Hypothetical Question about spouse having an affair

[ktgrok]

I agree with this, and more. I waited until my xh was out of the house and the divorce was filed (but not finalized) before dating. But even that was not enough time to process the marriage, transition to not being married after 14 years, support and guide the kids, rebuild identity and work on me (and why/how I ignored signs that would have lead me to not marry him to begin with.)

 

My biggest role in the demise of marriage # 2 was getting into it in the first place. It was too soon. I know believe that people need A LOT of time and often professional or trained help in exiting serious relationships before they are able to make good choices about the next.

 

If I had a do-over, I'd date (various men, and nothing serious) when xh had the kids until the kids were launched.

 

I was going to argue that it isn't like that for everyone until I got to the part about professional help. I do think the reason I was able to "move on" sooner than I'd expected was that I'd already had 2 plus years of therapy before leaving my ex. I'd worked on my own issues, learned to recognize issues that were not my fault, and knew what I wanted and didn't want. All before ever leaving. Then I stayed in counseling for a while after leaving, to help which transition and help my son with his transition. I also had a lot of family support and support from good friends. I think that scenario is probably not typical. 

[Joanne]

I was going to argue that it isn't like that for everyone until I got to the part about professional help. I do think the reason I was able to "move on" sooner than I'd expected was that I'd already had 2 plus years of therapy before leaving my ex. I'd worked on my own issues, learned to recognize issues that were not my fault, and knew what I wanted and didn't want. All before ever leaving. Then I stayed in counseling for a while after leaving, to help which transition and help my son with his transition. I also had a lot of family support and support from good friends. I think that scenario is probably not typical. 

 

 

I did that, too. I said (at the time of dating and remarrying) that I had done my work and processed the marriage while still "technically" married. I, too, stayed in counseling. The kids and I attended a divorce support program from beginning to end. I had tremendous in person and even some online support.

 

And I still wasn't ready. People *here* said so. It turns out (for me, obviously) that I was ready to leave the marriage but not ready to make good choices regarding a new relationship.

[ktgrok]

I did that, too. I said (at the time of dating and remarrying) that I had done my work and processed the marriage while still "technically" married. I, too, stayed in counseling. The kids and I attended a divorce support program from beginning to end. I had tremendous in person and even some online support.

 

And I still wasn't ready. People *here* said so. It turns out (for me, obviously) that I was ready to leave the marriage but not ready to make good choices regarding a new relationship.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't realize. I wonder what it would have taken, short of going through another bad marriage, to really be ready? (not being snarky...really wondering.)  

 

I wonder if I just lucked out? Or if my bad relationship with my ex was a fluke? My issue was codpendence/enabling. I thought I was "saving someone" by helping him. Maybe the therapy helped, maybe it was something else. I think the biggest thing was realizing what I'd done. Which oddly, happened all at once while watching television. I was watching my favorite show at the time, Dark Angel I think it was called. And there was a character on the show who was paralyzed, in a wheelchair, and totally emotionally unavailable and fairly self hating. And I was totally attracted to him. And then one day I realized, OH MY GOD! He's about the worst choice of a mate EVER and I'm all google eyed over him! What on earth is WRONG with me? And I swear, after that eureka moment I just never went there again. I know that sounds stupid but I swear that show, and that moment, cured me of my need to save someone. 

[Crimson Wife]

 

And I think that's just awful! I have heard of that and yeah, no way. If I meet a guy still living with his ex, I'm going to assume its NOT an ex! When people break up they by and large don't keep living together. That's kind of a big clue!

 

During the recession, this was not that uncommon a situation if the split was amicable because the ex-spouses could not afford to sell the jointly owned house at a loss. I haven't heard about anyone doing it since the real estate market rebounded (and the ex-couples who had previously done it have all sold and no longer cohabit).

[OneStepAtATime]

By the way, OP, I was suggesting on another thread that maybe someone should start a private chat group for people needing to talk about similar situations without violating board rules or putting themselves at risk. It is easy to do.  You can make them unsearchable through the internet and the rules are a lot more flexible for what can be posted in the private chart rooms.  

[Carol in Cal.]

 And there was a character on the show who was paralyzed, in a wheelchair, and totally emotionally unavailable and fairly self hating. And I was totally attracted to him. And then one day I realized, OH MY GOD! He's about the worst choice of a mate EVER and I'm all google eyed over him! What on earth is WRONG with me? And I swear, after that eureka moment I just never went there again. I know that sounds stupid but I swear that show, and that moment, cured me of my need to save someone. 

I have had two similar experiences.

 

One was, I had this BF who would say, "I'm selfish" and I'd be all 'Awww, you poor thing with low self-esteem and humility, that is so cute!  And adorable!" and then I realized, no, he really IS selfish; to the point of being an absolute user and jerk.  Which pretty much cured me of the whole, 'She sees the hidden jewel, the diamond in the rough; what a great woman she is to bring out the best in him' thing.

 

And the other was that I used to always need stress to perform well.  My papers were boring unless I was actively feeling panicky over a deadline when I wrote them, for instance.  I learned to associate that prickly andrenaline rush with being able to think clearly, organize quickly, and do a great job.  I hated waiting around or working slowly and planning ahead beyond all reason.  And then once we almost missed a plane to our first trip to Hawaii because we went to the wrong terminal after arriving 'just in time' at the airport, and running to the next one with all our luggage, barely making our flight--it was so awful that I forever afterwards have associated that prickly andrenaline rush with misery, and have become the scary planning queen to avoid it.  

 

Conversion does happen, and sometimes it happens really, really fast.

[QueenCat]

Let us assume a couple is getting divorced. 

 

They have decided that the reasons for the dissolution of the marriage are to be share 50/50 between spouses so no one spouse is more of a "bad guy" than the other.

 

The couple is working towards the divorce by finding attorneys, etc., but the process takes time. In this time period they are still living together, still legally married, but are in full agreement that the marriage is over.

 

The husband starts a relationship with another person. They are sleeping together.

 

Is that "affair" partly the responsibility of the wife? As in, can everything that results from the marriage falling apart (ie, this affair) be attributed at least partly to the wife because she was partly responsible for the relationship being over, or does the husband own his actions completely on his own?

 

Just interested in hearing what people think .....

 

I would not consider the husband to be having an affair. They are already not a "couple" and in the process of divorce. No "bad guy" here. Assuming by living together, you mean "sharing a house" and "house responsibilities" but certainly not sleeping together. I'm assuming you mean the husband is sleeping with the new person when you say "they are sleeping together".

[Murphy101]

During the recession, this was not that uncommon a situation if the split was amicable because the ex-spouses could not afford to sell the jointly owned house at a loss. I haven't heard about anyone doing it since the real estate market rebounded (and the ex-couples who had previously done it have all sold and no longer cohabit).

I know someone who was court ordered in the divorce to let her ex (Who filed for divorce.) live in the basement of their home for several years.

[ktgrok]

 

Conversion does happen, and sometimes it happens really, really fast.

 

So it seems! I also had the luck of coming from a healthy family with no trauma to speak of, no addictions in the family, no abuse, etc. I do come from a long line of nurses though, so some of that caregiving may come from that, but otherwise I had no real deep seated issues...I just got into a relationship with a guy that was fun in the beginning, but we were long distance so I think he was more fun in my head than in real life. By the time it wasn't long distance anymore I felt like I had to stay because he was struggling and what kind of person leaves someone who is having issues? Only later did I realize he probably always had those issues, we just weren't together enough for me to notice. 

[TranquilMind]

Honestly, I think calling this an affair is a misnomer. The marriage is over. Personally in such a situation my preference would be to avoid another relationship until the marriage is legally over, but this new relationship is not a betrayal of the marriage. It's simply the next step after divorce. There is no issue of responsibility here at all, as there has been no betrayal. There is just the sad end of a marriage and the moving on to new, separate futures.

It is not over.

They are still married.

[TranquilMind]

I agree with this, and more. I waited until my xh was out of the house and the divorce was filed (but not finalized) before dating. But even that was not enough time to process the marriage, transition to not being married after 14 years, support and guide the kids, rebuild identity and work on me (and why/how I ignored signs that would have lead me to not marry him to begin with.)

 

My biggest role in the demise of marriage # 2 was getting into it in the first place. It was too soon. I know believe that people need A LOT of time and often professional or trained help in exiting serious relationships before they are able to make good choices about the next.

 

If I had a do-over, I'd date (various men, and nothing serious) when xh had the kids until the kids were launched.

Here is my non-scientific rule of thumb, which I found surprisingly accurate for me (and others) over the years:

 

The relationship takes twice as long to get over and to be fully extricated and free as it lasted.  By free, I mean you have moved to the point of, "What on earth was I thinking?".  Dated 1.5 years?  You will be free of it entirely by 3 years.  Just my observation. 

 

(Caveat:  This applies only to dating, not marriage - and I dated quite awhile and a lot, not marrying until nearly 30).

 

Just for fun, as you are the professional. 

Edited March 10, 2016 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

I have had two similar experiences.

 

One was, I had this BF who would say, "I'm selfish" and I'd be all 'Awww, you poor thing with low self-esteem and humility, that is so cute!  And adorable!" and then I realized, no, he really IS selfish; to the point of being an absolute user and jerk.  Which pretty much cured me of the whole, 'She sees the hidden jewel, the diamond in the rough; what a great woman she is to bring out the best in him' thing.

 

And the other was that I used to always need stress to perform well.  My papers were boring unless I was actively feeling panicky over a deadline when I wrote them, for instance.  I learned to associate that prickly andrenaline rush with being able to think clearly, organize quickly, and do a great job.  I hated waiting around or working slowly and planning ahead beyond all reason.  And then once we almost missed a plane to our first trip to Hawaii because we went to the wrong terminal after arriving 'just in time' at the airport, and running to the next one with all our luggage, barely making our flight--it was so awful that I forever afterwards have associated that prickly andrenaline rush with misery, and have become the scary planning queen to avoid it.  

 

Conversion does happen, and sometimes it happens really, really fast.

You are SO right. 

 

Was it Ann Landers who said, 'If someone tells you who he is, believe him."?

 

I had a so-called "best friend" who confessed she was a really selfish person.  And guess what...she was totally right.

 

I also dated a few guys over the years who told me who there were, and I got faster and faster at believing them. 

[Murphy101]

It is not over.

They are still married.

Yep. That's my view too.

 

A marriage doesn't become over just because the sentiment of it has changed.

 

That's just a bizarre concept to me.

 

That feelings about the marriage determine whether I am still married or "really married" or not.

 

So if she had a change of heart and felt that she doesn't want to file for divorce and he still does, or the reverse, is she still married but he isn't? Or is she remarrying him or what?

 

So if at some point I no longer feel loved or loving toward my husband - that absolves me of the duty to keep the vows I made for our marriage?

 

That's a bizarre and ambiguous notion of defining marriage to me.

[Seasider]

I hear what some of you are saying about the marriage being over because the marriage relationship is over.

 

I think the OP needs to be very careful to operate from the perspective of what constitutes marriage IN THE EYES OF THE COURT.

 

And it is past time to see a lawyer - before you move out of the house. If your discovery of his extramarital relationship has caused things to become tense, you can always suggest that he leave. I truly believe he is holding out for the house - I mean, why hasn't he moved in with his new squeeze? Is she married, too? Or is she waiting to move in with him? His not leaving at your suggestion might shed some light on his "homesteading" intentions.

[Spryte]

I hear what some of you are saying about the marriage being over because the marriage relationship is over.

 

I think the OP needs to be very careful to operate from the perspective of what constitutes marriage IN THE EYES OF THE COURT.

 

And it is past time to see a lawyer - before you move out of the house. If your discovery of his extramarital relationship has caused things to become tense, you can always suggest that he leave. I truly believe he is holding out for the house - I mean, why hasn't he moved in with his new squeeze? Is she married, too? Or is she waiting to move in with him? His not leaving at your suggestion might shed some light on his "homesteading" intentions.

This.