Do you know of anyone who is very secretive about who they vote for? Edited in first post...

[LucyStoner]

We discuss politics. I've been very active in local party politics so it's not like it's a big secret. Our older son is quite interested in history and politics. We are very intentional about discussing all sides and letting him have the space to form his own (similar or differing) views.

 

I'm the sort of person who doesn't mind people knowing. Even people who I disagree with. I've never lost a friend over my political activities, and no I do not only associate with like minded people.

[Carrie12345]

My parents always kept their votes secret from us, and I assume everyone.

 

I did not realize exactly HOW open we are with our kids about it until I heard my 5yo say something about "It's (Candidate's) fault.  (Candidate) ruins everything!"  Or maybe I just let him watch too much Youtube.

 

I do believe that the whole "don't discuss religion or politics" concept is a contributing factor to our big problems, even if just reverberating from previous generations.

[eternalsummer]

I can't possibly be the only shamelessly partisan and vocal homeschool parent :)

 

I have been known to play devil's advocate though, especially when one of my children is behaving like me and annoying me with their shameless partisan politics. 

 

I don't consider keeping quiet about who I voted for to have anything to do with my privacy in the voting booth. 

 

 

We are super vocal and while not partisan exactly (there is not a political party in the US that represents our beliefs very well, but we generally vote Republican) we're quite opinionated and certain of the essentially correctness of our opinions :)

 

DD11 watched the debates with us this year - she is interested.  They were pretty entertaining, esp. the Rep. primary ones.  She gets a fair amount of liberal indoctrination from school, as the population tilts liberal there, which we've had to combat.  She comes home believing outright falsehoods (Trump says he will send all Mexicans out of the country! etc.)

 

Still, there were other things my parents never really talked about - once I asked Mom what religion we were (we'd just moved to a fairly homogenously Protestant suburb in the midwest) and she flippantly said, "Pagan."

 

Of course we weren't Pagans; mom is sort of un-pindownable when it comes to religion and Dad was a non-church-going ex-Baptist who thought he could figure out the Bible and Jesus just fine by himself.

 

But they'd never talked to me about religion one bit and didn't really want to, so for a few years I thought we were Pagans and told all my friends that.

 

Didn't go over well...

[eternalsummer]

So, ladies, educate me - is there a more general right to privacy re your vote in the US ? I thought the right to privacy only extended to the voting booth, and then followed your (anonymous) vote. In other words, a specific, not a general protection.

 

I can see not wanting to answer a child at the polling place itself, or in the voting booth.

 

But how does explaining to your child who you voted for and why at home violate the principle of a vote being cast privately ?

 

Not wanting to experience repercussions is a different matter, imo.

 

 

Well, I don't know about Australia, but in public schools here there is a lot of practice voting on various random issues.  We'd vote on what song to listen to during free reading time, or what movie to watch, or whatever.   We vote for student councils and Best Smile and drum major.    

 

Always, always, there is an emphasis on the secret ballot.  Possibly it is just the dynamics of school that encourages it, but in general teachers seemed to say that your ballot was secret and to preserve the effect of that secrecy, everyone should keep their vote secret (at least before they vote).  Doing otherwise, in the social pressure of a classroom, might make a true secret ballot impossible, as everyone would feel like they had to tell?  I'm not sure.  

 

But while there is a lot of open political discussion here, there is also the countervailing tendency to keep one's vote a secret.  M

 

Maybe it is kind of like salaries - we're happy to discuss how much engineers make and how much McDonald's cashiers make, even very specifically, but it is uncouth both to ask someone how much they make and to go around telling people, even to some extent your own kids.

[SKL]

So, ladies, educate me - is there a more general right to privacy re your vote in the US ? I thought the right to privacy only extended to the voting booth, and then followed your (anonymous) vote. In other words, a specific, not a general protection.

 

I can see not wanting to answer a child at the polling place itself, or in the voting booth.

 

But how does explaining to your child who you voted for and why at home violate the principle of a vote being cast privately ?

 

Not wanting to experience repercussions is a different matter, imo.

 

I think it does extend beyond the voting booth.  I want my kids to know that they can make whatever choice and be 100% free from any second-guessing, criticism, whatever, before or after the fact.  It's nobody else's business what I did in the voting booth.  The question they should be asking themselves is, what are *they* going to do in the voting booth and why.

 

I think it's similar to communicating about sex.  I may have views about this or that, which I may discuss with my kids; but no, I do not need to know what my adult children do behind closed doors, nor do they need to know about my experiences.  There is just no good reason to go there IMO, unless there's a medical issue to address.

Edited October 30, 2016 by SKL

[SKL]

And good point about the salaries.  I have never told my kids what I "make," and I don't recall my dad ever doing so either (my mom's nickname is CNN so maybe she doesn't count here).  Now granted, I don't actually know what I "make" since it's all up to the accountant who does our partnership taxes, but "how much do I have to spend" is not a topic of discussion.

 

Why?  Well, again, kids don't have the maturity to understand what it means anyway.  When I was a kid, if I heard someone made $12,000 a year I'd be like WOW!!  What I could do with $12,000!  Life is just way more complex than the way kids see it.  If I told my kids I voted for LeBron James for president, they would think he was my personal role model for all things in life.  Kids are just too black and white.  I have no problem discussing the individual issues, at an age-appropriate level.

Edited October 31, 2016 by SKL

[ikslo]

Why would my kids care about who I vote for? If they asked, I would answer, but it never ever came up until my kids were young adults and even then they haven't really asked about who I support but have just voluntarily told me who they support. We did talk about voting in general and the candidates and democracy and civics and . . .

My son cares about who I vote for. He sees it as his future we're messing with. He's quite opinionated about it actually. And we don't always agree. :D

 

My parents never talked about politics, and kept their voting choices to themselves. As a result I knew very little about politics as a young adult of voting age. I feel it was a disservice to us children. Maybe they voted differently, and that was the reason, but I would think will all their emphasis on education, they would have made sure that was part of my education. Maybe they thought the school was handling it.

[ikslo]

Oh SKL, I know exactly where this child could be going. Trust me. Mine didn't bring up politics in group situations unless he was sure of his audience, but hey, he really loves Washington DC! :D

DS asked to go to D.C. For his birthday this year!

[IfIOnly]

I don't feel the need to discuss my particular vote, but that doesn't mean I don't talk politics with my kids. My kids know about the presidential voting process and other government branches and processes and functions. Every four years we especially study the presidential election process.

[LucyStoner]

Why would my kids care about who I vote for? If they asked, I would answer, but it never ever came up until my kids were young adults and even then they haven't really asked about who I support but have just voluntarily told me who they support. We did talk about voting in general and the candidates and democracy and civics and . . .

For my older son the question would be "why wouldn't he care who I voted for?" Our kids are living in facinating times. He and his little brother have been sitting down with us while we fill out our ballots since forever. They are interested. My older son dragged me to several political rallies this season and bribed his little brother with his iPad so he could attend the caucus I convened rather than play outside on the playground, keeping an eye on his brother. He's been going door to door with local party endorsement packets with me. I don't make him do this. He wanted to. He carefully considered two local ballot measures before deciding if he would carry their materials too. He's only 13. I was the same way at 13 so perhaps this runs in the family, lol.

Edited October 30, 2016 by LucyStoner

[TranquilMind]

Eh, I am more secretive this election than I ever have been.  

 

But I tell select people.  

 

If Joe Blow on the street asked me, I wouldn't tell him.  

 

I must admit that this is true. 

 

But there are no good options (for me). 

 

[TranquilMind]

My son cares about who I vote for. He sees it as his future we're messing with. He's quite opinionated about it actually. And we don't always agree. :D

 

My parents never talked about politics, and kept their voting choices to themselves. As a result I knew very little about politics as a young adult of voting age. I feel it was a disservice to us children. Maybe they voted differently, and that was the reason, but I would think will all their emphasis on education, they would have made sure that was part of my education. Maybe they thought the school was handling it.

 

We debate nonstop around here, and are on both sides, and one is pretty centrist.

 

It's interesting, to say the least. 

 

[TranquilMind]

My dad and mom kept their politics to themselves, and I am the same. If I had to guess I would say my mom is Democrat and my dad was Republican. I really have no clue and don't care though. They are thoughtful people and I trust they do/did their best. My parents screwed up a lot of things, but I respect them deeply for their MYOB attitude and trust that I could do my research and do my best too. If my child asked, I guess I probably answer? I don't know if that will ever happen though. I am not party affiliated in any way either registered or in my voting habits.

 

Mine did, because they usually disagreed.  In those days, a husband was often the one to determine how "the family" should vote.  My mom just kept her mouth shut and voted for whomever she wanted. 

[Pam in CT]

My parents always kept their votes secret from us, and I assume everyone.

 

I did not realize exactly HOW open we are with our kids about it until I heard my 5yo say something about "It's (Candidate's) fault.  (Candidate) ruins everything!"  Or maybe I just let him watch too much Youtube.

 

I do believe that the whole "don't discuss religion or politics" concept is a contributing factor to our big problems, even if just reverberating from previous generations.

 

 

This is an interesting insight.

 

Having not grown up in an extended family where this sort of reticence was the norm, and not living now in a community where this sort of reticence is the norm, I've never much thought about it... I've always heard people who do adhere to this concept describe it in terms of interpersonal manners, which I understand and respect.  

 

But at a more macro level, I think I can see what you're saying... Our collective reluctance / inability to talk across the lines on subjects such as sexual violence or race, as examples, seem to me to impede rather than facilitate progress in solving them.  Perhaps there's something to be said for developing the muscles needed to hold the discomfort of talking through conflict... Anyway, thanks.

[tm919]

I don't tell people. Well, I tell my husband.

I hardly tell my husband anymore, we just disagree too much. He considers me part of the problem this time around.

 

As far as telling my kids, I do tell them if they ask -- but telling my 5 and 6 year old anything is like telling the whole town.

[regentrude]

I do not discuss politics with my students, and I keep my political opinion private in front of students because anything else would be unprofessional.

At home, however, of course I discuss politics with my children, and we discuss the candidates and the reasons behind our voting choices. That is a natural part of parenting and raising future voters. How can one NOT talk about these important issues that directly tie in with the value system in which we are raising them???

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the legal right to vote in privacy. The government has no right to know whom I vote for (and having grown up in a country without free elections, this is a really big deal to me). But this has absolutely nothing to do with my personal life and with divulging my choice to people I choose of my own volition.

 

I can see parents keeping their votes secret if they disagree and do not want to argue in front of their children. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

Kids saying things they're not supposed to is always a factor  :lol:

 

I don't get it.

 

Do you mean of course it was a factor by virtue of me being a kid or....really I don't know.  There was nobody I would have told because there was nobody to tell.

[regentrude]

I do believe that the whole "don't discuss religion or politics" concept is a contributing factor to our big problems, even if just reverberating from previous generations.

 

I agree. Those are very important topics to be discussed. Of course there will always be certain people with whom I would choose to avoid the topics in conversation because nothing good can come of it, but the blanket "don't discuss" seems counterproductive to me.

 

ETA: And I find it disturbing about this election that the discussion about actual political issues is conspicuously absent. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by regentrude

[luuknam]

I don't get it.

 

Do you mean of course it was a factor by virtue of me being a kid or....really I don't know.  There was nobody I would have told because there was nobody to tell.

 

Wait, your parents kept you locked in the basement???

 

I don't think she was referring to your parents when she made that comment.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Wait, your parents kept you locked in the basement???

 

I don't think she was referring to your parents when she made that comment.

 

Well look I didn't live in an area where neighbors talked about neighbors.  We didn't know anyone.  Me telling anyone anything would have been like telling random strangers random stuff that they aren't going to give a rat's butt about. 

 

KWIM?

[regentrude]

Well look I didn't live in an area where neighbors talked about neighbors.  We didn't know anyone.  Me telling anyone anything would have been like telling random strangers random stuff that they aren't going to give a rat's butt about. 

 

And if it is really important, kids can learn to keep their mouths shut.

 

I grew up under a totalitarian regime. We certainly knew not to mention anything in school or to strangers about our parents' political leanings (which greatly diverged from the regime ideology) and about the things discussed at home. Because there would have been actual consequences. Bad ones.

Edited October 30, 2016 by regentrude

[Zinnia]

I don't tell my kids.  

My oldest goes to public school (in 4th now; he also went to K and 1st).  He is a very implusive, black adn white thinker.  If he thinks it, he often says it.  :)  He does not understand discretion in any way.  In the last election cycle (when he was 6), my mom shared her strong, strong political views with him.  He chose to discuss them in a few awkward situations, and he is not good at being quiet and dropping it for later.  They were very difficult conversations, all very public.  I don't want to do that again.  :)

 

We also live in an area (and he goes to school--two different ones, but they've both been like this) that lean heavily away from our personal politics.  So, the county and schools are heavily, heavily blue, with even the red feeling a bit purple.  We are more moderate conservatives, but definitely conservative.  

 

He's in the 4th grade.  I don't want him to get into arguments with his friends over politics, which seems silly.  So we just don't give him that kind of information.

 

However.  By the next election, he'll be 14, and we'll likely tell him who we are voting for.  The baby will be 8 at that point, so she'll have information a bit younger than he does.  But she seems to understand discretion better, so I'm okay with that.  

[greenbeanmama]

My father was a (non-elected) judge for our state, and as such he was not allowed to associate with any political party.  That must have rubbed off on us children, as none of us would even think of declaring a political party - we (individually!) came to the decision that we don't agree 100% with any political party and choose to vote based on the individual persons who are running for office.

 

My mom's father was actually a judge as well, and they never discussed politics in their home.  She found out years later (she was in her 50's!) that her parents were different political parties and disagreed completely on politics, which is why it was never discussed.  Her dad didn't want to argue in front of the kids!

 

My husband discusses politics with our family (his parents, and dinnertime discussions at home), but I mostly just quietly listen.  I figure that politics is right up there with religion - I'd rather not preach to someone, but live out my beliefs with my actions.  In politics, that means setting the example by taking my children with me when I vote, and explaining how our government works, and of course helping them learn all those snazzy School House Rocks songs!

[SKL]

Yeah, my parents didn't discuss religion when we were little, because they didn't agree and didn't want fights about religion to ruin their marriage.  So I guess there is some comparison there.

 

My folks didn't disagree so much about politics.  But if they had, I could see it being an avoided topic.

 

Myself, I don't like to discuss it with my housemates around my kids, because it always seems to come down to the equivalent of "you are stupid."  However, when it's just me and my kids, I have more to say, but I'm still not trying to indoctrinate them.

 

As I keep reminding my friends - my kids aren't voting now and won't be voting for a while.  Today's candidates, rhetoric, scandals etc. will most likely be irrelevant when my kids start voting.  What they need to understand is the election process, the powers that are at stake, and the importance of filtering political speech (and lots of other BS too) on all sides.

[nd293]

Question for those who keep it to themselves...

 

Why don't you want others to know? Do you think they will judge you a certain way? Do you think they would start a debate that you'd rather not have? Are you private about a lot of things?

 

I just don't mind sharing things with others. :)

It's really important here to separate political opinion and voter privacy. They're not the same thing at all. I'm happy to discuss my political opinion with anyone half open-minded (I do know a couple of people who I just smile at while they needle me to find my opinion on hot-button issues). I would be quite happy to say which politician I like or agree with. But my vote - my mark on the ballot - is private. It is a cornerstone of modern democracy. You cannot ensure a free and fair election if people feel that their vote is not private. I am quite able to defend my position and I know my right to vote how I like. I keep my vote private for those who can't and don't, if you want to think about it that way. It's strictly an issue of principle.

[Carrie12345]

This is an interesting insight.

 

Having not grown up in an extended family where this sort of reticence was the norm, and not living now in a community where this sort of reticence is the norm, I've never much thought about it... I've always heard people who do adhere to this concept describe it in terms of interpersonal manners, which I understand and respect.  

 

But at a more macro level, I think I can see what you're saying... Our collective reluctance / inability to talk across the lines on subjects such as sexual violence or race, as examples, seem to me to impede rather than facilitate progress in solving them.  Perhaps there's something to be said for developing the muscles needed to hold the discomfort of talking through conflict... Anyway, thanks.

 

Right.  To me, manners are about HOW you converse.  Content, on the other hand, may be an issue in certain contexts, (teachers in elementary schools, or while bringing the new neighbors a welcome basket) but generally not a manners issue, imo.

 

I can read articles and watch debates to gather facts and limited opinions, but actual *discussion* brings points into sharper focus, whether they support or oppose my starting position.  And I do not consider my vote to be for myself, but for all citizens, now and in the future. It only seems right to take their views into consideration.

 

My parents discussed neither religion (outside of attending church and classes) nor politics with me or my sisters.  To this day, I don't know where my mother stands politically.  I suspect she considers herself one party while actually leaning toward the other. I don't know how she feels about immigration, welfare, fracking, Black Lives, teacher salaries, marriage equality, war, GMO patents, or college tuition.  While she is my mother and I love her, I often feel like I don't know who she is as a person, and that she can't really know me as a person if I can't talk to her about what matters to me.

 

Because "political issues" aren't boxed up topics, they're ideas that mold my life and the world I live in.  They dictate what I can and cannot do, what my neighbors can and cannot do, what my children and grandchildren will or will not be able to do.  They influence our health, our education, our career options, our safety, and our finances.  They shape a great deal of who we are on this planet in this moment.  I WANT people to know who I am.  And I want it to matter.

[Pam in CT]

re manners vs content / actually knowing who one another is...

Right.  To me, manners are about HOW you converse.  Content, on the other hand, may be an issue in certain contexts, (teachers in elementary schools, or while bringing the new neighbors a welcome basket) but generally not a manners issue, imo...

 

 

This distinction -- how we converse and interact as distinct from the topics about which we speak -- seems critical.  Naturally the content with brand-new acquaintances or near-strangers is more limited...

 

 

but to me, the civics importance of secret balloting (with which I totally, completely concur) is a wholly different thing from avoiding whole content areas with family members sharing a household...

...My parents discussed neither religion (outside of attending church and classes) nor politics with me or my sisters.  To this day, I don't know where my mother stands politically.  I suspect she considers herself one party while actually leaning toward the other. I don't know how she feels about immigration, welfare, fracking, Black Lives, teacher salaries, marriage equality, war, GMO patents, or college tuition.

 

_____

 

While she is my mother and I love her, I often feel like I don't know who she is as a person, and that she can't really know me as a person if I can't talk to her about what matters to me.

 

... which, as you say, would leave me feeling as if our relationship was pretty shallow.  My perspectives on the sorts of things you listed deeply reflect my values, and collective add up to who I am (my list would naturally be a slightly different list, but the identity dynamic is similar)...

 

____

 

... and I really can't imagine living in the proximity of a household, or even spending many hours in regular contact with a person, without sharing perspectives on such things.  As you say, we would not know each other.  To hold such reticence about discussing such subjects seems quite strange to me, and also... I dunno... sad.  Existentially alienating or something   :lol: , like each man is an island, unconnected in any deep or meaningful way with one another, eternally doomed to talking just about the weather.

 

 

Because "political issues" aren't boxed up topics, they're ideas that mold my life and the world I live in.  They dictate what I can and cannot do, what my neighbors can and cannot do, what my children and grandchildren will or will not be able to do.  They influence our health, our education, our career options, our safety, and our finances.  They shape a great deal of who we are on this planet in this moment.  I WANT people to know who I am.  And I want it to matter.

 

It matters.