Anyone Celebrate *real* Halloween?

[asta]

As in Samhain, the Celtic festival that was co-opted by Christianity into All Saints day and is now a Hallmark Holiday with (poorly representative) smiling pumpkins and comic book costumes?

 

As part of our schooling (and life!) experience, we've made a point to teach kiddo the origins of modern "holidays". Samhain is his favorite. And no, he isn't out there sacrificing any goats on our WeberQ; he is more interested in celebrating the transition from one season to another.

 

 

asta

[Karen in CO]

:thumbup1:

I do. We still let the kids trick-or-treat, but they never start until after our feast.

[Alaska Mom]

We just dress in stupid costumes and then get sick on candy.

[tibbyl]

Part of my response was posted on another thread already.

 

We celebrate it thoroughly in the tacky Hallmark manner and happily since it is one of our favorite holidays.

 

For handing out, we purchase only coveted candies, none of the cheap throwaway stuff. Usually we decorate both indoors and outdoors and enjoy walking or driving around area to see other houses' decor. Mums, pumpkins and other gourds, haystack, decorative corns, garland, colored lights, laughing witch wreath, brooms, fake scarecrows, tombstones, zombies, if it's tacky and made of plastic or filled with lead, we have it.

 

One of my kids who had learned about tarot cards and spellcasting displayed his skills for us one year. Making up stories about spirits and ghosts was another activity we did.

 

Of course, costuming is the climax of the holiday. When the kiddos were younger, we'd visit as many as six stores, including theater costume shop, for their costumes. Usually they would wear the costumes at least one or two days in addition to the official day.

 

Other things we do are visit local corn maze or haunted house and watch scary movies as appropriate for children's ages. On a few occasions, we have sacrificed marshmallows over a fire but no crops or critters. Oh, there's almost always a party/get-together with Halloween themed music and treats and hor d'oeuvres.

 

For us, it is nothing more than a secular holiday with an autumn harvest theme. The kids learned about the true origin of Halloween and the fact that early christianity placed their celebrations to coincide with those of culture they were trying to reach. We are neither christian nor earth-based faith; we are agnostics and atheists.

 

I understand that many choose not to participate due to religious beliefs or other personal reasons. I do not mind if they wish to explain to others why they forego Halloween. It is within their prerogative to sit out Halloween and not be pestered or ridiculed for doing so. All is well.

 

What rubs me wrong way is when certain of those people foist their religious beliefs upon others by attempting to persuade others not to celebrate because of their perceived spiritual danger. Typically this is in the form of a supposedly concern-based innocent warning to all other parents on the board. Usually the poster will cite erroneous information about origin from a scare tract. This has happened a few times over the years on our local board.

 

Oh, one more thing. It is definitely not cool to invite someone else's kid to your church's "Halloween party" as a facade for attending your church's Hell House. Yep, it happened.

[asta]

I understand that many choose not to participate due to religious beliefs or other personal reasons. I do not mind if they wish to explain to others why they forego Halloween. It is within their prerogative to sit out Halloween and not be pestered or ridiculed for doing so. All is well.

 

What rubs me wrong way is when certain of those people foist their religious beliefs upon others by attempting to persuade others not to celebrate because of their perceived spiritual danger. Typically this is in the form of a supposedly concern-based innocent warning to all other parents on the board. Usually the poster will cite erroneous information about origin from a scare tract. This has happened a few times over the years on our local board.

 

Oh, one more thing. It is definitely not cool to invite someone else's kid to your church's "Halloween party" as a facade for attending your church's Hell House. Yep, it happened.

 

That happened a LOT in the last town where I lived.

 

 

asta

[Alessandra]

asta

Thanks for the reminder! We are just beginning to add traditional holidays to our calendar -- sort of inspired by Waldorf. But I haven't done anything with Hallowe'en yet, other than the usual stuff (although we are more harvesty than ghoulish). You inspired me to check in some of my books by Hawthorn Press (All Year Round; Festivals, Family and Food). I've bookmarked your website and will check it out.

 

I'd love to hear what you do.

[Guest Lorna]

Hallowe'en was one of my favourite celebrations as a child growing up in Scotland. Every year we went out 'Guising' (as in 'disguise'). We would carry a scooped out swede with a little candle in it tied with string. Our costumes were rarely the scary kind. They were usually from nursery rhymes or famous or aspirational grown-ups. These were disguises against the witches who flew in the skies on Halloe'en night, and might realise we were children. It was enormously atmpsopheric because we rarely ever ventured out at night usually.

Before Hallowe'en was spent memorising songs, poems, jokes or magic tricks to perform and making our own costumes (only sometimes with help from parents). On the big night we would visit our neighbours, often elderly neighbours who would invite us into their homes to show them our little party pieces. They were always overjoyed to see us and gave us little treats as a reward. It was a great way to get to know everyone in the neighbourhood.

Finally we would come home and count our bounty. It was usually well over twenty apples, lots of monkey nuts in their shells, sometimes oranges, and occasionally a few sweeties (candy).

We would 'duck' for apples. Apples were floated in a basin of water and we had to try and catch an apple with our teeth - thereby soaking and ruining our make-shift costumes! Another messy one was to dangle treacle scones covered with honey from strings and catch them with our teeth.

It was a very neighbourly occasion - especially at a time when people retreated indoors with the longer winter evenings drawing in.

It wasn't until I was about seventeen and in a car with an American visiting Baptist minister that I discovered that some people considered Hallowe'en an 'evil' celebration. Rural Scotland, when I was a child, was still very traditional and strongly religious and we always considered Hallowe'en as a time to laugh in the face of evil and for children to have a night of triumphing over the monsters of their imaginations or otherwise. All Saints Day was then a day when the 'battle' was won and all was glorious again.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Lorna

[asta]

asta

Thanks for the reminder! We are just beginning to add traditional holidays to our calendar -- sort of inspired by Waldorf. But I haven't done anything with Hallowe'en yet, other than the usual stuff (although we are more harvesty than ghoulish). You inspired me to check in some of my books by Hawthorn Press (All Year Round; Festivals, Family and Food). I've bookmarked your website and will check it out.

 

I'd love to hear what you do.

 

Well, we just moved into a flat with NO yard, so it won't be happening this year, but what we have previously done:

 

Go "adventuring" throughout October in the fields and woods of our community to pick up any interesting looking fallen plants, tree limbs, etc.

 

Check out the sale racks at the local stores for interesting medieval bits, eg: gargoyles, bats, lanterns, shepherd's crooks, etc. (we have quite a collection now)

 

Make sure we have one of those fakey "insta-logs" in case all of the firewood is wet.

 

So... NORMALLY, we would just kind of drag all of this stuff out and stare at it for awhile. (Ok, trip over it for a few days.) At some point, it just kind of becomes obvious what we're supposed to do with it all. One year, a previous storm had knocked down lots of trees in our area, so there were lots of dead branches strewn about. We picked a bunch of them up, "planted" them all over the yard, and hung moss from them. At their bases (and elsewhere, on one side of the yard) we "planted" tall marsh grasses in floral foam, secured it to the ground with sticks, and covered it in moss. The whole thing looked like a swamp/bog.

 

On the other side of the yard, we made an old graveyard, complete with stories for the names of the people (had to be able to answer questions about it, after all!). The whole thing was lit with lanterns hanging from shepherd's crooks. This was all for the kiddos in the neighborhood; no one else really decorated, and they really liked our house.

 

On Hallowe'en, we would light a fire in a raised fire pit at sundown and keep it burning all night. One particularly bad year in the neighborhood, we smudged the house and salted the thresholds, but generally, we just kept candles burning.

 

We paid for it, though: one Hallowe'en, someone decided I was a "bad Witch" who "needed salvation" (banishment, disappearing - take your pick). I awoke the next morning to find the bush next to my front door burned down by a sacramental candle, and my favorite flowering bush poisoned with defoliant and "cleansed" with frankincense, myrrh and... wait for it... brimstone.

 

Talk about a WTF moment.

 

I mean, someone is questioning MY ideology and they are combining those items?

 

Sigh.

 

Like I said, this year we're in a flat with no chance to decorate or have a fire. We'll figure something out.

 

 

asta

[OnTheBrink]

*nosing in* As a conservative Christian, I completely agree about tricking people into seeing "Hell Houses." If you want someone to see something at your church, be up front and honest about it, at least. Deception, even for the sake of salvation, is not a Godly trait. The desired end doesn't justify the means.

 

And, I'm always interested in what others do for holidays, how they perceive them, what they mean to them. Doesn't mean I always agree, or want to participate, but I do find it interesting.

 

*nosing out*

[Mama Lynx]

As in Samhain, the Celtic festival that was co-opted by Christianity into All Saints day and is now a Hallmark Holiday with (poorly representative) smiling pumpkins and comic book costumes?

 

As part of our schooling (and life!) experience, we've made a point to teach kiddo the origins of modern "holidays". Samhain is his favorite. And no, he isn't out there sacrificing any goats on our WeberQ; he is more interested in celebrating the transition from one season to another.

 

 

asta

 

We often save our Samhain celebration for 11/1. On halloween, we dressup, ToT, the works. For Samhain, we have an ancestors' dinner.

[Jennifer3141]

We do! We do!

 

Although we start the afternoon out trick-or-treating. When the kids are sick of that, we will be coming home and having a bonfire and celebrating the end of the harvest and the beginning of our winter's introspection.

 

And uh, yeah on the the Hell Party. I fell for that once in high school. I would not subject my kids to people like that.

 

Jen

[Alessandra]

asta

Thanks for sharing! I couldn't do what you do, because *I* would be scared at the gravestone bit. But I like the insta-log -- I presume that is a battery operated log?

 

lorna

My mother grew up (a long time ago) in the north of Scotland. I think she may have mentioned turnips or swedes, but I am not sure. Her family were very strict Protestants (one step away from Wee Frees) and they did have much fun. All Saints Day would have been totally out of the question!!! (But I love it now.) They did do Guy Fawkes Day though.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

We have taught dd about the origins of the Holiday. That's about as far as we go in "celebrating" it only because we are so gosh darn busy on Halloween!!!

 

There is no school on Halloween. We wake up in the morning and have a nice sugary breakfast (french toast or pumpkin shaped pancakes usually). We watch Halloween specials while we do some sort of Halloween craft.

 

The fun begins in the early evening when we head to the town celebration to defend our title. Lol- dd has won the costume contest for the last 5 years and placed in top 3 when she didn't win. We all get really into it- it's rather comical.

 

After that, we go trick-or-treating, then head to MIL's. From there we enjoy the rest of the town celebration.

[Guest Lorna]

asta

They did do Guy Fawkes Day though.

 

Ah yes! In Scotland they do do fireworks and bonfires but I didn't see any burning of the 'Guy' or 'Penny for the Guy' until I lived in England. I always wonder if this was to do with a pro or anti Guy Fawkes tradition...

[laylamcb]

Wow. I've never even heard of a Hell House...but I can imagine. :001_huh:

 

We don't celebrate Samhain but rather Restoration Day. I usually choose a great reformer/martyr to read a bit about. We're Presbyterian--PCA--by the way.

 

Then we do the traditional neighborhood Halloween stuff, with ToT and costumes. We don't decorate the house for the holiday because--well, to be honest, it's because I'm lame that way. :D

[mo2]

What is a "hell house?"

[nmoira]

What is a "hell house?"

 

I had to look it up. I would be beyond livid if someone surreptitiously took myself or my children to one of these.

[Saille]

one Hallowe'en, someone decided I was a "bad Witch" who "needed salvation" (banishment, disappearing - take your pick). I awoke the next morning to find the bush next to my front door burned down by a sacramental candle, and my favorite flowering bush poisoned with defoliant and "cleansed" with frankincense, myrrh and... wait for it... brimstone.

 

Oh, for goodness sake. I was just reading on the other thread about a librarian who took a family's choice to not celebrate Halloween in stride...but I had a distinct vision of the too-commercialized-to-cope reaction they could have gotten stuck with: "What do you MEAN, you don't celebrate Halloween? But Halloween is fun!" (insert look that indicates the children are being deprived here).

 

It would be nice if people on both ends of the spectrum could celebrate (or not) without interference.

 

We celebrate Samhain here. It's one of my favorites. We have a ritual honoring our ancestors (this year we are adding my Grandmother, who passed this spring) and a harvest dinner. We've been ramping up with lots of cleaning, culling and organizing. I'm going to teach the kids purification rituals this year, as well. At least, that's the plan.

[KarenNC]

My husband usually takes Halloween off and we try to do more of our religious celebrations during the day while my daughter is still young enough to enjoy going trick or treating but not really old enough to stay up late enough to participate easily in a later ritual. Since we normally go to a friend's house for trick or treating with some other families, that also influences it (they are a fair distance from here). We're neither Wiccan nor Celtic Neopagans, so it's perhaps a bit different. We have integrated the Wheel of the Year approach into our observances to help keep us aware of the cycles of nature.

 

The process usually starts with the Day of Remembrance at our UU church, a time to remember those who have died in the past year. This will most frequently fall on the Sunday before Halloween, though sometimes it has been on the one after. Folks are invited to bring in photos or mementos of those who have died (whenever they died) for the altar/display table (depending on one's approach, being UU after all ;)).

 

At home, we are fortunate to live in an area where my family has lived for over 250 years, so there's lots of talk about our connections to the past and stories of our ancestors. We have a couple picture "trees" (a tree-ish frame with locket sized picture frames on it) with ancestor photos. These form part of our ancestor altar year round and at Samhain we usually light a candle and make an offering. This year, as my daughter is in Junior Girl Scouts, I may ask her to work on some of the badge activities that have to do with learning about her ancestors, particularly the women, in the week leading up to Samhain. We'll eat fall foods, maybe foods that our ancestors enjoyed.

Edited October 20, 2008 by KarenNC

[Saille]

We don't decorate the house for the holiday because--well, to be honest, it's because I'm lame that way. :D

 

I have that problem, too.

[KarenNC]

I had to look it up. I would be beyond livid if someone surreptitiously took myself or my children to one of these.

 

It can get entertaining between these and the folks who decide that it's a good idea to hand out candy attached to proselytizing pamphlets or "comic books" in the kids' Halloween bags even though the folks handing them out don't believe in celebrating Halloween. http://www.chick.com/default.asp

[Tabrett]

[quote name=asta;604320We paid for it' date=' though: one Hallowe'en, someone decided I was a "bad Witch" who "needed salvation" (banishment, disappearing - take your pick). I awoke the next morning to find the bush next to my front door burned down by a sacramental candle, and my favorite flowering bush poisoned with defoliant and "cleansed" with frankincense, myrrh and... wait for it... brimstone.

 

Talk about a WTF moment.

 

I mean, someone is questioning MY ideology and they are combining those items?

 

Sigh.

 

asta

As a Christian, I would NEVER do something like that! It was vandalism and dangerous!!!! I'm sorry some idiot would behave that way!!! The most decorated and scary yard in my neighborhood belongs to a lady who attends the same Christian church that I attend:D. Please don't think all Christians act this way.

[OnTheBrink]

As a Christian, I would NEVER do something like that! It was vandalism and dangerous!!!! I'm sorry some idiot would behave that way!!! The most decorated and scary yard in my neighborhood belongs to a lady who attends the same Christian church that I attend:D. Please don't think all Christians act this way.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Jennifer3141]

I have that problem, too.

 

I do too! And I have some cute holiday stuff for the season. I just can't get into it this year for some reason. the idea of cleaning more STUFF makes me want to hurl.

 

Jen

[Karen in CO]

I try to get all of my fall cleaning done before Samhain. The garage gets cleaned and the summer toys stored in the basement so the cars can fit in again. The winter coats get pulled out and the summer clothes packed away. Flip-flops are traded for winter boots. It is the opposite of spring cleaning.

 

During this, the kids are excited to put up the boxes of decoration that they rediscover tucked away in the basement and garage. It gets them away from cleaning. We have a nice little cemetery and an assortment of zombies and gargoyles and ghosts plastic jack-o-lanterns, black cats and rats. We add a little every year from the after Halloween sales. So the best way for me to decorate is to give it a an alternative to real work.

[Mekanamom]

Mostly we just celebrate the secular holiday. We carve pumpkins. We break out the Tim Burton movies, lol. (DH and I watch Sleepy Hollow every year!) Our house is just far enough out of town so that we never get any trick or treaters. So we always go visit friends and trick or treat in their neighborhood with lots of kids... very fun!

 

The kids all dress up and we have festive food, etc.

 

I have been to a more traditional Samhain celebration as well. I thought it was interesting that some things I just naturally do (eating pomegranates, preparing for a new year) were incorporated into the celebration. It was neat, but not something I feel the need to attend every year.

 

All in all... we have fun with most holidays in a secular way, but we also give a respectful nod to each of the main Wheel of the Year celebrations.

[Audrey]

We often save our Samhain celebration for 11/1. On halloween, we dressup, ToT, the works. For Samhain, we have an ancestors' dinner.

 

 

This is along the lines of what we do. Samhain starts at sundown on the 31st, but continues the day of the 1st. So, we take ds ToTing on the 31st, and we generally gather with another pagan family or two for an early ritual supper on the 1st, then have an indoor fireside song and story fest.

 

We'd probably do the fireside thing outside except that, without fail, it always seems to snow or be bitterly cold on Samhain. It's usually our first winter harbinger here.

 

Dh really gets into decorating for the holiday. We used to get next to no ToTers, but now we get lots just showing up to see the spectacle he creates every year.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Audrey

[sagira]

OMG! I had to look up Hell House too! That's awful! :ack2::leaving:

[tibbyl]

I had to look it up. I would be beyond livid if someone surreptitiously took myself or my children to one of these.

 

I was. It ended a friendship.

[HRAAB]

What is a "hell house?"

 

I've never heard of 'hell house', but it seemed every year when we emptied our bags, there would be these Bible tracts showing how some kid went to h*ll, complete with flames and devils poking them with spears. Scared my little girls. Well, the next year I watched as my girls got their candy, and I saw a man put one of those tracts in their bags. So I took it back to the door and told him we didn't appreciate it. He wouldn't take it back so I dropped in front of him and left. Can't the kids just have fun without that?

 

Janet

[Guest Lorna]

I've never heard of 'hell house', but it seemed every year when we emptied our bags, there would be these Bible tracts showing how some kid went to h*ll, complete with flames and devils poking them with spears. Scared my little girls. Well, the next year I watched as my girls got their candy, and I saw a man put one of those tracts in their bags. So I took it back to the door and told him we didn't appreciate it. He wouldn't take it back so I dropped in front of him and left. Can't the kids just have fun without that?

 

Janet

 

That is just so sad. Your poor little girls! When I think what a wonderful inncent occasion Hallowe'en was in my Scottish childhood and how it was an opportunity to get to know everyone in the neighbourhood, I just can't believe things can come to this. I always thought of the US as being a place of religious tolerance. Is that no longer true?

[Peek a Boo]

That is just so sad. Your poor little girls! When I think what a wonderful inncent occasion Hallowe'en was in my Scottish childhood and how it was an opportunity to get to know everyone in the neighbourhood, I just can't believe things can come to this. I always thought of the US as being a place of religious tolerance. Is that no longer true?

 

that depends on how you define 'tolerance':

 

1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance , fortitude , stamina

2 a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something : toleration

 

i don't think returning a tract and leaving it on the doorstep is 'tolerant.'

 

i don't think baiting someone to a Hell house is 'tolerant.'

 

i can think of a few other more tolerant ways to handle receiving a piece of paper or wanting to tell others about Christ.

 

there's plenty of times I don't see much tolerance from either side.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

i don't think returning a tract and leaving it on the doorstep is 'tolerant.'

 

And I don't think handing a little kid a picture of a child getting poked with pitchforks and talking about going to hell is tolerant either.

 

That's not Christianity- that's insanity.

[HRAAB]

that depends on how you define 'tolerance':

 

1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance , fortitude , stamina

2 a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something : toleration

 

i don't think returning a tract and leaving it on the doorstep is 'tolerant.'

 

i don't think baiting someone to a Hell house is 'tolerant.'

 

i can think of a few other more tolerant ways to handle receiving a piece of paper or wanting to tell others about Christ.

 

there's plenty of times I don't see much tolerance from either side.

 

This tract was ugly. It had blood and dead bodies. Fire and brimstone and devils torturing the poor lost soul. My girls were about 6 and 4. I found it highly inappropriate. The man should have asked me or my dh first if we would mind if he gave us a tract; we were standing right behind our girls. But he didn't ask. I pulled it out of the bag and took it back to him explaining I found it inappropriate and that I didn't appreciate him giving that my little girls. He wouldn't take it back, and I told him I wasn't accepting it. So I left it on his property.

 

I'm surprised that you find returning something that I found inappropriate and offensive an act of intolerance. I don't.

 

Janet

[HRAAB]

And one more thought while I'm on this subject. He did not have to participate in Halloween or ToT. He had his light on and the tracts sitting by the door. He used a holiday that many families innocently enjoy to spread his particular brand of religion and not in a very pleasant way. If he believes it is sinful to celebrate Halloween, he could have shut off his outdoor light and no-one would be ringing his bell.

 

Janet

[Jennifer3141]

I just don't get the mindset that would give kids scary stuff about ****ation for Halloween. I mean, if you don't believe in it, why can't you just turn your lights off like all the other fuddy-duds out there?? :D

 

Jen

Edited October 20, 2008 by Jennifer3141

[Peek a Boo]

This tract was ugly. It had blood and dead bodies. Fire and brimstone and devils torturing the poor lost soul. My girls were about 6 and 4. I found it highly inappropriate. The man should have asked me or my dh first if we would mind if he gave us a tract; we were standing right behind our girls. But he didn't ask. I pulled it out of the bag and took it back to him explaining I found it inappropriate and that I didn't appreciate him giving that my little girls. He wouldn't take it back, and I told him I wasn't accepting it. So I left it on his property.

 

I'm surprised that you find returning something that I found inappropriate and offensive an act of intolerance. I don't.

 

Janet

 

 

I didn't say that finding it inappropriate was intolerant -- tolerance is in how we RESPOND to different beliefs. The whole point of TOLERANT is that what's inappropriate for you may very well be APpropriate for another. That's kinda the point behind differing BELIEFS. There actually ARE Christians who DO believe the stuff on that tract and are very concerned. Calling it 'insanity' isn't tolerant either.

 

It would have been just as easy to toss it in the trash.

 

Back to what real tolerance is.

 

I for one am not really interested in tolerating different beliefs, so i am not going to claim to BE 'tolerant.'

 

But if one really is interested in tolerance, then there's a lot of allegedly inappropriate things to tolerate.

[Peek a Boo]

I just dont' get the mindset that would give kids scary stuff for Halloween. I mean, if you don't believe in it, why can't you just turn your lights off like all the other fuddy-duds out there?? :D

 

Jen

 

 

because they happen to believe that spending eternity like what's depicted in the tract is way scarier than Halloween. Besides --as was mentioned in another thread-- plenty of christians DO celebrate Halloween and see this as simply another thing to hand out.

 

again, *I* don't do this --not my style ;)

BUT i do see why others feel the need to.

We just toss the tracts in the trash.

 

eta: OH! and i missed it, lol!

I just dont' get the mindset that would give kids scary stuff for Halloween

really?? Halloween?!? a holiday that revolves around, well, Scary Stuff?? :D

Edited October 20, 2008 by Peek a Boo

[Peek a Boo]

And one more thought while I'm on this subject. He did not have to participate in Halloween or ToT. He had his light on and the tracts sitting by the door. He used a holiday that many families innocently enjoy to spread his particular brand of religion and not in a very pleasant way. If he believes it is sinful to celebrate Halloween, he could have shut off his outdoor light and no-one would be ringing his bell.

 

Janet

 

But you're missing the point:

 

apparently he DID want to participate in halloween, just not how YOU wanted him to participate.

 

 

So who's gonna be the Holiday Police?

 

Does everyone hafta celebrate holidays the same way you do?

[Laura K (NC)]

nt

[laylamcb]

I've been thinking about this since y'all posted, and...I definitely see a difference between a "Hell House" (and, specifically, inviting non-Christian friends and neighbors to a "Halloween event" that's really a Hell House) and handing out a tract at your front door. I understand all the arguments for and against, and I personally don't hand out tracts, but still--I do just see those two things as very different. And one (the tract) is, in my mind, much more reasonable than the other. (That's putting it mildly.)

 

Just my $.02! :001_smile:

[Peek a Boo]

If there's a Peek a Boo fan club, I'd join.

 

 

{{{ i don't think there's a fanclub, but i'm sure i'm on a few ignore lists ;) }}}

[laylamcb]

apparently he DID want to participate in halloween, just not how YOU wanted him to participate.

 

 

 

 

Why on earth would ANYONE not want to celebrate everything just as I celebrate everything?! :001_huh: You've lost me, Peek.

 

:D

[Mekanamom]

It would have been just as easy to toss it in the trash.

 

 

sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something : toleration

 

 

Is saying "no thank you" (i.e. leaving the tract there) really intolerant, though? She wasn't telling him he couldn't or shouldn't DO that, she just said she didn't appreciate his tactics and didn't want one for her family and left the tract there.

 

It seems like intolerance would be more like telling him he must stop, or grabbing all the tracts and tossing them so he couldn't continue to express himself. She indulged his overall beliefs and practices while excusing herself from participating in them by not taking one.

 

I don't find that intolerant.

 

On the other hand, he didn't want to give her the opportunity to refuse. That does sound fairly intolerant.

[laylamcb]

Is saying "no thank you" (i.e. leaving the tract there) really intolerant, though? She wasn't telling him he couldn't or shouldn't DO that, she just said she didn't appreciate his tactics and didn't want one for her family and left the tract there.

 

It seems like intolerance would be more like telling him he must stop, or grabbing all the tracts and tossing them so he couldn't continue to express himself. She indulged his overall beliefs and practices while excusing herself from participating in them by not taking one.

 

I don't find that intolerant.

 

On the other hand, he didn't want to give her the opportunity to refuse. That does sound fairly intolerant.

 

I tend to agree. Now, if she had set fire to them or TP'd his house later that night... different story. ;)

[Peek a Boo]

Is saying "no thank you" (i.e. leaving the tract there) really intolerant, though? She wasn't telling him he couldn't or shouldn't DO that, she just said she didn't appreciate his tactics and didn't want one for her family and left the tract there.

 

It seems like intolerance would be more like telling him he must stop, or grabbing all the tracts and tossing them so he couldn't continue to express himself. She indulged his overall beliefs and practices while excusing herself from participating in them by not taking one.

 

I don't find that intolerant.

 

On the other hand, he didn't want to give her the opportunity to refuse. That does sound fairly intolerant.

 

Again, that depends on whether you are trying to BE tolerant or not.

 

So I took it back to the door and told him we didn't appreciate it. He wouldn't take it back so I dropped in front of him and left.

 

the kids went up to a stranger's house and asked for stuff.

They were given something which was promptly littered on the giver's property. That doesn't even sound courteous, much less tolerant.

 

So to ask the question that was asked earlier:

where is religious tolerance in America?

I'm still wondering that myself.

[Saille]

But you're missing the point:

 

apparently he DID want to participate in halloween, just not how YOU wanted him to participate.

 

 

So who's gonna be the Holiday Police?

 

Does everyone hafta celebrate holidays the same way you do?

 

LOL...I have to question the assertion that a person who chooses to tell small children they risk going to hell for celebrating Halloween is just celebrating it himself, in his own *special* way.

 

Wanna try that again?

[Saille]

Again, that depends on whether you are trying to BE tolerant or not.

 

So I took it back to the door and told him we didn't appreciate it. He wouldn't take it back so I dropped in front of him and left.

 

the kids went up to a stranger's house and asked for stuff.

They were given something which was promptly littered on the giver's property. That doesn't even sound courteous, much less tolerant.

 

So to ask the question that was asked earlier:

where is religious tolerance in America?

I'm still wondering that myself.

 

Also, if he wouldn't take it, and she didn't want it, setting it down was the best option. Putting it in the mailbox *would* have been a crime.

[Mekanamom]

Again, that depends on whether you are trying to BE tolerant or not.

 

So I took it back to the door and told him we didn't appreciate it. He wouldn't take it back so I dropped in front of him and left.

 

the kids went up to a stranger's house and asked for stuff.

They were given something which was promptly littered on the giver's property. That doesn't even sound courteous, much less tolerant.

 

So to ask the question that was asked earlier:

where is religious tolerance in America?

I'm still wondering that myself.

 

Well... to split hairs, it seems that she tried to give it back first, and then dropped it there in response to his own intolerance.

 

I just don't think a person has to participate in someone else's religious agenda to be tolerant of religion in America.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

the kids went up to a stranger's house and asked for stuff.

 

Not "stuff"- CANDY - or a FUN trinket of some kind. I don't take my daughter trick or treating so she can knock on stranger's doors and ask for STUFF.

 

I am having flashbacks to a scene in an Adam Sandler movie where he takes a little boy trick or treating. The man who answers the door doesn't have candy, so Adam Sandler makes him give the kid CD's, his watch, etc.

 

where is religious tolerance in America?

 

It's with the people who turn off their lights because they don't want to participate. It's with the kids who don't make fun of the other kids who aren't allowed to dress up. It's with the members of churches, synagogues, and mosques who share in fellowship with each other but don't try to cram their personal version of their personal religion down other people's throats.