. It was also true that becoming a citizen of another country AFTER the age of 18 would result in revocation of US citizenship. Here is the relevant law at the time.

[BabyBre]

If this is an actual lawsuit, and it appears to be, the media must be WAY more powerful than I gave them credit for!

 

Can you imagine if this was happening to the Republican candidate? We'd have live coverage of this.

[nmoira]

If this is an actual lawsuit, and it appears to be, the media must be WAY more powerful than I gave them credit for!

 

Can you imagine if this was happening to the Republican candidate? We'd have live coverage of this.

Anyone can file a lawsuit.

[Renee in NC]

Anyone can file a lawsuit.

 

Maybe someone should file one against McCain to see if the theory is right. Seriously - is it possible that the mainstream media is so biased that they wouldn't report on this if it had serious merit?

[lynn]

Hawaii is a state. He was born there. He would therefore be a US citizen even if both his parents were citizens of another country. Being born in the US makes you a citizen, regardless of where your parents claim citizenship. Why do you think so many come across the borders to give birth here? Of course, his mother WAS a natural born US citizen, so that's not even the case here.

 

Anyway, he did show a copy of his birth certificate earlier in the year.

 

And really, he's been a senator for awhile now. Don't you think SOMEBODY would have realized he was some sort of foreign national by now if that was the case?

 

I'm sure this thread will degenerate and be locked, but I figured I'd put these facts out first.

Michelle T

 

Link please.

[nmoira]

Maybe someone should file one against McCain to see if the theory is right. Seriously - is it possible that the mainstream media is so biased that they wouldn't report on this if it had serious merit?

Are you suggesting that someone should file a frivolous lawsuit against McCain just to show it can be done? ;)

 

Like this one?

 

Or this one?

 

Or this one?

 

Or this one?

 

Not McCain, but what about this lawsuit?

[nmoira]

Link please.

Specifically, what do you want verified?

[Chika]

I think we need a TEA break. Everyone take a deep breath, back away from the keyboard, go drink some tea and then let's come back refreshed and ready to move on.

 

Si? ;)

[BabyBre]

Are you suggesting that someone should file a frivolous lawsuit against McCain just to show it can be done? ;)

 

Like this one?

 

Or this one?

 

Or this one?

 

Or this one?

 

Not McCain, but what about this lawsuit?

 

 

LOL! Thanks, nmoira! Those are great!

 

OK, so the same suit has been filed against McCain but it was quickly dismissed. So, Berg v Obama must not be that strong of a case either then, right?

[Renee in NC]

LOL! Thanks, nmoira! Those are great!

 

OK, so the same suit has been filed against McCain but it was quickly dismissed. So, Berg v Obama must not be that strong of a case either then, right?

 

McCain's was dismissed because the man bringing it had not suffered any harm, according to the judge.

 

Obama's has not been dismissed yet, but discovery hasn't even started.

 

Has any other attorney joined Mr. Berg in this suit? I have seen lots of blogs that support him, but what about other politicians, attorneys, etc.?

[nmoira]

McCain's was dismissed because the man bringing it had not suffered any harm, according to the judge.

The point was that anyone can bring a lawsuit. How long a frivolous lawsuit takes to get dismissed it not necessarily a reflection on the merits of the case... look at SCO vs IBM, which went on for years (though this is admittedly a rather complex example).

 

Has any other attorney joined Mr. Berg in this suit? I have seen lots of blogs that support him, but what about other politicians, attorneys, etc.?

Not that I'm aware of. Neither has the RNC jumped on board.

[nmoira]

 

OK, so the same suit has been filed against McCain but it was quickly dismissed. So, Berg v Obama must not be that strong of a case either then, right?

On the face of it, it doesn't appear so to me.

[nmoira]

Again, the allegation in the suit that goes along with what I quoted, is that he was born in Kenya, not Hawaii. The form that Obama has produced, according to the suit, is one that can be granted to someone born outside the USA and relatives of Obama have allegedly said he was born in Kenya, not Hawaii.

Obama has produced a birth certificate. Whatever form is mentioned in the suit, I am reasonably sure that Hawaii didn't and doesn't issue birth certificates for people born abroad.

[Jean too]

As I said, it was my understanding of Mr. Berg's case against Obama, that Obama had held a duel citizenship. I think I was wrong, he claims that Obama didn't have duel citizenship, but had had to renounce his citizenship when in Indonesia.

I'm not interested in fighting for the man's case one way or the other. I have no idea if any of his charges against Obama are true or not. If there is nothing to his case, release the necessary papers already, and move on.

 

More on this topic :

 

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/divided-loyalties-pt-1/

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/divided-loyalties-pt-2/

Edited October 24, 2008 by Jean too

[elizabeth]

This is a distraction ,and not a very good one, from the issues. It is a non issue as he is clearly a USCitizen as per the Constitution's definition.

[nmoira]

As I said, it was my understanding of Mr. Berg's case against Obama, that Obama had held a duel citizenship. I think I was wrong, he claims that Obama didn't have duel citizenship, but had had to renounce his citizenship when in Indonesia.

I debunked this one in a post above. Even if he were at some an Indonesian citizen (and I'd suggest that just as detractors would not accept a school registration form filled out by a parent at proof of US citizenship, so it shouldn't be considered proof of Indonesian citizenship), his US citizenship would not have been revoked until the age of 18. He returned to Hawaii at the age of 10. There is no evidence that he was ever an Indonesian citizen, or that he had any allegiance to Indonesia.

[5kidsforME]

It's basically saying that since Mr. Obama didn't show his birth cetificate to prove that he is a naturalized citizen in the amount of time given he is ineligible to be a presidential candidate. Don't want any slams. I'm just asking what you make of this.

 

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/27/

 

Honestly, I do not beleive it is true. I could be wrong, ;).

 

My thinking if it is this: 1) The media NOT necessarily would be all over it as I believe the media tends to be liberal. 2) If it was true don't you think the McCain campaign would be all over that??

[Jean too]

OK, so there's nothing to the case. Now, if only Mr. Obama will come forth with the documents we can put this all behind us.

[GailV]

That someone is passed over as Speaker of the House or President pro tempore of the Senate because of citizenship status since they are in the line of succession to become President of the U.S.?

 

I think they'd just be passed over in the line of succession. Henry Kissinger was in the line way back when he was Secretary of State, which was during that interesting time of Nixon and Agnew and all of the related discussion of who all was in line to be president. Kissinger couldn't have become president if it had gotten down to him, but that didn't bar him from being Sec. of State.

 

Or maybe I've misunderstood your question.

[Renee in NC]

OK, so there's nothing to the case. Now, if only Mr. Obama will come forth with the documents we can put this all behind us.

 

He did. And it wasn't good enough. His medical records? Why? His Harvard Law papers were released. They even released his wife's college thesis (WHY anyone cares, I don't know!)

 

How do we know that McCain's birth certificate is real? How do we know that he is really John McCain? How can we know that anything he says is true.

 

Of course, that is silly sounding. But, take out McCain, enter Obama, and suddenly it has merit.

[Chika]

Obama has produced a birth certificate. Whatever form is mentioned in the suit, I am reasonably sure that Hawaii didn't and doesn't issue birth certificates for people born abroad.

 

Gosh, sorry, I guess I'm not good at making myself clear. Certainly a certificate can be granted if a US citizen gives birth to a child abroad. Happens all the time when US citizens give birth in countries other than the USA. The children, in these cases, are US citizens.

 

Obama would be too. Now in THIS case, the Plaintiff, who believes Obama was born abroad, is stating that he does not believe that Obama's mother -- according to the law at the time -- was eligible for registering him as a natural born citizen. He doesn't believe she ought to have since the law at that time stated that you had to have lived in the USA for the previous 10 years, with five of those being after the age of 14. She was just 18 when she gave birth to Obama, so she doesn't qualify according to this particular law.

 

ETA: I'm not saying I agree with the suit, or what the man is alleging. I'm just trying to make clear what he's getting at, according to what I have read (the document filed in Pennsylvania).

Edited October 24, 2008 by Chika

[milovany]

H2) If it was true don't you think the McCain campaign would be all over that??

 

Jumping in here, yes, it seems like this would be "big news" coming out of the McCain camp if there were any possibility of its truth.

[beansprouts]

Obama would be too. Now in THIS case, the Plaintiff, who believes Obama was born abroad, is stating that he does not believe that Obama's mother -- according to the law at the time -- was eligible for registering him as a natural born citizen. He doesn't believe she ought to have since the law at that time stated that you had to have lived in the USA for the previous 10 years, with five of those being after the age of 14. She was just 18 when she gave birth to Obama, so she doesn't qualify according to this particular law.

 

ETA: I'm not saying I agree with the suit, or what the man is alleging. I'm just trying to make clear what he's getting at, according to what I have read (the document filed in Pennsylvania).

 

So does this argument mean that any child born to a teen mother could face the same difficulty? I guess I don't get it.

 

BTW I am not an Obama supporter, but I have much better reasons not to like him ;)

[Jean too]

He did. And it wasn't good enough. His medical records? Why? His Harvard Law papers were released. They even released his wife's college thesis (WHY anyone cares, I don't know!)

 

How do we know that McCain's birth certificate is real? How do we know that he is really John McCain? How can we know that anything he says is true.

 

Of course, that is silly sounding. But, take out McCain, enter Obama, and suddenly it has merit.

 

Mr. Berg is asking for the following:

 

 

1.a certified copy of Obama’s “vault†(original long version) Birth Certificate;

2.a certified copy of Obama’s Certificate of Citizenship; and

3.a certified copy of the Oath of Allegiance taken by Obama taken at the age of majority.

 

 

 

Medical records are not required to run for president, proof of citizenship is.

[Soph the vet]

McCain's was dismissed because the man bringing it had not suffered any harm, according to the judge.

 

Obama's has not been dismissed yet, but discovery hasn't even started.

 

Has any other attorney joined Mr. Berg in this suit? I have seen lots of blogs that support him, but what about other politicians, attorneys, etc.?

Yes, there is an attorney in Washington state that wants the state sec. of state to verify Obama's eligibility. I don't have the link just google 2nd lawsuit against Obama birth certificate and I think you'll find it.

[Soph the vet]

Maybe someone should file one against McCain to see if the theory is right. Seriously - is it possible that the mainstream media is so biased that they wouldn't report on this if it had serious merit?

Is the sky blue most of the time?:D

[Chika]

So does this argument mean that any child born to a teen mother could face the same difficulty? I guess I don't get it.

 

Good question. You can see from the text I typed out in one of my first posts in this thread that the law was changed in the 70s, so maybe that was taken into account in the change.

[nmoira]

 

Good question. You can see from the text I typed out in one of my first posts in this thread that the law was changed in the 70s, so maybe that was taken into account in the change.

This is a misunderstanding of the law of the time. A person born in the US to American parents was (at that time) and is (now) unequivocally a US citizen. Here's the wikipedia entry.

[Jenny in Atl]

Even Neil Boortz says this is a dead issue. :tongue_smilie:

[beansprouts]

Even Neil Boortz says this is a dead issue. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

I think so too. This would have come out a long time ago.

[nmoira]

So does this argument mean that any child born to a teen mother could face the same difficulty? I guess I don't get it.

No, it doesn't. She's wrong.

[Jennifer in NH]

OK, so there's nothing to the case. Now, if only Mr. Obama will come forth with the documents we can put this all behind us.

I never really thought that I would be defending Mr. Obama...His politics are just about the opposite of mine. But, with that said, why on earth should he have to release anything else? If one had to release everything just because of someone's claim...well, that would be all the candidates would be doing. Just because someone with an agenda says his birth certificate is a fake does not make it so.

 

and on another note, earlier someone asked what happens if someone in the line of succession is not a naturalized citizen...well, that is very simple...the presidency falls to the next qualified person in line. Only the pres. and VP have to be 35 and actual 'natural' citizens...If Nancy Pelosi was born in Canada, she could still be Speaker..she can just never become President..it would go to the next person...clear as mud?;)

[admin]

This topic has been discussed ad nauseam and it never ends well.