High school choice

[Innisfree]

---Please don't quote---

 

Anyone want to help me think this through?

 

Dd will be starting 9th grade in the fall. She is currently at a small parochial school after 3+ years of homeschooling. She has the choice of staying at her current school or switching to the local public school for high school.

 

The parochial school is supposed to be academically challenging, but in reality dd is bored. In the fall she should be able to move into some honors classes, though we don't know how different that will be: the required reading list for the honors class is the same as that for the regular class. Average SAT scores are markedly better than at the public school, though.

 

The parochial school is simply so small (class of roughly 30) that they have few options for extracurricular activities. Dd is already frustrated by this. It is also cliquish. Dd says everyone is polite, but she is having trouble finding friends who share her interests.

 

The public high school has a long-standing bad reputation because of drugs, alleged gangs, and lousy administrators. It's not a really, really bad school, though: it ranks just above the 50th percentile nationwide on some website I found. It is very significantly larger than the parochial school, has a wide range of extracurriculars (some of which do well in state-wide competitions), and would free up money for dd to pursue other interests. We are investigating whether dd would be able to move straight into the honors program if she chose to attend there. It will also have the same girl in dd's grade, also in the honors program, whose bullying spurred us to start homeschooling in the first place. Dd still has nightmares about this kid. :-(

 

Homeschooling is not an option, for assorted excellent reasons.

 

Any thoughts?

 

ETA: Please don't quote!

Edited March 26, 2016 by Innisfree

[hornblower]

would there be lots of other students starting fresh at the this school in Sep? Not sure how your system works but I'm wondering if the kids there will all know each other from prev grade or if there will be new kids coming in from middle school?  Because if there are lots of fresh faces and much mingling of new kids arriving, then I'd say it makes it easier to join, rather than being 'the new kid'. 

For the other girl issue - how big is the school? large enough that they might not even cross paths? How does  your dd feel about seeing this girl again? Is your dd more mature and recovered and strong enough to handle facing this and moving past it if necessary? 

Otherwise I'd look at this

- how good are the SAT scores for the honors program kids in the public school? 
- can you speak to the teachers in the honors program and get their sense of how challenging their program is? 
- are the extracurriculars things she actually will want to do be involved in? 

- will those extracurriculars challenge her academically or will she still be academically bored but just busy with sports and rec clubs? 

 

And have you spoken to your current school and told them your child is not feeling challenged? Will she have different teachers next year? Perhaps the teachers next  year will be different, or if they hear from a parent that a girl is bored, will be more willing to create a more robust academic program or give additional opportunities and projects? 

 

hth :) 
 

[EmilyGF]

Often schools have "schools within schools." This was my school growing up - the school's scores were significantly less than our neighboring community, so we always thought it was a worse school. Once NCLB came around and required separating scores, it was found that there was an awesome school (as good as the neighboring community and made up mainly of wealthier kids) and a lousy school (made up mainly of poorer kids). Yeah, that is lousy in many ways, but it shows that there is more than meets the eye to school ratings. 

 

This same thing is true for the school down the street from us now, which has 74% of students below the poverty line. But there are some amazing things going on there.

 

Find out about honors/AP options, outside programs (our school nearby has some partnerships with the university in town). 

 

Maybe the bullying would ease up because of age? My best friend's older sister tormented me from grades K-4, when she left the school, but acted like she was a friend of mine when I got to high school. I seriously think she had completely forgotten how mean she had made a point to be to me and just saw me as a girl she remembered from before. Now she's an upstanding citizen. :-)

 

Emily

[EMS83]

Is it possible to get back into the parochial school if she tries the public school and it turns out badly?  How about joint enrollment?

[Reefgazer]

The drugs, gangs, and lousy administrators would make the public school a no-go for me.

[Innisfree]

To answer a few questions quickly...

 

A lot of students at each school will already know each other, plus there will be a few new ones at the parochial school, and about half from a different middle school at the public school.

 

Dd is definitely worried about seeing her old nemesis. They would probably share a class or two, and would share a bus stop and bus ride. They are neighbors. Paths haven't crossed much lately, but about a year ago dd tried to make friendly overtures which the other girl ignored. Dd is quiet and shy, other girl is confident and more socially nimble.

 

The "school within a school" scenario is what I'm hoping for. We're talking with counselors at each school soon to find out more. I appreciate hearing what others think-- I'm trying to make sure I ask all the right questions when I get a chance.

[kroe1]

Stay where she is.

[Chris in VA]

Just throwing this out there--

Is there another public high school in your town? Could you ask for a transfer there?

 

Our situation--When ds came home from treatment, we did not want him at his old high school. It, too, had drug dealers and gangs and such--and he knew a ton of people. Our town has two big high schools, so we checked into getting a transfer for him (I think it was called a hardship transfer).

It wasn't ideal--the "rich kids" went there, and honestly, they had just as many problems as the kids in the other school. It was the best choice we could make at the time, however.

 

Perhaps that would work for you?

[DawnM]

Any other choices?  The PS would be a no from me.  Any other private schools?  A charter school?

 

I would be looking, but not at your local PS.

[Night Elf]

I wonder what kinds of extracurriculars your dd is looking for. I can see an athlete looking for team sports, especially if they are trying to get into that sport outside of high school. But just for clubs? I don't know if i would choose the public school just for that reason. Can you find her some other opportunities to socialize? I used meetup.com once to find a group for my son with Aspergers. What about a place that offers sewing classes, or crochet or knitting, something like that? Does she have even one friend where they could find something to do together?

 

My dd started public school as a 9th grader but it's a decent school. She's never had more than a couple of friends though. Being in a school isn't an automatic given you'll acquire lots of friendships.

[bettyandbob]

Is your neighborhood public high school the only public high school you can go to. I live in the same district as Chris in VA and we have lots of transfer possibilities--though only one might apply to a particular student. 

1. Foreign language wanted not offered at neighborhood school (all our schools have the usual French, Spanish, Latin, but Japanese, German, Korean, Russian and Chinese are offered around the district). If this option is taken the student would have to stick with the language 4 years. 

2. IB v. AP offerings. If a student wants to go to an IB school they must stay on IB track. dd has friends who got placement at her school and stayed in IB until half way through 12th when they informed teachers they were not completing the IB project (this is a huge thing, which in our district does not affect overal GPA)

3. academies. we have academies that specialize in computers/technology, health sciences, business more typical vocational like automotive and cosmetology. These student often earn vocational certifications like vet tech. I know many students who opted for academies still went to typical 4 year universities. 

4. other stuff

 

I'd start searching everything locally to find out the options where you live. Some districts are very small but combine with others to offer extra options. This combining may not be immediately known to someone considering enrolling or even families attending the local school. You need to dig around. 

 

Find out more about honors options. At some schools the kids who take honors classes never interact with the general population except in something like PE. Essentially, they have a small school within a school. This can be good and bad. Some of the negative influence of things like gangs is removed. But being small you can have the same cliquish behavior you describe at the parochial school. 

 

Another option in our district is to take classes part time at the high school and take online classes. Our high school has 7 periods a day. The district has many core classes as online options. They have some honors classes online and some AP courses online. My dd knows a girl who takes 3 classes online. Due to block schedule that means she only come to school 2 or 3 days a week ("A" days have 4 classes). I believe a student can take up to 7 classes online at no cost. My dd took an online class as a freshman, but it was an 8th class so we had to pay for it. This year my dd is a senior. She is taking 5 classes at school and one AP online. We are not paying for the AP course. The online classes in our district follow the school schedule and the student would need to be working regularly independently. So, while you said homeschool was not an option would a hybrid of online and onsite classes be an option?

 

I would think seriously about the presence of the bully. I went to high school with some who bullied me in elementary school. We didn't go to middle school together. We had no classes together. We weren't on the same sports. The school was large, but she was in the hall and cafeteria. I had a lot of anxiety and depression. I ended graduating a year early. I was an advanced student and accelerated all my classes anyway. I could have stayed to have a fun senior year, but I was so unhappy there was no way senior year would have been a healthy experience for me. That was my experience. Your dd's might be different. 

 

If your dd goes to the parochial school what happens? Is it more of the same stuff she's already done. Do the high schoolers get involved in special projects (academic research or community based). Is the school flexible enough that if you found a special project or internship for dd she could pursue it? I'd think about opportunities at local businesses, nature centers, community centers. Where I live a very science or tech oriented kid might find something with a government or research facility. I realize not all localities have a huge amount of options, but it's worth considering what's out there. 

 

When you say free up money to pursue other interests, what all the other interests. All they things in which dd could do volunteer activities to trade time for lessons or coaching. 

[Innisfree]

We've talked to the school about a transfer, but she must be enrolled there before they will even entertain the notion. I doubt it would work out. There is a significant difference between the two local schools, and a great many people would love to get their kids into the better one. And by the time she's enrolled there, it would be too late to switch to the private school.

 

I doubt the school would take the problem with the other girl seriously. It was never documented through the schools, simply because we'd struggled with them on other matters and had given up. And she is not perceived as a bad kid: she's an extremely bright high achiever who's probably bored, and her empathy hasn't quite caught up with her other abilities. I don't think she is a bad kid, if such a thing exists. But she was extremely cruel to dd.

 

Thinking more, one could argue the real problem isn't the other girl, but dd's lack of self-confidence. She and I have talked about the issue of giving this kid so much power over dd's life and choices. She's already getting counselling. She's thinking it over.

 

As for the drugs and gangs, while they don't make me happy, the parochial school has its own drug issues. It's known as a "wealthy kids' school," though actually a lot are on scholarship, and there are a lot of unhappy kids with more money than parental involvement. So on that issue, the choice isn't quite as clear as I probably made it sound at first.

 

I'm afraid we're really in the realm of no perfect choices. I kind of think the public school, despite its problems, would offer dd more scope for growth if she could get past the issue of the other kid. It's just got so much more diversity of experience and thought and opportunity. But I also feel a bit crazy for considering leaving a place with smaller classes, more personal attention, better test scores. The test scores are just an average, though. And small boxes can get stifling.

 

Anyway, thanks for giving me things to think about.

[Innisfree]

The extracurricular she wants is drama. The private school has very little, and it involves the whole school, elementary-12th, and is parent-led. Dd loves Shakespeare. The public school has en extensive listing of drama and theatre classes and multiple productions each year, plus kids do the costumes, backstage, etc which are handled by parents in the private school.

 

And, ETA, I see the irony here that she's shy and worried by dealing with the other kid but happy to be on stage. I guess they're different sorts of anxieties.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Innisfree

[snowbeltmom]

It sounds like you have two different issues to evaluate:  academic and social.

 

Based on SAT scores, it appears that the academics at the private school are better than the overall academics at the public school. I would ask both schools for the average SAT scores for their students in the honors track - then you would be comparing apples to apples.  I would also ask each school whether their students are required to take the AP exams if they take an AP class and then ask to see those AP test scores.  A low number of students sitting for the AP exams or low AP scores would be another data point I would consider when evaluating the academic piece.

 

Another question I would ask regarding AP exams would be how many AP classes are offered each year.  According to my public school's profile, they offer over 15 AP classes.  However, many of the classes are not offered every year, and many times due to scheduling, students have to choose between AP Physics and AP Chem. 

 

My public school does not permit shadowing.  I would check to see if your daughter would be able to shadow a student for a day at the public school.

 

How bad is the drug problem at the public school?  The drug problem at my public school is bad, even among the kids on the honors track.  Growing up, I attended a similar high school.  It can be very isolating when you have no desire to participate.  If drugs are not an issue at the private school, this factor would weigh heavily in my decision to remain at the private school. 

 

Is it possible for your daughter to remain at the private school, but participate in extracurricular activities at the public school?  My state permits this, but many families and school officials are unaware that this is an option.  I would pose this question to your state board of education and not the local school since the local school may tell you that is not an option when it actually is simply because they are not up to date on all of the issues.

 

Good luck with your decision.

 

ETA: I was writing as you were posting.  Are there opportunities for your daughter to participate in drama outside of the public school?  Drama is big in my area, and there are a lot of clubs that run year-round that are not affiliated with the public schools.  I have two friends whose kids are in different districts who participate in the regional drama club instead of the clubs at their public school.

Edited March 27, 2016 by snowbeltmom

[bettyandbob]

Is the former bully in drama. If she is I don't see going to the public school.

 

If the former bully is established in multiple sports and your dd gets involved in theater they may never interact. 

 

What do you have in the way of community theater? We have a community theater here. kids can volunteer back stage and try out for productions. Plus, our community center has inexpensive drama classes for kids--they would take high school volunteers to help with those. Have you investigated local offerings. 

[Innisfree]

No shadowing here. When I talked to a registrar she was puzzled by the suggestion of touring the school and said they couldn't do that either.

 

We have a couple of summer options for drama, which dd is pursuing. Nothing else-- small town.

 

I may try to find out what the other girl's current interests are. I'm also going to see if dd could take part in after-school activities or take just a few classes at the public school. I really appreciate those ideas.

 

Realistically, if dd goes to that school, she has to be prepared to deal with the bully. They would both be in the honors program, which is a relatively small part of the school.

[catz]

Any opportunities to open enroll into another district?  Just another thought.  I went to a small parochial school for K-8 and then a public high school.  I MUCH preferred the public high school.  It is so easy to get pigeon holed at a small school and some times do better with more types of people and more opportunities.  I definitely did.  After that, I also chose to go to a huge public university.

 

How many kids are in the classes that the bully would be in?  If it's a large class, and your dd is more confident, that might not deter me.