Russia Votes to Decriminalize Domestic Violence

[zaichiki]

Yes, and I think it's important to point out that their ingrained acceptance of abuse of women isn't specifically Russian. It is specifically patriarchal.

So... can you point out some other patriarchal cultures that have similar laws/similar way of responding at the legal or governmental level? How common would you say this response/lack of response is, worldwide? Is the American perspective in the minority, do you think?

[redsquirrel]

So... can you point out some other patriarchal cultures that have similar laws/similar way of responding at the legal or governmental level? How common would you say this response/lack of response is, worldwide? Is the American perspective in the minority, do you think?

 

What do you think the American perspective is? 

 

I can't speak to specific laws on a world wide scale, but if we are discussing attitudes and behaviour, from what you and others have described, I don't think Russian widespread acceptance of violence against women stands out in any particular way. It sounds fairly typical of a country embracing traditional patriarchal values

 

This new legislation is definetely scary...and I do wonder if a larger crackdown on feminists or on women's autonomy in general is coming.  Taking away women's ability to go to the courts for protection will only serve to strengthen patriarchal attitudes and force women into a more subservient position.

[zoobie]

So... can you point out some other patriarchal cultures that have similar laws/similar way of responding at the legal or governmental level? How common would you say this response/lack of response is, worldwide? Is the American perspective in the minority, do you think?

The majority of Americans may not live in deeply patriarchal cultures, but they're not unknown here. The Duggars got theirs on national TV and made it seem like they were just the nicest family... Now this extremist mindset has a foothold in our government. Spousal rape has only been illegal in all states for about 20 years, and there are some pitiful excuses for laws in many states.

[redsquirrel]

The majority of Americans may not live in deeply patriarchal cultures, but they're not unknown here. The Duggars got theirs on national TV and made it seem like they were just the nicest family... Now this extremist mindset has a foothold in our government. Spousal rape has only been illegal in all states for about 20 years, and there are some pitiful excuses for laws in many states.

 

And let's not forget that it has really only been a generation that domestic violence in America has even been talked about.

 

Many towns have hotline and agencies to help victims of domestic violence, and I can promise you, they are very busy. So someone doesn't have to go full on Duggar to be patriarchal enough to think he is entitled to control his partner with violence or other kinds of abuse.

[Rosie_0801]

Deep patriarchal culture isn't even required. I spent much of last year knowing I'd almost certainly lose custody of dd for being a hysterical nervous wreck, a condition that can basically be explained by having lower testosterone levels than a man. I cry when I'm afraid and frustrated, and I was both.

 

And yeah, the best chance you have of getting through on a DV hotline is to be calling around 4am.

[Frances]

So... can you point out some other patriarchal cultures that have similar laws/similar way of responding at the legal or governmental level? How common would you say this response/lack of response is, worldwide? Is the American perspective in the minority, do you think?

Several predominantly Muslim countries come quickly to mind including Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.

 

Also India.

[Frances]

The majority of Americans may not live in deeply patriarchal cultures, but they're not unknown here. The Duggars got theirs on national TV and made it seem like they were just the nicest family... Now this extremist mindset has a foothold in our government. Spousal rape has only been illegal in all states for about 20 years, and there are some pitiful excuses for laws in many states.

And add to that the Willis family. I saw the show a few times and was impressed with how talented and accomplished all of their children were and how normal they seemed, except for the fact that no one ever talked about college as an option and the dad seemed a bit controlling. But then these amazingly talented young women started talking about how their husbands would be the decision makers in their families and how their dad had to approve of all of their clothing and often picked out their outfits. And then he was arrested for child rape.

[Happy2BaMom]

This is sickening to me. It seems that everything women in our past worked for is disintegrating. If we don't stick together we are sunk. Which is shocking to me that in the modern age we seem to be going backward at such an alarming rate.

 

The only reason it is happening so fast is because so many women (and men) have largely quit paying attention to "women's issues" for the last decade or two. 

 

The stances/policies of those in power now - whether federal or state - have long been clear in terms of prior votes, speeches, and platforms. And they continue to be re-elected.

 

It's what happens when people fall into complacency. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Happy2BaMom

[ebunny]

Several predominantly Muslim countries come quickly to mind including Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.

 

Also India.

 

Links? Or is this a general impression from the news about India in western media?

 

 

 

ETA: I'll be the first to admit India has a problem with patriarchy( and related issues); but no more or less than any other diverse secular developing country. To club it with Saudi Arabia/Afghanistan and Russia is misleading.

 

ETA 2: Domestic Violence Act 2005

 

Quoting:

 

 

Not only men, but women can also be prosecuted under the Protection of Women against Domestic Violence (DV) Act. The Supreme Court has struck down the words “adult male†from the pertinent provision in the DV Act to lay down that a woman can also file a complaint against another woman, accusing her of domestic violence.

Under Section 2(q) of the 2005 Act, a complaint can be made only against an “adult male personâ€, thereby insulating women from being accused of offences mentioned under the law.

But a bench of Justices Kurian Joseph and Rohinton F Nariman ruled Thursday that this provision frustrated the objective of the legislation since “perpetrators and abettors of domestic violence†can be women too.

 

Given that Patriarchy typically presents an environment where women are pitted against one another; I would say this is a very progressive development which protects DILs living in multi-generational families from getting physically, emotionally harassed by her MIL or SIL.

 

 

ETA 3: Laws against DV since 1983

 

 

ETA 4: The problem wrt DV lies not just in implementing the legislature, but also acknowledging that DV occurs at all! Often, wives shield their husbands from being taken into custody by the police when neighbours or relatives report the DV. 

I'm probably being quite simplistic, but this has much to do with the idea of 'Pati (husband) vrata(vow)'; taken to its extreme form. And as usual, very conveniently men forget that they need to be 'Patni vrata'(wife vow) too. :glare:. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Ebunny

[ebunny]

nm. Deleted because post was O/T

Edited January 28, 2017 by Ebunny

[Ausmumof3]

Papua New Guinea is bad, though I think it's less to do with legislation and more with lack of follow through and resources

[Liberty]

Are FACTS allowed?

 

FACT: The current administration intends to slash funding for domestic violence programs that were implemented as part of the 2003 Violence Against Women Act.

 

FACT: The VAWA has reduced domestic violence by 64%.

 

FACT: One-third of all female homicide victims are killed by an intimate partner.

 

FACT: Many programs, all across the country, that provide emergency shelter and legal assistance to victims of domestic violence will be forced to close.

 

FACT: This will make it much harder for women to leave abusive partners, and increase their risk of serious injury or death.

 

FACT: The Russian and US governments are passing laws and signing orders that strip victims of domestic abuse of the few protection they have, which will make it much more difficult for them to escape abusive relationships, leading to an increase in injuries and even death.

 

I'll refrain from adding any personal opinion regarding the motivations for these acts, so this list of FACTS won't be construed as "political."

FACT:  The current administration isn't picking this one issue for which to slash funding but is slashing the overall budget of the department from which that funding comes.  How that department decides to prioritize with the money it has left is up to it.  

 

FACT:  A lot of very good programs in all departments will be affected.  

 

FACT:  My niece worked for DHS for 2 years and talked to me daily about the MASSIVE amounts of money wasted by our federal government.  She said just for the one county she worked in they were budgeted $1M to educate on ONE particular health issue and were instructed to spend it entirely on PAPER (no media, no website development, no charges for printing onto the paper, no community visits, etc... just on PAPER) and they had to spend every last dime by the end of year.  

 

FACT:  I thought these boards were not supposed to get political????

Edited January 28, 2017 by Liberty

[redsquirrel]

I'd really like to think that being against domestic violence and sexual assault isn't political.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

FACT: The current administration isn't picking this one issue for which to slash funding but is slashing the overall budget of the department from which that funding comes. How that department decides to prioritize with the money it has left is up to it.

 

FACT: A lot of very good programs in all departments will be affected.

 

FACT: My niece worked for DHS for 2 years and talked to me daily about the MASSIVE amounts of money wasted by our federal government. She said just for the one county she worked in they were budgeted $1M to educate on ONE particular health issue and were instructed to spend it entirely on PAPER (no media, no website development, no charges for printing onto the paper, no community visits, etc... just on PAPER) and they had to spend every last dime by the end of year.

 

FACT: I thought these boards were not supposed to get political????

Fact: the Violence Against Women Act enforcement and some other civil rights enforcement programs have been SPECIFICALLY outlined as being targeted for elimination, not just cuts.

 

One of your "facts" sounds more like an allegation based on hearsay.

[goldberry]

I'd really like to think that being against domestic violence and sexual assault isn't political.

 

This cannot be repeated enough.  

 

Eliminating a department is not the same as slashing a budget.  Budgets may be slashed, but the PRIORITIES we choose reflect out values as a society. 

 

Repeating:  BEING AGAINST DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT IS NOT POLITICAL.

[Lanny]

That is something I would not be surprised with, if it was in a country with a Muslim Majority, but I believe Muslims in Russia are a Minority.  How any man (or woman) could think that is a good idea is beyond me. Most men have Mothers. Many men have Wives and Daughters. How could anyone think domestic violence against them is not a criminal matter? HORRIBLE...

[LMA]

Hi, All. I'm not here that much (too busy; so forgive me if I don't reply to your responses to my response) and I happen to see this thread. This is a subject dear to my heart because I have seen so much of it around me. I have seen so many people become outraged by lenient laws yet they turn away from victims of domestic violence who ask for help. All I have to say is regardless of the laws and demographics in any state or country, please, please try to help someone in such a situation. The strictest laws are useless unless someone calls the police, helps the victim find a safe place, calls a "safe" relative for that person, loans/gives money to help the person get out, whatever fits the situation, etc. I've had to call the parents (which was very awkward for me) of someone in that situation because no one else would dare to do so.