Do you ever want to say to a college, "Get your act together?"

[FaithManor]

I am there.

 

First, WMU said we never filled out FAFSA. We have email confirmations from Feb.showing we did and that WMU was on the list to receive the report. It took three weeks of arguing with financial aid to make someone actually hunt it down. I spent hours on email and phone, and then they never sent his award letter so I had to go after them to get that.

 

Now? They misplaced his SAT score report so attempted to place him in COLLEGE ALGEBRA 1 which is not only remedial bit keeps him out of the biology and the statistics class he needs. Admissions has it and can't figure out why advising can not see it in the system. When I suggested they print a copy and attach it to an email to his academic adviser, they acted like I was asking for the sun, moon, and stars. The adviser will go get it if she has to and the dean of his deparnt is not happy and making calls so I know it will work out.

 

I hope this is just first year glitch. They are upgrading all of their computer systems and went to a new email provider recently which seems to

have something to do with it.

 

Sigh...it was much easier for the other two with U of MI. I hope this is not a signal of four years of bureaucratic angst. They have the only freshwater sciences and sustainability major in the nation so we need this to work out.

Edited June 3, 2016 by FaithManor

[regentrude]

We had some frustrations the first year when the financial aid office lost our tax return. Lost it, physically - it was delivered with confirmation. Then they made a huge deal out of allowing us to email it but only if we black out the SSNs because they are sensitive - yeah right, and you have an entire package of hardcopy floating around your office you cannot locate.... It was a PITA but got resolved. We learned our lesson and have DD hand deliver the tax return in person henceforth.

 

One college lost DD's application. They had clearly received it from the Common App, because they had managed to generate an applicant portal account for her, but then they marked transcript and LORs and basically all important stuff as incomplete. Arrgh.

 

But besides those, things worked out OK

Edited June 3, 2016 by regentrude

[Sahamamama]

No experience with kids in college, just :grouphug: .

[Matryoshka]

I'm about to mail off dd's Final Transcript this morning, and you're making me think maybe I should send it return-receipt like I did with homeschool Ed plans every year...

 

Also got a Financial Letter this morning from other dd's school that had the right scholarship $ amounts, but listed the wrong scholarship name (said she had a scholarship she'd never been awarded, and didn't list the one she actually got), so had to call to sort that out..

 

And in parallel bureaucratic nightmares... dealing with those CLEP people!  I wanted to put her English CLEP score on dd's transcript, and I realized I'd never gotten a copy of it.  There is no way to see your scores online, like there is for every.other.test. out there.  So I called.  Nope, they have no way to see her scores, Drone from College Board says.  I have to *snail-mail* or *FAX* them a hand-written paper form and pay another $20 for me to know what her actual score was!  Whaaat?  

 

So, I knew the CC had her score report, as they'd given her credit for it there (but her transcript from there doesn't list the score, just that she got credit).  I managed to have the CC's office hunt down their copy and tell me what the score was.  Yeesh.

 

Then, I needed to have the CLEP score officially sent to the 4-year school, as they need the official score from the College Board.  So, I dutifully filled out the paper form (no, there is no online form, and no email address to use) and hunted down a Fax machine - the one at dh's work was broken, so he managed to get the one from the '80's we had in the basement to send it, in theory - there was no confirmation.  So I call again to see if it got there.  Much nicer guy says that they pick up the Faxes in 24-48 hours, so he has no idea, but also mentions that I could just give him the information over the phone.  WHY is this useful info not mentioned anywhere on the website or the paper form as an option (nor did Drone mention it)???  Nice guy has no idea, but insists that I will not be charged the $20 again when and if they ever find that Fax that may or may not have gone through.  So I just did that.  And let's hope the charge doesn't show up twice on my card.  :glare:

[teachermom2834]

We had one school we applied to that had lots of glitches. They were nice but continually said they didn't have LOR (this was common app and I could see they were there and all the other schools had them). ACT scores missing, etc. it took many phone calls to help them download what they needed from the common app and to help them pull together all the info they needed. It was frustrating but I still have an overall positive impression of the school.

 

Ds went to a scholarship competition at the school and one of their selling points is their student work program and that students staff most of the offices including admissions. That made the difficulty dealing with that office make a bit more sense :)

[J-rap]

Definitely!  When my dd transferred to another school last year, they were clearly totally unorganized about that whole process.  It should have been a very streamlined 2-3 day process at the beginning of the school year, where they'd move in, meet other new transfers, tour the campus together, go over specific college information (things like who their advisors are, how to use printers there, how the cafeteria system operated, and a multitude of information that new students just need to know).  Instead, no one seemed to know what was going on, and everyone told them something different.  And it's not like it was a big sprawling university.  It was a small, private liberal arts college that did have a very good orientation/first few days in place for their freshmen class.

 

 

[klmama]

one of their selling points is their student work program and that students staff most of the offices including admissions. That made the difficulty dealing with that office make a bit more sense :)

 

This.  The college dc attended this last year had students answering phones.  They didn't know how to answer our questions, they didn't always know who to connect us to, and they gave wrong answers several times.  When in doubt, I called back at different times, hoping to get a full-time employee that had worked there more than a year. Those people were always extremely helpful.   

[Sebastian (a lady)]

One of the schools DS applied to could not find his College Board scores.  Neither his SAT nor his Subject Tests, so they had misfiled multiple score reports.

 

DS tried to handle it via email, but kept getting poor advice such as resending the scores using Rush Reporting (at our expense and ignoring the fact that CB wasn't doing Rush Reporting for several months this year) or sending the college his test registration score (as in his testing ticket number - it took 90 minutes to get those from CB and the admissions rep still couldn't find the scores).

 

Finally I ended up calling and explaining the problem.  When I was eventually transferred to the right person, it took all of 5 minutes for her to find the scores by looking in the report batches by test date (ie, using the same info the other rep had been given multiple times).

 

DS did not get accepted to that school.  It was a reach, but I do have to wonder how many sittings of the admissions board his file missed because they didn't have their paperwork together.

 

Lesson learned for applications is that the app isn't done when you hit submit on the Common App .

[FaithManor]

Well, an email stream, and many phone calls later. They have the problem solved. I am breathing a sigh of relief and was a good girl and did not lose my cool on anyone.

 

Now that said, new wrinkle. He still has to have a math for gen ed, no matter what. He needs a stats class for his major but the one that fits his schedule doesn't count for gen ed so he needs one more. He is guaranteed a seat in the right biology class now, but there is no section of calc 1 open this fall for those who do not need it for their major, they are limiting that as a gen ed because they have a record number of engineering and physics majors this year so nobody else is getting in unless majoring in math or chem or something like that. So he wants to take a different stats course which would satisfy both the gen ed requirement AND his math for his major .There is exactly one stats class that meets BOTH. And guess what?  There is only one section of it, offered at the same time as the BIO CLASS WE JUST GOT HIM INTO! :svengo: 

 

I told him to just forgo it. He's getting his gen ed English, sociology (anthropology 1200 and it meets both the gen ed as well as being a requirement for the major so two birds with one stone), and one other requirement of his major (another humanities that luckily meets both gen ed and major requirements at the same time) through geography with climatology course as well as his biology. It comes to 14 credits, and leaves room to get a credit of PE out of the way. Breathe deep buddy. You can get the stats class next semester when you take the next bio which does not conflict. He's holding out hope that they add another section and that it fits his schedule. However, since the bio and the geography are four credit classes, he has 14 now and the math would put him at 17. As a first semester freshman, I'd be happy to have him stay at 14. He can do 17-18 next semester after making the transition.

 

Normally, this would not have caused me so much angst. I expect some of this scheduling crazy at the beginning with a first year student. But on the heels of a three week nightmare with financial aid and then losing his SAT scores, it was a little much.

 

Coffee or nap. Can't decide. Coffee or nap......... :D  

[BlsdMama]

Not for DD at U of I.  However, for myself at CC - yes!  I spent an hour on hold waiting for Fin. Aid to verify that they DID receive missing paperwork a week ago but it just hasn't updated. Call them back the end of NEXT week.  Then had to turn around and call my advisor (whom I emailed bright and early Tuesday morning) because what they have on my transcripts from 1996 didn't all switch over, leaving me a credit short at the end of next semester unless I  took five classes.  That was never going to happen.  So I called.  She was there, available per the secretary, and sent me to voicemail.  Did she call me back?  No.  She finally answered my email but not the question I asked on voicemail.  I immediately emailed her back.  Response? Nope.

 

 Faith, I'm sorry you are getting a run around as well.  I vote for nap and then coffee, but it's probably too late. ;)

[Pegasus]

Yes, DD has had problems with the financial aid office every semester as they have variously shown her as not eligible for the state scholarships and/or have processed the wrong amounts of funding.  The folks staffing the financial aid office are friendly enough but the actual financial aid officers stay tucked away in their offices, leaving the students to deal with other students or staff who really don't seem to know that much and do not have the authority to make the needed changes.  I've had to go in person with DD each semester and just stand there not going away until they finally pull an FA officer from their office to deal with the issues. 

 

I've stayed calm but almost blew my top last semester when DD's account suddenly started showing a $500 bill from the PREVIOUS semester.  She couldn't get it resolved herself so I again showed up with her in person.  They insisted that she owed $500 because she had gotten a $500 refund check in error but couldn't tell me when the check had been issued or if/when it had been cashed.  Their "solution" was for us to bring the check back to them.  Ummm. . .DD never received a check, how do we bring it back?!?

 

So, it turns out that they had gone back and re-processed the last semester's aid, simultaneously issuing and mailing a $500 check AND posting a $500 debit owed to DD's account.  Argh!  We did get the check in the mail a couple days later and DD dutifully returned it to the office.  That's just messed up. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Yes, one of my sons was admitted to a very small college, and so was another young man with the exact same first and last name. There were so many mix ups that first semester. Ay yi yi.

 

I'm still not totally sure my son was actually admitted to that school. I think maybe the other kid was and my son just rode in on his coattails. (J/K...sorta)

What does your son think of the situation? Does he know about the mixups?  I hope he is doing well and has shown the school that he does indeed belong and that admitting him was a good thing.

[daijobu]

Yes, DD has had problems with the financial aid office every semester as they have variously shown her as not eligible for the state scholarships and/or have processed the wrong amounts of funding.  The folks staffing the financial aid office are friendly enough but the actual financial aid officers stay tucked away in their offices, leaving the students to deal with other students or staff who really don't seem to know that much and do not have the authority to make the needed changes.  I've had to go in person with DD each semester and just stand there not going away until they finally pull an FA officer from their office to deal with the issues. 

 

I've stayed calm but almost blew my top last semester when DD's account suddenly started showing a $500 bill from the PREVIOUS semester.  She couldn't get it resolved herself so I again showed up with her in person.  They insisted that she owed $500 because she had gotten a $500 refund check in error but couldn't tell me when the check had been issued or if/when it had been cashed.  Their "solution" was for us to bring the check back to them.  Ummm. . .DD never received a check, how do we bring it back?!?

 

So, it turns out that they had gone back and re-processed the last semester's aid, simultaneously issuing and mailing a $500 check AND posting a $500 debit owed to DD's account.  Argh!  We did get the check in the mail a couple days later and DD dutifully returned it to the office.  That's just messed up. 

 

And for this they call us helicopter parents.  Sheesh.  

[G5052]

LOL. I just did. I even used to work there as a professor. I tried to be polite. Really.

 

We finally got there in person (which they insisted we had to do) to tell them that his AP Latin should be applied as general humanities credit. We already provided the score report and the credit evaluation form. Three times they insisted that he was fine (no, not a general elective, a general humanities credit), and three times they told me to provide them with an official score report, which we already did. That's why the credits were there as general electives. We want them moved into the general humanities credit. He's an accounting guy and wants to focus on that.

 

Finally there was a course substitution form which comes after the credit evaluation form we already did, and I think we got it. I'll note that initially they said it couldn't be done because they don't offer Latin, but I showed them on their website where it's listed that a 4 or 5 gives you 6 credits of foreign language -- which TA-DA can be used for general humanities credit per the footnote on THEIR WEBSITE. It took two advisors and two phone calls to confirm it could be done.

 

Then we had been told to bring a sealed official transcript in because he's transferring in credits from a neighboring CC in the same system. Actually, no. They just need you to fill out an in-system transfer form because they can already see the credits. You just fill out their form, and they do the research. That one goes in as a general business elective, which he needs. We'll see if that ends up there. I'm hanging on to the transcript.

 

We came prepared with his advising form which lists all the categories his credits go into, AP score report (just in case), a copy of the credit evaluation form, and a sealed transcript from the neighboring CC.

 

My comment, does this really have to be so complicated? Each form was a different color and had to be filled out and signed before they'd look on their system. I guess they either don't trust the people or the computer? Maybe neither?

 

I truly was polite, but these are the people that are supposed to know the score. What do students do who aren't aware of this sort of thing and really need an informed adult to come along?

 

Sigh. Call me helicopter mom. And we just saved some $$$ too.

 

He'll take a CLEP in August for his lit credit, and we'll probably have to shepherd that through too.

 

Hopefully we have everything on track for him to graduate next May and transfer into a competitive business school at a 4-year.

Edited June 7, 2016 by G5052

[daijobu]

 

 

I truly was polite, but these are the people that are supposed to know the score. What do students do who aren't aware of this sort of thing and really need an informed adult to come along?

 

Sigh. Call me helicopter mom. And we just saved some $$$ too.

 

 

 

Let alone a student who is the first in family to attend college. 

 

"Helicopter parent" ought to be a badge of honor.  But that doesn't generate clicks or sell books and magazines.  

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Let alone a student who is the first in family to attend college. 

 

"Helicopter parent" ought to be a badge of honor.  But that doesn't generate clicks or sell books and magazines.  

 

I was thinking today that it is really hard to coach a student through all of the details that come between acceptance and arrival for fall semester.

 

There are so many different screens, surveys, forms, contracts and deadlines to keep track of.

 

DS has spent the last couple weeks trying to determine if attending orientation is an absolute requirement or something he can do right before classes start.  It is a difference of several thousand dollars to get him to and from the mainland an extra time.  There are overlapping areas of responsibility and obligation between the orientation office, the college of engineering office, and the Corps of Cadets office.  And that is just the stuff we can figure out.  

 

On the other hand, most of the people we've contacted have tried to make things smooth and doable.  There is just so very, very much.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Let alone a student who is the first in family to attend college. 

 

"Helicopter parent" ought to be a badge of honor.  But that doesn't generate clicks or sell books and magazines.  

I agree.  Although I went to college, DS is the first male on either side to attend and certainly the first to be working at such a high level. His entire summer internship fiasco makes me want to bang my head against the wall.  I really want to contact the school and get involved but DS asked me to stay out of it.

[FaithManor]

I was thinking today that it is really hard to coach a student through all of the details that come between acceptance and arrival for fall semester.

 

There are so many different screens, surveys, forms, contracts and deadlines to keep track of.

 

DS has spent the last couple weeks trying to determine if attending orientation is an absolute requirement or something he can do right before classes start.  It is a difference of several thousand dollars to get him to and from the mainland an extra time.  There are overlapping areas of responsibility and obligation between the orientation office, the college of engineering office, and the Corps of Cadets office.  And that is just the stuff we can figure out.  

 

On the other hand, most of the people we've contacted have tried to make things smooth and doable.  There is just so very, very much.

I agree. I was talking this over with my sister who lives in France. She said the process is much less complicated there so there is very little for the students to manage here than there.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I agree. I was talking this over with my sister who lives in France. She said the process is much less complicated there so there is very little for the students to manage here than there.

 

It was very different for me at a service academy.  There was a lot of steps to the application process, but because we started on July 1, so much was built into the plebe summer time.  We had a lot of course assessments and placement test (at least math, English and foreign language) and then received our schedules at the end of the summer.  Even for subsequent semesters, we would put our desired courses into a computer program and hope for the best.  

 

I really didn't have to make so many decisions about housing, food plan, courses, etc.  I didn't even have to decide what to wear most days, because it would be in the Plan of the Day and there would be an announcement if we were supposed to wear overcoats or rain gear (and then everyone would).

 

But then I was also shocked to hear that at "normal" colleges, students have to move out of their rooms for spring break and Christmas holidays.  Our rooms would be locked up if we left, but there were always people staying around for sports, restriction or just because home was too far away.

 

I have been reflecting on the helicopter parent calumny.  I think there are some parents who step in too early and are micromanaging (I struggle to think of a reason I would call and argue with a professor or call a potential employer unless it was to tell them my son was injured).  But I also think that it is really challenging to see the run around that students can get and know that if you could make a call and be a persistent voice that was clearly an adult that things would be cleared up more quickly.  It can be hard to coach a student through the right questions to ask and how to be persistent and assertive without being obnoxious and disrespectful.  I've watched kids not ask follow up questions because they don't want to sound dumb or disrespectful, even when what they are being told doesn't make sense or answer their specific situation.

[daijobu]

  It can be hard to coach a student through the right questions to ask and how to be persistent and assertive without being obnoxious and disrespectful.  I've watched kids not ask follow up questions because they don't want to sound dumb or disrespectful, even when what they are being told doesn't make sense or answer their specific situation.

 

It can be difficult with financial aid which is so terribly capricious and complicated and fraught with errors.  I'm linking to a sad article about a gal, first in family to attend college, who had her financial aid award unilaterally changed without her knowledge.  It's a long, sad article, so I'm reproducing the relevant bit here:

 

 

By counting money the family did not have, Emory not only increased the amount it expected Angelica to pay in addition to her financial aid. It also disqualified her from most of the school’s touted program of debt relief. Under the Emory Advantage plan the school replaces loans with grants for families making less than $50,000 a year. Moving Angelica just over the threshold placed her in a less-generous tier and forced her to borrow an additional $15,000 before she could qualify. The mistake will add years to her repayment plan.

She discovered what had happened only recently, after allowing a reporter to review her file with Emory officials. “There was no other income coming in,†she said. “I can’t believe that they would do that and not say anything to us. That seems completely unfair.â€

Emory officials said they had to rely on the information Angelica provided and that they will not make retroactive adjustments.

“The method that was used in her case was very standard methodology,†said J. Lynn Zimmerman, the senior vice provost who oversees financial aid. “I think that what’s unusual is that she really didn’t advocate for herself or ask for any kind of review. If she or her mother would have provided any additional information it would have triggered a conversation.â€

Unaware she had any basis for complaint, Angelica found a campus job she loved, repairing library books.

 

 

It seems universities expect parents to be shepherding their kids through financial decisions that frankly are beyond the capacity of most full-time students to comprehend.  

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It can be difficult with financial aid which is so terribly capricious and complicated and fraught with errors.  I'm linking to a sad article about a gal, first in family to attend college, who had her financial aid award unilaterally changed without her knowledge.  It's a long, sad article, so I'm reproducing the relevant bit here:

 

 

By counting money the family did not have, Emory not only increased the amount it expected Angelica to pay in addition to her financial aid. It also disqualified her from most of the school’s touted program of debt relief. Under the Emory Advantage plan the school replaces loans with grants for families making less than $50,000 a year. Moving Angelica just over the threshold placed her in a less-generous tier and forced her to borrow an additional $15,000 before she could qualify. The mistake will add years to her repayment plan.

She discovered what had happened only recently, after allowing a reporter to review her file with Emory officials. “There was no other income coming in,†she said. “I can’t believe that they would do that and not say anything to us. That seems completely unfair.â€

Emory officials said they had to rely on the information Angelica provided and that they will not make retroactive adjustments.

“The method that was used in her case was very standard methodology,†said J. Lynn Zimmerman, the senior vice provost who oversees financial aid. “I think that what’s unusual is that she really didn’t advocate for herself or ask for any kind of review. If she or her mother would have provided any additional information it would have triggered a conversation.â€

Unaware she had any basis for complaint, Angelica found a campus job she loved, repairing library books.

 

 

It seems universities expect parents to be shepherding their kids through financial decisions that frankly are beyond the capacity of most full-time students to comprehend.  

 

I remember reading this article a few years ago.  It still ticks me off.  Not only did the student end up in a bind, but she was encouraged to go to a highly selective school that was distant from her family and the support it could have offered her.  I feel like some of the people in admissions and school to college programs count successfully getting students accepted as feathers in their cap, without really thinking about best fit for that particular student.  

 

Not to veer into a discussion of over or under-matching students.  Simply an observation that it seems like some groups want to be able to add to the list of selective schools "their" kids have gotten into or want to be able to claim they have students from every state or from this or that underrepresented category.  Once the student is enrolled, sometimes it seems like they are just supposed to know all that comes next and where to find help if they need it.  (Is a student really supposed to know that financial aid offers can be appealed?  Isn't it more likely that the student and her family will assume that what they got is what they get, after submitting so many pages of documentation for review the first time?)

[Granny_Weatherwax]

<snip> 

 

 Once the student is enrolled, sometimes it seems like they are just supposed to know all that comes next and where to find help if they need it. <snip>

My biggest concern is not with financial aid but with career counseling, grad school options, internship opportunities, and whatnot. As a first generation college student who did well academically, I found that most people assumed I knew how to get from point A (undergrad) to point B (successful career), especially because I attended one of the Seven Sisters.  

 

Yes, I knew how to study, get good grades and do well in class.  I did not know to be looking for relevant work experience or summer opportunities. I went home in the summer and worked so I could afford my expenses the next year.  I worked on campus when I wasn't studying so I could afford my immediate expenses.  No one ever asked me what I wanted to do after graduation, steered me toward career development, or helped me set up a plan.  I feel as if I was a feather in the college's cap.  "Look, we took this impoverished young woman from CO and gave her a great education.  She graduated in four years and is now ready to conquer the world.  By the way, would you like to contribute to the Alumni Fund?  Your class goal is 1 million dollars."

 

(longer response deleted as I think it became a woe is me rant)

 

Edited June 9, 2016 by ScoutermominIL

[G5052]

It's the complexity of it all that is such a problem. I think all the nuances have become so great that it's overwhelming both them and the students.

 

I had DS print out his "advising report" when we were trying to work out his issues, and the thing is SEVEN pages long of dense text. Some years ago I took advising training and volunteered as an advisor in the weeks before classes started, so I knew what to look for. But really? SEVEN pages. Poor DS looked at it and couldn't figure what it meant until I explained it all. I think he still feels overwhelmed with it.

 

And then when we went in to meet with advisor, they kept giving us the wrong answer until I pushed them to look at their own website and catalog. It doesn't instill confidence, does it? And this was during their "quiet season" before the August rush, which is why we went this week. 

 

I don't know what his scholarships will be yet (they're having system problems), but if we had to pay for the classes that need to be moved out of general electives and into special categories, it would be over $1000 with textbooks and such. So we saved ourselves $$$ and DS's time by pointing out their errors. I imagine that students less aware have been told to register and pay for classes that they really didn't need to take. Sad.