DD is exhausting!

[Lovedtodeath]

DD is exhausting. Everything she does is designed to irritate and annoy. She will ask me to repeat things when she heard them okay, just wants to make more work for me. She talks every 30 seconds every waking moment. I am not exagerating. I am tired. I am too exhausted to talk that often. I am so worn out it is making me angry. But most of her exhausting behaviors aren't really bad, so I don't know what to do about them. She will not sleep by herself at all. She will not go into a different room without me about half the time. She is too scared to pick up her toys or go to the bathroom herself. She will never stay in a separate room to play or read. She does things to irritate her brother just to irritate. I am so tired of fighting with her all day long. Everything ends up a fight because she argues every word I say, or has to hear it 5 times, or continues to do something when I say stop b/c she thinks it is funny when I physically restrain her. She takes more energy than any child I have ever come accross. And I do know this. I had a daycare with 13 kids ranging from Newborn to 14, (They came on different days not all at once.) I helped raise my 4 nieces and nephews, and I was a nanny for a 15 month old and his 4.5 year old sister. What can I do??

[Alana in Canada]

Hey--send my daughter home!

 

 

Actually--mine is 8--she only stopped coming into our room to sleep in our bed at night this JUNE!!

 

I read and re-read Boundaries by Townsend and McCloud in order to remember how to deal with her.

 

I have been known to cover my ears and say. "Stop talking. Stop talking. I can't hear you. I'm too tired right now."

 

Sometimes, in the car we'll play a game where she has to be silent for thirty seconds. Sometimes she'll last a minute!

 

Sorry I can't offer more help. Perhaps someone who's btdt can help us out!

[Karen sn]

It's called manipulation.

Better nip it in the bud.

I don't care who it is who is annoying me - I remove myself (or them) from the situation.

When my dd tries to pull that crap with me (which is now extremely rare) she finds her butt all alone in her room.

 

I just let her know that in order for me to be a good mom I need to make sure she has manners and respect.

If not, she has to be all alone in the room because I won't let her make me be a cranky mother.

[Lovedtodeath]

How do you do that? How do I decide when a behavior is bad enough to punish her for it? Did you have to start out carrying her to her room b/c she would refuse to go? Guard the door b/c she will refuse to stay? What do you do with the toddler while disciplining the older child? What about all the crying and screaming she does in her room.

 

Thank you Karen, for responding. I really am looking for answers. Alana, I will look into that book as well.

 

P.S. see my other thread... she really kicked it up a notch this week:

6 year old + toddler = banging my head

Edited September 28, 2008 by Lovedtodeath

[Aggie]

Our ds was similar when he was 5, or tried to be!

 

First thing in the morning, when you are relaxed, or caffeinated, sit her down and talk about one of her behaviors. Or, really, what you expect. Personally, I would start with first-time obedience.

 

Although it's not imperative at her age, I would explain why she needs to obey right away. So you can protect her. Make it a fun game in the morning...you say jump 3 times, she says 'yes, mom' and jumps 3 times. Do this with several small activities. Practice all through the day with little things. It does become a habit. When my dc forget, I remind them, "All I need to hear is 'yes, mom' ".

 

In our home, when we first did this, I had to make sure my dc knew I wasn't joking. I told them ahead of time if they didn't pick up toys when I asked them to, I would throw those toys away. Sure enough, they tested me. And sure enough, I threw that toy away. Thankfully, it was an old, broken toy, but it made a lasting impression.

 

In a few days, I would tackle her being by herself. Start with 5 minutes of her being alone for a couple of days. Give her a timer so she can see it's not that long. Then go up to 10-15 minutes. My 6yo dc could easily spend an hour playing and or reading in their rooms.

 

I've had to tell my son that my ears are full. The talking..oh, my! It's ok to have a quiet period in the house, really. If she were in school or church, she would be quiet.

 

When we had one child irritating a sibling, that child lost the freedom to be around a sibling until I *knew* there would be no more purposeful irritating. It was difficult for me, but it worked. A child cannot have freedoms if that child is too irresponsible to handle that freedom.

 

This is tough, don't kid yourself! :) I have to keep reminding myself that one of my goals is to make sure my dc are enjoyable to be around. If *I* can't stand being around them because of their behaviors or attitudes, no one else will want to be around them, either. Then it's a failure on my part if I've never taught them how to behave.

 

Stay strong, be consistent, keep the goal in mind!

 

hth,

Aggie

[chaik76]

How do you do that? How do I decide when a behavior is bad enough to punish her for it? Did you have to start out carrying her to her room b/c she would refuse to go? Guard the door b/c she will refuse to stay? What do you do with the toddler while disciplining the older child? What about all the crying and screaming she does in her room.

 

Thank you Karen, for responding. I really am looking for answers. Alana, I will look into that book as well.

 

P.S. see my other thread... she really kicked it up a notch this week:

6 year old + toddler = banging my head

My son can be like this. We pick him up and move him to his room. He comes out. We take him to his room. He comes out. We take him to his room...until he stays (actually, in the last few months he has gotten to the point where he will go when we say). You have to be really consistent. 100% of the time...or it won't work. We ignore the screaming. He may not come out until he has completely calmed down and is able to interact with us normally.

 

I agree, it is totally frustrating. I. also does not like to be alone...but if he is picking up toys and wants me there when I cannot be...I just returned him to the room and left again. And honestly, it can take thousands of times of returning said child to whatever room they are supposed to be in before it sinks in. Again, you have to be 100% consistent if they are stubborn...

 

For the sleeping thing, we made a rule that I. may not come into our bed until 7am. Yep, this was hard also! If he tries to come in, we just return him to his bed (and again...yes, you will repeat this many, many times). He rarely tries anymore...and if he is scared, I will go and lay by him (for one minute). Every once in a while he still manages to sneak in and we are so asleep that we don't notice...but it happens much more rarely.

 

We correct for the things that are being done to irritate and annoy...I consider them to be bad behavior.

 

I. also thought it funny to be physically restrained, and I thought he would never clue into the fact that he must do what he was told. It took me never breaking down and giving in over a period of months for him to get over this...he no longer thinks it is funny (for the record we do not restrain in a way that would be physically harmful).

 

I noticed a huge difference in behavior between the ages of six and seven...he has gotten much better (he still has his days though!). A lot of this is because I had let him get away with too much when he was younger. Was the behavior really bad enough to discipline for? (I always asked myself). I found for I., that it was. Given an inch...he will take the whole world. He just needs complete structure and consistency.

 

Take this for what it's worth...these are just the things that have worked for ds...

 

(Sorry if this is disjointed...I really need to get to bed.)

 

ETA: Oh...as to disciplining and older child while still taking care of a toddler...for me I put the baby in a "safe spot" (somewhere he can't get into trouble). For us this means the crib, playpen, or the living room...which is gated. (Being able to get over the gate is a whole different story...). Then I start the discipline.

Edited September 28, 2008 by chaik76

[WTMCassandra]

My DD is much like this. I knew she had a touch of ADD, and I have made a lot of accommodations, while still requiring quality behavior, but in the last few years I have become aware that DD also has sensory issues. She is sensory-seeking, and if irritating behaviors will get attention when nothing else will, she will do them.

 

We still have huge issues with my two bickering if they have a spare 15 seconds! And we have been working on that for YEARS! And DD admits to often being the instigator.

 

So, you might want to consider reading The Out of Sync Child or other books about sensory issues to see if there might be a medical component. Not that you should let up on training and discipline--not at all.

 

I don't remember if it's The Out of Sync Child or another book, but there is a book whose main premise is that a child like this is after your intensity--feeds off of it. They recommend trying to catch them at being good and giving intensity for those things, not just mild "Good, honey"s for good things and intensity for bad things. This is very tough for me as an introvert. My DD feels draining because she is literally draining my energy--she is seeking intensity and stimulation ALL. THE. TIME. I still sometimes resent that this is who she is. I'm working on it.

[Alana in Canada]

I read your other thread. I hope you ae feeling better!

 

Yikes.

 

What are the consequences for her misbehaviour?

 

I need to do this myself--I yell much too much. It has no effect except to make her scream right back at me!

 

What I'm thinking of doing is coming up with a list of behaviours I will not tolerate: and working out the consequences--and writing them down.

 

For example; leaving the fridge door open.

 

Rule: She is not allowed to open it.

 

If she does, she is not allowed a choice for her snack--she gets what you chose to feed her, or nothing.

 

Another example, sitting on the couch too close to her brother and slapping his hand when he reaches for her snack.

 

Ask her to move away from your son. If she doesn't, take away the snack.

 

And what are the consquences for your son in this scenario? Why does he try to take her snack repeatedly?

 

At the risk of going all psychobabble on you, though, your daughter sounds like she has learned she can get your attention with naughtiness.

 

As she is fairly needy AND you've had the flu, AND her brother is fairly new on the scene (and has diverted your attention from her in the last year) I think she's "telling" you she needs you one on one. Is there any way you two can go to the park together for a 1/2 hour--or play a game while her brother is napping?

 

Discipline needs to happen in the context of a relationship--and though I know every impulse is to run--try and do "special" things with her, just the two of you this week.

 

(However, I did run away for a little this evening by myself for about two hours! It was called "doing errands." Dh understood.)

[Lovedtodeath]

I don't remember if it's The Out of Sync Child or another book, but there is a book whose main premise is that a child like this is after your intensity--feeds off of it. They recommend trying to catch them at being good and giving intensity for those things, not just mild "Good, honey"s for good things and intensity for bad things. This is very tough for me as an introvert. My DD feels draining because she is literally draining my energy--she is seeking intensity and stimulation ALL. THE. TIME.

I am an introvert as well. She does have sensory issues. So do I. Mine are usually the opposite of hers. So I guess it should be easy to figure out from that.:lol: I looked into it medically and it basically said that you need a specific sensory diet. Ugh! Really confusing. I will try smooshing her some though. I know she likes that. Intensity for good behavior. Of course. Makes sense. You know what else I thought of? She reacts with intensity on everything. Everything is screaming, OMG. Happy, sad, exciting, scary, hurt; she is the girl who cried wolf. All. The. Time. Maybe she expects that in return?

I still sometimes resent that this is who she is. I'm working on it.

Yes!! I am so glad you said this. I think why me? Why do I have the child that is my exact opposite? I am a low energy, quiet, introvert. I get overstimulated and melt down or shut down. And I have the loudest, in your face, obnoxious child there is!!! But I do love her so. Edited September 28, 2008 by Lovedtodeath

[Alana in Canada]

Thanks WTM Cassandra.

 

I may or may not have a daughter with this out of Sync. thing, but I will check into it, too.

[sagira]

:grouphug:

 

Thanks so much for sharing. I'm ashamed to admit my ds is exhausting as well. Look at me, look at me, loud, sometimes annoying, easily distractible, perpetually moving, and a poor listener (sigh). Will also ask me to repeat things ad infinitum, says "I get it" but then when I ask him he doesn't know :001_huh:

 

These first three weeks have been tougher than I expected. Some days I have great days, and the sun is shining. Other days, I'm just so frustrated. It doesn't help matters that I have an energetic, determined, cute-as-a-button 15-month-old dd running and climbing all over the place :willy_nilly: Yup, that's her :D

 

She's also been sick to boot this last week. Sorry to vent, but your post struck a chord with me and just know you're not alone, my friend :grouphug:

[WTMCassandra]

II think why me? Why do I have the child that is my exact opposite? I am a low energy, quiet, introvert. I get overstimulated and melt down or shut down. And I have the loudest, in your face, obnoxious child there is!!! But I do love her so.

 

Yup, yup, yup, me too. I SO feel your pain. Although mine isn't quite the loud, in your face type as she is the chatterbox, verbal diarrhea, ever-popping-up type.

 

My DD takes after my DH, whom I guess I was attracted to because he was my opposite *big sigh.* Little did I know . . .:001_huh:

[WTMCassandra]

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Some days I just wish it was the ADD parent at home with the ADD child all of the time, not the introvert parent! But I guess she needs my calm and stability, if I can muster it!

[WTMCassandra]

IShe reacts with intensity on everything. Everything is screaming, OMG. Happy, sad, exciting, scary, hurt; she is the girl who cried wolf. All. The. Time. Maybe she expects that in return?

 

 

Oh, and to answer your question, yes, I bet that is exactly what she expects.:tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie:

 

When I try to reply with intensity, it usually feels incredibly fake. I. Hate. It.

 

But I need to start trying again.

 

Also, we recently started occupational therapy. I'm hoping it will give her some outlets.

[sagira]

Not to highjack the thread, but just curious: How many children do you have, Aggie? I just noticed everyone else had two kids, including myself. Is this a two-kid thing or large families experience this too? :bigear:

[LizzyBee]

My 7 yo sounds a lot like your dd and she has severe auditory processing disorder. Her ears hear everything we say, but her brain doesn't. It's also been suggested to me by more than one person that she has sensory issues, but she hasn't been dx'd (yet). I explain limits, I explain my need to complete a task without interruption, I explain her introverted sister's need for alone time, and I give her suggestions for things she can do by herself and then get her started on an activity. I like the timer idea and that's something our audiologist suggested we try. I don't (and wouldn't even consider) punish her for her extreme need to talk and be with people; that's a biological need not manipulation. For refusing to stop when told to stop, yes, I would punish for that if I was certain she understood what I said. With my 7 yo, if I fail to get her attention first, she doesn't comprehend what I've told her to do (or stop doing).

[Country Mouse]

I don't remember if it's The Out of Sync Child or another book, but there is a book whose main premise is that a child like this is after your intensity--feeds off of it. They recommend trying to catch them at being good and giving intensity for those things, not just mild "Good, honey"s for good things and intensity for bad things.

I think the book you mean is Transforming the Difficult Child: The Nurtured Heart Approach by Howard Glasser. I have this book and it works wonders. It is not easy to implement but when dh and I follow the approach we see a really marked improvement in ds behavior. Ds is also a very intense child.

[Lovedtodeath]

I read your other thread. I hope you ae feeling better!

 

Yikes.

 

What are the consequences for her misbehaviour?

 

I need to do this myself--I yell much too much. It has no effect except to make her scream right back at me!

 

What I'm thinking of doing is coming up with a list of behaviours I will not tolerate: and working out the consequences--and writing them down.

 

For example; leaving the fridge door open.

 

Rule: She is not allowed to open it.

 

If she does, she is not allowed a choice for her snack--she gets what you chose to feed her, or nothing.

 

Another example, sitting on the couch too close to her brother and slapping his hand when he reaches for her snack.

 

Ask her to move away from your son. If she doesn't, take away the snack.

 

And what are the consquences for your son in this scenario? Why does he try to take her snack repeatedly?

 

At the risk of going all psychobabble on you, though, your daughter sounds like she has learned she can get your attention with naughtiness.

 

As she is fairly needy AND you've had the flu, AND her brother is fairly new on the scene (and has diverted your attention from her in the last year) I think she's "telling" you she needs you one on one. Is there any way you two can go to the park together for a 1/2 hour--or play a game while her brother is napping?

 

Discipline needs to happen in the context of a relationship--and though I know every impulse is to run--try and do "special" things with her, just the two of you this week.

 

(However, I did run away for a little this evening by myself for about two hours! It was called "doing errands." Dh understood.)

 

This is what I need. Some direction. What consequences are acceptable?

 

I was thinking of setting up some boundaries and goals and if she meets them her reward is a board game. One for the morning and one for the afternoon. What do you think?

[RJH]

My DD is just like this, too. By the end of the day I am exhausted from parenting her. DH, DS, and I are all very quiet people. DD couldn't speak softly if her life depended on it.....seriously her "whisper" could wake the dead. I think if it wasn't for her, the three of us could go days without speaking. :lol: She keeps us all on our toes. As I'm typing this she is crawling on her brothers computer desk meowing at him LOUDLY. DS is telling her she's not a cat....her response= "MEOW!!"

[Alana in Canada]

her reward is a board game.

 

It's a great idea!

 

However, I'm a teeny bit concerned for two reasons:

1) it will be a long time before she earns her reward the way things are going and

2) you still need to re establish a good relationship with her while she's still struggling.

 

and have you defined what's good enough?

 

More than anything, right now, she needs immediate consequences for her misbehaviour.

 

Don't be afraid of being too harsh--if you are, you are, you can "correct" at any time. You haven't mentioned any consequences yet, so I'm not at all sure what to suggest.

 

What have you been considering?

 

As for what is acceptable--it depends on you and your family.

 

I second the idea another poster recommended that you first need to focus on first time obedience.

 

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

[Lovedtodeath]

I am considering time out sitting at the top of the stairs (she cannot/will not do her room alone). I am also considering she gets no choices as to what to watch on the TV.

[Lovedtodeath]

What do you think of this supplement?

[Alaska Mom]

This is what I need. Some direction. What consequences are acceptable?

 

I was thinking of setting up some boundaries and goals and if she meets them her reward is a board game. One for the morning and one for the afternoon. What do you think?

 

I saw both of your threads and first :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:! You sound so frustrated and my heart goes out to you. I have a non-stop talking 6 yo myself! I don't have the other issues you describe with her though.

 

First, a couple of MY favorite parenting books are by John Rosemond (someone recommended his web site which I've not looked at but his books are great), also Burton White (but I think he's mostly early stages like under 3, but still excellent), and Love & Logic is something I recently discovered and I think would help you alot also.

 

You said she will not sleep by herself, does she sleep with you? The above authors will tell you that the "attachment parenting", "family bed", "co-sleeping" theories, etc. can create problems like what you've described (I said CAN there, not WILL, so if someone is reading this who disagrees, fine, don't blast me here). The first advice these authors would give is separate her from YOUR bed or sleeping with her. For some reason, sleeping with children often gives them the sense that they are on par with you, and they are not, they are our children, not our equals. Rosemond's & White's theory is, we separate at birth for a reason, and the more we do to "hinder" the natural process of separation and preparing them for their life as an "individual", the more difficult the situation will become to the parent.

 

Second, you said you need to set boundaries - absolutely! She is very accustomed to being in charge of YOU. I would stop that immediately. I try not to use rewards, although it's hard not to. I would use consequences, and never threaten. Tell her what your expectation is, and what the consequence is, then WAIT, don't threaten. If she doesn't comply, you then enforce the consequence. Example: "you will not hurt your brother, if you do you will spend 10 minutes in your bedroom, I will set the kitchen timer, when it goes off you can come out, if you come out before the timer goes off, I'm going to reset it". I might take you several hours to go through it the first time, but it will work. You MUST not cave in on a consequence, you must enforce what you tell her your going to do. My dc are not really attached to material things, so taking toys or things away doesn't usually work, but taking away a favorite activity, or sending them to their room does work. With ds3 I actually have to stand at the door and hold the door until he calms down.

 

Third, on chatter! I'm with you on this one! When I reach the point where I've had enough of dd's "chatter", I simply tell her, "enough", "this is mommy's time time to do whatever, you need to go play or find something of your own to do". It takes constant reminding, but it works to give me space. I'll add, that in my opinion it's not healthy for HER to not have that space. For us, my two are close buddies who will rarely fight or hurt each other intentionally, so I'm fortunate they will go off and play together and give me space. I think if you can "detach" yourself a bit from her, you may find they play well together when you no longer an ever-available option for her. The fighting is probably just an attention getting tactic.

 

Just my thoughts, hope this gives you some help! Good luck!

Edited September 28, 2008 by Alaska Mom

[Alaska Mom]

I'm going to add that I agree also with Alana In Canada's post that she me be needing one-on-one time. I think you need to analyze that as a possiblity. My first take on your post was "overindulged" which is my position taken in my prior post, but if that's not the case, then I'd look at her not getting enough of your full attention.

[Alana in Canada]

Example: "you will not hurt your brother, if you do you will spend 30 minutes in your bedroom, I will set the kitchen timer, when it goes off you can come out, if you come out before the timer goes off, I'm going to reset it".

 

In your case, I think 10 minutes at the top of the stairs is a great beginning!

 

For the sleeping thing, one thing which worked really well for our dd was a promise of a sleep over. I'd intended for her to go to her grandmother's, but before I could arrange it, a friend invited her over!

 

We set the rule at two continuous weeks. Every night (or early morning) she came into our room, we "reset" the two week period. In this case, the promise of a reward worked really well--dh and I were incapable of getting up and returning her to her room in the middle of the night, unfortunately.

 

However.

 

Make a list of the behaviours which need immediate correction. (Anything related to safety or her little brother, for example.) Choose that thing and come up with an enforceable, workable consequence. (I can just imagine trying 30 minutes in her room. You'd be hanging on to that door knob every day for a week!)

 

Be consistent with it--even if it means something similiar to "hanging on to a doorknob for a week" and once you've made some progress with that, choose the next thing and so on.

 

You are both learning a new way to deal with each other--give yourselves time! Oh--and because no one has mentioned it yet, let me prepare you by saying once you start, her resistence will strengthen. Townsend and Cloud give a great illustration of this with the faulty pop machine. You expect it to give you want you want. When it doesn't, you kick it. Then you shake it. Then you may bang on it....Children are just like that. Be firm. Be the unyielding pop machine.

 

After every discipline session, give her a great big hug.

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm going to add that I agree also with Alana In Canada's post that she me be needing one-on-one time.

That is a possibility as far as this week goes... but most of this behavior is constant and the more attention she gets the more she takes. When things are normal, we do something special with her and it seems to make her worse.

[Vida Winter]

I just read (for the second time) "Siblings Without Rivalry" - link here:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Siblings-Without-Rivalry-Children-Together/dp/0380799006

 

I can't tell you how much good information this book contains. I am not only an introvert but an only child who had no frame of reference for sibling relationships. My dd's have all been my opposites, thus my life has been insane for the past 13+ years.

 

Please read this book. Most libraries have it or can get it on interlibrary loan.

 

:grouphug:

Dana

[Aggie]

Not to highjack the thread, but just curious: How many children do you have, Aggie? I just noticed everyone else had two kids, including myself. Is this a two-kid thing or large families experience this too? :bigear:

 

We have 3, but the 2 dds are close in age, and there is a 4yr gap between younger dd and ds. :)

 

Aggie

[Rosie_0801]

I notice you're learning ASL. Suppose, when she asks you to repeat yourself, you give her a second chance in English, then switch to ASL. I don't know how much you know, but I'm sure she'll give it up if you use the "Rochester Method" and fingerspell your entire answer at her. Fingerspelling fluency is very important, you know.

:D

Rosie

[Garga]

http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com

 

This is the website that people talked about in your other thread, about the tomato staking. I haven't read all the posts on this thread yet, so don't know if someone already gave it to you.

 

I don't follow everything on the tomato website, but there is a ton of good advice. It helped me to feel empowered to stop the bad behavior that wasn't exactly "bad" just reeeeally irritating.

 

If the behavior is something you wouldn't expect from an adult, then it needs to be stopped, even if it's not "bad" but just irritating. I won't write here all the techniques. It's all on the website.

[Lovedtodeath]

I don't follow everything on the tomato website, but there is a ton of good advice. It helped me to feel empowered to stop the bad behavior that wasn't exactly "bad" just reeeeally irritating.

 

Thank you. That explanation sounds like something I could use. I also have Raising a Thinking Child, but I put it away after only three days. I think I should get it back out. If anything is added to our curriculum, I feel overwhelmed. We pretty much stick to 3 subjects a day.

[Lovedtodeath]

Update: We are cutting out sugar. She says that she gets so hungry she feels like she is going to throw up. That set off bells in my head-- reactive hypoglycemia. Reactive hypoglycemia can be caused by or in addition to adrenal problems, so we will probably look into that next time she goes to the N.D. (DH hates spending on doctors, so it could be a while). So here is the plan:

 

1. No sugar.

2. Mom catches her before she runs me over (big problem here, I am slow).

3. Time-outs at the top of stairs

4. No more school with Jake awake in the morning. Mom gets to stressed.

5. Enthusiasm (intensity) coming from Mom and Dad for good things, or just anything really... that she is excited about so she gets intensity without getting in trouble.

6. Playing board games as soon as Jake is asleep and after a week it becomes a reward that can be lost.

7. I forgot this one-- smooshing and wrestling to fulfill the need for intense physical contact.

8. Re-establishing Raising a Thinking Child as a curriculum.

9. Last resort... the ADD supplement that I found.

 

I am also getting Transfer Factor (from colostrum) for myself along with Carotenoids (alpha lipoic acid). This has helped my energy levels in the past. I had switched to something else, but had to stop taking it b/c of Jake's allergies (b-feeding).

 

There you have it! Did I forget anything?? What do ya'll think?

Edited September 29, 2008 by Lovedtodeath

[WTMCassandra]

Yes, this is the book. Thanks!

[WTMCassandra]

Sounds like a plan! It's nice to have a game plan, isn't it? Let us know how it goes.

[Lovedtodeath]

Hello all! I am currently reading Raising Godly Tomatoes and I have Boundaries and the Dr. Sears book on order from Paperbackswap.com. Here is my new social group, come join me! http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/group.php?groupid=57

[Alana in Canada]

Well done!

[klmama]

Your plan looks good. Also, in addition to cutting out sugar, add in protein! First thing in the a.m. before she gets juice, toast, or anything that breaks down into sugars. A few bites of meat, an egg, some peanut butter on a spoon. It helps a lot. Same for snacks - protein first. My intense dc get tired of me telling them "protein first," but they know it and they are starting to remember on their own.

 

Could it be possible that this child has any allergies/sensitivities you haven't discovered yet? I know when your plate is already full (or empty!) because of allergens, it's hard to consider more, but it's possible. You might try keeping a log of what she eats to see if there's any connection to her behavior.

 

I noticed a couple of things about the liquid vitamins you were looking at. There isn't anything in there that raises any red flags for me, but a couple of things might be better separately. For example, the Omega 3/6/9 doesn't say how much DHA and EPA it includes. If focus is an issue, you want a lot! Cod liver oil is a great source - Nordic Naturals has the highest amounts of those, but Carlson's is also good. Also, the tyrosine is great for focus, but it is absorbed and utilized better when taken on an empty stomach.

 

I hope you figure this out!

[cillakat]

_Understanding Girls with ADHD_

and

_Explosive Child_ should be at the top of your list.

 

Remember she *doesn't* do it *to irritate* you. Children want to do well. They do well when they can. She can't. So she's doing what she can.

 

Reactive hypoglycemia.....adrenal stuff: b5, lots of vitamin c....

 

protein at every meal. 1g per pound of her body weight.

 

Read _Depression Free Naturally_ by Joan Matthews Larson. Clearly it's not depression:) but this book covers *everything* incl hypoglycemia in detail.

 

Have her ped check her 25(OH)D levels asap. She's likely low (don't accept anything lower than 50 ng/mL....ignore lab norms)

 

It's likely that mostly EPA, some DHA and very little GLA are needed.....don't take a 'balanced' supplement but EPA/DHA in a 2:1 (or thereabouts), with some GLA added in.

 

Zinc.....almost certainly she's not getting enough for her *individual* needs. Some of us need a suprising amount. I test my zinc regularly and need 45 mg/day to maintain my mood stability. Taste perception of zinc in solution is a very accurate measure of zinc status...blood tests are not.

 

Iron....have the ped pull a cbc when you ask for D.....ferritin, hgb, hct, serum iron etc.....

 

No supplements at all for 48h prior to the test (no iron supps, no zinc, no fish oil, no D supps or foods).....you want the cleanest results possible.

 

There is much much more.....dd and I both take b6, p5p (a form of b6), looooots of inositol, more magnesium than is typical, sufficient calcium, sufficient potassium (which is a lot of potassium). Think of calcium as the contractor and magnesium as the relaxer... think of sodium as the contractor and potassium as the relaxer.....critical distinctions. let's see.....sufficient amounts of all b vites, minerals etc.

 

that's it in a nutshell....the reading suggestions will give you a ton of info.

 

Oh, and do consider a psychoeducational battery if you think it would be helpful....and if the results indicate ADHD, consider that meds may help her be successful. I'm so glad we finally started working on finding doable meds after so many years of my dd struggling in all areas. She's succeeding now! It's still tough, but she has success where she used to have none.

 

All the best to you.

[cillakat]

_Understanding Girls with ADHD_

and

_Explosive Child_ should be at the top of your list.

 

Remember she *doesn't* do it *to irritate* you. Children want to do well. They do well when they can. She can't. So she's doing what she can.

 

Reactive hypoglycemia.....adrenal stuff: b5, lots of vitamin c....

 

protein at every meal. 1g per pound of her body weight total for the day.

 

Read _Depression Free Naturally_ by Joan Matthews Larson. Clearly it's not depression:) but this book covers *everything* incl hypoglycemia in detail.

 

Have her ped check her 25(OH)D levels asap. She's likely low (don't accept anything lower than 50 ng/mL....ignore lab norms)

 

It's likely that mostly EPA, some DHA and very little GLA are needed.....don't take a 'balanced' supplement but EPA/DHA in a 2:1 (or thereabouts), with some GLA added in.

 

Zinc.....almost certainly she's not getting enough for her *individual* needs. Some of us need a suprising amount. I test my zinc regularly and need 45 mg/day to maintain my mood stability. Taste perception of zinc in solution is a very accurate measure of zinc status...blood tests are not.

 

Iron....have the ped pull a cbc when you ask for D.....ferritin, hgb, hct, serum iron etc.....

 

No supplements at all for 48h prior to the test (no iron supps, no zinc, no fish oil, no D supps or foods).....you want the cleanest results possible.

 

There is much much more.....dd and I both take b6, p5p (a form of b6), looooots of inositol, more magnesium than is typical, sufficient calcium, sufficient potassium (which is a lot of potassium). Think of calcium as the contractor and magnesium as the relaxer... think of sodium as the contractor and potassium as the relaxer.....critical distinctions. let's see.....sufficient amounts of all b vites, minerals etc.

 

that's it in a nutshell....the reading suggestions will give you a ton of info.

 

Oh, and do consider a psychoeducational battery if you think it would be helpful....and if the results indicate ADHD, consider that meds may help her be successful. I'm so glad we finally started working on finding doable meds after so many years of my dd struggling in all areas. She's succeeding now! It's still tough, but she has success where she used to have none.

 

All the best to you.

[KJB]

If I were in your shoes, I'd plan each day for a quiet time. I'd send my daughter to her room with a stack of books or quiet play material and tell her she's going to stay there for an hour (or two!) and play quietly.

 

I'd make it a daily ritual. I'd insist she stay there until she's called and that she play alone quietly. If she whines, screams, cries, whatever she does it alone in her room for the specified time.

 

Don't back down. Don't change your mind. Don't acknowledge her complaints. Just do it. If she cries, her door is closed. If she's quiet and respectful she may keep her door open.

 

I would not reward her with a game or anything else for this quiet time. She needs to learn that part of being human is learning to spend time alone taking care of herself. Hopefully, an hour or two a day will teach her to spend some time alone other times by choice.

 

Stand firm. Don't let her run the show. If she wails about how scared she is or whatever, I'd tell her you are confident she'll be fine. And of course, she will be fine. She just needs to know you aren't going to acknowledge or validate her unwarranted "fear" since it really is just a way to manipulate you.

 

Good luck!

Edited October 21, 2008 by KJB

[threetreasurs]

Taking away tv/computer/stuff like can work.

 

Also using whatever the kid likes to do with you as a reward - such as - we can bake cookies together this afternoon if you play quietly while your brother takes his nap today.

 

The best advice I received (perhaps this is from Charlotte Mason) is to work on one thing at a time. Make a list of the top five things that drive you nuts then pick one behavior. Work on it for a week or two then add in the next. Over tiime, this does lead to huge improvement!

[Twinmom]

I skipped directly to the end of the thread, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned! Your DD sounds EXACTLY like my DD, who has been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. We went through such similar struggles that your post really resonated with me! I could go on and on about all that she'd do, but I won't waste your time since you can look at your DD and see the same thing! ;) If she's like my DD...it looks like manipulation, looks like a control thing, looks like she's trying to bug you to death...she's really scared, anxious and can't control her emotional responses, so she'll control behaviors of others (most often YOU!) instead. She really can't help it...not on purpose, not her fault, not my fault as a disciplinarian. It's a physical problem. I tried nutrition, tried Love and Logic (which I'm pretty darn good at, btw!), tried lots of other things. Nothing really worked until we addressed this from an anxiety perspective and started thinking completely differently about her.

 

In any case, after years of trial and error, frustrations and some successes, we finally got this thing figured out! For DD, she basically has a correctable chemical imbalance that gives her too much "fight or flight" hormones, which triggers anxiety in situations that shouldn't cause it (like, mom getting up to go get a drink! :001_huh:). A low dose of an SSRI (anti-depressant with anxiety component) has made a tremendous difference for her! She's able to control her physical response, so she's able to stop the panicky feeling and listen to me when I try to help her. Combining that with counseling to help her (and us!) learn self-calming skills and new ways of handling social situations, and we've got a new kid on our hands. It's amazing!

 

Her counselor and doctor say that she'll be just fine within a year or two and will likely no longer need the medication at all. She'll learn to compensate socially and her brain chemistry will readjust itself to function normally without medication. It's been such a relief to see her feel so much better!

 

Anyway, just wanted to throw this out there in case it resonates for you. If it does and I can help you in any way, feel free to PM me.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Twinmom