Do any of you NOT participate in Halloween?

[Heather in MD]

Same here - we can't even go to the local grocery store without my dd having to hide her face when we go past the "spooky" aisle. Ds pretends to be brave - but when we went in the Halloween store to look for costumes he stuck pretty close to me. I can't get over how much the costumes cost!! Who can afford $50 to dress up as a Star Wars clone trooper??!!

 

We do 'celebrate' Halloween, but only by going over to the in-laws and trick-or-treating at a few houses where they live. It's usually over pretty quickly, since my kids don't like the creepy costumes. But they do enjoy dressing up and getting candy.

 

As far as decorating, we have a light up pumpkin that we put out on the front porch some years - other years we don't do anything at all. One of our neighbors goes all out - decorating the whole yard. Of course, dd has to close her eyes whenever we drive by their house!

 

IMHO, Halloween is what you make it out to be. For my kids, it is a chance to get dressed up in a fun costume (usually someone from Star Wars - although this year Indiana Jones is a favorite too!), and eat candy that they normally don't get to have. We don't let them go hog-wild with the candy either - they get to pick out a reasonable amount of what they like to keep - the rest of it goes with dh to work the next day.

 

Heather in MD

 

That stuff freaks my kids out, too. We do a very benign Halloween, no violent costumes or undead at the door, and these shock-n-freak displays in the stores certainly shock and freak us. :glare:

[hsmamainva]

Only one year did someone hand out a religious tract. The kids found it in their pumpkins and they were just disappointed that it wasn't edible! ;)

 

My ONE horrid experience with trick-or-treating happened when my oldest son was 4. He has autism, as some of you may know, and he was non-verbal that Halloween .. well, he could say a few words, such as "Mama" and "No" and "Please" ... sort of a toddler-sized vocabulary. And we went up to this one house with the tombstones in the yard, etc.

 

My son was hanging back, shaking his head. He didn't want to go up there. And I told him that it was fine. He didn't have to go. We could go to the next house.

 

So the adults who live in the house were standing there and one of them said, "Awww..come on. It's okay. We won't scare you."

 

So my son bit his upper lip and headed up to them....and they had another adult, hiding inside a coffin..and he jumped up and my son screamed and screamed, hysterically.

 

And these *%&(&(** were LAUGHING at him. Thought it was the funniest thing they'd ever seen in their lives.

 

I had to take my son straight home after that, and he refused to go trick-or-treating for 3 straight years after that. It wasn't until we moved to another neighborhood that he was willing to go out again...but, even then, he was afraid.

 

He's now too old to go (at 14), but he can still tell you ever minute of that experience (he's very verbal now) and it happened 10 years ago.

 

Now THAT irks me more than someone handing out a tract. (I get tracts handed to me in public from time to time and I just throw them out later)

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

As for people handing out tracts on Halloween, I was talking to a friend of mine about this, and they have rules in their neighborhood association against it. Apparently a couple years ago, someone in their neighborhood was doing it, and one of the dads was nice enough to stand out in front of that house warning people. So, they made a rule that only candy and small prizes can be handed out on Halloween, no literature of any kind. Of course, if you want to hand out candies that say "Jesus Loves You" on them, it would be allowed, but no tracts.

[Tami]

We don't celebrate it and instead emphasize the stories of the saints in October, as well as the harvest that God has provided us. This year, we are going to read portions of Our Island Saints.

[Blessedfamily]

As for people handing out tracts on Halloween, I was talking to a friend of mine about this, and they have rules in their neighborhood association against it. Apparently a couple years ago, someone in their neighborhood was doing it, and one of the dads was nice enough to stand out in front of that house warning people. So, they made a rule that only candy and small prizes can be handed out on Halloween, no literature of any kind. Of course, if you want to hand out candies that say "Jesus Loves You" on them, it would be allowed, but no tracts.

 

I'm not being argumentative but doesn't that sound like violating somone's rights? To tell them what they give to someone else on their own front porch? Now the man standing out front was within his rights so people could say "Thanks for the warning" or "We choose to go to this house anyway".

 

Now I wouldn't pass out tracts personally.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[OnTheBrink]

As for people handing out tracts on Halloween, I was talking to a friend of mine about this, and they have rules in their neighborhood association against it. Apparently a couple years ago, someone in their neighborhood was doing it, and one of the dads was nice enough to stand out in front of that house warning people. So, they made a rule that only candy and small prizes can be handed out on Halloween, no literature of any kind. Of course, if you want to hand out candies that say "Jesus Loves You" on them, it would be allowed, but no tracts.

 

Wow, talk about censorship.:001_huh:

[mommaduck]

I wouldn't raise a beef about it, but that really is the same kind of censorship many of those same people fight against.

[Blessedfamily]

Wow, talk about censorship.:001_huh:

 

That's what I was thinking. And right on your own porch? I wish my homeowners' association would try that with me :boxing_smiley:. They can't override the constitution.:001_smile:

Edited October 20, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[*********]

As for people handing out tracts on Halloween, I was talking to a friend of mine about this, and they have rules in their neighborhood association against it. Apparently a couple years ago, someone in their neighborhood was doing it, and one of the dads was nice enough to stand out in front of that house warning people. So, they made a rule that only candy and small prizes can be handed out on Halloween, no literature of any kind. Of course, if you want to hand out candies that say "Jesus Loves You" on them, it would be allowed, but no tracts.

 

I wonder if the same neighborhood association would have been willing to make a 'no ghost/witch/devil/etc. Halloween decorations' rule...

[Blessedfamily]

Uh-oh, here we go...

 

:001_smile:............

 

 

:lol: That's how I feel when I read the following words on this board- Halloween, Obama, McCain, Biden, Palin, ...

 

(not complaining, just laughing......a lot)

[*********]

:lol: That's how I feel when I read the following words on this board- Halloween, Obama, McCain, Biden, Palin, ...

 

(not complaining, just laughing......a lot)

 

:lol:

[Saille]

Uck. In my old teaching assistant's neighborhood, they weren't allowed to have a vegetable garden and could only paint their houses certain colors. I understand some folks prefer it that way, I'm just not one of them.

 

That said, I DO think that anyone handing out religious tracts is not celebrating Halloween, they are staging a protest. If someone handed something perverted to a child, they'd be violating the law. Someone handing out a tract is not. However, when an entire neighborhood is celebrating Halloween, you have a reasonable expectation that a good neighbor is not going to sit out on their lawn and entrap small children into being evangelized. The *reasonable* expectation is that the neighbor is handing out a treat, not a trick. I don't think it's really very different, or less of a violation, than the people who said they wouldn't scare the child and then jumped out at him, in the example upthread.

 

We do trick-or-treat, but I have mixed feelings about it. We celebrate Samhain, which is, at our house, largely about honoring our ancestors, purifying our thoughts and living space in a spring cleaning meets New Year's Day kind of way, and seeking guidance in the year to come. I find that the commercialization of Halloween is counter to our family's values, in much the same way that the commercialization of Christmas and Easter are distractions from our Solstice and Ostara celebrations.

 

I really, really dislike the way violence, sexuality, commercial characters and greed are glorified and marketed to children. That's my particular beef. That Seinfeld picture book about Halloween pretty much exemplifies what I hate.

 

Oh, here's a question I just thought of. Did the neighborhood association vote on the change, or does some kind of board just unilaterally decide? And did you sign some kind of contract agreeing to that process when you moved in?

Edited October 20, 2008 by Saille

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I wonder if the same neighborhood association would have been willing to make a 'no ghost/witch/devil/etc. Halloween decorations' rule...

 

No- That is totally laughable.

[*********]

No- That is totally laughable.

 

Wow. Ok, um, not to me. I think they're awful and tacky.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I'm not being argumentative but doesn't that sound like violating somone's rights? To tell them what they give to someone else on their own front porch? Now the man standing out front was within his rights so people could say "Thanks for the warning" or "We choose to go to this house anyway".

 

No, when you move into that neighborhood you are fully aware there is a neighborhood association with rules. If the association passes new rules, and you go through the proper channels but are still outvoted, you have the option of moving if you don't want to follow the rules.

 

There is also a Catholic neighborhood with it's own association and rules.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Wow. Ok, um, not to me. I think they're awful and tacky.

 

Well, most of the rest of the world thinks it's laughable. Ghosts, witches, etc. etc. are considered traditional Halloween decorations.

[Blessedfamily]

No, when you move into that neighborhood you are fully aware there is a neighborhood association with rules. If the association passes new rules, and you go through the proper channels but are still outvoted, you have the option of moving if you don't want to follow the rules.

 

There is also a Catholic neighborhood with it's own association and rules.

 

But the Associations rules can't trump the constitution. Mine just fought a very costly(through our dues) and public battle to find that out. And ours is extremely restrictive. You must get permission to hang a clear storm door, plant more than one planting, put even a simple boarder on the flower bed, no stepping stones on the ground...."

Edited October 20, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[OnTheBrink]

UGH, that's why I abhor HOAs. Too Stepford-like in their attempts to make everyone conform.

 

I guess if you know the rules beforehand and agree, that's one thing. But not all HOAs make themselves known. The one in my old neighborhood surely didn't! We found out about it when we got a bill for dues about a month after moving in!

[*********]

Well, most of the rest of the world thinks it's laughable. Ghosts, witches, etc. etc. are considered traditional Halloween decorations.

 

I no longer feel we are discussing our opinions on Halloween. There is no need to call anyone's ideas or opinions 'laughable', nor is there reason for any of us to think we speak for 'most of the rest of the world'.

 

Let's stay on topic, as well as civil. It really is ok if we don't agree.

 

:001_smile:

[Tami]

Being uncomfortable with the message does not entitle a person to infringe on another's religious freedoms. Religious freedom is foundational to an open society. Would you rather have the censorship and regulations on religion that exists in say, China? Should we censor both religious and philosophical thoughts that are deemed offensive by some? Should we all register with the Thought Police? Where does this end? Freedom is not freedom if it does not include the right to free expression of religious thought. In a free society, everyone is free to agree or disagree, but all schools of thought are free to enter their ideas into the marketplace of ideas, and that includes their neighborhood.

 

I find the comparison of religious thought to porn silly at best, and biggoted at worst. What fodder for hate: comparing a Christian to a sexual pervert. Is that the type of tolerance that you teach your children? It would be good to be treat those of religious persuasion with a little more respect than that.

 

Just my take, you are free to disagree. :D

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I no longer feel we are discussing our opinions on Halloween. There is no need to call anyone's ideas or opinions 'laughable', nor is there reason for any of us to think we speak for 'most of the rest of the world'.

 

Let's stay on topic, as well as civil. It really is ok if we don't agree.

 

:001_smile:

 

Well, it's a fact that the majority of Americans consider witches, ghosts, etc. traditional Halloween decorations. Therefore it would be laughable for people to expect they be taken away. Not that your beliefs are laughable, please don't mistake it for that.

[*********]

Well, it's a fact that the majority of Americans consider witches, ghosts, etc. traditional Halloween decorations. Therefore it would be laughable for people to expect they be taken away. Not that your beliefs are laughable, please don't mistake it for that.

 

All is well. :001_smile:

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

But the Associations rules can't trump the constitution. Mine just fought a very costly(through our dues) and public battle to find that out. And ours is extremely restrictive. You must get permission to hang a clear storm door, plant more than one planting, put even a simple boarder on the flower bed, no stepping stones on the ground...."

 

There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees your right to tacky up your house (lol I hate homeowners associations too FWIW). As for religious freedom- you have the right in this country to practice any religion you want. There is no rule preventing anyone in the neighborhood from having a prothelitizing party if they want. However, Halloween is Halloween. As I said it's one thing to hand out candy that says "Jesus Loves You" it is another thing to use Halloween as an opportunity to hand out propoganda. This rule also covers other kinds of propoganda- not just that which is religious in nature. For example, if I lived in that neighborhood I also could not hand out political literature. I could hand out candy with Obama wrappers, but not literature.

[Donna T.]

We, for religious reasons some of you will understand and others won't, do not go trick/treating. Nor do we celebrate???? Halloween.

 

What do you do?

 

No, we do not "celebrate" Halloween. According to our research, the real origins of Halloween lie in the ancient practice of commemorating Noah's Flood and the departing of souls that occurred during the Deluge. If you check out the dates given in Scripture for the flood, you will find that it lines up just right with our modern "celebration" of Halloween.

 

Here is one article for anyone who is interested in the roots of Halloween - particularly, the fact that it is an observance of the deaths that occurred as a result of the Flood: (something we should weep over rather than celebrate)

http://www.peopleschurchofmontreal.org/halloween.html

 

Halloween is mostly a non-issue to our children. They think it is disgusting.

 

Blessings! God Bless you for your discernment. Take heart, Church! The Day is coming when this whole wicked world is going to be one big Halloween "Celebration". Protect your babies and trust the Lord Jesus Christ to deliver you.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Donna T.

[dani3boys]

We do take advantage of the candy sales afterwards though!:)

[Blessedfamily]

There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees your right to tacky up your house (lol I hate homeowners associations too FWIW). As for religious freedom- you have the right in this country to practice any religion you want. There is no rule preventing anyone in the neighborhood from having a prothelitizing party if they want. However, Halloween is Halloween. As I said it's one thing to hand out candy that says "Jesus Loves You" it is another thing to use Halloween as an opportunity to hand out propoganda. This rule also covers other kinds of propoganda- not just that which is religious in nature. For example, if I lived in that neighborhood I also could not hand out political literature. I could hand out candy with Obama wrappers, but not literature.

 

In re-reading your post, especially the one about passing out political candy but not flyers, it seems to me that you're saying they are restricting the format, not the message. I can see that distinction, but I still think they would loose that fight in court. Our association has similar rules when you're going out passing things out to people, but not if they knock on your door and ask for it.

 

People are coming to your house asking for whatever you're passing out. The homeowners associations can't tell you you can't give it to them. (Though maybe a tract isn't what you want).

 

If my next door neighbor came to my house and asked to borrow tools can they restrict shovels but allow hammers. I'm not trying to be sarcastic but when someone comes to me personally and asks for something (as long as it isn't pot:001_smile: ) the homeowners association can't regulate that.

 

 

I would fight that in court. But I won't fight it out here so I'll agree to disagree.:001_smile:

[Paula in PA]

Being uncomfortable with the message does not entitle a person to infringe on another's religious freedoms. Religious freedom is foundational to an open society.

 

Exactly the point. Handing out a tract like the one stated to my child is, to me, an infringement of OUR religious beliefs. Religious freedom is for ALL religions, not just yours.

[Saille]

I find the comparison of religious thought to porn silly at best, and biggoted at worst. What fodder for hate: comparing a Christian to a sexual pervert. Is that the type of tolerance that you teach your children? It would be good to be treat those of religious persuasion with a little more respect than that.

 

Just my take, you are free to disagree. :D

 

Tami, are you talking to me, or VaKim? I'm not comparing proselytizing to porn, I'm making the distinction that giving porn to kids is illegal, and proselytizing is not.

 

Being uncomfortable with the message does not entitle a person to infringe on another's religious freedoms.

 

I agree with that in theory. In practice, religious arguments should take place between adults. Proselytizing to a child who expected candy, attempting to counter his or her parents' teachings, is a serious ethical violation.

[mommaduck]

religious arguments should take place between adults. Proselytizing to a child who expected candy, attempting to counter his or her parents' teachings, is a serious ethical violation.

 

I agree with this. The one year we "passed out" tracts, they were simply in a box and at adult level with a sign stating that we were not participating and if they wished to read our views on it then they were welcome to help themselves. We did not answer the door.

 

IMHO though, children should not be going door to door by themselves on that night, in particular, and parents should be examining their children's bags before the children get anything (this is what my parents did...looking for needle marks, opened candy, and even booklets promoting the opposite of Christianity).

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

In re-reading your post, especially the one about passing out political candy but not flyers, it seems to me that you're saying they are restricting the format, not the message. I can see that distinction, but I still think they would loose that fight in court. Our association has similar rules when you're going out passing things out to people, but not if they knock on your door and ask for it.

 

People are coming to your house asking for whatever you're passing out. The homeowners associations can't tell you you can't give it to them. (Though maybe a tract isn't what you want).

 

If my next door neighbor came to my house and asked to borrow tools can they restrict shovels but allow hammers. I'm not trying to be sarcastic but when someone comes to me personally and asks for something (as long as it isn't pot:001_smile: ) the homeowners association can't regulate that.

 

 

I would fight that in court. But I won't fight it out here so I'll agree to disagree.:001_smile:

 

Kids coming to trick-or-treat are expecting candy or small prizes- not religious literature. They are not knocking on anyone's door to collect propaganda.

[jojomojo]

Exactly the point. Handing out a tract like the one stated to my child is, to me, an infringement of OUR religious beliefs. Religious freedom is for ALL religions, not just yours.

 

If you don't want to risk an infringement on your beliefs, you should re-consider trick or treating. This is why a lot of Christians choose not to participate in trick or treating...they realize the potential of something infringing on their beliefs.

 

I don't hand out tracts, but I certainly feel I have the right to do so if someone comes to my door asking for me to hand them something. If someone was handing out something I didn't believe in, I wouldn't expect them to stop, I would stop asking them to hand me something ;)

[OnTheBrink]

Kids coming to trick-or-treat are expecting candy or small prizes- not religious literature. They are not knocking on anyone's door to collect propaganda.

 

I see what you're saying, but expectations are not ordinances. If someone comes to the door for a hand-out, they get what they get and have the choice to toss it or not.

 

I don't hand out tracts but if dd received a tract that didn't align with our beliefs, I'd just toss it and that's that. Just like I do with candy she doesn't like.

 

I don't agree with political literature being handed out; children don't vote so what's the point? If you want to take the opportunity to hand adults political literature, I don't really see a problem. I'd most likely toss that, too, but it wouldn't offend me.

[Saille]

I see what you're saying, but it can also be argued that if you think Christmas caroling, for example, is wrong, the solution is to simply not answer the door. To appear to participate, only to deliberately counter the intent, is disingenuous.

[Blessedfamily]

Kids coming to trick-or-treat are expecting candy or small prizes- not religious literature. They are not knocking on anyone's door to collect propaganda.

 

Oh I agree they aren't expecting that but the parent doesn't know what legal item the kid's going to get and yet they still let the kid knock. They may expect candy but some people do pass out tracts so they should know the kid my get one.

 

I wouldn't do it ever but the point of the discussion is that a homeowners' association can't force me not to. I use my own conscience.

[Cornerstone Classical]

My dh or I never celebrated it growing up. And we still don't think we missed out on anything.

 

I always think of these verses:

 

I Thess. 5:22

22Avoid every kind of evil.

 

 

Philippians 4:8

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

[OnTheBrink]

I see what you're saying, but it can also be argued that if you think Christmas caroling, for example, is wrong, the solution is to simply not answer the door. To appear to participate, only to deliberately counter the intent, is disingenuous.

 

 

So should carolers be angry that the door they're singing to isn't opened? It's expected that the recipients of the carols would open the door and at least acknowledge the gesture. If they don't, are they countering the intent of the carolers?

 

I'm really not as argumentative about this at it appears. :) I just don't think getting upset at receiving a tract is worth the energy. If nothing else, use it at a teachable moment for the children. People have different beliefs about Halloween; some take it as a chance to share their beliefs with others in a non-threatening way. You're (general you) free to reject those beliefs or not.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I wouldn't do it ever but the point of the discussion is that a homeowners' association can't force me not to.

 

That's true, you could move elsewhere.

 

Personally, *I* would use it as a teachable moment. My dh has a friend who does one of the "hell houses" and doesn't believe in dinosaurs. He provides lots of great discussions, as I'm sure we do for him. ;)

[mommaduck]

TOTALLY OT NOTE:

 

I'm just grateful that SWB permits us to discuss these things here. Our differences and commonalities ALL make each of us who we are and we can't learn from eachother (even in disagreement) unless we are permitted to discuss. These threads just reminded of another place where there were hissy fits over a similar issue. There is a complete difference here where people may discuss without such.

[sagira]

We love Halloween! Dh is a die-hard Halloween fan. None of the Catholics around my area have any problem celebrating Halloween. It's fun, you get to wear a costume, and get to have some mild scares. Dh says he likes it because it makes fun of scares. When you laugh, you're not scared. To him it's like: Evil, you can't win, God is with us so we can make fun of your attempts to scare us.

 

Anyway, personally, I think handing out a flyer when kids are trick or treating is being party poopers :D

 

That means trick! I'm kidding, we've never done that and will unlikely trick anybody in the future, unless they hand me a flyer... muhahahahahahaa...

 

Can you tell I'm in the spirit of Halloween? :lol:

Edited October 20, 2008 by sagira

[Blessedfamily]

That's true, you could move elsewhere.

 

Personally, *I* would use it as a teachable moment. My dh has a friend who does one of the "hell houses" and doesn't believe in dinosaurs. He provides lots of great discussions, as I'm sure we do for him. ;)

 

That's seems to be meant in a nasty way. I could also stay(in my neighborhood) and fight and win like my neighbor did. I meant they can't legally force me to. I really am done now.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[Tess in the Burbs]

we had food allergies early on and as we got to the point we could participate we decided it wasn't for us for many reasons: faith beliefs, not healthy/safe, personal experiences as older child/teen and where it could lead....

 

we don't turn on the light. we put a sign out for those that come to the door anyway saying no candy here. and we rent a movie or watch tv as a family with popcorn.

 

i liked the 'manna from heaven' idea given a few weeks ago by another poster. We may read that Bible story and let them have some candy to be nice. But sending them to knock on strangers doors for junk candy...just isnt' something we want to do as a family. and our kids respect that so far.

[Saille]

So should carolers be angry that the door they're singing to isn't opened? It's expected that the recipients of the carols would open the door and at least acknowledge the gesture. If they don't, are they countering the intent of the carolers?

 

No, you're right, it's not a great comparison. It would be silly to get mad at someone for opting out of participating. The tract thing is different to me, b/c it's not simply opting out (which would be acceptable), but deliberate subversion of a holiday others are celebrating, and subversion, as well, of other people's parenting. To me, that's not an issue of what's legal or what's not. It's a simple issue of ethics. I never understand it when people argue that, because something is not legally prohibited, they can make free to do it even if it is unkind, or even manipulative. It's one thing when it's just someone who gets a kick out of being mean, but I get really confused when people who make faith or morality a central aspect of their family life do it. I really, seriously do not get how those two behaviors intersect.

 

I'm really not as argumentative about this at it appears. :) I just don't think getting upset at receiving a tract is worth the energy. If nothing else, use it at a teachable moment for the children. People have different beliefs about Halloween; some take it as a chance to share their beliefs with others in a non-threatening way. You're (general you) free to reject those beliefs or not.

 

This is a hot button issue for me, I admit that. I think there's this very unpleasant aspect of being in the religious majority in any given region that causes people to feel entitled to do things that they would not want done to them. This discussion would not, I think, be about teachable moments if I was handing children literature that spread the good news about Paganism outside a church's Halloween-alternative event. When you add another aspect I frequently see among people who choose this kind of behavior, that of being gleeful b/c no one can legally stop them...it's just nasty. I find that very counter-intuitive when the ostensible intent of the behavior is to share something that's supposed to be improving to the soul of the recipient. Surely there's a better way to go about sharing one's faith?

 

A shut door, an explanatory sign, and a basket of available literature seems much more honest and above-board, btw.

 

Oh, and mommaduck, right on. I don't learn much from discussing these things with people who already agree with me.

[tibbyl]

For those who agree that tracts are appropriate for Halloween, would you be hunky dory with someone giving your kid proselytizing tracts or engaging in verbal proselytizing in a setting other than Halloween?

Edited October 20, 2008 by tibbyl

[ereks mom]

We do not celebrate it any way shape or form and never have. We do love the after halloween chocolate sales though :D

 

 

:iagree:

[jojomojo]

For those who agree that tracts are appropriate for Halloween, would you be hunky dory with someone giving your kid proselytizing tracts or engaging in verbal proselytizing in a setting other than Halloween?

 

It wouldn't bother me if my kid went up and asked them for it. :D

 

But, then again, the only way I can really see that happening is with my consent (at least while they are young).

 

And someone might say "Well, they aren't asking for that, they are asking for candy". It's Trick or Treating...not Give Me Candy. When I was a kid, people gave out all kinds of treats - homemade popcorn balls (which we were never allowed to eat lol), gum, money (pennies, nickels, etc), tracts, and candy. Money isn't candy, but it sure is a treat! And call me corny, but I think learning about Jesus is too :D So if someone wants to share that "treat", they have every right to. And people have every right to choose not to Trick or Treat.

[mommaduck]

It was that way when I was a child also. We got candy, toys, money, colouring books, books, booklets, games, etc.

[jamnkats]

Like it or not, trick-or-treating is a Halloween tradition in the United States. If I take my child trick-or-treating and a house has its lights on/someone sitting outside handing things out to kids, I expect if I take my child up to the door, they will get candy or possibly a sticker or something. I do not expect my child will be handed a religious tract.

 

As a raving atheist i would simply throw the garbage where it belongs. I can't imagine getting all that upset because someone decided to try to preach to my kid when my kid was on THEIR property, yk? And if they verbally began preaching I'd simply chalk it up as a consequence of interacting with strangers. I don't see how their preaching is going to hurt me or my kids - we don't believe in any of their stuff so we shrug it off and head to the next candy-laden house. :)

[VaKim]

It was that way when I was a child also. We got candy, toys, money, colouring books, books, booklets, games, etc.

 

Same here. We used to get a lot of those little miniature comic book things.

[OnTheBrink]

No, you're right, it's not a great comparison. It would be silly to get mad at someone for opting out of participating. The tract thing is different to me, b/c it's not simply opting out (which would be acceptable), but deliberate subversion of a holiday others are celebrating, and subversion, as well, of other people's parenting. To me, that's not an issue of what's legal or what's not. It's a simple issue of ethics. I never understand it when people argue that, because something is not legally prohibited, they can make free to do it even if it is unkind, or even manipulative. It's one thing when it's just someone who gets a kick out of being mean, but I get really confused when people who make faith or morality a central aspect of their family life do it. I really, seriously do not get how those two behaviors intersect.

 

 

 

This is a hot button issue for me, I admit that. I think there's this very unpleasant aspect of being in the religious majority in any given region that causes people to feel entitled to do things that they would not want done to them. This discussion would not, I think, be about teachable moments if I was handing children literature that spread the good news about Paganism outside a church's Halloween-alternative event. When you add another aspect I frequently see among people who choose this kind of behavior, that of being gleeful b/c no one can legally stop them...it's just nasty. I find that very counter-intuitive when the ostensible intent of the behavior is to share something that's supposed to be improving to the soul of the recipient. Surely there's a better way to go about sharing one's faith?

 

A shut door, an explanatory sign, and a basket of available literature seems much more honest and above-board, btw.

 

Oh, and mommaduck, right on. I don't learn much from discussing these things with people who already agree with me.

 

In my mind, there's a huge difference between handing out a tract when kids come to the door on Halloween and going to a church function and handing out pagan tracts (if there were such a thing). In the trick or treat scenario, you're approaching someone's home on a night they feel is "evil" or "wrong" and asking them to participate in that. Yes, they could just turn out the light and ignore it, but some feel that it's a chance to share their faith. In the second scenario, the pagan is seeking out people who believe differently, at their specific place of worship or gathering, to counter their beliefs. I just see that as two completely different scenarios. Like, if I went to a Jewish temple on Hannukah (I can NEVER spell that!) and started telling them the story of the resurrection. Come to my home? You may hear the gospel. But you won't find me at your place of worship or gathering to do the same. Do you see the difference?

 

And, honestly, if my dd went t-or-ting at a Muslim's home, or a pagan's home and was given a tract, we'd most likely just toss it. I don't particularly see it as being manipulative. Now, if you were invited to a Halloween party and it turned out to be a children's church event, that's manipulative and deceptive and I disagree with that practice. I do NOT agree with tricking people or scaring people into salvation. That kind of salvation is false and I don't understand it.

 

I do agree that some are very nasty in the name of God. There are those who profess to believe yet seem to just be angry at those who aren't believers. (Fred Ph*lps family comes to mind) I don't get those people at all. Jesus was pretty straight-forward with His message and never resorted to deception or trickery or manipulation to get His message across.

 

And, I guess I don't really see much difference between a basket with literature on the porch and handing the child a tract. The child or parent can refuse it. I've never really seen anyone be overtly obnoxious when handing out tracts to trick or treaters, though. I've just seen people hand them out, stapled to a piece of candy and dropped in the bag, no real conversation over it being said.

 

And, yes, there probably are better ways to share faith than with a tract. I think statistically, tracts don't have a great track record (a small pun!), and I personally don't use them for anything. But some feel they need to "reach" as many as possible and using tracts is their way of going about it.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

And someone might say "Well, they aren't asking for that, they are asking for candy". It's Trick or Treating...not Give Me Candy. When I was a kid, people gave out all kinds of treats - homemade popcorn balls (which we were never allowed to eat lol), gum, money (pennies, nickels, etc), tracts, and candy. Money isn't candy, but it sure is a treat! And call me corny, but I think learning about Jesus is too :D So if someone wants to share that "treat", they have every right to. And people have every right to choose not to Trick or Treat.

 

But if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who has been a victim of a hate crime or other ugliness perpetrated by someone under the banner of "Christianity", it might not appear to be such an innocent thing.

 

We give out other things instead of candy as well, but they are an actual TREAT meant for the child. Even at our church festival, there is no preaching or proselytizing done at all. At Easter a lot of our little prizes have crosses and such, but the Halloween stuff is traditional candy and Halloween themed prizes. You might get invited to join us for breakfast and Sunday School, but that's as far as it goes. Considering that the festival is held at the church, we pretty much feel like those that come to it wouldn't consider that invitation offensive.