No books required at the local high school

[Soror]

Dh has a family of teachers and his aunt, a former English teacher,(now in alternative ed.) was ranting and raving about the fact that the high school is no longer requiring students to read full books, just excerpts on their Macbooks. Dh's nephew in 9th confirmed this was true. From what they were saying writing instruction seems to be pretty sparse too. I asked her what about AP classes but she hadn't heard anything specifically about those. 

 

If ever I start to think PS isn't so bad I hear something new and crazy, as DH pointed out, his family full of teachers only further solidifies our decision to homeschool.

 

I can't understand the idea that books are optional to education. More than once in our conversation I told them they should not tell my children this info lest they start a revolt with what I require:), although ds asked for more reading and harder work for school so perhaps I'm at least partially safe. Surprisingly DH's sister(nephew's mom) seemed unphased by this change despite the fact that she herself is a teacher as well(elementary).

 

Around here I don't feel like I compare but at least we are reading whole books!

Edited November 25, 2016 by soror

[kiana]

Excerpts are all that get tested on the bloody standardized tests, and we know that the only worthwhile outcome of education is that which can be measured on a standardized test, right? .........

[HomeAgain]

DS17 has used mostly whole books in his English classes, thank goodness.  The teacher he has right now is having them read through an anthology (British Lit) before diving into two turn of the century British novels in the spring.

 

I have actually been impressed with some of what he has read and the collection of books he has gained.

[8filltheheart]

Our school system doesn't have books for any subject. Everything is digital. (Even the actual teaching, apparently.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

I can kind of see the allure of discussing excerpts.  I've kind of resorted to that myself.  HOWEVER, we still do plenty of real full length books.  We just don't necessarily discuss them all. 

 

I have no idea what they do around here locally.

 

 

[City Mouse]

My son does not gat any physical textbooks, but he does have to read one full novel each semester for English. The novel are provided in digital format.

[Jann in TX]

No text books at our local high school either.

My dd (9th grade) has at least one novel every 6 weeks (paperback!!) to read in her Pre-AP English class... the regular English classes use mostly digital books.

 

DD is fine with her (school provided IPad) but would really like to go back to 'real' texts for math-- it is hard to look up problem types/helps in a digital menu.

 

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

Whole districts over here have adopted the book-less approach. Basically it comes down to money. Not enough money to really keep up on books, so no books. The wealthiest school in many of the districts have PTAs that front the textbooks. It is really twisted.

 

I will say that there are some aspects of digital books which Ds has learned greatly from. The imbedded audio files, flashcards, and short videos in his foriegn language curriculum have been wonderful. The embedded movies/simulations in his science curriculum have really been amazing at allowing him to see processes that he just didn't get before. However, his retention is low in general compared to a book. It sure seems like this is the sort of thing that could easily find middle ground, but doesn't ever seem to.

[Soror]

Whole districts over here have adopted the book-less approach. Basically it comes down to money. Not enough money to really keep up on books, so no books. The wealthiest school in many of the districts have PTAs that front the textbooks. It is really twisted.

 

I will say that there are some aspects of digital books which Ds has learned greatly from. The imbedded audio files, flashcards, and short videos in his foriegn language curriculum have been wonderful. The embedded movies/simulations in his science curriculum have really been amazing at allowing him to see processes that he just didn't get before. However, his retention is low in general compared to a book. It sure seems like this is the sort of thing that could easily find middle ground, but doesn't ever seem to.

There are some definite pluses to digital books, I can see why schools are going towards digital for the money aspect alone, being able to imbed audio and video is just a bonus(and wonderful for reaching a wider variety of kids). The big shock to me was not digital books but that they are not reading books in their entirety. Personally, I find physical books easier to study from but perhaps that is because it is what I'm used to, I'm not sure. I only go for digital if it is a massive saving in price and convenient to use.

[EndOfOrdinary]

There are some definite pluses to digital books, I can see why schools are going towards digital for the money aspect alone, being able to imbed audio and video is just a bonus(and wonderful for reaching a wider variety of kids). The big shock to me was not digital books but that they are not reading books in their entirety. Personally, I find physical books easier to study from but perhaps that is because it is what I'm used to, I'm not sure. I only go for digital if it is a massive saving in price and convenient to use.

I did not read many whole books in high school. At least very few were assigned - even in honors classes. I read quite a few because I wanted to. We listened to the audiobook of Walden and watched the movie of Moby Dick in honors American Lit. Even then I remember thinking it was quite a joke.

 

My husband teaches English and the district is pretty upfront about the amount of actual time he is allowed to expend on literature. Time is supposed to be spent on portions of English which are quantifiable. If a book is over 200 pages, they do not really want him taking the time. This leads to exerpts. It also leads to your wife spending lots of time looking for short classics or versions under a specific page limit :)

[Soror]

I did not read many whole books in high school. At least very few were assigned - even in honors classes. I read quite a few because I wanted to. We listened to the audiobook of Walden and watched the movie of Moby Dick in honors American Lit. Even then I remember thinking it was quite a joke.

 

My husband teaches English and the district is pretty upfront about the amount of actual time he is allowed to expend on literature. Time is supposed to be spent on portions of English which are quantifiable. If a book is over 200 pages, they do not really want him taking the time. This leads to exerpts. It also leads to your wife spending lots of time looking for short classics or versions under a specific page limit :)

I don't remember a ton of books but we did at least read some! With all the talk about how much homework there is in highschool I expected a fair amount of that to be reading books, I guess that just shows my ignorance of high school these days. I'm going to have to quiz another highschooler to find out more info. 

 

So what exactly is your husband supposed to spend his time on? I was surprised yet again when they said that they mostly work on grammar in English class.

Edited November 26, 2016 by soror

[Lanny]

Writing instruction = sparse = IMO, VERY BAD.  TTUISD students do a lot of Writing.  DD will take the EOC for English 1, early in December. Texas allows a maximum of 5 hours for that examination. I assume part of it will be spent writing an essay. If a student isn't experienced with  Writing, they will probably not be getting top grades in a university, if they get that far.  

[Guest]

Books were abandoned because most students here cannot read on grade level or better, and the District needs that money for special needs funding. Handing out books means two things...1. Parents can see how dumbed down the material is, and 2. The few students who can read will read them, and that skews the racial imbalance in the test scores the wrong way. The books that are used are purchased by the students, and they are only in AP/DE courses. The good news is that the library is still open, so those that want to can find on grade level or better material to borrow and read at home...I suspect that will last until the current teachers retire, as the AP/DE courses do make use of the library resources for papers. Writing instruction is done at University, two semester courses, for the majority. Essentially the district only offers on grade level instruction, by choice, and since there has been a statewide dumb down, college is the new high school.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't remember a ton of books but we did at least read some! With all the talk about how much homework there is in highschool I expected a fair amount of that to be reading books, I guess that just shows my ignorance of high school these days. I'm going to have to quiz another highschooler to find out more info. 

 

So what exactly is your husband supposed to spend his time on? I was surprised yet again when they said that they mostly work on grammar in English class.

 

I read more personally than I was assigned, but I too remember reading some full books. 

 

We did a bit of grammar in English in high school, but not much at all.  What I don't think we did enough of was writing.  We did very little writing overall.  I did the most writing in college. 

[Arcadia]

Here the local schools issued out Holt Literature and Language Arts 3rd Course: California Grade 9 to the 9th graders for the school year.

 

Summer reading to prep for 9th was The Grapes of Wrath. My district has a summer reading list for high school with one compulsory novel per grade and a few titles to pick from for to pick one. So at least two novels for summer homework to be handed in on their first literature lesson. Barnes and Noble locally would have the cheaper paperback versions out at start of Summer.

[lllll]

nm

Edited November 30, 2016 by cathey

[Janeway]

Writing instruction = sparse = IMO, VERY BAD.  TTUISD students do a lot of Writing.  DD will take the EOC for English 1, early in December. Texas allows a maximum of 5 hours for that examination. I assume part of it will be spent writing an essay. If a student isn't experienced with  Writing, they will probably not be getting top grades in a university, if they get that far.  

 

The EOC itself has very little in the way of writing. http://tea.texas.gov/Student_Testing_and_Accountability/Testing/State_of_Texas_Assessments_of_Academic_Readiness_(STAAR)/STAAR_Released_Test_Questions/

 

TTUISD is just a tough program. But what the state as a whole, all the public schools take, is quite simple. So public schools can get away with teaching very little and still passing the tests. And it the students don't pass the tests, it is not required for graduation anyway. If they turn 16 yrs old without passing, they become exempt.  Found that out just recently.

[Soror]

Books were abandoned because most students here cannot read on grade level or better, and the District needs that money for special needs funding. Handing out books means two things...1. Parents can see how dumbed down the material is, and 2. The few students who can read will read them, and that skews the racial imbalance in the test scores the wrong way. The books that are used are purchased by the students, and they are only in AP/DE courses. The good news is that the library is still open, so those that want to can find on grade level or better material to borrow and read at home...I suspect that will last until the current teachers retire, as the AP/DE courses do make use of the library resources for papers. Writing instruction is done at University, two semester courses, for the majority. Essentially the district only offers on grade level instruction, by choice, and since there has been a statewide dumb down, college is the new high school.

 

DH's aunt said the same thing about reading level, she had to lower the level of books she required because the kids couldn't read them. Overall she expressed that as it was the bright ones will still read higher level books at home and wlll be able to write just fine, even with little instruction. It is everyone else that gets left behind. 

I read more personally than I was assigned, but I too remember reading some full books. 

 

We did a bit of grammar in English in high school, but not much at all.  What I don't think we did enough of was writing.  We did very little writing overall.  I did the most writing in college. 

From what I remember of high school we did more grammar than writing and I don't remember much explicit instruction.

 

The EOC itself has very little in the way of writing. http://tea.texas.gov/Student_Testing_and_Accountability/Testing/State_of_Texas_Assessments_of_Academic_Readiness_(STAAR)/STAAR_Released_Test_Questions/

 

TTUISD is just a tough program. But what the state as a whole, all the public schools take, is quite simple. So public schools can get away with teaching very little and still passing the tests. And it the students don't pass the tests, it is not required for graduation anyway. If they turn 16 yrs old without passing, they become exempt.  Found that out just recently.

This is what I think about all the times people rail on homeschoolers, there are truly wonderful schools out there and some truly awful homeschools BUT there are a way too few number of kids who don't have access to a good school. Honestly, our schools aren't considered terrible here, I shudder to think what happens at the schools that are even worse.

[Guest]

DH's aunt said the same thing about reading level, she had to lower the level of books she required because the kids couldn't read them. Overall she expressed that as it was the bright ones will still read higher level books at home and wlll be able to write just fine, even with little instruction. It is everyone else that gets left behind.

.

We are seeing that the bright poor get left behind. They drop out of boredom, get into businesses that go nowhere, or to prison. It would be to their benefit to offer honors level math and science in middle and high school, as those types of materials arent available at the library or the CC, and they would do well at University in STEM majors if they were prepared.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[TranquilMind]

I don't understand it either.  I had one in a charter school a few years ago and they didn't have enough books for everyone so no one got them.  I'm sorry, but you really need them for certain classes, like languages and math.

 

I had to buy them on Amazon.  Ridiculous.  We still paid significant fees for everything. 

[TranquilMind]

We are seeing that the bright poor get left behind. They drop out of boredom, get into businesses that go nowhere, or to prison. It would be to their benefit to offer honors level math and science in middle and high school, as those types of materials arent available at the library or the CC, and they would do well at University in STEM majors if they were prepared.

 

I agree completely.  Brainpower does not limit itself socioeconomically.